Date set for clearance of Tiger Temple

[BuckBee]

146 tigers :-O

This temple has been a blatant illegal wart for far too long.

A lot of illegal activity in restricted drugs, general animal & animal parts trading, money laundering & bribes, anyone being properly arrested !

Sums up thai Buddhism a treat though & thainess in general really, everything for sale for a $ , farm daughters, tigers, visas, police - all available for money .

[Saraphee]

When/if it happens it will be Good News indeed - and when they are all safely away and a proper programme for their well being introduced let's deal with similar exploitation - Tiger Kingdom Chiang Mai has never been anything other than a venue for commercial gain.

[Beng]

It's about time. It was going on for too long.

[Mcffee]

After the seizure, the tigers will become common property, which the state will have to feed and properly house.

With other words, within months they all will be sold to Chinese traders.

[German Viking]

Could be much better for the tigers in the long run although the comment "The state is looking for ways to lower these expenditures" before the tigers have even been moved could be cause for concern. If they are going to seize them I would like to hope that they would be cared for in a manner befitting this majestic species. Then again could just be wishful thinking... .

Stop dreaming there are only 2 options left, caused not any serious Zoo in this world would take 1 of these drugs addicted tigers. 1. kill the Tigers. 2. sell them for a high price to China/Tibet. Oh shit I almost forgot the 3. Option give them to some nice Zoo's like in Phuket.

Yeah not more to say, unfortunately. Actually I would like to see all these bastards, who a responsible for this desaster in prison.

[German Viking]

Here's an idea, now that you have no animals to care for, how about stray dogs that were rescued

from the cooking pots? there are many thousands of them looking for a good home,

and what home can be better than the pious people of a temple? no? not a good idea?

right... no money to be made there with dogs...

Man wake up with Stray dogs are no business to make.

[German Viking]

As I understand it the majority of the tigers at this temple are of the sub-species Bengal which are not indigenous to Thailand. The sub-species found here is the Inochinese tiger. How the temple came to be in possession of bengal tigers I don't know. As they are not indigenous no way could they be released into the wild, being raised in captivity they wouldn't survive anyway.

I just hope that they will be well cared for in an inviroment as close to their natural habitat as possible. Anything must be better than being chained to a concrete floor and drugged so that tourists can play with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger

Get a clue it does'nt matters bengal tigers or indochina tigers, you cannot adapt these tigers to the wild, caused the will catch the easiest prey, humans.

[German Viking]

It's about time. It was going on for too long.

This business would still going when the visitors would not had dropped significantly. A lot of ppl here making suggestions, without to having any idea what 146 tiger need everyday in food, this was the reason why this case appeared, not enough visitor means not enough income only to feeding the tigers.

[German Viking]

I have investigated how much a tiger eat in 1 day: female 30kg, male 35kg. I calculate only 146 x 30 = 4380kg/day, 365 x 4380 = 1,598,700kg/ year. Guys save all you foolish suggestions, there is only 1 solution left.

[HeijoshinCool]

I have investigated how much a tiger eat in 1 day: female 30kg, male 35kg. I calculate only 146 x 30 = 4380kg/day, 365 x 4380 = 1,598,700kg/ year. Guys save all you foolish suggestions, there is only 1 solution left.

.

More like half that, but you're right, there is only one solution:

200,000 monks in Thailand at an average of 65 kilos per monk, equals 1,300,000 kilos. Enough for the first year or two ...

[German Viking]

I have investigated how much a tiger eat in 1 day: female 30kg, male 35kg. I calculate only 146 x 30 = 4380kg/day, 365 x 4380 = 1,598,700kg/ year. Guys save all you foolish suggestions, there is only 1 solution left.

.

More like half that, but you're right, there is only one solution:

200,000 monks in Thailand at an average of 65 kilos per monk, equals 1,300,000 kilos. Enough for the first year or two ...

Ok, then there are 2 options left, as a german I have to be careful with some suggestions like you made it. Anyway I had calculated on tiger in the wild who have to move his ar$e to getting his food. I agree with you that a drugged tiger who only hang loose the entire day, probably only need only the half. I realized this starting greedyness of the monks about 15 years ago already, but nobody believed me. I guess with your suggestion, there would be not killed so many innocent monks, then I would say, they are just collateral demages, like G.W. Bush stated once, about the statistics that 90 % civil ppl getting killed in the Irak war.

[angiolo]

I think that these tigers will finish up in China with gorilla and rhino bits

[mike324]

offer them to zoos around the world that are capable of caring for them

[German Viking]

I think that these tigers will finish up in China with gorilla and rhino bits

This is unfortunately the only solution who making sence, and would in top cover also the costs, these tigers having produced already, since the wat can not take care of them anymore. It's really hard, but as long the money go 100% into the taxpot of Thailand, without any greedy bastard getting a cut, I can agree with, caused the other solution with the monks, would be also only temporary.

[German Viking]

offer them to zoos around the world that are capable of caring for them

Recommandation read all the post before and use your brain, I would hold a bet that Thailand tried this already and as you see, no positiv result until now.

[ThaiKneeTim]

I'd gladly contribute to sponsoring one of these cats as long as it doesn't become someone's money making scheme. You know, it could be a great school project to teach kids about wildlife conversation. A school raises funds and sponsors a tiger, a bear or some other animal. Funds raised could be used to not only support the cat but to create a live feed network where the students could view their sponsored cat online or any other animal. This would do three things... help pay for the cost of supporting the cats, encourage the students to appreciate wildlife, and a live feed would deter any ill treatment of the animals. Student's could vote on what to name their tiger... They could campaign and vote for their favorite name. A lesson on democracy as well. If this was handled correctly, it could be a fantastic opportunity.

All very sweet indeed!!

But the tigers should not be in captivity in the first place!!

Following your idea, the children will be taught, that wild animals are for our entertainment and/or teaching material.

Student's could vote on what to name their tiger... They could campaign and vote for their favorite name. A lesson on democracy as well. If this was handled correctly, it could be a fantastic opportunity.

Please tell us, you are joking.................

The problem is that they have already been kept in captivity, many from being orphaned cubs. They have had human contact and are probably beyond releasing into the wild, whatever species they may be! So, the idea of sponsorship isn't that bad after all, and I see no reason why the Thai authorities can't recoup some of their costs by selling some of the tigers to zooalogical societies worldwide for breeding programmes, especially the non indigenous Bengal tigers.

There are solutions to the problem, it's just a matter of finding what is best for the tigers in the long run, rather that pandering to greed and inhumane practices.

[ThaiKneeTim]

As I understand it the majority of the tigers at this temple are of the sub-species Bengal which are not indigenous to Thailand. The sub-species found here is the Inochinese tiger. How the temple came to be in possession of bengal tigers I don't know. As they are not indigenous no way could they be released into the wild, being raised in captivity they wouldn't survive anyway.

I just hope that they will be well cared for in an inviroment as close to their natural habitat as possible. Anything must be better than being chained to a concrete floor and drugged so that tourists can play with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger

Get a clue it does'nt matters bengal tigers or indochina tigers, you cannot adapt these tigers to the wild, caused the will catch the easiest prey, humans.

I think the problem with preditory animals used to being fed by humans is they turn up at some village expecting to be fed, and causing widespread panic, as the villagers are used to tigers wanting to eat *them*, rather than being fed by them. That said, I know that Lions have been released into the wild in Africa after being raised by humans.

[German Viking]

As I understand it the majority of the tigers at this temple are of the sub-species Bengal which are not indigenous to Thailand. The sub-species found here is the Inochinese tiger. How the temple came to be in possession of bengal tigers I don't know. As they are not indigenous no way could they be released into the wild, being raised in captivity they wouldn't survive anyway.

I just hope that they will be well cared for in an inviroment as close to their natural habitat as possible. Anything must be better than being chained to a concrete floor and drugged so that tourists can play with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger

Get a clue it does'nt matters bengal tigers or indochina tigers, you cannot adapt these tigers to the wild, caused the will catch the easiest prey, humans.

I think the problem with preditory animals used to being fed by humans is they turn up at some village expecting to be fed, and causing widespread panic, as the villagers are used to tigers wanting to eat *them*, rather than being fed by them. That said, I know that Lions have been released into the wild in Africa after being raised by humans.

The difference between these lions you talking about and these Tigers are, that the lions was not drugged, I guess. That makes the big difference, these Tigers only behaved nice, as long they were drugged, but if you release into the wild, then they will quick change their mind, when they are real hungry. In general are Tigers not lions they are more dangerous, caused of their character and in top the Bengal Tigers.

[ThaiKneeTim]

offer them to zoos around the world that are capable of caring for them

Recommandation read all the post before and use your brain, I would hold a bet that Thailand tried this already and as you see, no positiv result until now.

You KNOW this then, or are you taking a wild guess?

There are international regulations on the transporting of wild animals, especially an endangered species, so there will be a lot of rules to check out, and forms to be filled. There is an international body that approves zoological societies, so unapproved zoos cannot get hold of animals too easily, and a breeding programme exists to help prevent inbreeding. Remember the Norweigen giraffe that was euthanized? There was worldwide outcry, but it wasn't feasible to send it elsewhere because of inbreeding problems.

It takes time to arrange the best solution, and supplying the animal parts trade will not enter the list of solutions. Whatever you may think of Thailand, they have participated in blocking the illegal trade of ivory, so I have no reason to doubt that they will support other endangered species.

[taony]

offer them to zoos around the world that are capable of caring for them

Recommandation read all the post before and use your brain, I would hold a bet that Thailand tried this already and as you see, no positiv result until now.

I'm not sure you are using your brain . That sounds like a lot of effort. Too much for the local jokers to make. They've probably already been sold off to China. Easiest and most $$$. (Sorry i have no other currency choices on my phone )

[German Viking]

offer them to zoos around the world that are capable of caring for them

Recommandation read all the post before and use your brain, I would hold a bet that Thailand tried this already and as you see, no positiv result until now.

You KNOW this then, or are you taking a wild guess?

There are international regulations on the transporting of wild animals, especially an endangered species, so there will be a lot of rules to check out, and forms to be filled. There is an international body that approves zoological societies, so unapproved zoos cannot get hold of animals too easily, and a breeding programme exists to help prevent inbreeding. Remember the Norweigen giraffe that was euthanized? There was worldwide outcry, but it wasn't feasible to send it elsewhere because of inbreeding problems.

It takes time to arrange the best solution, and supplying the animal parts trade will not enter the list of solutions. Whatever you may think of Thailand, they have participated in blocking the illegal trade of ivory, so I have no reason to doubt that they will support other endangered species.

I beg your pardon, with all respect, you are a dreamer, better looking at my calculation what this 146 Tigers eating everyday.

[German Viking]

offer them to zoos around the world that are capable of caring for them

Recommandation read all the post before and use your brain, I would hold a bet that Thailand tried this already and as you see, no positiv result until now.

You KNOW this then, or are you taking a wild guess?

There are international regulations on the transporting of wild animals, especially an endangered species, so there will be a lot of rules to check out, and forms to be filled. There is an international body that approves zoological societies, so unapproved zoos cannot get hold of animals too easily, and a breeding programme exists to help prevent inbreeding. Remember the Norweigen giraffe that was euthanized? There was worldwide outcry, but it wasn't feasible to send it elsewhere because of inbreeding problems.

It takes time to arrange the best solution, and supplying the animal parts trade will not enter the list of solutions. Whatever you may think of Thailand, they have participated in blocking the illegal trade of ivory, so I have no reason to doubt that they will support other endangered species.

I meant to try to sell them to international Zoo's not 1 Zoo will taking 1 of these Tigers.

[German Viking]

offer them to zoos around the world that are capable of caring for them

Recommandation read all the post before and use your brain, I would hold a bet that Thailand tried this already and as you see, no positiv result until now.

I'm not sure you are using your brain . That sounds like a lot of effort. Too much for the local jokers to make. They've probably already been sold off to China. Easiest and most $$$. (Sorry i have no other currency choices on my phone )

If you had read all my posts carefully, while using your brain, then you would find out, that I said, the only buyer will be China/Tibet.

https://www.google.no/search?q=tibetan+clothing+tiger&biw=911&bih=422&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=rN4rVfz5JMrTaLSIgZgB&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgrc=P9uGpizR7x57sM%253A%3BaDjfEEn9cR2OyM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffactsanddetails.com%252Fmedia%252F2%252F20080228-5LitangFestival1_2005-SnowlandCuckooAssociation.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffactsanddetails.com%252Fchina%252Fcat6%252Fsub35%252Fitem213.html%3B238%3B304

[arunsakda]

The only way to ensure the future of wild tigers is to protect their habitat. Period. These attractions should all be banned.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cumgranosalum]

Initially the monks intent was good, saving orphaned tigers from death, but then they realised the revenue earning potential of the place and went commercial. Making money should not be the main objective of conservation, and they should at least have been encouraged to return many of the orphaned cubs to the wild when they reach adulthood.

What was started with good intent, and a lack of conservation knowledge, has evolved into a tourist attraction and revenue earner, instead of evolving into the foremost authority on tiger conservation and rehabilitation.

saving orphaned tigers from death" .... There is no evidence to support this. If you kill an adult female tiger then the cubs may be captured and sold ..... To the highest bidder. Who is to say the temple didn't see an opportunity?

[Sviss Geez]

Here's an idea, now that you have no animals to care for, how about stray dogs that were rescued

from the cooking pots? there are many thousands of them looking for a good home,

and what home can be better than the pious people of a temple? no? not a good idea?

right... no money to be made there with dogs...

Better to feed the dogs to the tigers, 2 problems solved.

[ThaiKneeTim]

Initially the monks intent was good, saving orphaned tigers from death, but then they realised the revenue earning potential of the place and went commercial. Making money should not be the main objective of conservation, and they should at least have been encouraged to return many of the orphaned cubs to the wild when they reach adulthood.

What was started with good intent, and a lack of conservation knowledge, has evolved into a tourist attraction and revenue earner, instead of evolving into the foremost authority on tiger conservation and rehabilitation.

saving orphaned tigers from death" .... There is no evidence to support this. If you kill an adult female tiger then the cubs may be captured and sold ..... To the highest bidder. Who is to say the temple didn't see an opportunity?

My understanding is that locals took the cubs to the temple, as they do with any animal they want to get rid of. I visited the tiger temple in 2007, they didn't have 146 tigers, and there were cubs that were too young to survive without a mother. What I did see was the beginning of the commercialisation, with new enclosures under construction.

As to claims of the tigers being druggged, where is the evidence for that? I saw docile tigers, but put that down to being raised by humans and being nocturnal in the heat of the day, all they wanted to do was sleep. Apart from one tiger, it was cooling in the water, and playing with a monk, just like a domestic cat would.

I agree whole heartedly that the place should now be closed, or turned over to conservationists for research and rehabilitation, with funding raised internationally through animal welfare charities, like the one that drew attention the the place, with the aid of Ricky Gervais.

I also fully understand that the Thai authorities don't want to be burdened with the cost of looking after the animals for too long, and I fully expect that the charity that raised attention had a plan in place before spurring the Thai aurorities into action. If you think the Thai attitude towards animals is bad, I suggest you travel a bit more and see how animals are held in low regard, except for use as food or currency in other countries. What the Thais have done should be applauded, not derided and used as an opportunity to find fault.

[German Viking]

Here's an idea, now that you have no animals to care for, how about stray dogs that were rescued

from the cooking pots? there are many thousands of them looking for a good home,

and what home can be better than the pious people of a temple? no? not a good idea?

right... no money to be made there with dogs...

Better to feed the dogs to the tigers, 2 problems solved.

1 rocket scientist more, problem with the tigers only temporary solved. Try it with simple a calculation Tigers will be still alive , when all the dogs are fed.

[German Viking]

Initially the monks intent was good, saving orphaned tigers from death, but then they realised the revenue earning potential of the place and went commercial. Making money should not be the main objective of conservation, and they should at least have been encouraged to return many of the orphaned cubs to the wild when they reach adulthood.

What was started with good intent, and a lack of conservation knowledge, has evolved into a tourist attraction and revenue earner, instead of evolving into the foremost authority on tiger conservation and rehabilitation.

saving orphaned tigers from death" .... There is no evidence to support this. If you kill an adult female tiger then the cubs may be captured and sold ..... To the highest bidder. Who is to say the temple didn't see an opportunity?

My understanding is that locals took the cubs to the temple, as they do with any animal they want to get rid of. I visited the tiger temple in 2007, they didn't have 146 tigers, and there were cubs that were too young to survive without a mother. What I did see was the beginning of the commercialisation, with new enclosures under construction.

As to claims of the tigers being druggged, where is the evidence for that? I saw docile tigers, but put that down to being raised by humans and being nocturnal in the heat of the day, all they wanted to do was sleep. Apart from one tiger, it was cooling in the water, and playing with a monk, just like a domestic cat would.

I agree whole heartedly that the place should now be closed, or turned over to conservationists for research and rehabilitation, with funding raised internationally through animal welfare charities, like the one that drew attention the the place, with the aid of Ricky Gervais.

I also fully understand that the Thai authorities don't want to be burdened with the cost of looking after the animals for too long, and I fully expect that the charity that raised attention had a plan in place before spurring the Thai aurorities into action. If you think the Thai attitude towards animals is bad, I suggest you travel a bit more and see how animals are held in low regard, except for use as food or currency in other countries. What the Thais have done should be applauded, not derided and used as an opportunity to find fault.

Now I really believe that you got to much sun.

[cumgranosalum]

Initially the monks intent was good, saving orphaned tigers from death, but then they realised the revenue earning potential of the place and went commercial. Making money should not be the main objective of conservation, and they should at least have been encouraged to return many of the orphaned cubs to the wild when they reach adulthood.

What was started with good intent, and a lack of conservation knowledge, has evolved into a tourist attraction and revenue earner, instead of evolving into the foremost authority on tiger conservation and rehabilitation.

saving orphaned tigers from death" .... There is no evidence to support this. If you kill an adult female tiger then the cubs may be captured and sold ..... To the highest bidder. Who is to say the temple didn't see an opportunity?

My understanding is that locals took the cubs to the temple, as they do with any animal they want to get rid of. I visited the tiger temple in 2007, they didn't have 146 tigers, and there were cubs that were too young to survive without a mother. What I did see was the beginning of the commercialisation, with new enclosures under construction.

As to claims of the tigers being druggged, where is the evidence for that? I saw docile tigers, but put that down to being raised by humans and being nocturnal in the heat of the day, all they wanted to do was sleep. Apart from one tiger, it was cooling in the water, and playing with a monk, just like a domestic cat would.

I agree whole heartedly that the place should now be closed, or turned over to conservationists for research and rehabilitation, with funding raised internationally through animal welfare charities, like the one that drew attention the the place, with the aid of Ricky Gervais.

I also fully understand that the Thai authorities don't want to be burdened with the cost of looking after the animals for too long, and I fully expect that the charity that raised attention had a plan in place before spurring the Thai aurorities into action. If you think the Thai attitude towards animals is bad, I suggest you travel a bit more and see how animals are held in low regard, except for use as food or currency in other countries. What the Thais have done should be applauded, not derided and used as an opportunity to find fault.

You have decided to raise several issues here, most odpf which have been dealt with elsewhere.

As for the first tigers at the temple.. I believe the first actually died...however the story you refers to us one from the monks and has nothing to support it.

It would be very naive to believe it IMO.

There have been allegations of illegal wildlife trading at the temple from the start which would also reinforce any allegations that the temple bought tigers from poachers...as an investment.

I would suggest you look at CWI report and others to see their opinions on the origins of the temple's stock of animals....and how apocryphal or not their spin on their origins may be.

"I visited the tiger temple in 2007, they didn't have 146 tigers, and there were cubs that were too young to survive without a mother"

You don't seem to realise what you were looking at.

The cubs were in all probability bred at the temple and had a "mother" who the monks were essentially using as a tiger cub producing machine. This of course often means that the mother is unable to suckle her young properly thus requiring them to be hand fed. They are of course a huge tourist draw and make a lit of money for the temple.

Edited April 17, 2015 by cumgranosalum