Maize and Rotational Crops

[joeuk1]

I am Still looking buy 3-tonnes maize can pick up 100km surin . November December would be a good time for me to have the maize .

[farmerjo]

Hi joeuk1,

Either not many growers around your area or you might have to describe what sort of quality your after.

[kickstart]

joeuk1

I would say by mid November, and almost certainly December ,most maize farmers will have harvested there crop and sold it ,You might find a farmer keeping his crop back a while ,hoping for a better price .

You have not said if it is grain ,which I think it is ,or corn still on the cob ,if it is grain ,not easy to find as most farmers do not have long term storage , ie bins ,to big a investment for a small amount of grain most ,sell it straight off the back of the combine ,normally the combine owner is usually a buyer as well ,as in our wayned.

I have seen a few farmers keeping back grain still on the cob ,again hoping for a better price ,but those cobs will have to be ,brought ,transported , then thrashed out ,at a cost, a mobile thrasher will have to work out his costs etc. most work on a per bag rate ,3 ton @90 kg /bag= 33 bags, he will want at least 90 Bart bag ,or 1 Bart / kg by the time you are done ,that is going to be expensive grain, not for getting the "extra's", ie Loaw Khow .

You best bet is to find a local buyer and buy it direct from him ,at a premium price of course .

[JungleBiker]

I came across this page that talks about 300 bushel/acre corn crops in the USA:

http://farmprogress.com/story-3-tips-higher-corn-yields-300-bushel-achievers-9-117249

I had to look up how many kg in a bushel and it's roughly 25kg (http://www.grains.org/buyingselling/conversion-factors) so that they're getting on for 3 tons/rai..!

If you google corn 300 bushels you'll find more info about how to achieve 300-bushel corn crops. Mind you, I think there may be some barriers to achieving the same in Thailand due it being closer to the equator (different climate, day lengths, etc) and perhaps related to genetics (plant breeding, varieties, etc).

[JungleBiker]

Hope I got my maths right in the above post! The caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.

[joeuk1]

Last year I went to a mill farmer brought the maize on the cob to the mill . It was put through a machine not bagged after but spewed onto the back of my Lorry . I bought 9 tonnes at 8.4 per kilo it was after rain season had finished as when I brought it home I left it outside on concrete road for weeks before bagging it into 30 kilo bags . This thai farmer was doing many different crops very nice guy that year he had 60 rai of corn that he sold yo the mill 9 tonnes of it to me. I don't have his number anymore as I lost the phone that had his contact details and I would prefer something nearer home that is why I have tried make contact on this forum... Thanx

[joeuk1]

On the above post I said I bought 9 tonnes of maize it was 5 tonnes lol . This year I I only want two or three tonnes ...Thanx

[farmerjo]

Surely someone around Surin is growing corn,ask a rice merchant.Quite often they deal in corn as well.

[farmerjo]

Righto,have managed to knock up a subsoiler,mole plough,deep ripper or whatever you call it.

KS will be happy i have taken his advice

A few questions about it.The land is still way to wet but was doing some trials.I can only get it to go in about 16 inches in wet ground and it still rides up and down presuming with the hard pan.I've tried a few different angles on the tyne but i can see a general angle it works best at.

Do i need to install some weights ie 200 litre drum of water on back of it to get it further in the ground and stay at depth?

Have tried 1st low and 2nd low speed with tractor but doesn't make any difference,the tractor doesn't grunt at all.

Rows are 1.5 metres apart so i dont run over the opened furrow.

Any advice appreciated.

[kickstart]

I was going to say the angel of the tine, try adjusting the top link ,which I think you have done.

But I think the main problem is the shape of the tine ,that shape you have is more of a cultivator tine , about 16 inches is all about it will go ,and for a general cultivator tine ,that is about the right depth .

The one I made has a sloping tine that is almost straight ,and it go's into the ground as far as I drop the hydraulic arms ,a lot of times to far for my little tractor to pull ,I did a lot of sub soiling in January and February when it was dry ,and the tine still went into the ground as far as I let it , and it did not ride up and down ,like you say ,have a look at my photo's, post # 216 for an idea , and Google cultivators ,try Ransoms ,for a compare and contrast ,and have a look at chisel ploughs ,the shape of the tine's

I never was very good at tractor hydraulics ,but the old Massey Ferguson tractors had a position and a draft control ,draft for going in the ground as far as it will go ,and position for more control of the depth ,I think I have got it right ,do the Fords 66,series have that ?is the hydraulic system adjustable ,in any way .

If you look at other photos ,you should not see any additional weight on the back ,and this time of year it should bury its self ,land being wet ,not on lot of use now ,no "shattering effect ",just making tram lines ,wait for the new year, but good for trying it out ,get it right, before you need it .

[farmerjo]

Thanks KS,

Yes the tractor has draft control,thinking about it now i must have a hydraulic problem.

I've done a bit of googling and as you say others dont have weights unless they are a tow behind model in which you have the weight of the frame and wheels to help

.

[farmerjo]

Thanks KS,

Yes the tractor has draft control,thinking about it now i must have a hydraulic problem.

I've done a bit of googling and as you say others dont have weights unless they are a tow behind model in which you have the weight of the frame and wheels to help

.

With a bit more mucking around i came to the conclusion there is something wrong with the draft,because i dont want to open a can of worms i've left the hydraulics alone.

Instead i took the weights off the front of the tractor and placed on the back.It now stays consistently in the ground 20 inches.

Its going to be a part time job straightening tynes,i've bent two already but its ready to go.

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

The photo is a subsoiler we made ,the frame is V shaped ,supposed to get a better pull on the subsoiler compared with an ordinary frame ,we made it and took it to a friends farm to try out ,his tractor was a Ford 6610 ,only 2 wheel drive ,hooked it all up ,found it would only go in the ground a foot ,the 4-5 people watching all said not enough weight ,so we added the square frame ,and used bags of soil as ballast .

When we tried it on my land ,with the weight it went in about 2 4 -28 inches , I would have liked it to go in at least another 6 inches ,the 2 wheeled tractor puled it with out a lot of wheel spin

The Maine problem ,that it would not go in the ground far, with the forward slopping blade.it should have gone in a fair way ,I am certain it was the foot ,wrong shape, that idea come from a FAO web site ,and the angle is to shallow I think it needs to be about 45 degrees ,like a cultivator tine , then I think it would have gone in the ground further,for now we are using the cultivator ,and some time ,when I get time I will get the angle grinder out and have another go .

Re Ford hydraulics, would a oil and filter change help ?.on my Hino I regulery change the engine oil ,but the back end not been done in 8 years ,opp's.

or, they is a valve stuck somewhere in the system.

Called in at one of our big maize buyers today ,some farmers are starting to harvest they crops ,only corn on the cob ,still to wet for a combine to harvest ,they moisture must be high ,and they will get docked for certain .

Price was 4.30 Bart/kg corn on the cob ,and 80 Bart a" Tang".a Thai bushel weighing 15 kg ,that is 5.3 Bart/kg , no one will not get over fat on that .

[wayned]

Corn's really looking good. We haven't had any rain for over a week but I think that there's enough moisture in the ground to finish it off nicely. I pulled a couple of cobs and they a filled out nicely. one last soaking would be best But.....!

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

RE hydraulics,it will be a job for around Feb/March when things are quiet as the cab will have to be lifted.

I had a case once before where the hydraulics actally locked down when seeding and it took ages to get them to release,since that day it never locked down again.I think the lid needs to come off and check for cylinder leakage,o-rings on the spools and relief valve.IE general overhaul,the function off lifting up and down works ok,although when in the fully raised postion and draft lever up it wants to jump intermittingly.I read about timing the hydraulics but not enough detail for me to do it.

Ford tractor mechanics used to be a dime a dozen here but they seem to have dissapeared unless i drag one 35kms from the nearest big town which i will probably have to do.

Another job is to try and find a spring works somewhere to harden and temper these tynes,the steel must be chinese with very little carbon as they bend like there made out of cardboard.I guess having no shear arrangement on the tyne doesn't help but one would think if the tynes lower enough in the ground it would lift the rock out,not just bend back and sideways.A bit annoying when you bend one and replace it and go 50 metres and bend another.Luck of the drawn as some last a long time.Will keep plugging away.

The price of corn is heading south rapidly,probably to be expected this time of year.

[farmerjo]

Corn's really looking good. We haven't had any rain for over a week but I think that there's enough moisture in the ground to finish it off nicely. I pulled a couple of cobs and they a filled out nicely. one last soaking would be best But.....!

staeks and corn 005.jpg

staeks and corn 006.jpg

Lovely size cobs Wayned.

[farmerjo]

@ KS

What size is your ripper mate (150mm x 25mm steel?) in the photo above.

Is it a bisalloy or just mild steel ?

My tractor is working a bit but not to bad but i'm getting some carnage with the tynes.

Got to go to town on wednesday and have to work out whether to try and find a bit of bisalloy plate or just go to a tractor shop and buy a piggy tail spring tyne like in your cultivator picture.(not sure if spring tyne will go in deep enough)

[kickstart]

Hi Jo

My tine is 128mm,5 inches x 20 mm 3/4 inches , just mild steel, I did think that the tine was to big ,one reason it would not go in the ground ,we do not have a big tractor ,so we used a Ford 6610 and a driver ,my thinking was the driver has never used a sub soiler before ,would try and use it like a 3 disc plough ,foot to the floor wheels spinning etc ,I would end up with a tine like yours ,well bent ,but as I said it would not go into the ground more than 2 foot ,no damage to the tine ,but again I do not have rocks under my soil ,just a very hard pan .

When I made my subsoiler making a tine that would not bend was at the top of my list ,most subsoilers have a more shallow tine , some thing like yours less drag to pull etc. . my frame was second hand steel from local scrap yards and recycling centres ,at one place I found a piece of blade steel ,from a pay loader bucket a bit chewed up been chopped with a gas axe ,I had a long look at it ,that would not bend in a hurry ,but looked a lot of work to get it in to tine shape.

What I have seen is flat leaf springs from a 10 wheel truck ,,if you got 2-3 of them welded them together ,they would work ,how you would drill a hole in one for mounting ,........or weld them to a piece of box section with holes in for mounting .

The problem of Harding steel has come up before ,Pidgin Jake said heat it to cherry red dip it in water ,do that a few times ,would make it harder ,but would it make the steel brittle ,liable to snap ,under load. I would have thought with all these well over loaded pickups and trucks ,they must be somewhere that can re furbish leaf springs ,and harden some steel for you.

A while ago I was talking to a local farmer, he grows some sugar cane ,we were talking about subsoiler ,he said about the problem of blade steel in LOS ,he did say some machinery dealers in Chonburi, sell imported steel ,for tines etc . a look at Google ,tractor dealers Chonburi .?

Can not see a pigtail spring working ,you would not get the shattering effect with them ,might even snap one off ,if it hits a rock ,have seen that happen with smaller spring tines ,that was in a frame with 10 others ,not a single tine .

Good luck .

[Allgeier]

I found a company around kalasin who build agritculture attatchment. This one is normaly part of a planter. But this legs are maybe usefull to use for a subsoiler.

Link from here

http://www.torthongs.com/%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9B%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C/

And connect the legs with the frame from the cassava attachment.

How mutch should a leg cost?

Allgeier

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

Talking to my neighbour to day ,use to be in the steel job, about finding steel suitable for tines ,he said in Thailand not easy to find ,what they is ,is all imported ,with the tax etc. ,making it expensive ,he did say about case hardening steel ,heat it up ,,using gas ,dip it in water ,but he said what I said ,could make it brittle, liable to snap .

So, I called in to our local steel stockist ,which is a branch of one of the biggest steel shops in the district ,I said do you have any hardened steel for blades ,they said no but they had this photo ,this is made of mild steel 1 1/2 inches, 37 mm, wide ,27 inches,690mm long ,you would have to add a point /blade for it to penetrate the soil .and add a plate at the top for mounting it to a frame ,I said how much ,they sell it by the kg, 50 Bart/kg ,that bugger must have weighed 40 kg .

This blade might be a bit over the top , ,but if you look at any sugar cain fertilizer drills, cum subsoilers the blades are almost cut from one piece of plate steel, I saw an old fertilizer /subsoiler tonight ,shaped like dog leg ,angling out then sloping back in, again cut from one piece of plate steel,if you could design a blade yourself ,make a pattern , a steel shop should be able to cut it out for you. I have seen plate steel in scrap yards ,recycling centres ,round here, they sell 2ed hand steel for 20/25 Bart/kg .

[farmerjo]

Thanks KS,

I'll do anything to stop twisting shanks.

I've paid a lot of baht for gypsum so i think to subsoil then apply gives the best possible outcome for a good start.

I'm heading into town tomorrow and know of a decent size steel shop to visit.

Have just taken a picture of your photo on my phone to show them.

My tractor has good power to weight ratio so something that size would just spin the wheels on the spot if it hit rock.

Its either that or i will be looking also for excavator dealer who may on the off chance sell ripper shanks for graders.

I would say the price is reasonable for that hunk of steel as i have damaged 8 of those tynes of mine and will be probably looking 300 to 500 baht a tyne just to straighten them so i can put them back on the box scraper.

If i cant find anything local i'll pm you.

.

Edited October 20, 2015 by farmerjo

[farmerjo]

I found a company around kalasin who build agritculture attatchment. This one is normaly part of a planter. But this legs are maybe usefull to use for a subsoiler.

Link from here

http://www.torthongs.com/%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9B%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C/

And connect the legs with the frame from the cassava attachment.

How mutch should a leg cost?

Allgeier

Hi Allgeier,

Thanks for the link.

I think the steel on those tynes would be no different to mine,ok in non rocky land but would twist up in harsh conditions.

I think the amount of bolts holding it to the frame would not shear before you bent the shank.

Price i don't know as mine came with my box scraper,will try to find out..

[Allgeier]

If you put this in a websearch

ไถดินดาน

There are some company who do thinks in this direction.

[farmerjo]

Just a quick update for those interested,went to town today.

Found a excavator shop and they had grader tynes but only 300mm long,they put me on to a machine shop down the road.

Walking to the fab shop i passed a large steel supplier but they only had 25mm thick mild steel in stock.

The fab shop people seemed a bit nervous with a farang coming in but talking ha-sip percent thai,a few photo's,bit of paper drawing and a quick call to speak to my wife it was all good.

I did a pattern up for them,the hardest part there was i forgot they work in centimetres and i did it in millimetres so had to redo the dimensions not to confuse them.(we used to laugh in eygpt as they worked in centimetres,we said only dressmakers use centimetres politely)

Anyway they managed to locate some S45C steel in Bangkok and it should be ready in 5-7 days time.

The pattern is simple just 50mm x 200mm x 700mm long except the foot is larger with a 30 degree angle to accomodate either an excavator tip or a flat hardened steel point.(problem with the excavator tooth is its 75mm wide so spacers would have to be used secure it tight)

Price,did some weight calculations on the net and works out to about 55 kilo's and price works out close to 105 baht a kilo for the S45C.

This should not bend.

Edited October 21, 2015 by farmerjo

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

Look forward to the photos ,hope 50mm wide ,is not to wide could be a lot of drag ,pulling it ,might not get the depth .

105 Bart /kg, can not complain for a piece of quality imported steel ,take off import tax ,would not be much more than Thai steel .

That price I quoted would have included a cutting price ,you would use a lot of gas cutting a piece of steel like that .

[farmerjo]

Hi FJ

Look forward to the photos ,hope 50mm wide ,is not to wide could be a lot of drag ,pulling it ,might not get the depth .

105 Bart /kg, can not complain for a piece of quality imported steel ,take off import tax ,would not be much more than Thai steel .

That price I quoted would have included a cutting price ,you would use a lot of gas cutting a piece of steel like that .

It will be borderline for sure with size v horsepower.

When i receive it,its the finished product cut to shape and holes drilled.

Price,steel plus transport plus finished product.Good or not i'm not sure.(well cheaper than straightening my old ones a few times)

But looking forward to getting it as the land should be ideal by then for subsoiling.

Will gets some pics when up and running.

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

Re. Bent tines.

If you look at my subsoiler and cultivator, the 3 point linkage. I brought the steel ,and a guy near me with a 25 ton hydraulic fly press bent the steel into the 3 point linkage, and he drilled the holes for the top link pins ,plus drilling holes for pins for the linkage arms ,each time 250 Bart .

I think you said your tines are mild steel ,I would say that the place were you brought your steel would have a fly press ,they should be able to straighten those tines ,would have said no more than 100 Bart each? ,might not be 100% straight ,but good enough to use on your box scraper .

When you get the subsoiler working ,and what you say about it being wet, I would put it away ,bring it out a bit after the new year ,would do more good then ,soil has dried out ,it would open out a treat .

[BSJ]

Tik and I didn't get to the local market with our waxy corn. The purple 111 doesn't taste any better than the creamy/yellowy coloured varieties. We gave a lot away to family. The last bag we ate ourselves with a bit of help from mar.

Corn for pig feed is the next goal. Maybe 10 rai if the water in the big dam stops leaking out. With the governments prediction for a drought next year we could end up in trouble.

Arh, quality steel in Thailand....whre do you get it? I bought some angle iron and square tube at Global House for the light bar on the tractor. The other day I drove through the uncles yard and clipped the light bar on a branch I couldn't see. The angle iron bracket on the bottom snapped like a Ritz cracker!

[farmerjo]

Had a look at my corn today and decided to slash it.If it wasn't a hybrid i would have kept some for seed.

Looked good in some areas but overall it was poor as an average and grass ready to set seed in it.

Having done that it will give me a chance to spread my gypsum before my steel turns up for the subsoiler and clean the harvester down properly.

Now to find some keen labourers before rice harvest starts.

[kickstart]

Pity you did not say a few days ago, if that crop was round here it would have been sold ,as a standing crop , cut and made in maize silage ,but I suspect your area is not a cow area , no one has the kit to do it .

Seen a lot of our local maize crops , sold as a standing crop ,and chopped into maize silage ,with the price being low some farmers will make more money ,selling they crop for silage ,than harvesting it and selling the ,corn on the cob/grain .

Picture of Mrs KS feeding some maize plants into the chipper/shredder,for silage , we only got 6 bags from our small patch of maize ,mixed with grass silage ,it will feed our beef cows for a few days ,will be using it soon ,rats love maize silage ,and they will soon find the bags ,we have 2 cats that live in the old cow shed ,where we keep the silage ,lets hope they earn they keep ,and not sleep for most of the day.