China

[Siam_superfly]

but there is money for new product launches in China, so thats where the advert dollar wants to go....hmmmm

I think the USA and Australia should boycott these games.....

Edited September 4, 2006 by Siam_superfly

[Thaiquila]

Why boycott them?

Because they are not an ideal democracy and their government has committed atrocities?

Who are we to judge?

I was also against boycotting the Russian games, but I think the world should have boycotted the Hitler games. A matter of degree I guess.

China is a very important country and by running an Olympics, yes they want to present alot of popular propoganda about their country, but they are also inviting the world to come there. I think this is a good thing.

Of course, I have lots of money invested in China.

Edited September 4, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Donz]

No boycotting, Why did you also pick USA to join australia??

[Siam_superfly]

Why boycott them?

Because they are not an ideal democracy and their government has committed atrocities?

Who are we to judge?

I was also against boycotting the Russian games, but I think the world should have boycotted the Hitler games. A matter of degree I guess.

China is a very important country and by running an Olympics, yes they want to present alot of popular propoganda about their country, but they are also inviting the world to come there. I think this is a good thing.

Of course, I have lots of money invested in China.

Because they are NOT a democracy.....they are just a regime who claim sovereignty over China.....

So u would boycott a games hosted by a right wing goverment, elected by the people ( weather wrong or right ), but u would take part in a games run by a regime who, behind the smiles, rule with an iron fist....and who WERE NOT elected by the people....

I guess that u also watch CNN and obtain ur world view through CNN's left wing reporting of world events....

Im sure the political prisoners, locked up in Chinese jail's for speaking their minds, would disagree with u on this one.....

Yes China is the factory of the world......but that will happen with or without the games...

[Siam_superfly]

No boycotting, Why did you also pick USA to join australia??

Donz......

Coz without these two great sporting nations.....the games would be weak....and the advertising money would dry up.....costing China.....

Why should we hand this regime a promotion card like this, so they can play it up as another great achievement.......would u let North Korea host a games ???......who do u think keeps that murderous regime afloat......

[Donz]

I dont have a problem with them.

Comparing North Korea to China is abit off.

There country they can do what they want. As long as there not threatning to go to war against anyone

[farangsay]

I dont have a problem with them.

Comparing North Korea to China is abit off.

There country they can do what they want. As long as there not threatning to go to war against anyone

Uh , Tibet - no , they've already done that

Uh , Taiwan - yes , they haven't done that one yet.

Knew there was one !

[mrbojangles]

Actually, China has come a VERY long way in the last decade or so with regards to human rights. Don't get me wrong, they aren't perfect and they are also clamping down on Piracy etc.

This is mainly due to having strong ties with the West and working together. This wouldn't continue with boycott's and severing relations. IMHO

[Donz]

I dont have a problem with them.

Comparing North Korea to China is abit off.

There country they can do what they want. As long as there not threatning to go to war against anyone

Uh , Tibet - no , they've already done that

Uh , Taiwan - yes , they haven't done that one yet.

Knew there was one !

Oh well, there not going to war against us. Plus I wouldnt miss out on another chance to beat the poms in the medal tally

[Siam_superfly]

Actually, China has come a VERY long way in the last decade or so with regards to human rights. Don't get me wrong, they aren't perfect and they are also clamping down on Piracy etc.

This is mainly due to having strong ties with the West and working together. This wouldn't continue with boycott's and severing relations. IMHO

Dealing with the West would continue.....the last thing the Party needs is millions more, former state owned factory workers, out of work, hungry, roaming the streets and sick to death of the Partys bull*hit......seeds for a revolution

The Communists have come along way...thye have learnt that the US will protect Tawian, they have learnt to sensor the internet, they have learnt that Hong Kong people do not believe their bull*hit and will not let the central party ruin their economy and take away their freedom of speech, they have learnt to control the media better, they have seen what happened to the USSR....

[mittheimp]

China has a lot of problems agreed. But do you think a democratic China would be free of these problems too! Unless a countries majority population has a decent level of education then the advantageous of democracy are pretty meaningless - as corruption and manipulation takes over (look at Thailand!!). Democracy is not the holly grail that you and the USA seem to believe it is - when it works it is the best system - but only when it works well.

And of course boycotting a government that legislated racism (i.e Nazi Germany) has far more merit than boycotting China - and I'm sure you are not a complete moron Siam butterfly and actually realise this! and remember the Nazi's were elected on the back of a campaign of fear and intimidation - not very democratic!

The Olympics going to China actually helps open up the country and bring greater scrutiny on their record of human rights.

[kayo]

has the OP ever spent any time in beautiful china?

thousands of chinese people would benefit from having the games held there. Millions more would get to know more about this mysterious land.

Maybe change would be a result of the games?

That, to me, sounds pretty positive.

[Siam_superfly]

has the OP ever spent any time in beautiful china?

thousands of chinese people would benefit from having the games held there. Millions more would get to know more about this mysterious land.

Maybe change would be a result of the games?

That, to me, sounds pretty positive.

To ask that question, then of course u have been there.....

The Fly hasnt been to China, but works with a mainland chinese crew and have a fairly good insight into what the common man in communist China thinks......

If the future downfall of the communist's, could be bought about quicker by hosting a games, then Im all for it......and so would all the Chinese that I have ever met......

[Siam_superfly]

China has a lot of problems agreed. But do you think a democratic China would be free of these problems too! Unless a countries majority population has a decent level of education then the advantageous of democracy are pretty meaningless - as corruption and manipulation takes over (look at Thailand!!). Democracy is not the holly grail that you and the USA seem to believe it is - when it works it is the best system - but only when it works well.

And of course boycotting a government that legislated racism (i.e Nazi Germany) has far more merit than boycotting China - and I'm sure you are not a complete moron Siam butterfly and actually realise this! and remember the Nazi's were elected on the back of a campaign of fear and intimidation - not very democratic!

The Olympics going to China actually helps open up the country and bring greater scrutiny on their record of human rights.

Democracy IS the best system.....u said it.....understand that all countries go through growing pains...the longer the sickness, the more healing needed......so ur saying that East Germans should be back behind a wall, or because North Korean's have low educaution, they should now be forever denied the right of voting on their own futures...a better future......

U want to look at Thailand v China......Thai officials can at least get voted out of office if things go really wrong ( yes yes some buy rural votes )....Chinese officials can get away with it if they have the right party connections.....people forget that Taksin kept all his election promises and has done alot of good for Thailand, Taksin is pro western, the protesting Thais are not.....and they get to protest, something they COULD NOT do in China.....people say that Australia has a racist policy on boat people, but name one SE Asian country, that by their own actions dont support Australia's stance...its only some weak greenies and labour fools in Australia, who try to water those laws down...something that could NOT HAPPEN in China.....thats democracy, u dont need a education to know ur hungry, to know that ur being ripped off.......

Edited September 7, 2006 by Siam_superfly

[Thaiquila]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

[Siam_superfly]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

whats absurd, is people who have a world view like u......

u may think differently if u were tumbling out of the sky from 38000 feet over the atlantic.....

Its the USA, Britian, Australia etc who keep our way of live alive......yes that includes u Thaiquila

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

[Donz]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

whats absurd, is people who have a world view like u......

u may think differently if u were tumbling out of the sky from 38000 feet over the atlantic.....

Its the USA, Britian, Australia etc who keep our way of live alive......yes that includes u Thaiquila

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

The US, Uk and Australia??

Thats funny, more like just the US.

[farangsay]

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

Take more than a minute to build a bridge that long.

[Donz]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

whats absurd, is people who have a world view like u......

u may think differently if u were tumbling out of the sky from 38000 feet over the atlantic.....

Its the USA, Britian, Australia etc who keep our way of live alive......yes that includes u Thaiquila

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

Also the media in australia would make you think the US UK and Oz were the only ones in Iraq, is that what your basing this on?

[mittheimp]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

whats absurd, is people who have a world view like u......

u may think differently if u were tumbling out of the sky from 38000 feet over the atlantic.....

Its the USA, Britian, Australia etc who keep our way of live alive......yes that includes u Thaiquila

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

You still havent defended your point about Hitler! maybe you dont want to!

No real point arguing with the likes of you anyway, you are so far right you probably thought Pauline Hanson was too liberal.

It is a fact that China, Vietnam and Cuba - (all evil commies!!) have made greater strides to reduce

starvation, create a real public health service and improve education levels than almost anywhere else on the planet - certainly better than any neighbouring countries from a similar geographical and historical position!

[kayo]

has the OP ever spent any time in beautiful china?

thousands of chinese people would benefit from having the games held there. Millions more would get to know more about this mysterious land.

Maybe change would be a result of the games?

That, to me, sounds pretty positive.

To ask that question, then of course u have been there.....

The Fly hasnt been to China, but works with a mainland chinese crew and have a fairly good insight into what the common man in communist China thinks......

If the future downfall of the communist's, could be bought about quicker by hosting a games, then Im all for it......and so would all the Chinese that I have ever met......

Fly, Super I note you wrote "If the future downfall..."

Fair. who knows what will happen?

But as you and I indicated, it would be a positive, and I think having the olympics there, if not the event directly changes the regime, but yeah, it will bring more scrutiny and it´ll be a step in the right direction.

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

You still havent defended your point about Hitler! maybe you dont want to!

No real point arguing with the likes of you anyway, you are so far right you probably thought Pauline Hanson was too liberal.

It is a fact that China, Vietnam and Cuba - (all evil commies!!) have made greater strides to reduce

starvation, create a real public health service and improve education levels than almost anywhere else on the planet - certainly better than any neighbouring countries from a similar geographical and historical position!

I´ll tread carefully here, cos I really shouldn´t get involved in P´tics, but, Hitler was democraticly elected wasn´t he? So there is no point to defend.

And before anyone starts on that detail. He was. Elected democraticly, that is.

He helped the process by eliminating his enemies through laws and motions. He did NOT get elected throught hte fairest manners, but he was elected.

What he did later is a whole other kettle. Nobody is saying he was a good man.

Having said that, he does tie in with mitt´s later point, about greater strides in developing a country.

Hitler did do that pretty well. Before we justifiably bombed the crap out of it.

So anyway, as nobody seems to be arguing with me yet I truely believe that the Olympics will help along the road to a better china.

and repeating an earlier point, will benefit tens of thousands of chinese.

[mittheimp]

Siam Butterflies point was that democratically elected regimes should not be boycotted where as non democratic ones should - regardless!! So discriminatory laws against minority groups should be tolerated providing they happen democratically where as they shouldn't if they don't!

doesn't make any sense to me - sounds like the US propaganda machine of the 1960's. Find a new enemy in order to justify US imperialism and military spending!

[Siam_superfly]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

whats absurd, is people who have a world view like u......

u may think differently if u were tumbling out of the sky from 38000 feet over the atlantic.....

Its the USA, Britian, Australia etc who keep our way of live alive......yes that includes u Thaiquila

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

Also the media in australia would make you think the US UK and Oz were the only ones in Iraq, is that what your basing this on?

No ...and No

[Siam_superfly]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

whats absurd, is people who have a world view like u......

u may think differently if u were tumbling out of the sky from 38000 feet over the atlantic.....

Its the USA, Britian, Australia etc who keep our way of live alive......yes that includes u Thaiquila

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

You still havent defended your point about Hitler! maybe you dont want to!

No real point arguing with the likes of you anyway, you are so far right you probably thought Pauline Hanson was too liberal.

It is a fact that China, Vietnam and Cuba - (all evil commies!!) have made greater strides to reduce

starvation, create a real public health service and improve education levels than almost anywhere else on the planet - certainly better than any neighbouring countries from a similar geographical and historical position!

The nation health system in China is a no go, needs massive cash injections, which it doesnt get because of Party spending to prop up failing state industries.....

Over 200 million Chinese have never even seen a tooth brush......!!...fact

And what sought of education does one recieve under a communist regime.....

ur belief that those states can out spend western goverments on education is wrong.....and to say that a uni student in Australia is worse of than the same in Cuba, Vietnam, China...ur in dreamworld commrade Mittheimp, not unusual for the Left.....to even compare the standards of education in those countries is a joke....

Remember that the world turned a blind eye to a tyrant named Stalin in World War 2, just because he wasnt Hitler...and look at the results....

Edited September 8, 2006 by Siam_superfly

[Siam_superfly]

Siam Butterflies point was that democratically elected regimes should not be boycotted where as non democratic ones should - regardless!! So discriminatory laws against minority groups should be tolerated providing they happen democratically where as they shouldn't if they don't!

doesn't make any sense to me - sounds like the US propaganda machine of the 1960's. Find a new enemy in order to justify US imperialism and military spending!

The Left - thats u "mittheimp" - will always hate America...why ..coz America halted communism....

how u can defend communist states, when u dont even have to live under one, is just criminal......but typical of the Left.....

back to watching ur left wing CNN and M Moore for u commrade mittheimp......

[Siam_superfly]

has the OP ever spent any time in beautiful china?

thousands of chinese people would benefit from having the games held there. Millions more would get to know more about this mysterious land.

Maybe change would be a result of the games?

That, to me, sounds pretty positive.

To ask that question, then of course u have been there.....

The Fly hasnt been to China, but works with a mainland chinese crew and have a fairly good insight into what the common man in communist China thinks......

If the future downfall of the communist's, could be bought about quicker by hosting a games, then Im all for it......and so would all the Chinese that I have ever met......

Fly, Super I note you wrote "If the future downfall..."

Fair. who knows what will happen?

But as you and I indicated, it would be a positive, and I think having the olympics there, if not the event directly changes the regime, but yeah, it will bring more scrutiny and it´ll be a step in the right direction.

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

You still havent defended your point about Hitler! maybe you dont want to!

No real point arguing with the likes of you anyway, you are so far right you probably thought Pauline Hanson was too liberal.

It is a fact that China, Vietnam and Cuba - (all evil commies!!) have made greater strides to reduce

starvation, create a real public health service and improve education levels than almost anywhere else on the planet - certainly better than any neighbouring countries from a similar geographical and historical position!

I´ll tread carefully here, cos I really shouldn´t get involved in P´tics, but, Hitler was democraticly elected wasn´t he? So there is no point to defend.

And before anyone starts on that detail. He was. Elected democraticly, that is.

He helped the process by eliminating his enemies through laws and motions. He did NOT get elected throught hte fairest manners, but he was elected.

What he did later is a whole other kettle. Nobody is saying he was a good man.

Having said that, he does tie in with mitt´s later point, about greater strides in developing a country.

Hitler did do that pretty well. Before we justifiably bombed the crap out of it.

So anyway, as nobody seems to be arguing with me yet I truely believe that the Olympics will help along the road to a better china.

and repeating an earlier point, will benefit tens of thousands of chinese.

yes.....The Fly agree's...

[soi lurker]

Your so far away from australia mitt, that you still think pauline hanson was a disgrace. She was many things, some are, ahead of her time, and a very poor public speaker. Its a known fact in australia that some of her policy's that were ridiculed at the time, are now being seriously looked at by higher. Put your two cents in, stir the pot, and pi$$ off, just like you do in every other thread.

In answer to your question Siam, if having the event in China, opens the curtain, delivers more benefits to the people, and encourages a better way of living, then let it happen. Unfortunately im not sure how or if this will happen because of the regime in place.

[mittheimp]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

whats absurd, is people who have a world view like u......

u may think differently if u were tumbling out of the sky from 38000 feet over the atlantic.....

Its the USA, Britian, Australia etc who keep our way of live alive......yes that includes u Thaiquila

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

You still havent defended your point about Hitler! maybe you dont want to!

No real point arguing with the likes of you anyway, you are so far right you probably thought Pauline Hanson was too liberal.

It is a fact that China, Vietnam and Cuba - (all evil commies!!) have made greater strides to reduce

starvation, create a real public health service and improve education levels than almost anywhere else on the planet - certainly better than any neighbouring countries from a similar geographical and historical position!

The nation health system in China is a no go, needs massive cash injections, which it doesnt get because of Party spending to prop up failing state industries.....

Over 200 million Chinese have never even seen a tooth brush......!!...fact

And what sought of education does one recieve under a communist regime.....

ur belief that those states can out spend western goverments on education is wrong.....and to say that a uni student in Australia is worse of than the same in Cuba, Vietnam, China...ur in dreamworld commrade Mittheimp, not unusual for the Left.....to even compare the standards of education in those countries is a joke....

Remember that the world turned a blind eye to a tyrant named Stalin in World War 2, just because he wasnt Hitler...and look at the results....

Please read my posts a few times before commenting as you clearly have a problem understanding basic English! I clearly never said a uni student in Australia is worse off than one in Vietnam, Cuba and China - i said these countries have made great improvements in their education level, - this clearly doesn't mean they are now the best!!

Not unusual for right wing nutters to deliberately misquote and deliberately misinterpret opposing views!

[mittheimp]

Your so far away from australia mitt, that you still think pauline hanson was a disgrace. She was many things, some are, ahead of her time, and a very poor public speaker. Its a known fact in australia that some of her policy's that were ridiculed at the time, are now being seriously looked at by higher. Put your two cents in, stir the pot, and pi$$ off, just like you do in every other thread.

In answer to your question Siam, if having the event in China, opens the curtain, delivers more benefits to the people, and encourages a better way of living, then let it happen. Unfortunately im not sure how or if this will happen because of the regime in place.

I personally do find populist nationalistic policies that pander completely to xenophobia and Homophobia a disgrace - but i guess that's just me!

And I have noticed John Howard is quite happy to play a similar, although somewhat diluted game. I wouldn't call this ahead of its time though!

On the question of China and the Olympics i heard on the radio this morning that because of the forthcoming para-Olympics great strides have been made in China towards the treatment of the disabled. Not just in terms of getting a decent medal tally but across the board.

[Siam_superfly]

Anyone notice the right wing OP defended Hitler for being "democratically" elected. Hitler was a genocidal dictator.

I personally think it is absurd, arrogant, and doomed to failure, for the USA to push "democracy" on other countries at the barrel of a gun (if you even believe that lame rationale).

whats absurd, is people who have a world view like u......

u may think differently if u were tumbling out of the sky from 38000 feet over the atlantic.....

Its the USA, Britian, Australia etc who keep our way of live alive......yes that includes u Thaiquila

do u think for a minute that an unchecked China wouldnt march on Tawian......

You still havent defended your point about Hitler! maybe you dont want to!

No real point arguing with the likes of you anyway, you are so far right you probably thought Pauline Hanson was too liberal.

It is a fact that China, Vietnam and Cuba - (all evil commies!!) have made greater strides to reduce

starvation, create a real public health service and improve education levels than almost anywhere else on the planet - certainly better than any neighbouring countries from a similar geographical and historical position!

The nation health system in China is a no go, needs massive cash injections, which it doesnt get because of Party spending to prop up failing state industries.....

Over 200 million Chinese have never even seen a tooth brush......!!...fact

And what sought of education does one recieve under a communist regime.....

ur belief that those states can out spend western goverments on education is wrong.....and to say that a uni student in Australia is worse of than the same in Cuba, Vietnam, China...ur in dreamworld commrade Mittheimp, not unusual for the Left.....to even compare the standards of education in those countries is a joke....

Remember that the world turned a blind eye to a tyrant named Stalin in World War 2, just because he wasnt Hitler...and look at the results....

Please read my posts a few times before commenting as you clearly have a problem understanding basic English! I clearly never said a uni student in Australia is worse off than one in Vietnam, Cuba and China - i said these countries have made great improvements in their education level, - this clearly doesn't mean they are now the best!!

Not unusual for right wing nutters to deliberately misquote and deliberately misinterpret opposing views!

No u didnt say that...but what did u mean ???.....so we shall take a look at what u said....

Cuba, Vietnam, China have made great improvements in their education levels.....is what u said....ok....so that sounds really good to someone reading that, until u look into it....even u, the defender of the communists, cant hide the fact when it comes to the crunch that their ecomonies are failures and their people are the ones that suffer.....

So what u forgot to post was that Cuba, Vietnam, China have gone from dirt floor classrooms to concrete floor classrooms.....

What else could u mean ??? hmmmmmmmm.....so in the end, u have nothing to stand on with education, but nice try to fool some off the people, comrade mittheimp...

What about health....were u not telling us all how great the communists are at giving their people a health system......compared to the west, that is a joke........So where would u go for an operation out of Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, China, Myanmar.........the last five having been or still are communist nations...hmmmmmm comrade...yes u would pick American backed Thailand for an operation....so dont keep posting ur left wing bull*hit, and go back to reading ur chairman Mao books and watching CNN........