2010 Crackdown: Suthep submits evidence of 'blackshirts' to NACC

[tbthailand]

No good reason... no, not at all, but the elites and the military don't just hate Thaksin, they also hate and show nothing but contempt for the people who want to change the status quo of politics to be just even a little bit more democratic.... Especially since they worked so hard to install Abhisit, how could they put up with people calling for an election? That had to stop.

To be honest, in 2010 I was absolutely shocked at the level of violence used against the protests.

Absolutely! I was also shocked by the level of violence. Gunfire and grenades against non-red-shirts. Difficult to believe that fairy tale of "peaceful protesters, not terrorists"

BTW the first grenades dropped around the time a court decided on whether or not to return 76 billion Baht of Shinawatra money blocked. Interesting that those peaceful UDD members rise to protect the illgotten gains of an Amply Rich criminal fugitive. Almost as if they were afraid not to get paid.

It's worth noting that a number of those grenade (and drive by shootings) attacks were directly against banks that held Thaksin's frozen assets.

Also worth noting that bombing campaign began weeks before any deadly clashes between protestors and security forces, just in case people continue to be confused over who started the violence.

I found a site that lists some (I know it's not the full list) of attacks before the April 10th clashes:

Jan 14, 2010 : Being shot with M79 into the Commander Royal Thai Army Office, close to the working room of Gen Anupong Paochinda, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army at the present time. (note: that was after Seh Daeng, who ran security for the "Peaceful Protesters" openly threatened to teach Anupong the "grenade dance")

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M79 thrown into a Bangkok Bank Praram2 branch, but failed.

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M26 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank Phraram2 branch Silom Road branch, 2 men, Red-shirt protester caught. In the same night there’s an unknown bomb thrown into Bangkok bank, Phapradang branch, the glass wall was damaged.

Feb 28, 2010 : A grenade of M67 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank, Srinakharin branch, the officer saved it before it exploded.

March 15, 2010: 6 M79 bombs shot into department of Infantry 1st Infantry Regiment, King’s Own Bodyguard , 4 of 6 exploded and 2 officers got injured.

March 16, 2010 : M79 bombs shot into the residence, 22/18 Soi Ladprao 23, no one found injured or killed.

March 19, 2010 : M16 shot into the house of residents Khlong Tan Nuea district Wattana of Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed that there was a demand payment of a debt. Still, There was an M16 shot into a house of residents at soi Sukhumvit 53 Khlong Tan Nuea district Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed to be a demand payment of a debt.In the same night, a guy threw gasoline with fire upon the front line tank of King’s Guard, 2nd Cavalry Division, 2 men caught as taxi drivers involving in Red-shirt protest group.

March 20, 2010 : M67 bombs thrown into Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission of Nonthaburi and at the same while Ministry of Defence was shot with RPG rocket, found suspicious objects on the foot bridge of Somdej Phra Pinklao, however the officer succeeded in explosive disposal.

March 22, 2010 : M79 grenades thrown into Thonburi Highway Maintenance Unit.

March 23, 2010 : Ministry of Public Health Nonthaburi shot by M79 and M67 bomb thrown into the Legal Execution Department at Bangkhunnon.March 24, 2010 : Bombs dropped at the electric control box near the fence of Nonthaburi City hall, no damage found and the M67 bomb thrown near the electricity pole of Legal Execution Department, Taling Chan district Bangkok.

March 26, 2010 : Office of The Attorney General were attacked by an M67 bomb.

March 27, 2010 : There were explosions in many areas (Bang Loong Yai were shot with M79, The 120-year building of the Customs Department was shot with K75 bomb, nearby found 2 of M67 bombs on Nawamin Raod, 5 channel TV station were shot with M67 and M79 bombs shot into the 11 channel TV station.

March 28, 2010 : M79 shot into 11th Infantry Regiment King’ Bodyguard, M67 bomb thrown into Banhan Silpa archa residence.

March 30, 2010 : A grenade of M67 thrown at General Prem Tinsulanonda Statesman Foundation.

April 3, 2010 : There were explosions at TOT telephone intersection, Phadung Krung Kasem branch near the residence no. 260-262 on Larn Luang Street.

April 4, 2010 : There was a car bomb at Poseidon spa, resulted a home-made bomb TNT type.

April 6, 2010 : M79 bomb shot into residence no. 48 Mongkol nivej village Soi Vipavadee Ransit 44, Chatuchak Bangkok.

April 7, 2010 : M26 bomb thrown at a local police boot on Nawamin Road and fire extinguisher contained urea fertilizer and diesel fuel with clock cycle were put near Fashion Island shopping mall.

April 8, 2010 : M79 bomb and M16 shot into New Politics Party Office on Phra Sumen Road and TPI building on Narathiwat Ratchanakharin Road.

Very detailed list. Why don't you list also how many rounds were fired at the unarmed reds by the Army and who ordered it? As well as all the killings by the yellows and Suthep's men in black during his protest? Were is your objectivity?

Were is your objectivity?

uhhh, no where to be seen.

so many posters are accused of defending the UDD and red shirts - yet I have never seen one post that defends violence by the red shirts.

But I see mountains of posts that defend the violence of the army... as for 2014, well the junta cheerleaders are still in full-fledged denial that the PDRC protesters had weapons (like RPGs, ... just as one example) or that they attacked, much less killed anyone... (Laksi, anyone??) or that they had armed guards (such as Navy personnel) with military weapons....

[halloween]

Absolutely! I was also shocked by the level of violence. Gunfire and grenades against non-red-shirts. Difficult to believe that fairy tale of "peaceful protesters, not terrorists"

BTW the first grenades dropped around the time a court decided on whether or not to return 76 billion Baht of Shinawatra money blocked. Interesting that those peaceful UDD members rise to protect the illgotten gains of an Amply Rich criminal fugitive. Almost as if they were afraid not to get paid.

It's worth noting that a number of those grenade (and drive by shootings) attacks were directly against banks that held Thaksin's frozen assets.

Also worth noting that bombing campaign began weeks before any deadly clashes between protestors and security forces, just in case people continue to be confused over who started the violence.

I found a site that lists some (I know it's not the full list) of attacks before the April 10th clashes:

Jan 14, 2010 : Being shot with M79 into the Commander Royal Thai Army Office, close to the working room of Gen Anupong Paochinda, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army at the present time. (note: that was after Seh Daeng, who ran security for the "Peaceful Protesters" openly threatened to teach Anupong the "grenade dance")

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M79 thrown into a Bangkok Bank Praram2 branch, but failed.

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M26 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank Phraram2 branch Silom Road branch, 2 men, Red-shirt protester caught. In the same night there’s an unknown bomb thrown into Bangkok bank, Phapradang branch, the glass wall was damaged.

Feb 28, 2010 : A grenade of M67 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank, Srinakharin branch, the officer saved it before it exploded.

March 15, 2010: 6 M79 bombs shot into department of Infantry 1st Infantry Regiment, King’s Own Bodyguard , 4 of 6 exploded and 2 officers got injured.

March 16, 2010 : M79 bombs shot into the residence, 22/18 Soi Ladprao 23, no one found injured or killed.

March 19, 2010 : M16 shot into the house of residents Khlong Tan Nuea district Wattana of Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed that there was a demand payment of a debt. Still, There was an M16 shot into a house of residents at soi Sukhumvit 53 Khlong Tan Nuea district Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed to be a demand payment of a debt.In the same night, a guy threw gasoline with fire upon the front line tank of King’s Guard, 2nd Cavalry Division, 2 men caught as taxi drivers involving in Red-shirt protest group.

March 20, 2010 : M67 bombs thrown into Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission of Nonthaburi and at the same while Ministry of Defence was shot with RPG rocket, found suspicious objects on the foot bridge of Somdej Phra Pinklao, however the officer succeeded in explosive disposal.

March 22, 2010 : M79 grenades thrown into Thonburi Highway Maintenance Unit.

March 23, 2010 : Ministry of Public Health Nonthaburi shot by M79 and M67 bomb thrown into the Legal Execution Department at Bangkhunnon.March 24, 2010 : Bombs dropped at the electric control box near the fence of Nonthaburi City hall, no damage found and the M67 bomb thrown near the electricity pole of Legal Execution Department, Taling Chan district Bangkok.

March 26, 2010 : Office of The Attorney General were attacked by an M67 bomb.

March 27, 2010 : There were explosions in many areas (Bang Loong Yai were shot with M79, The 120-year building of the Customs Department was shot with K75 bomb, nearby found 2 of M67 bombs on Nawamin Raod, 5 channel TV station were shot with M67 and M79 bombs shot into the 11 channel TV station.

March 28, 2010 : M79 shot into 11th Infantry Regiment King’ Bodyguard, M67 bomb thrown into Banhan Silpa archa residence.

March 30, 2010 : A grenade of M67 thrown at General Prem Tinsulanonda Statesman Foundation.

April 3, 2010 : There were explosions at TOT telephone intersection, Phadung Krung Kasem branch near the residence no. 260-262 on Larn Luang Street.

April 4, 2010 : There was a car bomb at Poseidon spa, resulted a home-made bomb TNT type.

April 6, 2010 : M79 bomb shot into residence no. 48 Mongkol nivej village Soi Vipavadee Ransit 44, Chatuchak Bangkok.

April 7, 2010 : M26 bomb thrown at a local police boot on Nawamin Road and fire extinguisher contained urea fertilizer and diesel fuel with clock cycle were put near Fashion Island shopping mall.

April 8, 2010 : M79 bomb and M16 shot into New Politics Party Office on Phra Sumen Road and TPI building on Narathiwat Ratchanakharin Road.

Very detailed list. Why don't you list also how many rounds were fired at the unarmed reds by the Army and who ordered it? As well as all the killings by the yellows and Suthep's men in black during his protest? Were is your objectivity?

Were is your objectivity?

uhhh, no where to be seen.

so many posters are accused of defending the UDD and red shirts - yet I have never seen one post that defends violence by the red shirts.

But I see mountains of posts that defend the violence of the army... as for 2014, well the junta cheerleaders are still in full-fledged denial that the PDRC protesters had weapons (like RPGs, ... just as one example) or that they attacked, much less killed anyone... (Laksi, anyone??) or that they had armed guards (such as Navy personnel) with military weapons....

You have never seen posts defending the violence of the red shirts, but you are shocked that violence was used to STOP it? Before attempting to change the subject, why don't you consider what would have been the result of the series of events listed if they had occurred in your own country?

[tbthailand]

It's worth noting that a number of those grenade (and drive by shootings) attacks were directly against banks that held Thaksin's frozen assets.

Also worth noting that bombing campaign began weeks before any deadly clashes between protestors and security forces, just in case people continue to be confused over who started the violence.

I found a site that lists some (I know it's not the full list) of attacks before the April 10th clashes:

Jan 14, 2010 : Being shot with M79 into the Commander Royal Thai Army Office, close to the working room of Gen Anupong Paochinda, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army at the present time. (note: that was after Seh Daeng, who ran security for the "Peaceful Protesters" openly threatened to teach Anupong the "grenade dance")

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M79 thrown into a Bangkok Bank Praram2 branch, but failed.

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M26 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank Phraram2 branch Silom Road branch, 2 men, Red-shirt protester caught. In the same night there’s an unknown bomb thrown into Bangkok bank, Phapradang branch, the glass wall was damaged.

Feb 28, 2010 : A grenade of M67 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank, Srinakharin branch, the officer saved it before it exploded.

March 15, 2010: 6 M79 bombs shot into department of Infantry 1st Infantry Regiment, King’s Own Bodyguard , 4 of 6 exploded and 2 officers got injured.

March 16, 2010 : M79 bombs shot into the residence, 22/18 Soi Ladprao 23, no one found injured or killed.

March 19, 2010 : M16 shot into the house of residents Khlong Tan Nuea district Wattana of Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed that there was a demand payment of a debt. Still, There was an M16 shot into a house of residents at soi Sukhumvit 53 Khlong Tan Nuea district Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed to be a demand payment of a debt.In the same night, a guy threw gasoline with fire upon the front line tank of King’s Guard, 2nd Cavalry Division, 2 men caught as taxi drivers involving in Red-shirt protest group.

March 20, 2010 : M67 bombs thrown into Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission of Nonthaburi and at the same while Ministry of Defence was shot with RPG rocket, found suspicious objects on the foot bridge of Somdej Phra Pinklao, however the officer succeeded in explosive disposal.

March 22, 2010 : M79 grenades thrown into Thonburi Highway Maintenance Unit.

March 23, 2010 : Ministry of Public Health Nonthaburi shot by M79 and M67 bomb thrown into the Legal Execution Department at Bangkhunnon.March 24, 2010 : Bombs dropped at the electric control box near the fence of Nonthaburi City hall, no damage found and the M67 bomb thrown near the electricity pole of Legal Execution Department, Taling Chan district Bangkok.

March 26, 2010 : Office of The Attorney General were attacked by an M67 bomb.

March 27, 2010 : There were explosions in many areas (Bang Loong Yai were shot with M79, The 120-year building of the Customs Department was shot with K75 bomb, nearby found 2 of M67 bombs on Nawamin Raod, 5 channel TV station were shot with M67 and M79 bombs shot into the 11 channel TV station.

March 28, 2010 : M79 shot into 11th Infantry Regiment King’ Bodyguard, M67 bomb thrown into Banhan Silpa archa residence.

March 30, 2010 : A grenade of M67 thrown at General Prem Tinsulanonda Statesman Foundation.

April 3, 2010 : There were explosions at TOT telephone intersection, Phadung Krung Kasem branch near the residence no. 260-262 on Larn Luang Street.

April 4, 2010 : There was a car bomb at Poseidon spa, resulted a home-made bomb TNT type.

April 6, 2010 : M79 bomb shot into residence no. 48 Mongkol nivej village Soi Vipavadee Ransit 44, Chatuchak Bangkok.

April 7, 2010 : M26 bomb thrown at a local police boot on Nawamin Road and fire extinguisher contained urea fertilizer and diesel fuel with clock cycle were put near Fashion Island shopping mall.

April 8, 2010 : M79 bomb and M16 shot into New Politics Party Office on Phra Sumen Road and TPI building on Narathiwat Ratchanakharin Road.

Very detailed list. Why don't you list also how many rounds were fired at the unarmed reds by the Army and who ordered it? As well as all the killings by the yellows and Suthep's men in black during his protest? Were is your objectivity?

Were is your objectivity?

uhhh, no where to be seen.

so many posters are accused of defending the UDD and red shirts - yet I have never seen one post that defends violence by the red shirts.

But I see mountains of posts that defend the violence of the army... as for 2014, well the junta cheerleaders are still in full-fledged denial that the PDRC protesters had weapons (like RPGs, ... just as one example) or that they attacked, much less killed anyone... (Laksi, anyone??) or that they had armed guards (such as Navy personnel) with military weapons....

You have never seen posts defending the violence of the red shirts, but you are shocked that violence was used to STOP it? Before attempting to change the subject, why don't you consider what would have been the result of the series of events listed if they had occurred in your own country?

in my country, if the army did what they did in Thailand, the generals would be arrested and tried for treason.

[Robby nz]

No good reason... no, not at all, but the elites and the military don't just hate Thaksin, they also hate and show nothing but contempt for the people who want to change the status quo of politics to be just even a little bit more democratic.... Especially since they worked so hard to install Abhisit, how could they put up with people calling for an election? That had to stop.

To be honest, in 2010 I was absolutely shocked at the level of violence used against the protests.

Absolutely! I was also shocked by the level of violence. Gunfire and grenades against non-red-shirts. Difficult to believe that fairy tale of "peaceful protesters, not terrorists"

BTW the first grenades dropped around the time a court decided on whether or not to return 76 billion Baht of Shinawatra money blocked. Interesting that those peaceful UDD members rise to protect the illgotten gains of an Amply Rich criminal fugitive. Almost as if they were afraid not to get paid.

It's worth noting that a number of those grenade (and drive by shootings) attacks were directly against banks that held Thaksin's frozen assets.

Also worth noting that bombing campaign began weeks before any deadly clashes between protestors and security forces, just in case people continue to be confused over who started the violence.

I found a site that lists some (I know it's not the full list) of attacks before the April 10th clashes:

Jan 14, 2010 : Being shot with M79 into the Commander Royal Thai Army Office, close to the working room of Gen Anupong Paochinda, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army at the present time. (note: that was after Seh Daeng, who ran security for the "Peaceful Protesters" openly threatened to teach Anupong the "grenade dance")

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M79 thrown into a Bangkok Bank Praram2 branch, but failed.

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M26 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank Phraram2 branch Silom Road branch, 2 men, Red-shirt protester caught. In the same night there’s an unknown bomb thrown into Bangkok bank, Phapradang branch, the glass wall was damaged.

Feb 28, 2010 : A grenade of M67 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank, Srinakharin branch, the officer saved it before it exploded.

March 15, 2010: 6 M79 bombs shot into department of Infantry 1st Infantry Regiment, King’s Own Bodyguard , 4 of 6 exploded and 2 officers got injured.

March 16, 2010 : M79 bombs shot into the residence, 22/18 Soi Ladprao 23, no one found injured or killed.

March 19, 2010 : M16 shot into the house of residents Khlong Tan Nuea district Wattana of Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed that there was a demand payment of a debt. Still, There was an M16 shot into a house of residents at soi Sukhumvit 53 Khlong Tan Nuea district Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed to be a demand payment of a debt.In the same night, a guy threw gasoline with fire upon the front line tank of King’s Guard, 2nd Cavalry Division, 2 men caught as taxi drivers involving in Red-shirt protest group.

March 20, 2010 : M67 bombs thrown into Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission of Nonthaburi and at the same while Ministry of Defence was shot with RPG rocket, found suspicious objects on the foot bridge of Somdej Phra Pinklao, however the officer succeeded in explosive disposal.

March 22, 2010 : M79 grenades thrown into Thonburi Highway Maintenance Unit.

March 23, 2010 : Ministry of Public Health Nonthaburi shot by M79 and M67 bomb thrown into the Legal Execution Department at Bangkhunnon.March 24, 2010 : Bombs dropped at the electric control box near the fence of Nonthaburi City hall, no damage found and the M67 bomb thrown near the electricity pole of Legal Execution Department, Taling Chan district Bangkok.

March 26, 2010 : Office of The Attorney General were attacked by an M67 bomb.

March 27, 2010 : There were explosions in many areas (Bang Loong Yai were shot with M79, The 120-year building of the Customs Department was shot with K75 bomb, nearby found 2 of M67 bombs on Nawamin Raod, 5 channel TV station were shot with M67 and M79 bombs shot into the 11 channel TV station.

March 28, 2010 : M79 shot into 11th Infantry Regiment King’ Bodyguard, M67 bomb thrown into Banhan Silpa archa residence.

March 30, 2010 : A grenade of M67 thrown at General Prem Tinsulanonda Statesman Foundation.

April 3, 2010 : There were explosions at TOT telephone intersection, Phadung Krung Kasem branch near the residence no. 260-262 on Larn Luang Street.

April 4, 2010 : There was a car bomb at Poseidon spa, resulted a home-made bomb TNT type.

April 6, 2010 : M79 bomb shot into residence no. 48 Mongkol nivej village Soi Vipavadee Ransit 44, Chatuchak Bangkok.

April 7, 2010 : M26 bomb thrown at a local police boot on Nawamin Road and fire extinguisher contained urea fertilizer and diesel fuel with clock cycle were put near Fashion Island shopping mall.

April 8, 2010 : M79 bomb and M16 shot into New Politics Party Office on Phra Sumen Road and TPI building on Narathiwat Ratchanakharin Road.

Very detailed list. Why don't you list also how many rounds were fired at the unarmed reds by the Army and who ordered it? As well as all the killings by the yellows and Suthep's men in black during his protest? Were is your objectivity?

So now it was Suthep who owned the men in black. Thats a new one, we get a different twist every day.

[SoilSpoil]

Ignore, divert, ignore, divert seems to be the standard tactics used by those defending the siege of Bangkok. This topic is about the 2010 Men in Black. Not about Sutheps uprising in 2014, which rightfully started after the Yingluck administration raped mother Justice in the midst of night to serve her marionettist brother.

The mantra crackdown on innocent and unarmed protesters that is used is so flawed and ignorant. If you choose to stay around an armed militia, you should know the risks. and the red shirts, from hoolies to grannies all knew what elements were among them. Even I as I walked through the protest zone on several occassions, saw it with my own eyes.

If you would really be objective, you should thank god that only 90 something people lost their lives in the 2 to 3 month city guerilla warfar. Think about the Tahrir square.

And as some of us here try to explain, when did the 2010 version of the red siege start? Right after the confiscation of 76 billion baht from the mastermind himself. Those who believe the fairytale of an uprising of the poor against an evil political take over are as naive as a 2 year old. A lot of wealthy Thais were involved. New elite that paid international PR firms to keep the fairyrale alive. They wanted their corrupt gravy train back.

Bangkok was a war zone in 2010, Thaksin's second attempt to stage a violent takeover to come back and get his revenge.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[robblok]

No good reason... no, not at all, but the elites and the military don't just hate Thaksin, they also hate and show nothing but contempt for the people who want to change the status quo of politics to be just even a little bit more democratic.... Especially since they worked so hard to install Abhisit, how could they put up with people calling for an election? That had to stop.

To be honest, in 2010 I was absolutely shocked at the level of violence used against the protests.

Absolutely! I was also shocked by the level of violence. Gunfire and grenades against non-red-shirts. Difficult to believe that fairy tale of "peaceful protesters, not terrorists"

BTW the first grenades dropped around the time a court decided on whether or not to return 76 billion Baht of Shinawatra money blocked. Interesting that those peaceful UDD members rise to protect the illgotten gains of an Amply Rich criminal fugitive. Almost as if they were afraid not to get paid.

It's worth noting that a number of those grenade (and drive by shootings) attacks were directly against banks that held Thaksin's frozen assets.

Also worth noting that bombing campaign began weeks before any deadly clashes between protestors and security forces, just in case people continue to be confused over who started the violence.

I found a site that lists some (I know it's not the full list) of attacks before the April 10th clashes:

Jan 14, 2010 : Being shot with M79 into the Commander Royal Thai Army Office, close to the working room of Gen Anupong Paochinda, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army at the present time. (note: that was after Seh Daeng, who ran security for the "Peaceful Protesters" openly threatened to teach Anupong the "grenade dance")

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M79 thrown into a Bangkok Bank Praram2 branch, but failed.

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M26 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank Phraram2 branch Silom Road branch, 2 men, Red-shirt protester caught. In the same night there’s an unknown bomb thrown into Bangkok bank, Phapradang branch, the glass wall was damaged.

Feb 28, 2010 : A grenade of M67 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank, Srinakharin branch, the officer saved it before it exploded.

March 15, 2010: 6 M79 bombs shot into department of Infantry 1st Infantry Regiment, King’s Own Bodyguard , 4 of 6 exploded and 2 officers got injured.

March 16, 2010 : M79 bombs shot into the residence, 22/18 Soi Ladprao 23, no one found injured or killed.

March 19, 2010 : M16 shot into the house of residents Khlong Tan Nuea district Wattana of Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed that there was a demand payment of a debt. Still, There was an M16 shot into a house of residents at soi Sukhumvit 53 Khlong Tan Nuea district Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed to be a demand payment of a debt.In the same night, a guy threw gasoline with fire upon the front line tank of King’s Guard, 2nd Cavalry Division, 2 men caught as taxi drivers involving in Red-shirt protest group.

March 20, 2010 : M67 bombs thrown into Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission of Nonthaburi and at the same while Ministry of Defence was shot with RPG rocket, found suspicious objects on the foot bridge of Somdej Phra Pinklao, however the officer succeeded in explosive disposal.

March 22, 2010 : M79 grenades thrown into Thonburi Highway Maintenance Unit.

March 23, 2010 : Ministry of Public Health Nonthaburi shot by M79 and M67 bomb thrown into the Legal Execution Department at Bangkhunnon.March 24, 2010 : Bombs dropped at the electric control box near the fence of Nonthaburi City hall, no damage found and the M67 bomb thrown near the electricity pole of Legal Execution Department, Taling Chan district Bangkok.

March 26, 2010 : Office of The Attorney General were attacked by an M67 bomb.

March 27, 2010 : There were explosions in many areas (Bang Loong Yai were shot with M79, The 120-year building of the Customs Department was shot with K75 bomb, nearby found 2 of M67 bombs on Nawamin Raod, 5 channel TV station were shot with M67 and M79 bombs shot into the 11 channel TV station.

March 28, 2010 : M79 shot into 11th Infantry Regiment King’ Bodyguard, M67 bomb thrown into Banhan Silpa archa residence.

March 30, 2010 : A grenade of M67 thrown at General Prem Tinsulanonda Statesman Foundation.

April 3, 2010 : There were explosions at TOT telephone intersection, Phadung Krung Kasem branch near the residence no. 260-262 on Larn Luang Street.

April 4, 2010 : There was a car bomb at Poseidon spa, resulted a home-made bomb TNT type.

April 6, 2010 : M79 bomb shot into residence no. 48 Mongkol nivej village Soi Vipavadee Ransit 44, Chatuchak Bangkok.

April 7, 2010 : M26 bomb thrown at a local police boot on Nawamin Road and fire extinguisher contained urea fertilizer and diesel fuel with clock cycle were put near Fashion Island shopping mall.

April 8, 2010 : M79 bomb and M16 shot into New Politics Party Office on Phra Sumen Road and TPI building on Narathiwat Ratchanakharin Road.

Very detailed list. Why don't you list also how many rounds were fired at the unarmed reds by the Army and who ordered it? As well as all the killings by the yellows and Suthep's men in black during his protest? Were is your objectivity?

That you can't be bothered to bring across your point of view in a discussion is your problem not his. Does show again the intelligence level of redshirts They think that the other side has the obligation to make their point for them.

[rubl]

No good reason... no, not at all, but the elites and the military don't just hate Thaksin, they also hate and show nothing but contempt for the people who want to change the status quo of politics to be just even a little bit more democratic.... Especially since they worked so hard to install Abhisit, how could they put up with people calling for an election? That had to stop.

To be honest, in 2010 I was absolutely shocked at the level of violence used against the protests.

Absolutely! I was also shocked by the level of violence. Gunfire and grenades against non-red-shirts. Difficult to believe that fairy tale of "peaceful protesters, not terrorists"

BTW the first grenades dropped around the time a court decided on whether or not to return 76 billion Baht of Shinawatra money blocked. Interesting that those peaceful UDD members rise to protect the illgotten gains of an Amply Rich criminal fugitive. Almost as if they were afraid not to get paid.

It's worth noting that a number of those grenade (and drive by shootings) attacks were directly against banks that held Thaksin's frozen assets.

Also worth noting that bombing campaign began weeks before any deadly clashes between protestors and security forces, just in case people continue to be confused over who started the violence.

I found a site that lists some (I know it's not the full list) of attacks before the April 10th clashes:

Jan 14, 2010 : Being shot with M79 into the Commander Royal Thai Army Office, close to the working room of Gen Anupong Paochinda, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army at the present time. (note: that was after Seh Daeng, who ran security for the "Peaceful Protesters" openly threatened to teach Anupong the "grenade dance")

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M79 thrown into a Bangkok Bank Praram2 branch, but failed.

Feb 27, 2010 : A grenade of M26 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank Phraram2 branch Silom Road branch, 2 men, Red-shirt protester caught. In the same night there’s an unknown bomb thrown into Bangkok bank, Phapradang branch, the glass wall was damaged.

Feb 28, 2010 : A grenade of M67 bomb thrown into Bangkok Bank, Srinakharin branch, the officer saved it before it exploded.

March 15, 2010: 6 M79 bombs shot into department of Infantry 1st Infantry Regiment, King’s Own Bodyguard , 4 of 6 exploded and 2 officers got injured.

March 16, 2010 : M79 bombs shot into the residence, 22/18 Soi Ladprao 23, no one found injured or killed.

March 19, 2010 : M16 shot into the house of residents Khlong Tan Nuea district Wattana of Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed that there was a demand payment of a debt. Still, There was an M16 shot into a house of residents at soi Sukhumvit 53 Khlong Tan Nuea district Bangkok, no one found injured, assumed to be a demand payment of a debt.In the same night, a guy threw gasoline with fire upon the front line tank of King’s Guard, 2nd Cavalry Division, 2 men caught as taxi drivers involving in Red-shirt protest group.

March 20, 2010 : M67 bombs thrown into Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission of Nonthaburi and at the same while Ministry of Defence was shot with RPG rocket, found suspicious objects on the foot bridge of Somdej Phra Pinklao, however the officer succeeded in explosive disposal.

March 22, 2010 : M79 grenades thrown into Thonburi Highway Maintenance Unit.

March 23, 2010 : Ministry of Public Health Nonthaburi shot by M79 and M67 bomb thrown into the Legal Execution Department at Bangkhunnon.March 24, 2010 : Bombs dropped at the electric control box near the fence of Nonthaburi City hall, no damage found and the M67 bomb thrown near the electricity pole of Legal Execution Department, Taling Chan district Bangkok.

March 26, 2010 : Office of The Attorney General were attacked by an M67 bomb.

March 27, 2010 : There were explosions in many areas (Bang Loong Yai were shot with M79, The 120-year building of the Customs Department was shot with K75 bomb, nearby found 2 of M67 bombs on Nawamin Raod, 5 channel TV station were shot with M67 and M79 bombs shot into the 11 channel TV station.

March 28, 2010 : M79 shot into 11th Infantry Regiment King’ Bodyguard, M67 bomb thrown into Banhan Silpa archa residence.

March 30, 2010 : A grenade of M67 thrown at General Prem Tinsulanonda Statesman Foundation.

April 3, 2010 : There were explosions at TOT telephone intersection, Phadung Krung Kasem branch near the residence no. 260-262 on Larn Luang Street.

April 4, 2010 : There was a car bomb at Poseidon spa, resulted a home-made bomb TNT type.

April 6, 2010 : M79 bomb shot into residence no. 48 Mongkol nivej village Soi Vipavadee Ransit 44, Chatuchak Bangkok.

April 7, 2010 : M26 bomb thrown at a local police boot on Nawamin Road and fire extinguisher contained urea fertilizer and diesel fuel with clock cycle were put near Fashion Island shopping mall.

April 8, 2010 : M79 bomb and M16 shot into New Politics Party Office on Phra Sumen Road and TPI building on Narathiwat Ratchanakharin Road.

Very detailed list. Why don't you list also how many rounds were fired at the unarmed reds by the Army and who ordered it? As well as all the killings by the yellows and Suthep's men in black during his protest? Were is your objectivity?

Goh, this is real news. Yellows and Sutheps MiB did some killings in 2010?

[rubl]

Very detailed list. Why don't you list also how many rounds were fired at the unarmed reds by the Army and who ordered it? As well as all the killings by the yellows and Suthep's men in black during his protest? Were is your objectivity?

Were is your objectivity?

uhhh, no where to be seen.

so many posters are accused of defending the UDD and red shirts - yet I have never seen one post that defends violence by the red shirts.

But I see mountains of posts that defend the violence of the army... as for 2014, well the junta cheerleaders are still in full-fledged denial that the PDRC protesters had weapons (like RPGs, ... just as one example) or that they attacked, much less killed anyone... (Laksi, anyone??) or that they had armed guards (such as Navy personnel) with military weapons....

You have never seen posts defending the violence of the red shirts, but you are shocked that violence was used to STOP it? Before attempting to change the subject, why don't you consider what would have been the result of the series of events listed if they had occurred in your own country?

in my country, if the army did what they did in Thailand, the generals would be arrested and tried for treason.

In lots of countries the first grenade attacks would already have seen dedicated police forces set up concentrating on those terrorists firing those grenades.

Anyway I believe that in your country which I think is the USA the National Guard, the FBI and some other organisations would have been called to neutralise the terrorists. Under the Homeland Security Act some people might have been arrested for a while and be interrogated with prejudice. With the blessing of the President, Congress and a larger part of the American population.

So, Men-in-black, UDD, responsibility and a few flying pigs.

[aaacorp]

Maybe you can feel quite upset if EACH TIME you win an election, the army step in to put someone they want instead....for more than 15 years.....

Whatever you said mate it was a violent crackdown on protesters who were ready to fight yes, but who didn't start the live rounds days.

Why some areas were live rounds while other not?

Why the general in charge do not sit with Suthep or Abhisit?

Why there is still not any clear explanation from the Army about the temple shooting?

Why the journalist families who were shoot by the army still don t have any answer?

It is not like the army here has an history of non violence....

Each time there was a government elected in Thailand which didn t suit the "elite/army/above" it was removed in a way or another...

I have said in the past, I was a supporter of Thaksin and was very happy to see him win. He won two terms in a row. So its not "EACH TIME", he could very much have held office if it were not for his corruption and people fed up with his brazen moves regarding his self interest and business.

Wow we are back at the "live round days" again, I say red shirts threw grenades and shot up pro dem businesses, you say soldiers used live rounds. Which came first you tell me.

"Why some areas were live rounds while other not?"

I'm pretty sure the whole city became a live round zone, but its mostly concentrated at Silom and Ratchaprasong because that is were the main red shirt camp is.

"Why the general in charge do not sit with Suthep or Abhisit?"

I don't know what you mean by it, either way they are different organization, why would he sit with Suthep and Abhisit?

"Why there is still not any clear explanation from the Army about the temple shooting?"

Do I really have to repeat why the Army did not give a clear explanation? Its like asking why Yingluck refuse to release Rice Scheme figures for two years, asking Thaksin to clear up his corruption charge. Either way NACC did find that soldiers were responsible for most of the deaths and that is why Suthep and Abhisit has to report in pending a trial. No need to debate if anything will happen or not yet.

"Why the journalist families who were shoot by the army still don t have any answer?"

Based on investigations last year, they do have an answer of which direction the shooting most likely came from, it was most likely from the soldiers side. Who shot who we will never know. Again no need to debate as it will be a dead end road.

"Maybe you can feel quite upset if EACH TIME you win an election, the army step in to put someone they want instead....for more than 15 years....."

"Each time there was a government elected in Thailand which didn t suit the "elite/army/above" it was removed in a way or another.."

Do I have to remind you TRT/PTP has been in the office for the better part of the decade? So your statement is completely false and you have no clue about Thai politics other than the red propaganda you've been reading or someone is telling you!

Yes I do feel upset that TRT/PTP can win election after election while making false promises and continuing to put farmers in more debt. Lying to the public and coming up with schemes that are not sustainable, and bold enough to flaunt it. I'm more than happy to debate about Populist Policies and Schemes.

All of your questions can be answered if you have kept up to date with the news. It seems like you are stuck on the mind set of "anti coup", coup is bad, many people get killed and not aware of the events that have happened. Honestly, without change like this, the country will always be corrupt with no one following the laws.

You re obviously didn t follow the politics and still think the junta do this for the wellness of thai citizen.

The army do this for the few at the top.

What upset me the most is that Suthep/Prayout supporters still think thai people are stupid and would have voted again for Yingluck after getting bankrupt because of the rice scheme....

Even without the army the poll showed she was in a bad situation.

Don t forget the army corrpution, much more silent but believe me really present and involving a HUGE amount of money.

Don t forget the "adjustment sessions", threats made by the army and people anti-coup disappearing....

We all know what is looming and why the army and people at the top wish to keep the country in hand, awaiting this event in fear...and from what i see the dear Generalissimo don't use the correct methods...threats, corruption and coercion never work too long in this time of mass social media..

What make me sad also is most of the "pro coup" are proud to be a "je suis Charlie" or praise the Ukrainian "revolution"....

[Robby nz]

Maybe you can feel quite upset if EACH TIME you win an election, the army step in to put someone they want instead....for more than 15 years.....

Whatever you said mate it was a violent crackdown on protesters who were ready to fight yes, but who didn't start the live rounds days.

Why some areas were live rounds while other not?

Why the general in charge do not sit with Suthep or Abhisit?

Why there is still not any clear explanation from the Army about the temple shooting?

Why the journalist families who were shoot by the army still don t have any answer?

It is not like the army here has an history of non violence....

Each time there was a government elected in Thailand which didn t suit the "elite/army/above" it was removed in a way or another...

I have said in the past, I was a supporter of Thaksin and was very happy to see him win. He won two terms in a row. So its not "EACH TIME", he could very much have held office if it were not for his corruption and people fed up with his brazen moves regarding his self interest and business.

Wow we are back at the "live round days" again, I say red shirts threw grenades and shot up pro dem businesses, you say soldiers used live rounds. Which came first you tell me.

"Why some areas were live rounds while other not?"

I'm pretty sure the whole city became a live round zone, but its mostly concentrated at Silom and Ratchaprasong because that is were the main red shirt camp is.

"Why the general in charge do not sit with Suthep or Abhisit?"

I don't know what you mean by it, either way they are different organization, why would he sit with Suthep and Abhisit?

"Why there is still not any clear explanation from the Army about the temple shooting?"

Do I really have to repeat why the Army did not give a clear explanation? Its like asking why Yingluck refuse to release Rice Scheme figures for two years, asking Thaksin to clear up his corruption charge. Either way NACC did find that soldiers were responsible for most of the deaths and that is why Suthep and Abhisit has to report in pending a trial. No need to debate if anything will happen or not yet.

"Why the journalist families who were shoot by the army still don t have any answer?"

Based on investigations last year, they do have an answer of which direction the shooting most likely came from, it was most likely from the soldiers side. Who shot who we will never know. Again no need to debate as it will be a dead end road.

"Maybe you can feel quite upset if EACH TIME you win an election, the army step in to put someone they want instead....for more than 15 years....."

"Each time there was a government elected in Thailand which didn t suit the "elite/army/above" it was removed in a way or another.."

Do I have to remind you TRT/PTP has been in the office for the better part of the decade? So your statement is completely false and you have no clue about Thai politics other than the red propaganda you've been reading or someone is telling you!

Yes I do feel upset that TRT/PTP can win election after election while making false promises and continuing to put farmers in more debt. Lying to the public and coming up with schemes that are not sustainable, and bold enough to flaunt it. I'm more than happy to debate about Populist Policies and Schemes.

All of your questions can be answered if you have kept up to date with the news. It seems like you are stuck on the mind set of "anti coup", coup is bad, many people get killed and not aware of the events that have happened. Honestly, without change like this, the country will always be corrupt with no one following the laws.

You re obviously didn t follow the politics and still think the junta do this for the wellness of thai citizen.

The army do this for the few at the top.

What upset me the most is that Suthep/Prayout supporters still think thai people are stupid and would have voted again for Yingluck after getting bankrupt because of the rice scheme....

Even without the army the poll showed she was in a bad situation.

Don t forget the army corrpution, much more silent but believe me really present and involving a HUGE amount of money.

Don t forget the "adjustment sessions", threats made by the army and people anti-coup disappearing....

We all know what is looming and why the army and people at the top wish to keep the country in hand, awaiting this event in fear...and from what i see the dear Generalissimo don't use the correct methods...threats, corruption and coercion never work too long in this time of mass social media..

What make me sad also is most of the "pro coup" are proud to be a "je suis Charlie" or praise the Ukrainian "revolution"....

That would have to be the silliest load of attempted diversion from the topic by a red supporting loser that has ever been posted on this site.

The topic is about Suthep presenting evidence of armed men in black who attacked not only the army but the citizens of BKK.

Not to difficult a thing to do as there is plenty of it out there, and I would say he will have presented the NACC with a huge file of photos and videos.

[mike324]

in my country, if the army did what they did in Thailand, the generals would be arrested and tried for treason.

In lots of countries the first grenade attacks would already have seen dedicated police forces set up concentrating on those terrorists firing those grenades.

Anyway I believe that in your country which I think is the USA the National Guard, the FBI and some other organisations would have been called to neutralise the terrorists. Under the Homeland Security Act some people might have been arrested for a while and be interrogated with prejudice. With the blessing of the President, Congress and a larger part of the American population.

So, Men-in-black, UDD, responsibility and a few flying pigs.

Its funny how pro-red supporters keep on skipping over the cause, but just focus on the reaction. That is whats wrong with the society as a whole, people don't reflect at themselves or their group to see what they have done wrong, instead they break the law and continue to point fingers at the other side when they are being reprimanded or confronted. Its a vicious cycle.

To address the issue of PAD from 2008, just because I am anti-red does not mean I supported all of the PADs action. I said the same remarks with PAD protests too, they had a violent element carrying guns. ping pong ball bombs, tried to light up a gas tanker in the city. All these people should be in jail.

As for the PDRC protests in 2013, it was relative peaceful. No fireworks, guns, or bombs. The only big incident was at Laksi, and even Suthep admitted that a PDRC protesters was involved. Protesters from both sides shot at each other. Do I need to remind people the number of times PDRC rally sites were bombed during those couple of months too? Why is it always the anti-red being bombed?

How many pro-red supporters will dare admit some of the UDD protesters should be in jail to? that some are violent and dangerous? If pro-reds here want whats good for the country, you better start admitting fault too!

[rubl]

in my country, if the army did what they did in Thailand, the generals would be arrested and tried for treason.

In lots of countries the first grenade attacks would already have seen dedicated police forces set up concentrating on those terrorists firing those grenades.

Anyway I believe that in your country which I think is the USA the National Guard, the FBI and some other organisations would have been called to neutralise the terrorists. Under the Homeland Security Act some people might have been arrested for a while and be interrogated with prejudice. With the blessing of the President, Congress and a larger part of the American population.

So, Men-in-black, UDD, responsibility and a few flying pigs.

Its funny how pro-red supporters keep on skipping over the cause, but just focus on the reaction. That is whats wrong with the society as a whole, people don't reflect at themselves or their group to see what they have done wrong, instead they break the law and continue to point fingers at the other side when they are being reprimanded or confronted. Its a vicious cycle.

To address the issue of PAD from 2008, just because I am anti-red does not mean I supported all of the PADs action. I said the same remarks with PAD protests too, they had a violent element carrying guns. ping pong ball bombs, tried to light up a gas tanker in the city. All these people should be in jail.

As for the PDRC protests in 2013, it was relative peaceful. No fireworks, guns, or bombs. The only big incident was at Laksi, and even Suthep admitted that a PDRC protesters was involved. Protesters from both sides shot at each other. Do I need to remind people the number of times PDRC rally sites were bombed during those couple of months too? Why is it always the anti-red being bombed?

How many pro-red supporters will dare admit some of the UDD protesters should be in jail to? that some are violent and dangerous? If pro-reds here want whats good for the country, you better start admitting fault too!

"I said the same remarks with PAD protests too, they had a violent element carrying guns. ping pong ball bombs, tried to light up a gas tanker in the city."

No problem , but the "gas tanker" part was on April 13th, 2009 and done by the protesters at that time, red-shirts UDD lead.

"Reporters saw two NGV cylinders on the trucks and the red-shirted protesters shouted that the flat residents there should leave immediately, prompting speculation that the protesters would explode the gas tanks."

http://english.sina.com/world/p/2009/0412/233353.html

[scorecard]

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Maybe you can feel quite upset if EACH TIME you win an election, the army step in to put someone they want instead....for more than 15 years.....

Whatever you said mate it was a violent crackdown on protesters who were ready to fight yes, but who didn't start the live rounds days.

Why some areas were live rounds while other not?

Why the general in charge do not sit with Suthep or Abhisit?

Why there is still not any clear explanation from the Army about the temple shooting?

Why the journalist families who were shoot by the army still don t have any answer?

It is not like the army here has an history of non violence....

Each time there was a government elected in Thailand which didn t suit the "elite/army/above" it was removed in a way or another...

I have said in the past, I was a supporter of Thaksin and was very happy to see him win. He won two terms in a row. So its not "EACH TIME", he could very much have held office if it were not for his corruption and people fed up with his brazen moves regarding his self interest and business.

Wow we are back at the "live round days" again, I say red shirts threw grenades and shot up pro dem businesses, you say soldiers used live rounds. Which came first you tell me.

"Why some areas were live rounds while other not?"

I'm pretty sure the whole city became a live round zone, but its mostly concentrated at Silom and Ratchaprasong because that is were the main red shirt camp is.

"Why the general in charge do not sit with Suthep or Abhisit?"

I don't know what you mean by it, either way they are different organization, why would he sit with Suthep and Abhisit?

"Why there is still not any clear explanation from the Army about the temple shooting?"

Do I really have to repeat why the Army did not give a clear explanation? Its like asking why Yingluck refuse to release Rice Scheme figures for two years, asking Thaksin to clear up his corruption charge. Either way NACC did find that soldiers were responsible for most of the deaths and that is why Suthep and Abhisit has to report in pending a trial. No need to debate if anything will happen or not yet.

"Why the journalist families who were shoot by the army still don t have any answer?"

Based on investigations last year, they do have an answer of which direction the shooting most likely came from, it was most likely from the soldiers side. Who shot who we will never know. Again no need to debate as it will be a dead end road.

"Maybe you can feel quite upset if EACH TIME you win an election, the army step in to put someone they want instead....for more than 15 years....."

"Each time there was a government elected in Thailand which didn t suit the "elite/army/above" it was removed in a way or another.."

Do I have to remind you TRT/PTP has been in the office for the better part of the decade? So your statement is completely false and you have no clue about Thai politics other than the red propaganda you've been reading or someone is telling you!

Yes I do feel upset that TRT/PTP can win election after election while making false promises and continuing to put farmers in more debt. Lying to the public and coming up with schemes that are not sustainable, and bold enough to flaunt it. I'm more than happy to debate about Populist Policies and Schemes.

All of your questions can be answered if you have kept up to date with the news. It seems like you are stuck on the mind set of "anti coup", coup is bad, many people get killed and not aware of the events that have happened. Honestly, without change like this, the country will always be corrupt with no one following the laws.

You re obviously didn t follow the politics and still think the junta do this for the wellness of thai citizen.

The army do this for the few at the top.

What upset me the most is that Suthep/Prayout supporters still think thai people are stupid and would have voted again for Yingluck after getting bankrupt because of the rice scheme....

Even without the army the poll showed she was in a bad situation.

Don t forget the army corrpution, much more silent but believe me really present and involving a HUGE amount of money.

Don t forget the "adjustment sessions", threats made by the army and people anti-coup disappearing....

We all know what is looming and why the army and people at the top wish to keep the country in hand, awaiting this event in fear...and from what i see the dear Generalissimo don't use the correct methods...threats, corruption and coercion never work too long in this time of mass social media..

What make me sad also is most of the "pro coup" are proud to be a "je suis Charlie" or praise the Ukrainian "revolution"....

"What upset me the most is that Suthep/Prayout supporters still think thai people are stupid and would have voted again for Yingluck after getting bankrupt because of the rice scheme....

Even without the army the poll showed she was in a bad situation."

Well there's a twist.

Actually it's not quite that simple.

The paymasters scaly immoral mob had already made quite good progress at setting up a dictatorship and even more to the point they had made very good progress at achieving an overall scenario whereby it would be impossible to remove them from office by elections.

So much for all their claims about protecting democracy. Now here I could claim they thought they could fool all the people...

[scorecard]

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Maybe you can feel quite upset if EACH TIME you win an election, the army step in to put someone they want instead....for more than 15 years.....

Whatever you said mate it was a violent crackdown on protesters who were ready to fight yes, but who didn't start the live rounds days.

Why some areas were live rounds while other not?

Why the general in charge do not sit with Suthep or Abhisit?

Why there is still not any clear explanation from the Army about the temple shooting?

Why the journalist families who were shoot by the army still don t have any answer?

It is not like the army here has an history of non violence....

Each time there was a government elected in Thailand which didn t suit the "elite/army/above" it was removed in a way or another...

I have said in the past, I was a supporter of Thaksin and was very happy to see him win. He won two terms in a row. So its not "EACH TIME", he could very much have held office if it were not for his corruption and people fed up with his brazen moves regarding his self interest and business.

Wow we are back at the "live round days" again, I say red shirts threw grenades and shot up pro dem businesses, you say soldiers used live rounds. Which came first you tell me.

"Why some areas were live rounds while other not?"

I'm pretty sure the whole city became a live round zone, but its mostly concentrated at Silom and Ratchaprasong because that is were the main red shirt camp is.

"Why the general in charge do not sit with Suthep or Abhisit?"

I don't know what you mean by it, either way they are different organization, why would he sit with Suthep and Abhisit?

"Why there is still not any clear explanation from the Army about the temple shooting?"

Do I really have to repeat why the Army did not give a clear explanation? Its like asking why Yingluck refuse to release Rice Scheme figures for two years, asking Thaksin to clear up his corruption charge. Either way NACC did find that soldiers were responsible for most of the deaths and that is why Suthep and Abhisit has to report in pending a trial. No need to debate if anything will happen or not yet.

"Why the journalist families who were shoot by the army still don t have any answer?"

Based on investigations last year, they do have an answer of which direction the shooting most likely came from, it was most likely from the soldiers side. Who shot who we will never know. Again no need to debate as it will be a dead end road.

"Maybe you can feel quite upset if EACH TIME you win an election, the army step in to put someone they want instead....for more than 15 years....."

"Each time there was a government elected in Thailand which didn t suit the "elite/army/above" it was removed in a way or another.."

Do I have to remind you TRT/PTP has been in the office for the better part of the decade? So your statement is completely false and you have no clue about Thai politics other than the red propaganda you've been reading or someone is telling you!

Yes I do feel upset that TRT/PTP can win election after election while making false promises and continuing to put farmers in more debt. Lying to the public and coming up with schemes that are not sustainable, and bold enough to flaunt it. I'm more than happy to debate about Populist Policies and Schemes.

All of your questions can be answered if you have kept up to date with the news. It seems like you are stuck on the mind set of "anti coup", coup is bad, many people get killed and not aware of the events that have happened. Honestly, without change like this, the country will always be corrupt with no one following the laws.

You re obviously didn t follow the politics and still think the junta do this for the wellness of thai citizen.

The army do this for the few at the top.

What upset me the most is that Suthep/Prayout supporters still think thai people are stupid and would have voted again for Yingluck after getting bankrupt because of the rice scheme....

Even without the army the poll showed she was in a bad situation.

Don t forget the army corrpution, much more silent but believe me really present and involving a HUGE amount of money.

Don t forget the "adjustment sessions", threats made by the army and people anti-coup disappearing....

We all know what is looming and why the army and people at the top wish to keep the country in hand, awaiting this event in fear...and from what i see the dear Generalissimo don't use the correct methods...threats, corruption and coercion never work too long in this time of mass social media..

What make me sad also is most of the "pro coup" are proud to be a "je suis Charlie" or praise the Ukrainian "revolution"....

Your post is full of numerous mistruths and twists.

You posted "What make me sad also is most of the "pro coup" are proud to be a "je suis Charlie" or praise the Ukrainian "revolution"...."

Please share an example of this. You can't, just your attempt at diversion.

[tbthailand]

in my country, if the army did what they did in Thailand, the generals would be arrested and tried for treason.

In lots of countries the first grenade attacks would already have seen dedicated police forces set up concentrating on those terrorists firing those grenades.

Anyway I believe that in your country which I think is the USA the National Guard, the FBI and some other organisations would have been called to neutralise the terrorists. Under the Homeland Security Act some people might have been arrested for a while and be interrogated with prejudice. With the blessing of the President, Congress and a larger part of the American population.

So, Men-in-black, UDD, responsibility and a few flying pigs.

Its funny how pro-red supporters keep on skipping over the cause, but just focus on the reaction. That is whats wrong with the society as a whole, people don't reflect at themselves or their group to see what they have done wrong, instead they break the law and continue to point fingers at the other side when they are being reprimanded or confronted. Its a vicious cycle.

To address the issue of PAD from 2008, just because I am anti-red does not mean I supported all of the PADs action. I said the same remarks with PAD protests too, they had a violent element carrying guns. ping pong ball bombs, tried to light up a gas tanker in the city. All these people should be in jail.

As for the PDRC protests in 2013, it was relative peaceful. No fireworks, guns, or bombs. The only big incident was at Laksi, and even Suthep admitted that a PDRC protesters was involved. Protesters from both sides shot at each other. Do I need to remind people the number of times PDRC rally sites were bombed during those couple of months too? Why is it always the anti-red being bombed?

How many pro-red supporters will dare admit some of the UDD protesters should be in jail to? that some are violent and dangerous? If pro-reds here want whats good for the country, you better start admitting fault too!

it's funny how junta-huggers keep skipping over the cause but just focus on the reaction.

See, because military dictatorships never bring reconciliation and peace. They bring "calm" through oppressive measures, but when military generals take power and manipulate politics, they create conflict. There are people who will react to dictatorships, oppression and anti-democratic elites.

You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction.

the military is the cause.

[Skywalker69]

I have a question or 2 for the Suthep supporters.

Did he give the green light to the military to use deadly force on the people?

When was the last time in your country did the Deputy PM with the ok of the PM give the green light to the military to use deadly force on protesters with a similar death toll and it was ok, justified, and no case to answer?,

Is there any equipment, tool, technology out there that is affective in combination that is NON-LEATHLE that could have cleared the protesters over the same time frame?

And lastly Just what is the maximum number of innocent protesters, emergency volunteer's, and journalist's deaths in ok or justifiable to use deadly force to put down the few violent radicals?

Now the challenge for the supporters for the masquerading monk is to answer each of the questions and not deflect, spin, or just BUT BUT BUT the man in Dubai drivel.

The order was to fire on armed people, very similar RoE to regular police, no armed people, no orders to authorize the use of live ammunition. Simple as that.

If you want to see how security forces respond to armed men firing back there are plenty of examples, latest I could refer to is the killing of three hostage takers in Paris earlier this year, or the killing of a gunman in Sydney not long ago, or going back some time I could refer to Waco, Texas, etc, etc... The point being is, you shoot at security forces, you become fair game. Again, simple as that.

Non-lethal means were tried before, that stopped when the MiB (and regular "Peaceful Protesters") started using live ammunition against security forces, and these "few violent radicals" were mingling freely among protesters, acting behind their barricades protected by their smokescreens. When you have people aiding and abetting criminals they become complicit to the crime. If on top of that they behave like imbeciles like the "Peaceful Protestors" in this video they have no-one to blame but themselves if they ended up getting shot:

Now you go behind a barricade and point a metal tube at soldiers that have been on the receiving end of M72 grenade attacks and see how well you fare, or do like the moron pretending to fire an automatic weapon after setting off a string of fireworks. Surprise surprise, one got shot, if it wasn't their intention they surely did out of sheer stupidity every single possible thing to get an "Unnarmed Protestor" shot at.

By the way, take note of the child being used to set off the launching tube that, again, could be very easily taken for the barrel of a grenade launcher. If that kid would had ended up death whose fault would it had been?

You want to see what become of the attempts to use non-lethal means? at 0:43, that thing the guy is using to fire rockets is the nozzle from a water cannon truck dismantled by the "Peaceful Protestors".

[mike324]

in my country, if the army did what they did in Thailand, the generals would be arrested and tried for treason.

In lots of countries the first grenade attacks would already have seen dedicated police forces set up concentrating on those terrorists firing those grenades.

Anyway I believe that in your country which I think is the USA the National Guard, the FBI and some other organisations would have been called to neutralise the terrorists. Under the Homeland Security Act some people might have been arrested for a while and be interrogated with prejudice. With the blessing of the President, Congress and a larger part of the American population.

So, Men-in-black, UDD, responsibility and a few flying pigs.

Its funny how pro-red supporters keep on skipping over the cause, but just focus on the reaction. That is whats wrong with the society as a whole, people don't reflect at themselves or their group to see what they have done wrong, instead they break the law and continue to point fingers at the other side when they are being reprimanded or confronted. Its a vicious cycle.

To address the issue of PAD from 2008, just because I am anti-red does not mean I supported all of the PADs action. I said the same remarks with PAD protests too, they had a violent element carrying guns. ping pong ball bombs, tried to light up a gas tanker in the city. All these people should be in jail.

As for the PDRC protests in 2013, it was relative peaceful. No fireworks, guns, or bombs. The only big incident was at Laksi, and even Suthep admitted that a PDRC protesters was involved. Protesters from both sides shot at each other. Do I need to remind people the number of times PDRC rally sites were bombed during those couple of months too? Why is it always the anti-red being bombed?

How many pro-red supporters will dare admit some of the UDD protesters should be in jail to? that some are violent and dangerous? If pro-reds here want whats good for the country, you better start admitting fault too!

"I said the same remarks with PAD protests too, they had a violent element carrying guns. ping pong ball bombs, tried to light up a gas tanker in the city."

No problem , but the "gas tanker" part was on April 13th, 2009 and done by the protesters at that time, red-shirts UDD lead.

"Reporters saw two NGV cylinders on the trucks and the red-shirted protesters shouted that the flat residents there should leave immediately, prompting speculation that the protesters would explode the gas tanks."

http://english.sina.com/world/p/2009/0412/233353.html

Yup, I remember the UDD incident clearly. Thought PAD had a similar incident, may need to try to find it.

[rubl]

in my country, if the army did what they did in Thailand, the generals would be arrested and tried for treason.

In lots of countries the first grenade attacks would already have seen dedicated police forces set up concentrating on those terrorists firing those grenades.

Anyway I believe that in your country which I think is the USA the National Guard, the FBI and some other organisations would have been called to neutralise the terrorists. Under the Homeland Security Act some people might have been arrested for a while and be interrogated with prejudice. With the blessing of the President, Congress and a larger part of the American population.

So, Men-in-black, UDD, responsibility and a few flying pigs.

Its funny how pro-red supporters keep on skipping over the cause, but just focus on the reaction. That is whats wrong with the society as a whole, people don't reflect at themselves or their group to see what they have done wrong, instead they break the law and continue to point fingers at the other side when they are being reprimanded or confronted. Its a vicious cycle.

To address the issue of PAD from 2008, just because I am anti-red does not mean I supported all of the PADs action. I said the same remarks with PAD protests too, they had a violent element carrying guns. ping pong ball bombs, tried to light up a gas tanker in the city. All these people should be in jail.

As for the PDRC protests in 2013, it was relative peaceful. No fireworks, guns, or bombs. The only big incident was at Laksi, and even Suthep admitted that a PDRC protesters was involved. Protesters from both sides shot at each other. Do I need to remind people the number of times PDRC rally sites were bombed during those couple of months too? Why is it always the anti-red being bombed?

How many pro-red supporters will dare admit some of the UDD protesters should be in jail to? that some are violent and dangerous? If pro-reds here want whats good for the country, you better start admitting fault too!

it's funny how junta-huggers keep skipping over the cause but just focus on the reaction.

See, because military dictatorships never bring reconciliation and peace. They bring "calm" through oppressive measures, but when military generals take power and manipulate politics, they create conflict. There are people who will react to dictatorships, oppression and anti-democratic elites.

You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction.

the military is the cause.

Absolutely!

Thaksin wanted his power back, his business opportunities and money. Therefore we needed the UDD to protests against 'the others'.

So, blackshirts, UDD, and denial, obfuscation, distractions, anything to help prevent the truth about heavily armed militants as part of Thaksin's strategy to regain power to come out.

Edited April 25, 2015 by rubl

[tbthailand]

In lots of countries the first grenade attacks would already have seen dedicated police forces set up concentrating on those terrorists firing those grenades.

Anyway I believe that in your country which I think is the USA the National Guard, the FBI and some other organisations would have been called to neutralise the terrorists. Under the Homeland Security Act some people might have been arrested for a while and be interrogated with prejudice. With the blessing of the President, Congress and a larger part of the American population.

So, Men-in-black, UDD, responsibility and a few flying pigs.

Its funny how pro-red supporters keep on skipping over the cause, but just focus on the reaction. That is whats wrong with the society as a whole, people don't reflect at themselves or their group to see what they have done wrong, instead they break the law and continue to point fingers at the other side when they are being reprimanded or confronted. Its a vicious cycle.

To address the issue of PAD from 2008, just because I am anti-red does not mean I supported all of the PADs action. I said the same remarks with PAD protests too, they had a violent element carrying guns. ping pong ball bombs, tried to light up a gas tanker in the city. All these people should be in jail.

As for the PDRC protests in 2013, it was relative peaceful. No fireworks, guns, or bombs. The only big incident was at Laksi, and even Suthep admitted that a PDRC protesters was involved. Protesters from both sides shot at each other. Do I need to remind people the number of times PDRC rally sites were bombed during those couple of months too? Why is it always the anti-red being bombed?

How many pro-red supporters will dare admit some of the UDD protesters should be in jail to? that some are violent and dangerous? If pro-reds here want whats good for the country, you better start admitting fault too!

it's funny how junta-huggers keep skipping over the cause but just focus on the reaction.

See, because military dictatorships never bring reconciliation and peace. They bring "calm" through oppressive measures, but when military generals take power and manipulate politics, they create conflict. There are people who will react to dictatorships, oppression and anti-democratic elites.

You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction.

the military is the cause.

Absolutely!

Thaksin wanted his power back, his business opportunities and money. Therefore we needed the UDD to protests against 'the others'.

So, blackshirts, UDD, and denial, obfuscation, distractions, anything to help prevent the truth about heavily armed militants as part of Thaksin's strategy to regain power to come out.

the roar of the troll...

[rubl]

It's funny how junta-huggers keep skipping over the cause but just focus on the reaction.

See, because military dictatorships never bring reconciliation and peace. They bring "calm" through oppressive measures, but when military generals take power and manipulate politics, they create conflict. There are people who will react to dictatorships, oppression and anti-democratic elites.

You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction.

the military is the cause.

Absolutely!

Thaksin wanted his power back, his business opportunities and money. Therefore we needed the UDD to protests against 'the others'.

So, blackshirts, UDD, and denial, obfuscation, distractions, anything to help prevent the truth about heavily armed militants as part of Thaksin's strategy to regain power to come out.

the roar of the troll...

The obfuscation by the Master himself, 2011-06-15

"SPIEGEL: What about the allegations that you paid Red Shirt demonstrators to take to the streets last year?

Thaksin: You can't pay anyone to go out and get shot at. That's nonsense. In any case, I have less than half as much money as I had at the start of the 1990s; barely a billion. A little is left over from the sale of my soccer club, Manchester City. So it is not true that I enriched myself. In fact, I was robbed.

SPIEGEL: So you don't bankroll the Pheu Thai Party, the political home of the Red Shirts?

Thaksin: No. I have friends who do that. I can't even transfer any money from over here. But don't underestimate the willingness of ordinary Thais to donate money."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-interview-with-thaksin-shinawatra-thailand-must-be-united-again-a-768492.html

[mike324]

it's funny how junta-huggers keep skipping over the cause but just focus on the reaction.

See, because military dictatorships never bring reconciliation and peace. They bring "calm" through oppressive measures, but when military generals take power and manipulate politics, they create conflict. There are people who will react to dictatorships, oppression and anti-democratic elites.

You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction.

the military is the cause.

Its funny how the only thing you can talk about is coup and generals, you can't even bring up a finger to type about why the coup happen, its always the same generic statement "hold on to power", "elite" blah blah blah. I have yet to hear you admit that UDD were violent and should be held responsible for the crimes they commit.

"You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction."

No, you are not going far back enough. The cause: Corrupt Politician, The Reaction: Protest follow by coups. You are still focusing on the reaction instead of the cause. By wasting your time arguing about the Reaction, what have you solve? NOTHING!

So who was in office for two consecutive terms before citzens started protesting? The army has been relative quiet in the 90s and early 2000s. Again you keep on talking about Anti-Coup, as a reaction of the coup. Why was there a coup? because citizens protested, politicains held on to power and will not allow investigations when they are confronted with corruption charges. This is the conflict! The army did not create the conflict, corrupt politicians did. So why don't we start talking about how to make these politicians abide by the law? As long as we have corrupt politicans who refuse to be transparent, lie, and does not allow investigation to be initiated, there will be a coup in Thailand. If you don't want a coup, start following the law and actually make it mean something. Following the law seems to be the biggest roadblock and root of all the problems here.

If the General threw a coup for no good reason, then yes I will stand by you and criticize the general, but its not the case here. I have a few negative things to say about how the General is running the country in regards to election and new laws they are pushing for. But we will save that for another thread. But as a whole we are moving forward on the law enforcement part, its a positive change. Police are less corrupt and politicians are watching their backs.

Edited April 25, 2015 by mike324

[tbthailand]

It's funny how junta-huggers keep skipping over the cause but just focus on the reaction.

See, because military dictatorships never bring reconciliation and peace. They bring "calm" through oppressive measures, but when military generals take power and manipulate politics, they create conflict. There are people who will react to dictatorships, oppression and anti-democratic elites.

You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction.

the military is the cause.

Absolutely!

Thaksin wanted his power back, his business opportunities and money. Therefore we needed the UDD to protests against 'the others'.

So, blackshirts, UDD, and denial, obfuscation, distractions, anything to help prevent the truth about heavily armed militants as part of Thaksin's strategy to regain power to come out.

the roar of the troll...

The obfuscation by the Master himself, 2011-06-15

"SPIEGEL: What about the allegations that you paid Red Shirt demonstrators to take to the streets last year?

Thaksin: You can't pay anyone to go out and get shot at. That's nonsense. In any case, I have less than half as much money as I had at the start of the 1990s; barely a billion. A little is left over from the sale of my soccer club, Manchester City. So it is not true that I enriched myself. In fact, I was robbed.

SPIEGEL: So you don't bankroll the Pheu Thai Party, the political home of the Red Shirts?

Thaksin: No. I have friends who do that. I can't even transfer any money from over here. But don't underestimate the willingness of ordinary Thais to donate money."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-interview-with-thaksin-shinawatra-thailand-must-be-united-again-a-768492.html

more trolling - you can't help yourself, can you?

for you and others, it's all about Thaksin.

that's simple bs.

[tbthailand]

it's funny how junta-huggers keep skipping over the cause but just focus on the reaction.

See, because military dictatorships never bring reconciliation and peace. They bring "calm" through oppressive measures, but when military generals take power and manipulate politics, they create conflict. There are people who will react to dictatorships, oppression and anti-democratic elites.

You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction.

the military is the cause.

Its funny how the only thing you can talk about is coup and generals, you can't even bring up a finger to type about why the coup happen, its always the same generic statement "hold on to power", "elite" blah blah blah. I have yet to hear you admit that UDD were violent and should be held responsible for the crimes they commit.

"You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction."

No, you are not going far back enough. The cause: Corrupt Politician, The Reaction: Protest follow by coups. You are still focusing on the reaction instead of the cause. By wasting your time arguing about the Reaction, what have you solve? NOTHING!

So who was in office for two consecutive terms before citzens started protesting? The army has been relative quiet in the 90s and early 2000s. Again you keep on talking about Anti-Coup, as a reaction of the coup. Why was there a coup? because citizens protested, politicains held on to power and will not allow investigations when they are confronted with corruption charges. This is the conflict! The army did not create the conflict, corrupt politicians did. So why don't we start talking about how to make these politicians abide by the law? As long as we have corrupt politicans who refuse to be transparent, lie, and does not allow investigation to be initiated, there will be a coup in Thailand. If you don't want a coup, start following the law and actually make it mean something. Following the law seems to be the biggest roadblock and root of all the problems here.

If the General threw a coup for no good reason, then yes I will stand by you and criticize the general, but its not the case here. I have a few negative things to say about how the General is running the country in regards to election and new laws they are pushing for. But we will save that for another thread. But as a whole we are moving forward on the law enforcement part, its a positive change. Police are less corrupt and politicians are watching their backs.

ah, another poster who doesn't pay attention....

As for violence:

I have stated repeatedly that there was violence from both sides of the protesters and I have stated many times that I do not support the violence. I have never denied the existence of the MIB in 2010 nor have I ever denied the presence of navy guards at PDRC protests. I don't condone red shirts shooting off RPGs any more than I condone the PDRC firing the same.

I also don't condone the military killing Thai citizens (and others). And I do recognize that the military have been doing the lion's share of the killing.

As for reasons for the coup:

There are a couple of obvious reasons for the coup in 2014. None of which can be discussed in detail as you certainly know. But the underlying forces which have been behind every coup of a democratically elected government in Thailand I can think of have been the same and that is simply the desire of the military/elite alliance to maintain control of the country and to profit from that control. There are many anti-democratic forces in Thailand and they are very powerful.

Another way to look at it is this. All the Thai coups, attempted or successful, have essentially been infighting among the elites and/or the generals. Recall that General Prem - hardly the leader of a democracy - had to survive more than one coup attempt. Even the coup that tossed out Thaksin was a fight between elite/military factions. Crushing democracy and stealing the right of self-determination from the Thai people is not the objective, it is a side-affect. When the generals and elites throw their respective toys out of the pram, democracy is the victim, but not the target.

Excuses for coups:

The army has always used 'corrupt politicians' as one of the justifications for their coups. Not just in this century. And there have always been corrupt politicians to blame. There have also always been corrupt generals. But generals, not politicians in Thailand hold the reins of power.

Reactions vs causes:

It doesn't matter if you look at 2009 and 2010 or if you look at 1976, it is NEVER the military reacting to the actions of the people (much less the politicians), but the people who react to the actions of the military. Cause and effect. Basic. The generals do what they want with impunity. The people have no control, but they have a choice of how they respond. In 2009 and 2010, the protests were a response to the generals stealing yet another elected government. It is certainly not the case that the cause was a corrupt politician named Thaksin and the reaction was a coup by the Eastern Tigers...

your closing:

well, clearly I don't agree with your last paragraph at all. The dear general trigger his coup for his own reasons, but I hardly see it as being for the good of Thailand. As for police corruption being less, the top cop appointed by the General has declared assets of nearly 400 million bhat - that looks more like a hatchet man than a corruption killer. And politicians haven't been just watching their backs, many have been driven out of Thailand. There is a purge going on if you haven't noticed. That is not about 'good government' or 'reform', that is just about political vengeance...

[halloween]

As for violence:

I have stated repeatedly that there was violence from both sides of the protesters and I have stated many times that I do not support the violence. I have never denied the existence of the MIB in 2010 nor have I ever denied the presence of navy guards at PDRC protests. I don't condone red shirts shooting off RPGs any more than I condone the PDRC firing the same.

(snipped for brevity and topic relevance.).

How nice of you to not condone the PDRC firing RPGs - but have they ever done that? Could you spare a little condemnation for those who did?

[rubl]

Absolutely!

Thaksin wanted his power back, his business opportunities and money. Therefore we needed the UDD to protests against 'the others'.

So, blackshirts, UDD, and denial, obfuscation, distractions, anything to help prevent the truth about heavily armed militants as part of Thaksin's strategy to regain power to come out.

the roar of the troll...

The obfuscation by the Master himself, 2011-06-15

"SPIEGEL: What about the allegations that you paid Red Shirt demonstrators to take to the streets last year?

Thaksin: You can't pay anyone to go out and get shot at. That's nonsense. In any case, I have less than half as much money as I had at the start of the 1990s; barely a billion. A little is left over from the sale of my soccer club, Manchester City. So it is not true that I enriched myself. In fact, I was robbed.

SPIEGEL: So you don't bankroll the Pheu Thai Party, the political home of the Red Shirts?

Thaksin: No. I have friends who do that. I can't even transfer any money from over here. But don't underestimate the willingness of ordinary Thais to donate money."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-interview-with-thaksin-shinawatra-thailand-must-be-united-again-a-768492.html

more trolling - you can't help yourself, can you?

for you and others, it's all about Thaksin.

that's simple bs.

Terrible sorry if this offends you, but since the topic is "MiB" , 2010 and so, it's unavoidable to mention Thaksin. I would like to forget about him, but in relation to this topic that's difficult.

BTW accusations that others think its all about Thaksin really fits your 'idee fixe' that its all about the Army. It must be comforting to blank out inconvenient truths.

[rubl]

it's funny how junta-huggers keep skipping over the cause but just focus on the reaction.

See, because military dictatorships never bring reconciliation and peace. They bring "calm" through oppressive measures, but when military generals take power and manipulate politics, they create conflict. There are people who will react to dictatorships, oppression and anti-democratic elites.

You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction.

the military is the cause.

Its funny how the only thing you can talk about is coup and generals, you can't even bring up a finger to type about why the coup happen, its always the same generic statement "hold on to power", "elite" blah blah blah. I have yet to hear you admit that UDD were violent and should be held responsible for the crimes they commit.

"You see, the anti-coup movement is a reaction. 2009 and 2010 were a reaction."

No, you are not going far back enough. The cause: Corrupt Politician, The Reaction: Protest follow by coups. You are still focusing on the reaction instead of the cause. By wasting your time arguing about the Reaction, what have you solve? NOTHING!

So who was in office for two consecutive terms before citzens started protesting? The army has been relative quiet in the 90s and early 2000s. Again you keep on talking about Anti-Coup, as a reaction of the coup. Why was there a coup? because citizens protested, politicains held on to power and will not allow investigations when they are confronted with corruption charges. This is the conflict! The army did not create the conflict, corrupt politicians did. So why don't we start talking about how to make these politicians abide by the law? As long as we have corrupt politicans who refuse to be transparent, lie, and does not allow investigation to be initiated, there will be a coup in Thailand. If you don't want a coup, start following the law and actually make it mean something. Following the law seems to be the biggest roadblock and root of all the problems here.

If the General threw a coup for no good reason, then yes I will stand by you and criticize the general, but its not the case here. I have a few negative things to say about how the General is running the country in regards to election and new laws they are pushing for. But we will save that for another thread. But as a whole we are moving forward on the law enforcement part, its a positive change. Police are less corrupt and politicians are watching their backs.

ah, another poster who doesn't pay attention....

As for violence:

I have stated repeatedly that there was violence from both sides of the protesters and I have stated many times that I do not support the violence. I have never denied the existence of the MIB in 2010 nor have I ever denied the presence of navy guards at PDRC protests. I don't condone red shirts shooting off RPGs any more than I condone the PDRC firing the same.

I also don't condone the military killing Thai citizens (and others). And I do recognize that the military have been doing the lion's share of the killing.

As for reasons for the coup:

There are a couple of obvious reasons for the coup in 2014. None of which can be discussed in detail as you certainly know. But the underlying forces which have been behind every coup of a democratically elected government in Thailand I can think of have been the same and that is simply the desire of the military/elite alliance to maintain control of the country and to profit from that control. There are many anti-democratic forces in Thailand and they are very powerful.

Another way to look at it is this. All the Thai coups, attempted or successful, have essentially been infighting among the elites and/or the generals. Recall that General Prem - hardly the leader of a democracy - had to survive more than one coup attempt. Even the coup that tossed out Thaksin was a fight between elite/military factions. Crushing democracy and stealing the right of self-determination from the Thai people is not the objective, it is a side-affect. When the generals and elites throw their respective toys out of the pram, democracy is the victim, but not the target.

Excuses for coups:

The army has always used 'corrupt politicians' as one of the justifications for their coups. Not just in this century. And there have always been corrupt politicians to blame. There have also always been corrupt generals. But generals, not politicians in Thailand hold the reins of power.

Reactions vs causes:

It doesn't matter if you look at 2009 and 2010 or if you look at 1976, it is NEVER the military reacting to the actions of the people (much less the politicians), but the people who react to the actions of the military. Cause and effect. Basic. The generals do what they want with impunity. The people have no control, but they have a choice of how they respond. In 2009 and 2010, the protests were a response to the generals stealing yet another elected government. It is certainly not the case that the cause was a corrupt politician named Thaksin and the reaction was a coup by the Eastern Tigers...

your closing:

well, clearly I don't agree with your last paragraph at all. The dear general trigger his coup for his own reasons, but I hardly see it as being for the good of Thailand. As for police corruption being less, the top cop appointed by the General has declared assets of nearly 400 million bhat - that looks more like a hatchet man than a corruption killer. And politicians haven't been just watching their backs, many have been driven out of Thailand. There is a purge going on if you haven't noticed. That is not about 'good government' or 'reform', that is just about political vengeance...

and in the mean time others discuss the topic which has Suthep submitting evidence of MiB. I can only hope it's a bit more than what we've been told by various reporters and journalists. Too many like to doubt the press, try to talk down 'evidence', or simply ignore, distract.

[tbthailand]

As for violence:

I have stated repeatedly that there was violence from both sides of the protesters and I have stated many times that I do not support the violence. I have never denied the existence of the MIB in 2010 nor have I ever denied the presence of navy guards at PDRC protests. I don't condone red shirts shooting off RPGs any more than I condone the PDRC firing the same.

(snipped for brevity and topic relevance.).

How nice of you to not condone the PDRC firing RPGs - but have they ever done that? Could you spare a little condemnation for those who did?

I have already "spared a little condemnation for those who did", as you state with tongue in cheek.

Now, I always figured that you were unaware of current events.

Remember back when the royalist courts prohibited the government from using basic means of crowd control against the PDRC protesters because they were "peaceful"?

As a note, the yellow courts did something similar in 2006.

Oddly enough, they didn't do that in 2010...

Well, now, that ruling was made right after a confrontation between police and protesters. Here are a couple of links for you...

after Tuesday's violence, in which four protesters and one police officer were killed in a gun and grenade attack after police attempted to remove demonstrators from protest sites,

or this report:

A Human Rights Watch researcher told VOA that militants had M79 grenade launchers and were firing at police.

[rubl]

As for violence:

I have stated repeatedly that there was violence from both sides of the protesters and I have stated many times that I do not support the violence. I have never denied the existence of the MIB in 2010 nor have I ever denied the presence of navy guards at PDRC protests. I don't condone red shirts shooting off RPGs any more than I condone the PDRC firing the same.

(snipped for brevity and topic relevance.).

How nice of you to not condone the PDRC firing RPGs - but have they ever done that? Could you spare a little condemnation for those who did?

I have already "spared a little condemnation for those who did", as you state with tongue in cheek.

Now, I always figured that you were unaware of current events.

Remember back when the royalist courts prohibited the government from using basic means of crowd control against the PDRC protesters because they were "peaceful"?

As a note, the yellow courts did something similar in 2006.

Oddly enough, they didn't do that in 2010...

Well, now, that ruling was made right after a confrontation between police and protesters. Here are a couple of links for you...

after Tuesday's violence, in which four protesters and one police officer were killed in a gun and grenade attack after police attempted to remove demonstrators from protest sites,

or this report:

A Human Rights Watch researcher told VOA that militants had M79 grenade launchers and were firing at police.

Oddly enough, no grenades were fired at police or pro-government supporters in 2013/2014, only one IED was throw at the police with the officer courageously kicking the device away. Lots of real grenades lobbed on anti-government protesters, mostly cowardly in the night, although an IOD was thrown in the crowed when Suthep marched past. Only one or two killed, but that's normal when 'democracy lovers' get annoyed.

Anyway, the topic is 2010 with lots of real grenades lobbed at non-red-shirts. A topic to be avoided, ridiculed, distracted from, etc., etc.

[halloween]

As for violence:

I have stated repeatedly that there was violence from both sides of the protesters and I have stated many times that I do not support the violence. I have never denied the existence of the MIB in 2010 nor have I ever denied the presence of navy guards at PDRC protests. I don't condone red shirts shooting off RPGs any more than I condone the PDRC firing the same.

(snipped for brevity and topic relevance.).

How nice of you to not condone the PDRC firing RPGs - but have they ever done that? Could you spare a little condemnation for those who did?

I have already "spared a little condemnation for those who did", as you state with tongue in cheek.

Now, I always figured that you were unaware of current events.

Remember back when the royalist courts prohibited the government from using basic means of crowd control against the PDRC protesters because they were "peaceful"?

As a note, the yellow courts did something similar in 2006.

Oddly enough, they didn't do that in 2010...

Well, now, that ruling was made right after a confrontation between police and protesters. Here are a couple of links for you...

after Tuesday's violence, in which four protesters and one police officer were killed in a gun and grenade attack after police attempted to remove demonstrators from protest sites,

or this report:

A Human Rights Watch researcher told VOA that militants had M79 grenade launchers and were firing at police.

So you don't know what an RPG looks like? FYI http://www.thespecialistsltd.com/rpg-7

And the best you can do to sustain your lie is to come up with an unconfirmed report of a sighting of a different, and far less formidable, weapon with no evidence that it was ever used.

The little condemnation you have given us is hard to find (link please) while you continue to condemn the military for the inevitable violence when "peaceful protesters" use weapons such as this against civilian targets. Even to the extent of falsely accusing others of using the same weapon.