UK Tax Self - Assessment. Do you complete it online from LOS?

[johnnybgood]

Just received my first payment of my uk company pension.

Every silver lining has a cloud. i.e. HMRC.

Now for the first time in a dozen years of living here in LOS I'll have to do a tax return.

I've just found out it can be done online (my blissful ignorance).

Can anyone tell me..........

How many years have these tax forms been available to complete online?

Do expats have to print off and post the forms?

Has this system always been available for expats?

thanks

[williewolf]

I do my self assessment online and have done for a few years now. First though you have to set up a "government gateway" account. They send you by post a username and then a password by post ( I did this in the UK so not sure about here) You then have access to a number of government services. If you go to the self assessment website it will guide you through the process. Your tax is also automatically calculated so you know how much to pay. This is also done online

[johnnybgood]

Thanks ww

I'm just piecing it all together now...........

I googled the wrong website yesterday (turned out to be an agency / scam or something).

Now I'm using the official site.

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-forms-and-helpsheets

[Eff1n2ret]

I do my self assessment online and have done for a few years now. First though you have to set up a "government gateway" account. They send you by post a username and then a password by post ( I did this in the UK so not sure about here) You then have access to a number of government services. If you go to the self assessment website it will guide you through the process. Your tax is also automatically calculated so you know how much to pay. This is also done online

+1

I registered from here in Thailand after the paper form they send out went astray one year and I nearly got fined for a late submission. It is important to allow several weeks for the registration process, this being the time the username/password may take to come throught the post - so don't leave registering until January. (Paper returns have to be submitted by 31st October, online by the following Jan31st.)

I've found the system very user-friendly, and as well as calculating tax due, if you are due a rebate it will be credited to your account very quickly. Last year I racked up a rebate of 1200 quid because of maintenance carried out on my rented property. It was in my account within one week of making the return.

I wish the 'government gateway' system could be used for such things as voting in elections.

[billd766]

I too have been doing it online for many years and I got my gateway user name and password (2 separate items) through the post here in Thailand.

Be aware that

1 HMRC do not check your assessment so if you get it wrong they will work only on your data and you will get a wrong tax code. You have to ring them up and they are very helpful and will correct your mistakes online with you.

2 If you have problems (and you will) putting in your post code in Thailand follow these instructions

Self assessment helpline no

005 0044 161 930 8445 online services helpdesk

005 0044 161 931 9070

For postcode problems

1. tab to postcode
2. click and Ctrl A (select all)
3. highlight the box
4. delete
5. problem solved

I used to have this problem for years until I was talking to the guy and suddenly had the bright idea to write down what he said.

[The Fat Controller]

I do mine online here in the UK and have logged on OK from Thailand too.

I have an agreement with the tax man that I do a form every year and pay a balancing payment at the end of January.

If you make a mistake you can amend the form right up until the required submission date and can view the calculation as well.

Cannot comment about refunds, I always owe them money

[AyG]

Uh? Surely as a resident here you need to complete the residency pages which can't be completed online using the HMRC website. (If you want to do it online you have to buy commercial software.)

And you can't mix paper return and online return.

[Eff1n2ret]

Uh? Surely as a resident here you need to complete the residency pages which can't be completed online using the HMRC website. (If you want to do it online you have to buy commercial software.)

And you can't mix paper return and online return.

There are certainly many online services which can't be accessed unless you can put in a UK postcode, but I don't recall having any difficulty in registering with my Thai address- but in the first instance you register with 'Government Gateway', not with HMRC.

[AyG]

Uh? Surely as a resident here you need to complete the residency pages which can't be completed online using the HMRC website. (If you want to do it online you have to buy commercial software.)

And you can't mix paper return and online return.

There are certainly many online services which can't be accessed unless you can put in a UK postcode, but I don't recall having any difficulty in registering with my Thai address- but in the first instance you register with 'Government Gateway', not with HMRC.

Perhaps I didn't word myself precisely enough. Nothing to do with registering. The online service does not support the residency pages (SA109). From this I concluded that all non-resident expats should either buy commercial software (which supports these pages), or file on paper.

(I actually find it ludicrous that HMRC doesn't support these pages for non-residents given that non-residents would benefit more from filing on-line than people living in the UK. I recently had to wait 4 1/2 months just to be told there was a problem with my return and that I had to resubmit. Doing it on-line would have taken a fraction of that time I'm sure.)

[lungbing]

For at least ten years I did my annual return online. After I retired and my income is all pensions which are taxed at source, I received a letter telling me I no longer needed to complete an annual return.

[Ricardo]

For at least ten years I did my annual return online. After I retired and my income is all pensions which are taxed at source, I received a letter telling me I no longer needed to complete an annual return.

Firstly, I'm a bit dubious that your government old-age-pension is "taxed at source", as I never heard they tax that at-source ?

And is there not a risk, if your various private-pensions are being taxed-at-source, that your personal-allowance is not being fully taken-into-account by any of them, and that you might be over-paying tax ? Which would not be reclaimed, until you do submit an annual-return ?

OK, if your total-income arising-within-the-UK is less-than your Personal Allowance, then you shouldn't need to make an annual-return, but then you wouldn't need to pay tax-at-source on your pensions ?

[Eff1n2ret]

For at least ten years I did my annual return online. After I retired and my income is all pensions which are taxed at source, I received a letter telling me I no longer needed to complete an annual return.

Firstly, I'm a bit dubious that your government old-age-pension is "taxed at source", as I never heard they tax that at-source ?

And is there not a risk, if your various private-pensions are being taxed-at-source, that your personal-allowance is not being fully taken-into-account by any of them, and that you might be over-paying tax ? Which would not be reclaimed, until you do submit an annual-return ?

OK, if your total-income arising-within-the-UK is less-than your Personal Allowance, then you shouldn't need to make an annual-return, but then you wouldn't need to pay tax-at-source on your pensions ?

The "old-age" pension is paid gross, but the amount is aggregated with one of your other pensions and tax due on both is paid after taking the annual allowance into account. Any other pensions are paid with the basic rate deducted. Seems to work ok.

Probably most pensioners don't have to submit a return because the tax is collected under the PAYE system. If, however, like me you have income from renting a property or from other sources they expect you to make a return, even though the rental income is paid net of 20% tax and the total doesn't push me into a higher tax bracket - but they don't know that unless I submit a self-assessment

[lungbing]

That's exactly what happens. My UK state pension is paid gross, but my main private pension uses a low tax-code in order to deduct the tax for both pensions. My third small, private pension has basic tax deducted. I have not filled in a tax return for 3 years now.

[dsfbrit]

I am non-resident living in Thailand and made the mistake of using the online system for a return some years ago to claim a tax refund and they thought I was living back in the UK as the online system is for UK residents only. I had to write quite a few letters to prove my non UK residence again and not have to pay tax on my assets offshore.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad

Sending a Self Assessment tax return

You can’t use HMRC’s online services to tell them about your income if you’re non-resident. Instead, you need to:

• send your tax return by post
• use software
• get help from a professional, eg an accountant

Fill in the ‘residence’ section (form SA109 if you’re sending it by post) to tellHMRC you’re non-resident. Fill in any sections relating to your type of income.

Edited April 27, 2015 by dsfbrit

[Ricardo]

For at least ten years I did my annual return online. After I retired and my income is all pensions which are taxed at source, I received a letter telling me I no longer needed to complete an annual return.

Firstly, I'm a bit dubious that your government old-age-pension is "taxed at source", as I never heard they tax that at-source ?

And is there not a risk, if your various private-pensions are being taxed-at-source, that your personal-allowance is not being fully taken-into-account by any of them, and that you might be over-paying tax ? Which would not be reclaimed, until you do submit an annual-return ?

OK, if your total-income arising-within-the-UK is less-than your Personal Allowance, then you shouldn't need to make an annual-return, but then you wouldn't need to pay tax-at-source on your pensions ?

The "old-age" pension is paid gross, but the amount is aggregated with one of your other pensions and tax due on both is paid after taking the annual allowance into account. Any other pensions are paid with the basic rate deducted. Seems to work ok.

Probably most pensioners don't have to submit a return because the tax is collected under the PAYE system. If, however, like me you have income from renting a property or from other sources they expect you to make a return, even though the rental income is paid net of 20% tax and the total doesn't push me into a higher tax bracket - but they don't know that unless I submit a self-assessment

Thanks, that's new (to me), and interesting to learn !

Presumably you must tell the private pension-provider what your government old-age allowance is, then ? I mean, how many years' credits you have, and now whether it's based-on 30 or 35-years, and the new or old pensions ?

I've recently re-worked my own numbers, and reckon that overall I'll be just-under the personal-allowance limit, so will need to get that across to my two small private-pension providers, when the day comes. More blasted paperwork ! I wish I could find some way to charge HMRC for doing their jobs for them !

[Eff1n2ret]

You can’t use HMRC’s online services to tell them about your income if you’re non-resident.

I'm not going to say that you're wrong, but obviously we've had different experiences - perhaps yours arises from the circumstances in which you first attempted to file online, or because of your offshore income, but I don't really know. All I can say is that I did set up my online self-assessment from my address in Thailand, which was already declared to HMRC, the process was entirely straightforward, and this will be my third year doing the self-assessment online. It seems, though, I have to phone them every year to amend my coding notice because they've automatically factored in an increase in the State Retirement Pension, which I don't get. That's not a big problem, usually I'm on the phone for less than a minute and they make the amendment on the spot.

[Eff1n2ret]

Presumably you must tell the private pension-provider what your government old-age allowance is, then ? I mean, how many years' credits you have, and now whether it's based-on 30 or 35-years, and the new or old pensions ?

I'm sorry, I can't remember how it was set up in the first place, but I don't think I had to inform my other pension providers about the state pension. Somehow the system picks it up automatically, or you have to inform HMRC about your other pension(s), but they'll tell you what to do when the time comes. Now every year I just get a coding notice which shows the personal allowance minus the state pension = x amount. This generates a tax code which the notice says will be passed to my pension provider xyz company who use it to deduct the correct amount of tax from their payment to me. As I have three other smaller annuities and pensions, they are just paid with 20% tax deducted.

[AyG]

You cant use HMRCs online services to tell them about your income if youre non-resident.

I'm not going to say that you're wrong, but obviously we've had different experiences - perhaps yours arises from the circumstances in which you first attempted to file online, or because of your offshore income, but I don't really know. All I can say is that I did set up my online self-assessment from my address in Thailand, which was already declared to HMRC, the process was entirely straightforward, and this will be my third year doing the self-assessment online. It seems, though, I have to phone them every year to amend my coding notice because they've automatically factored in an increase in the State Retirement Pension, which I don't get. That's not a big problem, usually I'm on the phone for less than a minute and they make the amendment on the spot.

There's no actual technical problem with creating an account and filing on-line from Thailand.

However, you will not be completing the SA109 form, so the return will be incomplete (unless you use third party software). It would appear that HMRC doesn't always pick up on this. It's also possible that you'll end up paying the wrong amount of tax (more likely too much, rather than too little).

[Eff1n2ret]

You cant use HMRCs online services to tell them about your income if youre non-resident.

I'm not going to say that you're wrong, but obviously we've had different experiences - perhaps yours arises from the circumstances in which you first attempted to file online, or because of your offshore income, but I don't really know. All I can say is that I did set up my online self-assessment from my address in Thailand, which was already declared to HMRC, the process was entirely straightforward, and this will be my third year doing the self-assessment online. It seems, though, I have to phone them every year to amend my coding notice because they've automatically factored in an increase in the State Retirement Pension, which I don't get. That's not a big problem, usually I'm on the phone for less than a minute and they make the amendment on the spot.

There's no actual technical problem with creating an account and filing on-line from Thailand.

However, you will not be completing the SA109 form, so the return will be incomplete (unless you use third party software). It would appear that HMRC doesn't always pick up on this. It's also possible that you'll end up paying the wrong amount of tax (more likely too much, rather than too little).

No, I've never completed an SA109, it doesn't seem to be necessary for pensioners whose only income is paid from the UK. "Remittance basis" etc doesn't arise, the tax is paid on exactly the same basis as anyone on PAYE.

[Orac]

Have been using Taxcalc software for many years and submitted online direct to HMRC. Was originally resident in UK but changed to non-resident a few years ago with no problems.

[billd766]

For at least ten years I did my annual return online. After I retired and my income is all pensions which are taxed at source, I received a letter telling me I no longer needed to complete an annual return.

Firstly, I'm a bit dubious that your government old-age-pension is "taxed at source", as I never heard they tax that at-source ?

And is there not a risk, if your various private-pensions are being taxed-at-source, that your personal-allowance is not being fully taken-into-account by any of them, and that you might be over-paying tax ? Which would not be reclaimed, until you do submit an annual-return ?

OK, if your total-income arising-within-the-UK is less-than your Personal Allowance, then you shouldn't need to make an annual-return, but then you wouldn't need to pay tax-at-source on your pensions ?

The "old-age" pension is paid gross, but the amount is aggregated with one of your other pensions and tax due on both is paid after taking the annual allowance into account. Any other pensions are paid with the basic rate deducted. Seems to work ok.

Probably most pensioners don't have to submit a return because the tax is collected under the PAYE system. If, however, like me you have income from renting a property or from other sources they expect you to make a return, even though the rental income is paid net of 20% tax and the total doesn't push me into a higher tax bracket - but they don't know that unless I submit a self-assessment

I get 3 pensions.

1 The state pension (I have told them it is frozen) is paid at the gross rate and as it under the tax threshold it is not taxed.

2 My private pension is taxed at the standard rate of 20% and that will always be so unless the standard rate of tax changes.

3 My Armed Forces pension is the one where the tax codes are changed. Between the 3 pensions I am over the tax threshold so HMRC takes my online declaration at its face value and taxes me at the standard rate on the difference between the remainder of my tax free personal allowance which is deducted from the gross Armed Forces pension. That is not what I mean.

For example and the figure are not correct for me.

The personal allowance is £10,600

State pension is £7,600

Military pension is £5,000

PA £10,600 - State £7,600 leaves a balance of £3,000

Military pension =£5,000 - £3,000 leave a balance of + £2,000

Tax is taken at 20% = £400 leaving a balance of £1,600

Therefore I would get £10,600 + £1,600 Total net of £12,200 over 12 months plus 80% of my private pension.

The figures are not correct for me personally but give a fair idea of how HMRC look at and tax you.

This is only for basic income. Any extra income such as house rentals, bank interest etc will also be taxable but you can also claim deductions against tax.

If your combined income exceeds the basic limits then you will be subjest to 20% tax on the balance between the personal allowance and the first tax threshold and more up to the next threshold etc. AFAIK this only applies to income deemed to have arised from UK sources.

I am not a tax expert but this is the way that I understand the situation.

[dsfbrit]

EFF1n2ret, AYG - I also used to submit my tax return online from LOS. This is the set of events that happened to me:-

- SInce I was 18 in 1972, I was 'chosen' to be required to fill out a Self Assessment each year.

- I moved to Thailand in 2003, but still had a UK address and had all my cash savings in Onshore UK accounts and was still a UK resident for tax purposes

- At that time I was 50 and decided to take one of my UK company pensions

- The company pension plus the interest on my savings was over my personal tax allowance, so I had to pay tax on the income

- When the online system came into being around 2005 (?), I immediately started using it in LOS.

- In 2007 I sold my house in the UK and moved the cash in the banks on the mainland to the Isle Of Man and became a UK non-resident

- My company pension was below my personal tax allowance and my cash savings were now offshore, so I no longer had to pay tax in the UK

- After being requested by HMRC for 2 years to fill in a Self Assessment form and filling it in online with NIL everywhere, HMRC agreed with me that this was a waste of time and told me I did not need to do a Self Assessment any more.

- Two years later, I went online to the HMRC Self Assessment system to get some information about a previous year. Finding a Self Assessment form there, I filled it in.

- As soon as I filled in the Self Assessment form, they thought I was a UK resident again.

What a stupid thing I did. The request was generated by mistake by one of their systems and had I not logged on, then I would not have known about it. Anyway, it took about 10 hours of letter writing and phone calls and lots of photocopying of my passport pages and various documents to 2 different HMRC departments to be deemed a non-resident again.

In fact the person/people at HMRC were very helpful and said by using the online system it had confused their internal systems as the online system was for UK residents only. As this was several years ago now, maybe they changed their internal systems - I have no desire to find out!

I have not had a letter from HMRC for several years now and very pleased I am about it as well !