Foreign teachers in Thailand hope for stability amid education overhaul

[pinkpanther99]

Interesting read for English teachers in Thailand....

By Daniel Maxwell

On April 17, a number of senior civil servants at the Teachers’ Council of Thailand (TCT) were removed in a dramatic move by Thailand’s Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha to kick start the nation’s desperately needed education reforms. The TCT had been responsible for professional development, academic standards and the issuing of teaching licenses. With Thailand’s education system showing few signs of improvement over the past decade, the reaction to this bold move was largely positive.

And it wasn’t just parents that accepted this news with little objection, many foreign teachers were relieved to hear that the current leadership of the TCT had been shown the door. For many the TCT has been a thorn in the side with their ever-changing policies which had teachers jumping through hoops on a regular basis.

Ensuring the quality and appropriateness of individuals who are entrusted with educating Thailand’s youth is clearly an essential task that cannot be neglected. Most people would agree that background checks and monitoring individuals who work in schools is essential – teachers and language instructors need the appropriate knowledge, skills and temperament to work in schools. But what had frustrated and often infuriated foreign teachers was the inconsistent and rapidly changing manner in which these measures had been introduced and enforced.

Over the years, the policies from the TCT have complicated the hiring of foreign language instructors. This has been at odds with the Ministry of Education’s policy of encouraging schools to employ native English speaking teachers to support a communicative approach to foreign language learning. It sometimes appeared that the education departments were working against each another with one department encouraging foreign teachers while the other department was restricting their ability to work legally.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/132549/foreign-teachers-in-thailand-hope-for-stability-amid-education-overhaul/

[LecheHombre]

After nearly a decade of being personally "frustrated and often infuriated by the inconsistent and rapidly changing manner in which these measures have been introduced and enforced" ... I think it is still way too early to be even "cautiously optimistic".

I'll believe things are getting better when I see them getting better. And I'm not holding my breath.

[Fullstop]

I'll believe things are getting better when I see them getting better. And I'm not holding my breath.

Same here. Can't get a 3rd waiver, school wants me to work on a tourist visa when my current NonB ext expires in September. No way. Already booked a flight back to Sydney in September. From there I'll be applying for a Chinese Z working visa.

Been here 8 years now but it's just too insecure now. Thank God I didn't marry anyone. (Almost did!)

[White Tiger]

This is interesting.

A few nights ago I watched one of the frequent tv bulletins where the General/Prime Minister and his leadership team tell the country about the progress they are making. On the bulletin I saw there were a few Ministers, including the Education Minister. He announced there would be changes to enable teachers without teaching licences to teach if they taught subjects where there are teacher shortages. He did not say which subjects this meant. Nor did he say how this change would be implemented. But he did say his people were talking to the Teachers Council of Thailand about this.

I suppose this latest development is the Minister's plan starting to be implemented

[Fullstop]

He announced there would be changes to enable teachers without teaching licences to teach if they taught subjects where there are teacher shortages. He did not say which subjects this meant.

I guess "English" would be high on the list. But what about E.Ps? E.g Could you say there are shortages of science teachers who teach science in English?

I've got a headache.

...back to the Mandarin lessons...

[gaijinsomchai]

I finally got tired of jumping through hoops and came to Japan. Here I go to immigration once a year to renew my visa. No more tests, culture courses and ever changing policies. It's been a great move for me.

[lostinisaan]

I'll believe things are getting better when I see them getting better. And I'm not holding my breath.

Same here. Can't get a 3rd waiver, school wants me to work on a tourist visa when my current NonB ext expires in September. No way. Already booked a flight back to Sydney in September. From there I'll be applying for a Chinese Z working visa.

Been here 8 years now but it's just too insecure now. Thank God I didn't marry anyone. (Almost did!)

Did you personally check at the TCT, or did they tell you that? In most cases, you'll easily get a third one, when staying at the same school.

Edited April 30, 2015 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

One part of the "changes" were that all Thai English teachers will have to pass at least B 1 level, of the new introduced CEFR test.

( Common European Framework)

Only one of our six teachers scored B 1.Most had A 1, which is the lowest level, They seem to take it very seriously, as one ( not working at my school) was trying to "buy her way through." She's facing huge problems with the Ministry of Education now.

A1 Breakthrough

A basic ability to communicate and exchange information in a simple way.
Example: CAN ask simple questions about a menu and understand simple answers.

They're using very polite words that this person has absolute no idea about English at all......

Source: http://www.examenglish.com/CEFR/cefr.php

All the teachers, who do not reach B 1 level, will have to attend various seminars, until they pass B 1, or higher. The MoE's goal is that grade six students in the near future will have to pass A 1, grade 12 students at least B 1.

The biggest problem will be that you can't learn proper English in a few weekend seminars.

But a nice way to test teachers, before you employ them to teach English.

It seems that the O-net tests will be out soon, which can only be seen as an improvement.

And the fact that Thai English teachers can fail's also a nice move into the right direction.

P.S. Now they also have to make sure that students can and will fail. No more lost faces.

Edited April 30, 2015 by lostinisaan

[Fullstop]

Did you personally check at the TCT, or did they tell you that? In most cases, you'll easily get a third one, when staying at the same school.

It's a long and complicated saga...some of it documented on this forum over the past year. Just take my word for it for now. But anyway, a third waiver would only put off the inevitable.

No stability or security here. Enough is enough.

[connda]

They have no shortage of English teachers! There are 1000s of Thais educators with MEds who learned broken English from their own native speaking Thai educators who taught them incorrect grammar, pronunciation, and sentence structure that now gets propagated to the next generation, ad-infinitum.

Now Native English Speakers with the ability to teach English and other subjects for a sub-standard salary (i.e., being paid for 25 hours of teaching while being required to do every job in the school short of mopping the floors) -- yeah, that's a rare, endangered species. I won't do it anymore. Pay some inexperienced backpacker with an agenda to keep travelling within a year. You get what you pay for. Quality? Lmao.

"Good morning teacher. I do homework for you good."

"Good morning. Mother-father you give me extra money. I give you grade good really really."

Best of luck MoE.

[Fullstop]

Someone's overdosed on "Overly Dramatic Stereotype" pills!

Tip: Paragraph long sentences are a common symptom.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Fullstop

[Rhys]

Well English teachers, those that have been around.... every year... since.... it is the same thing.. the people in the know.. and those who don't know.. get things are riled up.. and in the end the dust settles..

We have been through how many types of these programs?

However, I think, many teachers do make a difference each day, even if one student understands.. So be it.

The English HUB of Promises..

[DavisH]

He announced there would be changes to enable teachers without teaching licences to teach if they taught subjects where there are teacher shortages. He did not say which subjects this meant.

I guess "English" would be high on the list. But what about E.Ps? E.g Could you say there are shortages of science teachers who teach science in English?

I've got a headache.

...back to the Mandarin lessons...

I can guarantee EP's have major problems getting (good) math/science teachers, especially at m4-m6 level. My school has been fortunate in that in the high school, we have very little turnover of such teachers. There's a lot more turnover with english language teachers.

[quandow]

"a number of senior civil servants at the Teachers’ Council of Thailand (TCT) were removed"

Removed? I thought they were merely shuffled around . . .

[siam2007]

I'll believe things are getting better when I see them getting better. And I'm not holding my breath.

Same here. Can't get a 3rd waiver, school wants me to work on a tourist visa when my current NonB ext expires in September. No way. Already booked a flight back to Sydney in September. From there I'll be applying for a Chinese Z working visa.

Been here 8 years now but it's just too insecure now. Thank God I didn't marry anyone. (Almost did!)

Plus, if you are good (or at least LOOK good ^^ ), you can easily earn 3 times as much as in the L.O.S.

admittedly, the SANOOK level in China is much lower....

[Somtamnication]

After nearly a decade of being personally "frustrated and often infuriated by the inconsistent and rapidly changing manner in which these measures have been introduced and enforced" ... I think it is still way too early to be even "cautiously optimistic".

I'll believe things are getting better when I see them getting better. And I'm not holding my breath.

I would agree. However, myself having been here for 13 odd years, I say we have no choice but to be "optimistic".

[bazza40]

I am wondering if the Thai alphabet is partially to blame for poor education.

I read somewhere it takes 5 years for Thai children to learn the Thai alphabet. Not surprising considering the number of consonants, vowels and tones to learn. While I don't know how long it takes to learn the modern English alphabet, I'm damn sure it wouldn't take 5 years - possibly 2 years max.

So when a child is at their peak learning level, there's a three year gap of schooling which could be more effectively applied to acquiring other skills earlier, such as maths and sciences. It's a bit like giving a 2-year old racehorse a weight handicap.

Agree or disagree?

[SlyAnimal]

I am wondering if the Thai alphabet is partially to blame for poor education.

I read somewhere it takes 5 years for Thai children to learn the Thai alphabet. Not surprising considering the number of consonants, vowels and tones to learn. While I don't know how long it takes to learn the modern English alphabet, I'm damn sure it wouldn't take 5 years - possibly 2 years max.

So when a child is at their peak learning level, there's a three year gap of schooling which could be more effectively applied to acquiring other skills earlier, such as maths and sciences. It's a bit like giving a 2-year old racehorse a weight handicap.

Agree or disagree?

They should know the alphabet by the time they finish Anuban (Kindergarten), although creating words and using all of the "additional markers" to denote tone etc takes them a bit longer. I think they should generally be able to write simple words (e.g. cat/dog) before they start primary school. Some kids learn faster/slower depending on their parents interaction with them (Many have to sit exams before they enter P1, and so can read/write quite well by then).

I think that this is probably on par with most western kids?

Their parents interaction with them is one of the big factors in their development though. As there are a lot of Thai kids who simply don't get much time with their parents, as their parents work long hours or their parents simply don't put much of a focus on promoting education (Or providing an environment which is conductive to study).

[Fullstop]

I am wondering if the Thai alphabet is partially to blame for poor education.

I read somewhere it takes 5 years for Thai children to learn the Thai alphabet.

Rubbish. Took me 5 weeks to learn to read and write Thai.(as an adult). It's actually easier to master than the English alphabet and spelling rules. i.e...it has rules and they don't "change" ...as not the case in English.

But poor old English is bastardised with foreign input. e.g "resume" ... a French word. Not pronounced with English rules.

Overall..The Thai alphabet and spelling/tone rules are MUCH easier to learn than the English alphabet and it's mangled contradictions.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Fullstop

[LecheHombre]

I am wondering if the Thai alphabet is partially to blame for poor education.

I read somewhere it takes 5 years for Thai children to learn the Thai alphabet.

Rubbish. Took me 5 weeks to learn to read and write Thai.(as an adult). It's actually easier to master than the English alphabet and spelling rules. i.e...it has rules and they don't "change" ...as not the case in English.

But poor old English is bastardised with foreign input. e.g "resume" ... a French word. Not pronounced with English rules.

Overall..The Thai alphabet and spelling/tone rules are MUCH easier to learn than the English alphabet and it's mangled contradictions.

If you learned to read and write Thai in 5 weeks, you've got a much higher talent for languages (and probably a much higher motivation to learn) than the average person.

On the other hand, I 100% agree that a lot of things about Thai are easier than English. English has such weird spelling because we incorporated words from many many different languages, and all of them have different rules about what sound/phoneme different letter combinations should represent. Thai, on the other hand, has 44 consonants, 15+ vowels, and 4 tones which can very concretely and phonetically designate the proper sound of Thai words. So if one does learn the Thai alphabet properly, it is easy to read a word that you've never seen/heard before correctly / with the correct sound. That doesn't work at all in English unless one gets very very good at making educated guesses as to the root origin of English words, and even then it is spotty.

To answer the grandparent post in the quote, I personally don't believe that the "difficulty" of the Thai alphabet has any negative impact on the education system here. Whatever failings exist are systemic, not a result of the language. BUT, I think that the Thai system actually is worried about that, much more than I am. I've spoken with Thai teachers in government Anuban schools who have been told to NOT start intentionally teaching reading/writing in English until their students are in Pratom, and when I asked about that they specifically said it was because there are concerns that kids will prefer English writing to their native Thai because they think it is easier. Fortunately, as a parent in a bilingual house that thinks that concern is nonsense, I can teach my kids to read English as soon as they are ready for it; and my wife can do likewise with Thai.

[bazza40]

Obviously consensus thus far seems to be the Thai alphabet isn't any impediment. Fullstop, were you fluent in verbal Thai prior to learning the Thai alphabet in five weeks?

[Fullstop]

If you learned to read and write Thai in 5 weeks, you've got a much higher talent for languages (and probably a much higher motivation to learn) than the average person.

Not at all. I'm just talking about the basic ability to read/write with the Thai alphabet...not the entire language. That's still an ongoing project ... well...up to to now that is. Switching over to Mandarin. Pinyin was much easier to learn.

[Fullstop]

So if one does learn the Thai alphabet properly, it is easy to read a word that you've never seen/heard before correctly / with the correct sound.

Especially if you use Google translate on your phone...no transliteration. Only Thai writing.

[Fullstop]

Fullstop, were you fluent in verbal Thai prior to learning the Thai alphabet in five weeks?

No. I knew some of the basic greetings and phrases and that's all. I noticed early how off transliterations were and needed to be able to read a Thai dictionary.

I remember learning French at school. One of the first things we had to learn was the pronunciation of the alphabet .. as used by the French.

Just a pretty basic first step in learning a language ... methinks.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Fullstop

[zeichen]

nm

Edited May 1, 2015 by zeichen

[gerryBScot]

It's a linguistic phenomenon of all languages that words are borrowed from other languages. Thai is no different in this respect from any other language. Many words in Thai come from Pali - maha, meaning 'great' is a common prefix - as in mahawittiyalai, university, for example; many Thai words also have Sanskrit origins - kuru, teacher from guru - and of course Thai borrows wholeheartedly from English though words are invariably spoken using Thai pronunciation rules which often render them incomprehensible in English - the football teams 'Arsenon' and Liverpoon' are classic examples, but what about 'sa-pan' for 'span' meaning 'bridge' and of course 'fen' for 'fan' which is girlfriend/boyfriend

I'm not sure about the benefit of being able to say the alphabet in any language, or rather for learning to recite the alphabet before the development of significant phonic awareness - what is needed first and foremost is the ability to correctly utter sounds that letters and clusters of letters make. A G3 student of mine recently was spelling the word 'cat' as 'k-r-t', 'krt', because when I sounded it he was hearing /k/ /r/ /t/! He thought I was saying the 'r' of the alphabet sound, when I was uttering the /a/ sound. This really shows how unhelpful and confusing learning the English alphabet is for young Thai learners. They think the letter 'c' can only be soft as in 'see' and the /a/ and 'r' is mind blowing - first time I ever encountered this and I am glad to say I was able to sort this out without him even knowing it!

A fascinating subject!

[lostinisaan]

I am wondering if the Thai alphabet is partially to blame for poor education.

I read somewhere it takes 5 years for Thai children to learn the Thai alphabet.

Rubbish. Took me 5 weeks to learn to read and write Thai.(as an adult). It's actually easier to master than the English alphabet and spelling rules. i.e...it has rules and they don't "change" ...as not the case in English.

But poor old English is bastardised with foreign input. e.g "resume" ... a French word. Not pronounced with English rules.

Overall..The Thai alphabet and spelling/tone rules are MUCH easier to learn than the English alphabet and it's mangled contradictions.

Rubbish. Took me 5 weeks to learn to read and write Thai.(as an adult). It's actually easier to master than the English alphabet and spelling rules. i.e...it has rules and they don't "change" ...as not the case in English.

To be honest, i don't believe you on that one. Quite a few students struggle to learn Thai properly and still struggle after six years of learning the language. I'd started to learn how to write Thai letters, when our son went to Anuban, but I had too many other things to do and it seemed pretty difficult for me. Then I made the mistake to stop after three, or four weeks.

So when I read your statement that it's so easy to learn how to read and write Thai in 5 weeks, even for an adult, then there must be something wrong with most Thais and foreigners who're learning how to write and read the language.

But poor old English is bastardised with foreign input. e.g "resume" ... a French word. Not pronounced with English rules.

English is one of the "word borrowing languages" and not too many people know how many words have the same, or at least an equivalent sound to many German words, some even including the same spelling.

But most of these words are part of your "poor old English" that got bastardized.

The French on the other hand got the feeling that their language was way too much Americanized and they had a time where they told their folks to not use certain words and get back to their French words.

Taking your example resume is a real good one. Replace the word with Curriculum Vitae and think about where these words come from.

Curriculum Vitae in English would then be something like "course of life", but sorry it's too long ago, when i had to learn Latin.

Also Thai became a "word borrowing language", the reasons are pretty easy to understand. One example is the word "Technologie",

How many Thais know that it's a German word, by no means the mispronounced English word technology.

I believe that learning the ABC, including short and long vowel sounds, is much easier than learning the Thai alphabet, with all the Sala A, Sala O, Gok Gai and Co.... ....... and so many other for me weird rules.

I can back this up with the grade one students I had from last May to end of March this year. They never learnt English before and also had to learn science and math in English.

At the end of the second term, almost all understood questions like: "What's your name?" "How old are you?" "How are you?" "Where do you live?" " Where do you come from?" "What's your favorite subject?"

85 % of them told me that their favorite subject would be English at the end of the year and they find it easier to learn English, than Thai.

Niehau La Shue.-

Edited May 1, 2015 by lostinisaan

[Fullstop]

Rubbish. Took me 5 weeks to learn to read and write Thai.(as an adult). It's actually easier to master than the English alphabet and spelling rules. i.e...it has rules and they don't "change" ...as not the case in English.

To be honest, i don't believe you on that one.

Fine.

Maybe we could get back on topic again.

Will I be able to stay and teach in Thailand with a non education degree? That's my main concern at the moment.

[gerryBScot]

Rubbish. Took me 5 weeks to learn to read and write Thai.(as an adult). It's actually easier to master than the English alphabet and spelling rules. i.e...it has rules and they don't "change" ...as not the case in English.

To be honest, i don't believe you on that one.

Fine.

Maybe we could get back on topic again.

Will I be able to stay and teach in Thailand with a non education degree? That's my main concern at the moment.

Yeah you will be able to get a licence waiver which your employer applies for. This is valid for two years. You'll get two of these automatically but the third and subsequent ones are dependent on you actively pursuing some form of education qualification. There are a number of options in this respect details of which can be found in other threads.

[Fullstop]

^ Like previously mentioned ... All waivers used. School can't get another one. They want me to stay on a tourist visa ... flight booked to Sydney in September.

Goodbye Thailand...

Hello China.