Thai court grants Koh Tao evidence review for pair accused of Brit murders

[berybert]

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I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

as far as I can see the British police were given access to nothing and why should they, they observed only

This whole case hinges on the DNA evidence of semen found on the body of the victim matching the accused, if there is no match then there is no case - simple as that

If there is no match to the accused then that means that someone else was involved and the police should have pursued this with great urgency at the time (or covered it up as some here suggest)

Although DNA Evidence is an important factor in this case, it is not the only factor here. Witnesses, placing the accused near the crime scene when the murder took place, cigarette butts found at the crime scene that match the brand of one of the accused who is the only one that smokes, a missing cell phone, of one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.

Then there is the confession from both of the accused. Granted that the accused may have been under considerable duress at the time, but it doesn't explain a lot of things. Like both of them being questioned at the same time, in separate rooms, yet both stories match exactly what they said took place that night, and what they did to the victims, and how they killed them. Which also matches perfectly the evidence the police had at that time. They also both don't have an alibi to place them someplace during the murder.

This alone is enough to get a Guilty Verdict. Remember, there were many Murder Trials that took place long before DNA Evidence came along. But with 2 separate sample taken with one done in Thailand and the other done in Singapore (I think) with both pointing to the accused,sure. Let the Defense have a look.

Call it what you want. But with all this evidence pointing to them there is only on explanation. That they did it! They are also getting a better Defense and Break then I would get if I was accused of such a crime, so no, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the Victims Family.

So where does this all come from ? There has as far as I'm aware never been any talk of them being interrogated separately and both telling the police the same story. Do you have a link ? We saw from the reconstruction that neither of them had a clue as to what they did that night. We also have Muang Muang saying they were in bed asleep when he got back to his room which was within minutes of the murders taking place.

No DNA was tested in Singapore.

Witnesses placing them at the scene of the crime ?

And of course they were both killed by a hoe. And do tell me how you know what brand of cigarette every worker on Koh Tao smoke ?

Are you making all of this up, or did you dream it ?

[DavisH]

Could/would the RTP plant DNA into/onto the victims clothes?..is this possible..??

Also will the two youths be able to contest any evidence submitted if they know damn well they're being set-up..?

It could come down to discrediting the way DNA was collected at the scene. Dis you see one of the (Thai) suspects trampling his way though the murder scene on that morning? As hundreds of DNA samples were collected and shown to be negative (weren't the accused in that batch?), then how did they suddenly become positive? There will be a lot of tough questions for the prosecution to answer if/when this gets to court.

[GOLDBUGGY]

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interesting and some praise from me for allowing this to happen, this should remove any doubt with the DNA evidence and allow them to receive a fair representation with all the facts and evidence verified, although it must be done independently 100%

They are the Defense and not the Prosecutor. They are not looking for evidence. They are looking for Loop Holes, in which they can jump through. Doing the DNA Test correctly but by making a small mistake, like putting in the wrong time, or date, is a Loop Hole.

They are also looking for media attention, to get sympathy. The claim that the accused where under duress when they made there confessions is hog wash. Hell! If you are charged for Murder and face the Death Penalty, which normal human being would not be under duress? Especially if you did do it and they have strong evidence that points to that. As in this case.

I have never been hauled in by the R.C.M.P for any crime but you can bet if it is you they are not going to treat you nice. The whole objective of interrogation is to put you under duress. To make you angry. To make you feel guilty for what you have done. To threaten you to a longer jail sentence if you don't confess. This all is common practice anywhere!

They are looking for sympathy not so the accused have a get out of jail card, and walk away free men. There is just too much evidence against them to support that and for this to ever happen. Their Lawyers, above anyone else, will know this already.

They are looking for sympathy so that they can have there sentence changed from the Death Penalty to Life in Prison. Personally, I think I would rather have the Death Penalty than Life in a Thai Prison, but that is another story. In order for them to be able to do that, they need a Loop Hole. One that will make the Prosecution think that they do not have such a cut and dry case. That a Plea Bargain with the Defense for a confession may be in the best interest for the people. But they need to look at the evidence first. Which they are doing now. .

[boomerangutang]

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I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.
So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

as far as I can see the British police were given access to nothing and why should they, they observed only


This whole case hinges on the DNA evidence of semen found on the body of the victim matching the accused, if there is no match then there is no case - simple as that

If there is no match to the accused then that means that someone else was involved and the police should have pursued this with great urgency at the time (or covered it up as some here suggest)

Although DNA Evidence is an important factor in this case, it is not the only factor here. Witnesses, placing the accused near the crime scene when the murder took place, cigarette butts found at the crime scene that match the brand of one of the accused who is the only one that smokes, a missing cell phone, of one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.

Then there is the confession from both of the accused. Granted that the accused may have been under considerable duress at the time, but it doesn't explain a lot of things. Like both of them being questioned at the same time, in separate rooms, yet both stories match exactly what they said took place that night, and what they did to the victims, and how they killed them. Which also matches perfectly the evidence the police had at that time. They also both don't have an alibi to place them someplace during the murder.

This alone is enough to get a Guilty Verdict. Remember, there were many Murder Trials that took place long before DNA Evidence came along. But with 2 separate sample taken with one done in Thailand and the other done in Singapore (I think) with both pointing to the accused,sure. Let the Defense have a look.

Call it what you want. But with all this evidence pointing to them there is only on explanation. That they did it! They are also getting a better Defense and Break then I would get if I was accused of such a crime, so no, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the Victims Family.

So where does this all come from ? There has as far as I'm aware never been any talk of them being interrogated separately and both telling the police the same story. Do you have a link ? We saw from the reconstruction that neither of them had a clue as to what they did that night. We also have Muang Muang saying they were in bed asleep when he got back to his room which was within minutes of the murders taking place.
No DNA was tested in Singapore.
Witnesses placing them at the scene of the crime ?
And of course they were both killed by a hoe. And do tell me how you know what brand of cigarette every worker on Koh Tao smoke ?
Are you making all of this up, or did you dream it ?

Berybert, you mention some of the same items I mentioned in two posts (responding to goldbuggy) which have been recently deleted. Ok, I can't say all I want to say on this forum, but I will say goldbuggy really needs to look at what's been divulged by authorities since Sept '14, and read up on what others have been saying. It's as though he/she is just jumping in this discussion with scant little info or awareness. Pure speculation and fabrication - is not a good foundation for espousing opinions.

[berybert]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>Berybert, you mention some of the same items I mentioned in two posts (responding to goldbuggy) which have been recently deleted. Ok, I can't say all I want to say on this forum, but I will say goldbuggy really needs to look at what's been divulged by authorities since Sept '14, and read up on what others have been saying. It's as though he/she is just jumping in this discussion with scant little info or awareness. Pure speculation and fabrication - is not a good foundation for espousing opinions.

Yes so I see. I wont bother to respond to him/her again. Seems like a screwdriver is needed.

Edited May 2, 2015 by berybert

[pasak]

And what did the UK police have to say ??

It was a very nice holiday

regards Worgeordie

We proceeded in a southerly direction to arrive at our aforesaid destination where we was well taken care of by the 'Eadman and his entourage. 'Avin deduced there'd been no foul play, we produced our truncheons, offered up our 'elmets and had a nice time with the local ladies... all paid for by our kind hosts.

[JLCrab]

From the above: ... (poster went on with opinions)

Please be more specific when quoting a post. The immediate posts above yours didn't contain the quote you included in your post.

<snip>

More specific? OK, how's this then: From that idiot's post above?

[NongKhaiKid]

And what did the UK police have to say ??

It was a very nice holiday

regards Worgeordie

We proceeded in a southerly direction to arrive at our aforesaid destination where we was well taken care of by the 'Eadman and his entourage. 'Avin deduced there'd been no foul play, we produced our truncheons, offered up our 'elmets and had a nice time with the local ladies... all paid for by our kind hosts.

The Met team would know and have been well briefed of what to expect and the do's and dont's. Anyone stepping out of line could have caused a diplomatic incident and given their hosts all they needed to discredit their presence especially if the investigation was highly questionable and you don't want outsiders asking questions.

[GOLDBUGGY]

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It is because they are not Lawyers. They also did not collect any of the evidence or conduct the DNA Testing. They were only told and shown the evidence they have against them. So they concluded, that to them, it appears to be strong.

I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

Quote from the Miller family: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.”

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html)

The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing

The key words here are "appears to be". Not quite the same as "is".

[GOLDBUGGY]

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If they have any DNA evidence from Hannah's body then hang them high. Personally I believe the only DNA evidence they have is from a cigarette butt.

So the DNA which would be from sperm is the killer here. They must prove the DNA is actual sperm and not from the fag butt.

Is that possible, I don't know. But now the woman expert is on the scene I expect we will find out.

As for bloodied clothes, seems to be a new one. No mention of bloody clothes in any police reports from the time when they were reporting every detail.

Even David's clothes managed to be clean shiny and new despite being surrounded by blood on the beach.

They have already said long ago that they collected DNA Samples from inside Hannah's body, as well as cigarette buts found at the crime scene, and that both the DNA matches the accused. That is to say DNA done in Thailand, and also out of country in Singapore. This is why they were arrested and charged.

Now how some people can scream they are innocent, just because they look that way, is beyond me. .

[NongKhaiKid]

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It is because they are not Lawyers. They also did not collect any of the evidence or conduct the DNA Testing. They were only told and shown the evidence they have against them. So they concluded, that to them, it appears to be strong.

I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

Quote from the Miller family: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.”

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html)

The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing

The key words here are "appears to be". Not quite the same as "is".

What were the Met police supposed to do with observer status in a country where they had no constabulary powers and totally dependent on what their hosts chose to tell or show them etc ? Police officers cannot go into another jurisdiction and carry on like the rubbish shown on the television and Hollywood movies because of the consequences. Simple point, how many of the Met team spoke Thai ?

If co-operation etc was withheld I'm sure it would have been reflected in their report which is not theirs to release. The Met are directly responsible to the Home Office who will be liaising with the Foreign Office and diplomacy is a tricky issue.

It doesn't matter if the 2 Burmese are convicted or not as the debate in the FO will be the same, " what do we release ? "

[GOLDBUGGY]

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From the above: ... (poster went on with opinions)

Please be more specific when quoting a post. The immediate posts above yours didn't contain the quote you included in your post.

Although DNA Evidence is an important factor in this case, it is not the only factor here. Witnesses, placing the accused near the crime scene when the murder took place, cigarette butts found at the crime scene that match the brand of one of the accused who is the only one that smokes, a missing cell phone, of one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.
Then there is the confession from both of the accused. Granted that the accused may have been under considerable duress at the time, but it doesn't explain a lot of things. Like both of them being questioned at the same time, in separate rooms, yet both stories match exactly what they said took place that night, and what they did to the victims, and how they killed them. Which also matches perfectly the evidence the police had at that time. They also both don't have an alibi to place them someplace during the murder.

This alone is enough to get a Guilty Verdict. Remember, there were many Murder Trials that took place long before DNA Evidence came along. But with 2 separate sample taken with one done in Thailand and the other done in Singapore (I think) with both pointing to the accused,sure. Let the Defense have a look.

Call it what you want. But with all this evidence pointing to them there is only on explanation. That they did it! They are also getting a better Defense and Break then I would get if I was accused of such a crime, so no, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the Victims Family.

Sorry, but no cigar. Some of the things GOLDBUGGY alluded to have not been mentioned thus far, and some of his/her conclusions are stretched in their subjectivity. The opening paragraph has incorrect data, particularly its last line; 'one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.' ....where does that factoid come from? Never heard it before.

the 2nd paragraph has assumptions which, even if the writer was at the 'safe house' at the time, couldn't know. Are there any transcripts and/or video of the safe house interrogations? Even if the writer was at the safe house, he could only be in one room or another, so he could not say with certainty that both said the same things at the same time. Again, the last sentence (of the 2nd paragraph) is false. The B2 have an alibi, and it's reasonable (they went home, went to sleep).

It was a Type-o error. I meant to say one of the victims cells phones was found there, and not the victim.

Sperm of the accused found inside of Hannah from 2 separate DNA Tests carried out, both inside the country and outside the country, is not a stretch of my imagination. It is a Cold Hard Fact and considered Evidence in any court of Law.

[AleG]

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They are the Defense and not the Prosecutor. They are not looking for evidence. They are looking for Loop Holes, in which they can jump through. Doing the DNA Test correctly but by making a small mistake, like putting in the wrong time, or date, is a Loop Hole.

They are also looking for media attention, to get sympathy. The claim that the accused where under duress when they made there confessions is hog wash. Hell! If you are charged for Murder and face the Death Penalty, which normal human being would not be under duress? Especially if you did do it and they have strong evidence that points to that. As in this case.

I have never been hauled in by the R.C.M.P for any crime but you can bet if it is you they are not going to treat you nice. The whole objective of interrogation is to put you under duress. To make you angry. To make you feel guilty for what you have done. To threaten you to a longer jail sentence if you don't confess. This all is common practice anywhere!

They are looking for sympathy not so the accused have a get out of jail card, and walk away free men. There is just too much evidence against them to support that and for this to ever happen. Their Lawyers, above anyone else, will know this already.

They are looking for sympathy so that they can have there sentence changed from the Death Penalty to Life in Prison. Personally, I think I would rather have the Death Penalty than Life in a Thai Prison, but that is another story. In order for them to be able to do that, they need a Loop Hole. One that will make the Prosecution think that they do not have such a cut and dry case. That a Plea Bargain with the Defense for a confession may be in the best interest for the people. But they need to look at the evidence first. Which they are doing now. .

"They are looking for sympathy not so the accused have a get out of jail card, and walk away free men. There is just too much evidence against them to support that and for this to ever happen. Their Lawyers, above anyone else, will know this already."

Oh, the lawyers certainly know, what with the two Burmese confessing to them of the murders under no duress and all that.

[NongKhaiKid]

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From the above: ... (poster went on with opinions)

Please be more specific when quoting a post. The immediate posts above yours didn't contain the quote you included in your post.

Although DNA Evidence is an important factor in this case, it is not the only factor here. Witnesses, placing the accused near the crime scene when the murder took place, cigarette butts found at the crime scene that match the brand of one of the accused who is the only one that smokes, a missing cell phone, of one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.

Then there is the confession from both of the accused. Granted that the accused may have been under considerable duress at the time, but it doesn't explain a lot of things. Like both of them being questioned at the same time, in separate rooms, yet both stories match exactly what they said took place that night, and what they did to the victims, and how they killed them. Which also matches perfectly the evidence the police had at that time. They also both don't have an alibi to place them someplace during the murder.

This alone is enough to get a Guilty Verdict. Remember, there were many Murder Trials that took place long before DNA Evidence came along. But with 2 separate sample taken with one done in Thailand and the other done in Singapore (I think) with both pointing to the accused,sure. Let the Defense have a look.

Call it what you want. But with all this evidence pointing to them there is only on explanation. That they did it! They are also getting a better Defense and Break then I would get if I was accused of such a crime, so no, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the Victims Family.

Sorry, but no cigar. Some of the things GOLDBUGGY alluded to have not been mentioned thus far, and some of his/her conclusions are stretched in their subjectivity. The opening paragraph has incorrect data, particularly its last line; 'one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.' ....where does that factoid come from? Never heard it before.

the 2nd paragraph has assumptions which, even if the writer was at the 'safe house' at the time, couldn't know. Are there any transcripts and/or video of the safe house interrogations? Even if the writer was at the safe house, he could only be in one room or another, so he could not say with certainty that both said the same things at the same time. Again, the last sentence (of the 2nd paragraph) is false. The B2 have an alibi, and it's reasonable (they went home, went to sleep).

It was a Type-o error. I meant to say one of the victims cells phones was found there, and not the victim.

Sperm of the accused found inside of Hannah from 2 separate DNA Tests carried out, both inside the country and outside the country, is not a stretch of my imagination. It is a Cold Hard Fact and considered Evidence in any court of Law.

If I remember correctly no DNA testing was done outside the country. Initally it was to be in the US then changed to Singapore then finally decided it could be done here. Read into that what you want !

[GOLDBUGGY]

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I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

as far as I can see the British police were given access to nothing and why should they, they observed only

This whole case hinges on the DNA evidence of semen found on the body of the victim matching the accused, if there is no match then there is no case - simple as that

If there is no match to the accused then that means that someone else was involved and the police should have pursued this with great urgency at the time (or covered it up as some here suggest)

Although DNA Evidence is an important factor in this case, it is not the only factor here. Witnesses, placing the accused near the crime scene when the murder took place, cigarette butts found at the crime scene that match the brand of one of the accused who is the only one that smokes, a missing cell phone, of one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.

Then there is the confession from both of the accused. Granted that the accused may have been under considerable duress at the time, but it doesn't explain a lot of things. Like both of them being questioned at the same time, in separate rooms, yet both stories match exactly what they said took place that night, and what they did to the victims, and how they killed them. Which also matches perfectly the evidence the police had at that time. They also both don't have an alibi to place them someplace during the murder.

This alone is enough to get a Guilty Verdict. Remember, there were many Murder Trials that took place long before DNA Evidence came along. But with 2 separate sample taken with one done in Thailand and the other done in Singapore (I think) with both pointing to the accused,sure. Let the Defense have a look.

Call it what you want. But with all this evidence pointing to them there is only on explanation. That they did it! They are also getting a better Defense and Break then I would get if I was accused of such a crime, so no, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the Victims Family.

So where does this all come from ? There has as far as I'm aware never been any talk of them being interrogated separately and both telling the police the same story. Do you have a link ? We saw from the reconstruction that neither of them had a clue as to what they did that night. We also have Muang Muang saying they were in bed asleep when he got back to his room which was within minutes of the murders taking place.

No DNA was tested in Singapore.

Witnesses placing them at the scene of the crime ?

And of course they were both killed by a hoe. And do tell me how you know what brand of cigarette every worker on Koh Tao smoke ?

Are you making all of this up, or did you dream it ?

You have got to be kidding me! Did you just read the story today and now concluded they are innocent.

Okay, let me help you out a little bit. You find a few fresh L&M Regular Cigarette Butts at the Crime Scene when neither of the victims smoke. By now you have suspects. Witnesses who saw them sitting on a Log, near the Crime Scene, in the early hours, and playing their guitar and drinking.You take a DNA Sample which matches one of the accused. You look in his pocket and discover he smokes L&M Regular. And exactly what they did do! You couldn't find a match for the other accused because he doesn't damned well smoke cigarettes. Geese!

You damned right that a second DNA Test was preformed, after everyone made such a big fuss about it being tainted, and it was sent to Singapore for an independent test. This is a know fact!

Who said they were both killed by a Hoe. David was, but Hannah had her pretty head bashed in, and as far as I know they did not find the weapon that did that.

An Alibi is being seen at the Police Man's Convention and having dinner with the Police Chief during the time of the murder! Or a Sporting Even when several witnesses can testify they saw you there or sat next to you. What an Alibi isn't is to have your co-accused say you both went to sleep but nobody else saw you.

And No! I am not going to did all this information up for you so you can sit on your Butt and play your game. It is all on the Internet. Dig it up yourself!

[mcm991]

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You have got to be kidding me! Did you just read the story today and now concluded they are innocent.

Okay, let me help you out a little bit. You find a few fresh L&M Regular Cigarette Butts at the Crime Scene when neither of the victims smoke. By now you have suspects. Witnesses who saw them sitting on a Log, near the Crime Scene, in the early hours, and playing their guitar and drinking.You take a DNA Sample which matches one of the accused. You look in his pocket and discover he smokes L&M Regular. And exactly what they did do! You couldn't find a match for the other accused because he doesn't damned well smoke cigarettes. Geese!

You damned right that a second DNA Test was preformed, after everyone made such a big fuss about it being tainted, and it was sent to Singapore for an independent test. This is a know fact!

Who said they were both killed by a Hoe. David was, but Hannah had her pretty head bashed in, and as far as I know they did not find the weapon that did that.

An Alibi is being seen at the Police Man's Convention and having dinner with the Police Chief during the time of the murder! Or a Sporting Even when several witnesses can testify they saw you there or sat next to you. What an Alibi isn't is to have your co-accused say you both went to sleep but nobody else saw you.

And No! I am not going to did all this information up for you so you can sit on your Butt and play your game. It is all on the Internet. Dig it up yourself!

Most of that commentary of yours is not true although you do have an active imagination.

The cigarette butts were found about 50m way from the crime scene where the 2 admitted they were sitting and playing guitar.

None of the DNA testing was done outside Thailand.

Police said they were both killed with the hoe and the re-enactment depicted that.

[jdinasia]

Testing outside of Thailand was mentioned. I am not sure where all the test were run.

50m is close enough to be part of the crime scene. (where the conspiracy to murder and rape was arrived at)

Police have mentioned a second weapon (bottle or metal bar)

We'll see what evidence is actually presented in the trial.

[IslandLover]

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You have got to be kidding me! Did you just read the story today and now concluded they are innocent.

Okay, let me help you out a little bit. You find a few fresh L&M Regular Cigarette Butts at the Crime Scene when neither of the victims smoke. By now you have suspects. Witnesses who saw them sitting on a Log, near the Crime Scene, in the early hours, and playing their guitar and drinking.You take a DNA Sample which matches one of the accused. You look in his pocket and discover he smokes L&M Regular. And exactly what they did do! You couldn't find a match for the other accused because he doesn't damned well smoke cigarettes. Geese!

You damned right that a second DNA Test was preformed, after everyone made such a big fuss about it being tainted, and it was sent to Singapore for an independent test. This is a know fact!

Who said they were both killed by a Hoe. David was, but Hannah had her pretty head bashed in, and as far as I know they did not find the weapon that did that.

An Alibi is being seen at the Police Man's Convention and having dinner with the Police Chief during the time of the murder! Or a Sporting Even when several witnesses can testify they saw you there or sat next to you. What an Alibi isn't is to have your co-accused say you both went to sleep but nobody else saw you.

And No! I am not going to did all this information up for you so you can sit on your Butt and play your game. It is all on the Internet. Dig it up yourself!

Who said they were both killed by a Hoe. David was, but Hannah had her pretty head bashed in, and as far as I know they did not find the weapon that did that.

You really don't have a clue, do you? Hannah "had her pretty head bashed in", as you so elegantly put it, by the hoe - accepted fact! David died from drowning and appeared to have wounds caused by a knife of some sort, although the prosecution is saying (and the re-enactment showed it) that they were both killed by the hoe. I presume the defence will claim that the hoe was not the weapon used on David and that that weapon was never found!

[DavisH]

Testing outside of Thailand was mentioned. I am not sure where all the test were run.

50m is close enough to be part of the crime scene. (where the conspiracy to murder and rape was arrived at)

Police have mentioned a second weapon (bottle or metal bar)

We'll see what evidence is actually presented in the trial.

That's quite a shame. Testing in SP was mentioned, but maybe that was before who they really knew who was involved with this. At the start the Thai authorities even said they don't have the technology to clearly identify the criminals. They they sad they did....hmm. I still see the prosecution getting torn apart in a court.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Regardless of the fact that " A Thai court has allowed independent verification of the DNA evidence against the two suspects" and there is no reasonable reason to doubt it will come back matching these two "alleged" rapist murdering thugs, those who continue their faux support of them will continue with conspiracy and far fetched theories because of their own personal issues. Justice is not a motivation for most of them and they could care less if the guilty walk free to rape and murder more innocent people as long as it means they can continue to find ways to spread their hatred towards their own lives Thailand.

Edited May 3, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

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Please be more specific when quoting a post. The immediate posts above yours didn't contain the quote you included in your post.

Although DNA Evidence is an important factor in this case, it is not the only factor here. Witnesses, placing the accused near the crime scene when the murder took place, cigarette butts found at the crime scene that match the brand of one of the accused who is the only one that smokes, a missing cell phone, of one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.

Then there is the confession from both of the accused. Granted that the accused may have been under considerable duress at the time, but it doesn't explain a lot of things. Like both of them being questioned at the same time, in separate rooms, yet both stories match exactly what they said took place that night, and what they did to the victims, and how they killed them. Which also matches perfectly the evidence the police had at that time. They also both don't have an alibi to place them someplace during the murder.

This alone is enough to get a Guilty Verdict. Remember, there were many Murder Trials that took place long before DNA Evidence came along. But with 2 separate sample taken with one done in Thailand and the other done in Singapore (I think) with both pointing to the accused,sure. Let the Defense have a look.

Call it what you want. But with all this evidence pointing to them there is only on explanation. That they did it! They are also getting a better Defense and Break then I would get if I was accused of such a crime, so no, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the Victims Family.

Sorry, but no cigar. Some of the things GOLDBUGGY alluded to have not been mentioned thus far, and some of his/her conclusions are stretched in their subjectivity. The opening paragraph has incorrect data, particularly its last line; 'one of the victims, found at the residence, or near the residence, of one of the accused.' ....where does that factoid come from? Never heard it before.

the 2nd paragraph has assumptions which, even if the writer was at the 'safe house' at the time, couldn't know. Are there any transcripts and/or video of the safe house interrogations? Even if the writer was at the safe house, he could only be in one room or another, so he could not say with certainty that both said the same things at the same time. Again, the last sentence (of the 2nd paragraph) is false. The B2 have an alibi, and it's reasonable (they went home, went to sleep).

It was a Type-o error. I meant to say one of the victims cells phones was found there, and not the victim.

Sperm of the accused found inside of Hannah from 2 separate DNA Tests carried out, both inside the country and outside the country, is not a stretch of my imagination. It is a Cold Hard Fact and considered Evidence in any court of Law.

If I remember correctly no DNA testing was done outside the country. Initally it was to be in the US then changed to Singapore then finally decided it could be done here. Read into that what you want !

Where does it say it was never sent to Singapore?

"Somyot said the DNA of two Asian men was found at the crime scene and had been sent to Singapore for advanced analysis"

It certainly may not have been but I don't recall reading any news report saying it was not sent to Singapore. I have read on the other hand that the DNA from the crime scene was sent to numerous separate labs within Thailand that were trying to keep up with comparing it to the hundreds of samples they collected from potential suspects. In other words, the DNA from the crime scene is on file in numerous places including labs at universities. The DNA tested from the crime scene is also going to have a HUGE paper trail both physical papers and within numerous computer systems. So unless you believe the police planted these suspects DNA at the crime scene the day it was collected from the crime scene there is no reasonable way to dispute follow-up tests that confirm it was their DNA (sperm) in the victim was from the suspects. It also in illogical to believe the police and lab believed they'd get away with falssifying the original DNA comparison that identified these two. All the police with access to the original DNA findings as well as all the labs and technicians involved in comparing samples early on are not part of some grand conspiracy to protect some tiny island headsman's son whose DNA did not match and has credible proof he was in Bangkok at the time of the murders despite early rumors.

Edited May 3, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[arfurcrown]

JohnThailandJohnpost # 170.

Regardless of the fact that " A Thai court has allowed independent verification of the DNA evidence against the two suspects" and there is no reasonable reason to doubt it will come back matching these two "alleged" rapist murdering thugs, those who continue their faux support of them will continue with conspiracy and far fetched theories because of their own personal issues. Justice is not a motivation for most of them and they could care less if the guilty walk free to rape and murder more innocent people as long as it means they can continue to find ways to spread their hatred towards their own lives Thailand.

Nice one mate, judge and jury now are you. Good to see such an expert making comments on the matter

Justice is not a motivation for most of them and they could care less if the guilty walk free to rape and murder more innocent people as long as it means they can continue to find ways to spread their hatred towards their own lives Thailand.

You looked in the mirror lately mate? The families that are the enforcers on the island are the things you describe and support.

[jdinasia]

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You have got to be kidding me! Did you just read the story today and now concluded they are innocent.

Okay, let me help you out a little bit. You find a few fresh L&M Regular Cigarette Butts at the Crime Scene when neither of the victims smoke. By now you have suspects. Witnesses who saw them sitting on a Log, near the Crime Scene, in the early hours, and playing their guitar and drinking.You take a DNA Sample which matches one of the accused. You look in his pocket and discover he smokes L&M Regular. And exactly what they did do! You couldn't find a match for the other accused because he doesn't damned well smoke cigarettes. Geese!

You damned right that a second DNA Test was preformed, after everyone made such a big fuss about it being tainted, and it was sent to Singapore for an independent test. This is a know fact!

Who said they were both killed by a Hoe. David was, but Hannah had her pretty head bashed in, and as far as I know they did not find the weapon that did that.

An Alibi is being seen at the Police Man's Convention and having dinner with the Police Chief during the time of the murder! Or a Sporting Even when several witnesses can testify they saw you there or sat next to you. What an Alibi isn't is to have your co-accused say you both went to sleep but nobody else saw you.

And No! I am not going to did all this information up for you so you can sit on your Butt and play your game. It is all on the Internet. Dig it up yourself!

Who said they were both killed by a Hoe. David was, but Hannah had her pretty head bashed in, and as far as I know they did not find the weapon that did that.

You really don't have a clue, do you? Hannah "had her pretty head bashed in", as you so elegantly put it, by the hoe - accepted fact! David died from drowning and appeared to have wounds caused by a knife of some sort, although the prosecution is saying (and the re-enactment showed it) that they were both killed by the hoe. I presume the defence will claim that the hoe was not the weapon used on David and that that weapon was never found!

You are mistaking the prosecution with the police.

[JohnThailandJohn]

JohnThailandJohnpost # 170.

Regardless of the fact that " A Thai court has allowed independent verification of the DNA evidence against the two suspects" and there is no reasonable reason to doubt it will come back matching these two "alleged" rapist murdering thugs, those who continue their faux support of them will continue with conspiracy and far fetched theories because of their own personal issues. Justice is not a motivation for most of them and they could care less if the guilty walk free to rape and murder more innocent people as long as it means they can continue to find ways to spread their hatred towards their own lives Thailand.

Nice one mate, judge and jury now are you. Good to see such an expert making comments on the matter

Justice is not a motivation for most of them and they could care less if the guilty walk free to rape and murder more innocent people as long as it means they can continue to find ways to spread their hatred towards their own lives Thailand.

You looked in the mirror lately mate? The families that are the enforcers on the island are the things you describe and support.

You do realize you are proving my point exactly don't you?

ZERO proof anyone on the island had anything to do with this except the two in custody while a great deal of evidence against the two charged in the case and ZERO credible evidence to suggest they were framed or some vast conspiracy has taken place. All there is is speculation and theories to try to debunk evidence and to try suggest others did this. One of the best angles the theorists have is to look back at selective early reports, rumors and comments and pretend they were not debunked, shown to be incorrect or simply early theories contradicted later as the investigation played out ... then again can just make ridiculous comments and pretend things like you did above stating something to the effect I am being judge and jury for sharing an opinion based on known facts.

Edited May 3, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[JLCrab]

This is my comment from 22 MARCH 2015:

If this is to be a case this summer made totally out of whole-cloth with 60-some prosecution witnesses providing a conga-line of perjured testimony (or what they believe to be truthful testimony even if it is perjured testimony) with the type of world-wide media attention this trial is to receive, I don't think the folks down there on Samui -- many of whom are one generation away from coconut farmers -- are good enough to pull that one off.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-27#entry9216525

Edited May 3, 2015 by JLCrab

[stephenterry]

Pity goldbuggy isn't a witness for the prosecution. The defence could rip his incorrect testimony to shreds. Let's just pick one major flaw into all of the hang-em-high brigade. David Miller's DNA wasn't found on the hoe. No mention of his DNA on either of the B2 nor the B2's DNA on the hoe that was used to kill the female victim. So how was DM killed, and by who? The RTP would state that an unnamed and missing weapon was used.

Without any DNA evidence or murder weapon to link the B2 to DM, they have no DNA case to answer in respect of DM's death. However you guys put a 'spin' on it, it should be impossible (beyond reasonable doubt) for the court to convict the B2 of his death because they happened to be in the vicinity of the murder scene at 1am (and found sleeping in their beds at 5am). The prosecution needs more circumstantial evidence to strengthen their case.

Finally, for this post, all TVF have been privy to is the RTP's version of events, which is yet to be accepted as 'factual' by the court. No-one on here has had any feedback from the defence's counter arguments, other than the defence is confident that their case is strong enough to set the B2 free.

[jdinasia]

Stephen -

Not only is a murder weapon not required to get a murder conviction, your don't even need a corpse.

You saying it should be impossible doesn't make it true. There appears to be enough to get convictions on both of the 2 Burmese defendants.

Feel free to keep focusing on one of the 2 murders, but my guess is that the court will conclude that it is reasonable that both of the victims were killed by the same perpetrators.

[berybert]

If I remember correctly no DNA testing was done outside the country. Initally it was to be in the US then changed to Singapore then finally decided it could be done here. Read into that what you want !

Where does it say it was never sent to Singapore?

"Somyot said the DNA of two Asian men was found at the crime scene and had been sent to Singapore for advanced analysis"

It certainly may not have been but I don't recall reading any news report saying it was not sent to Singapore. I have read on the other hand that the DNA from the crime scene was sent to numerous separate labs within Thailand that were trying to keep up with comparing it to the hundreds of samples they collected from potential suspects. In other words, the DNA from the crime scene is on file in numerous places including labs at universities. The DNA tested from the crime scene is also going to have a HUGE paper trail both physical papers and within numerous computer systems. So unless you believe the police planted these suspects DNA at the crime scene the day it was collected from the crime scene there is no reasonable way to dispute follow-up tests that confirm it was their DNA (sperm) in the victim was from the suspects. It also in illogical to believe the police and lab believed they'd get away with falssifying the original DNA comparison that identified these two. All the police with access to the original DNA findings as well as all the labs and technicians involved in comparing samples early on are not part of some grand conspiracy to protect some tiny island headsman's son whose DNA did not match and has credible proof he was in Bangkok at the time of the murders despite early rumors.

So your way of trying to convince people that the DNA was sent to Singapore is to tell them it was sent to many different labs within Thailand.

I hope this is the kind of reasoning the prosecution use.

[stephenterry]

This is my comment from 22 MARCH 2015:

If this is to be a case this summer made totally out of whole-cloth with 60-some prosecution witnesses providing a conga-line of perjured testimony (or what they believe to be truthful testimony even if it is perjured testimony) with the type of world-wide media attention this trial is to receive, I don't think the folks down there on Samui -- many of whom are one generation away from coconut farmers -- are good enough to pull that one off.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-27#entry9216525

Some lies are worse than others, and Reverend Wright might appreciate the hierarchical taxonomy for lies, damned lies, and (as he might put it) goddamned lies.

And the truth (in this case) lies somewhere in between.

[roo860]

Where is original evidence? Probably in RTP safekeeping. ...or still in Headman's fridge?

It's doubtful RTP would want to provide evidence which may put their organization's prior conclusions in a bad light.

From my experience with Thai authorities, they seem to lose bits of evidence (or the evidence deteriorates to become useless) when it doesn't fit with their game plan.

And what did the UK police have to say ??

Thanks for the seafood at the island restaurant, and can I please get the tel# of the lass who gave me the foot massage?

Didn't expect the British police to suddenly take charge of the case, am surprised the Thai government allowed them here in the first place.