Minimum wage 'not enough for daily expenses'

[winstonc]

Been there done that it is hard yes so what I did was take on a second job and went to college part time for a few years My reward was after those few years was down to one job at three times I was making before. So living standard went up again and so did expenses So ended again a second job and saved every penny till enough to go on my own. Well back to one job but the hours it took to run it were long vacation Not a day for 20 years reward retired and well off now. It is about choices plain and simple.

are you quoting as a thai...i doubt that...get real remember where you are..not everyone has chances or choices do they..i doubt one of your so called jobs involved working in a field in the hot sun...YOU WILL SAY YOU DID just so you dont lose your superior farang face..

[trogers]

At least there is something like a minimal wage. We live in Singapore and have a very good life. However I often feel a bit ashamed if I see all the maids, security and construction workers making just 400-500 SGD/mth. From a highly developed and wealthy country you would not expect this.

We also must be careful with making comments that it is their own fault ect. Those people are the lowest ranked and it is very easy to say what they should do. If you have little you live by the day. If I see all the westerns coming to Thailand living on a budget or teaching for 70K a month, one paycheck away from backruptcy you can also wonder why they did not make a more descend living with all the opportunities they have had.

Ahhh...I remember an observation of Thai workers in Singapore. It was in 1988. A team of 12 workers with a Malaysian foreman had to pour over 500 cu. metres of cconcrete for the base of a fuel storage tank at the airport, using a concrete pump.

Fast forward two years later, in 1990. Concrete has to be poured to a mass foundation of a condo up on Pattaya Hill. The team used was 24 Thai workers with a Thai foreman. Pouring is by a sliding ramp as the foundation is almost 2 metres below the roadway.

I seen 12 Thai workers working non-stop in Singapore to get the job done. The 24 workers in Pattaya was divided into 2 teams. One team worked and the other team sat and watched. After an hour, they switched.

Thai workers in Singapore earn about double the wage rate of Thailand, after forex conversion. But cost to place concrete in both countries is the same.

Why are Thai workers more productive when working overseas?

If Thai workers are as productive in Thailand as they are overseas, the market would gladly double their pay with no need to discuss about minimum wages. Why? Because cost of labour remains unchanged.

[kannot]

I bet "Wilai" has a nice new phone and his Wife, probably got a car or new bike too wonder how is his smoking/drinking? ...................what Ive seen of Thai workers is they really want as much money as they can screw off you and in return want to do bugger all for it.

[kannot]

Been there done that it is hard yes so what I did was take on a second job and went to college part time for a few years My reward was after those few years was down to one job at three times I was making before. So living standard went up again and so did expenses So ended again a second job and saved every penny till enough to go on my own. Well back to one job but the hours it took to run it were long vacation Not a day for 20 years reward retired and well off now. It is about choices plain and simple.

are you quoting as a thai...i doubt that...get real remember where you are..not everyone has chances or choices do they..i doubt one of your so called jobs involved working in a field in the hot sun...YOU WILL SAY YOU DID just so you dont lose your superior farang face..

Thais simply wont work in the fields by me, you have to hire Burmese. My rates of pay are 12000 baht for a man and 6000 for a woman but her only job is cleaning, maximum half a days work for her.......Thais simply wont do it here, however I tell my staff start at 6 am stop at 10-30 am then resume at 4 until 7 pm to keep them out of the worst of that hot sun...............Im probably too kind!!

[robblok]

What many people in here don't get is that while everyone could get rich, not ALL can get rich at the same time. We do need someone to clean up the trash, to do the laundry, to plant your rice etc. And paying these people only 9 dollars a day is just extremely unfair.

You guys go on about "get skills", "get educated", "setup a small business". Again, this will work only for some, but not for all. Do you have no compassion? Some people are just not that smart and will only ever be a maid or a labourer. But is that any reason to exploit them?

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Sorry but smart people just make more money. Fact of life and it will always be this way. If you like it any other way try communism.. that did not work. Because people are lazy, if we all get the same money.. why educate ourselves.. why work hard.. no reason.

[wump]

Oh, you are offering just over 12$ a day for them to hang out at your place for 13 hours. How very kind of you!

[kannot]

What many people in here don't get is that while everyone could get rich, not ALL can get rich at the same time. We do need someone to clean up the trash, to do the laundry, to plant your rice etc. And paying these people only 9 dollars a day is just extremely unfair.

You guys go on about "get skills", "get educated", "setup a small business". Again, this will work only for some, but not for all. Do you have no compassion? Some people are just not that smart and will only ever be a maid or a labourer. But is that any reason to exploit them?

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Sorry but smart people just make more money. Fact of life and it will always be this way. If you like it any other way try communism.. that did not work. Because people are lazy, if we all get the same money.. why educate ourselves.. why work hard.. no reason.

The problem is many simply work so badly so slowly etc that they really arent worth anything Id happily give a good worker more many are just bone idle.

[NeverSure]

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Productivity. Work ethic. Teamwork. Lack of need to ship parts and materials in while paying high import duties for them just to use them in the manufacturing. Here are the productivity numbers for the US. At your 700 baht per hour estimate which I think is accurate, let's crunch some numbers. It looks like it takes about 31 to 35 hours labor to build a car in the US and that's the engine, tranny and everything. That's flying.

I wish I could find numbers for the Thai labor force.

"When (Ron) Harbour adds up all the man-hours it takes to build a car or truck, including stamping, assembly, engine and transmission manufacture, Hyundai was seventh of seven majors, at 35.1 hours per vehicle in North America. Ford Motor Company was sixth, at 33.88 hours, a 3.7-percent improvement over last year, Nissan was fifth, at an estimated 32.96 hours, or 8.8 percent more time than the previous year, and GM was fourth, at 32.29 hours, a 0.2-percent improvement. Honda was third, at 31.33 hours, a 2.3-percent improvement." LINK

Auto manufacturing has been opening in the US in droves and there are now 13 difference makes manufactured there including BMW and Mercedes, Volkswagen, Korean and Japanese brands, the traditional American brands...

The Thai government gets a lot of what could be workers' money in the form of customs and regulations and excise taxes that make it very hard to do business. There are no such costs in the US and the labor force is entirely different.

Cheers

[robblok]

Oh, you are offering just over 12$ a day for them to hang out at your place for 13 hours. How very kind of you!

I have no maid and am not paying anyone 12$ a day to hang out at my place.

Anyway you do with your life what you think is right and I do with my life what I think is right. People love making decisions about other peoples money (socialism / communism)

So to start a good example give all your money away to others then we talk again.

[wump]

What many people in here don't get is that while everyone could get rich, not ALL can get rich at the same time. We do need someone to clean up the trash, to do the laundry, to plant your rice etc. And paying these people only 9 dollars a day is just extremely unfair.

You guys go on about "get skills", "get educated", "setup a small business". Again, this will work only for some, but not for all. Do you have no compassion? Some people are just not that smart and will only ever be a maid or a labourer. But is that any reason to exploit them?

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Sorry but smart people just make more money. Fact of life and it will always be this way. If you like it any other way try communism.. that did not work. Because people are lazy, if we all get the same money.. why educate ourselves.. why work hard.. no reason.

So you don't think there is a middle ground? I was merely pointing out that many companies probably could afford to pay more, they just don't have to so they won't do it. Market forces don't always work, especially if there is an oversupply of workers.

I never said that the Toyota boss or shift supervisor should get the same as the workers. I only said it would be fair to pay them a decent wage and the minimum wage certainly isn't if you consider that they make expensive cars and actually work.

[robblok]

What many people in here don't get is that while everyone could get rich, not ALL can get rich at the same time. We do need someone to clean up the trash, to do the laundry, to plant your rice etc. And paying these people only 9 dollars a day is just extremely unfair.

You guys go on about "get skills", "get educated", "setup a small business". Again, this will work only for some, but not for all. Do you have no compassion? Some people are just not that smart and will only ever be a maid or a labourer. But is that any reason to exploit them?

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Sorry but smart people just make more money. Fact of life and it will always be this way. If you like it any other way try communism.. that did not work. Because people are lazy, if we all get the same money.. why educate ourselves.. why work hard.. no reason.

The problem is many simply work so badly so slowly etc that they really arent worth anything Id happily give a good worker more many are just bone idle.

Correct.. I don't mind paying for quality.

[kannot]

Oh, you are offering just over 12$ a day for them to hang out at your place for 13 hours. How very kind of you!

Assuming this was aimed at my reply???? (quote function) then YES and my Thai neighbours say im paying them TOO MUCH.

Hang out? nope, from 10.30 am to 4pm they can do what they like, they get Sundays off.

Ill be clear for you

1 Free motorbike with free fuel unlimited

2 Free rice

3 free house

4 free fish unlimited fish ar 60cm long

5 free fruit inc papaya mango banana pineapple fuk and others

6 Sunday off

7 18000 baht per couple

8 free electric

9 free water

Ask any locals if they get that.

[robblok]

What many people in here don't get is that while everyone could get rich, not ALL can get rich at the same time. We do need someone to clean up the trash, to do the laundry, to plant your rice etc. And paying these people only 9 dollars a day is just extremely unfair.

You guys go on about "get skills", "get educated", "setup a small business". Again, this will work only for some, but not for all. Do you have no compassion? Some people are just not that smart and will only ever be a maid or a labourer. But is that any reason to exploit them?

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Sorry but smart people just make more money. Fact of life and it will always be this way. If you like it any other way try communism.. that did not work. Because people are lazy, if we all get the same money.. why educate ourselves.. why work hard.. no reason.

So you don't think there is a middle ground? I was merely pointing out that many companies probably could afford to pay more, they just don't have to so they won't do it. Market forces don't always work, especially if there is an oversupply of workers.

I never said that the Toyota boss or shift supervisor should get the same as the workers. I only said it would be fair to pay them a decent wage and the minimum wage certainly isn't if you consider that they make expensive cars and actually work.

I was here last time they increased the minimum wage.. everything got more expensive (it was almost doubled) and still nobody was happy (as everything got more expensive). So no I dont think raising salary without improving productivity is a good idea.

[kannot]

What many people in here don't get is that while everyone could get rich, not ALL can get rich at the same time. We do need someone to clean up the trash, to do the laundry, to plant your rice etc. And paying these people only 9 dollars a day is just extremely unfair.

You guys go on about "get skills", "get educated", "setup a small business". Again, this will work only for some, but not for all. Do you have no compassion? Some people are just not that smart and will only ever be a maid or a labourer. But is that any reason to exploit them?

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Sorry but smart people just make more money. Fact of life and it will always be this way. If you like it any other way try communism.. that did not work. Because people are lazy, if we all get the same money.. why educate ourselves.. why work hard.. no reason.

So you don't think there is a middle ground? I was merely pointing out that many companies probably could afford to pay more, they just don't have to so they won't do it. Market forces don't always work, especially if there is an oversupply of workers.

I never said that the Toyota boss or shift supervisor should get the same as the workers. I only said it would be fair to pay them a decent wage and the minimum wage certainly isn't if you consider that they make expensive cars and actually work.

IF you could guarantee each worker could make the same amount of cars ie root out the skivers/slow workers then maybe, when it comes to work on the land the problem is many are lazy and once u aint there work stops, I'd say 1-10 is a good worker

[wump]

I just don't get why so many think 300 Baht is a fair wage. It's not... it's nowhere near enough. And why is everyone screaming 'communism'? Not exploiting the lowest members of the working society is communism or what?

[kannot]

I just don't get why so many think 300 Baht is a fair wage. It's not... it's nowhere near enough. And why is everyone screaming 'communism'? Not exploiting the lowest members of the working society is communism or what?

your right 300 aint fair ........................many arent worth 100 a day!!!

The fact is even if you paid the lazy ones 1000 a day they would NOT change

Edited May 2, 2015 by kannot

[rufanuf]

If your income is only 300 baht a day, you should know you are not in the category to father 3 kids! It is that simple.

If you earn 300bht a day you don't have the education to know what category your in.

[robblok]

I just don't get why so many think 300 Baht is a fair wage. It's not... it's nowhere near enough. And why is everyone screaming 'communism'? Not exploiting the lowest members of the working society is communism or what?

Were you here when YL increased the minimum wage by 50% -100% ?

Did you see that everything became more expensive and the same people with ther 50-100% increase still could not make it ?

You can't just increase minimum wage across the board without increase in productivity. Because it influences it all and wont work.

[MrWorldwide]

I posted once that I doubt most Farang would last a single shift on a Thai construction site and was told that the majority of the hard work on those sites is done by Cambodians and Burmese, so I'll leave this one alone. Its for the Thais to sort in any case - foreigners living here have no say in how much people get paid or what that will mean for the cost of living.

[DLock]

What many people in here don't get is that while everyone could get rich, not ALL can get rich at the same time. We do need someone to clean up the trash, to do the laundry, to plant your rice etc. And paying these people only 9 dollars a day is just extremely unfair.

You guys go on about "get skills", "get educated", "setup a small business". Again, this will work only for some, but not for all. Do you have no compassion? Some people are just not that smart and will only ever be a maid or a labourer. But is that any reason to exploit them?

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Sorry but smart people just make more money. Fact of life and it will always be this way. If you like it any other way try communism.. that did not work. Because people are lazy, if we all get the same money.. why educate ourselves.. why work hard.. no reason.

So you don't think there is a middle ground? I was merely pointing out that many companies probably could afford to pay more, they just don't have to so they won't do it. Market forces don't always work, especially if there is an oversupply of workers.

I never said that the Toyota boss or shift supervisor should get the same as the workers. I only said it would be fair to pay them a decent wage and the minimum wage certainly isn't if you consider that they make expensive cars and actually work.

I was here last time they increased the minimum wage.. everything got more expensive (it was almost doubled) and still nobody was happy (as everything got more expensive). So no I dont think raising salary without improving productivity is a good idea.

Good post.

I was also here when they raised the minimum wage, but I saw the writing on the wall and closed down Thailand and moved to Vietnam before it happened.

I studied economics. I knew what would happen, and just as you said, prices increased and the minimum wage was gobbled up pretty quickly.

And here we are again....and if they get the minimum wage increase, we will be here in 2 years. It's never ending.

Basic economics suggests that any increase in wage MUST be accompanied by an increase in production to HELP offset the increased wage costs.

So many people just don't understand the ramifications of raising the minimum wage. They get emotional and illogical. "You try living on 300 baht" type comments are stupid and shows ignorance for Thailand as a developing nation surrounded by developing nations with MUCH lower salary and cost structures.

The Government says in 2 or 3 years there will be a shortage of 300,000 - 600,000 jobs. Thats a good thing. Employers will have to pay more to get and retain staff. Wages will go up. It's called the free market.

Manipulating wages and forcing employers to pay more has ramifications.

But feel free to do it. I could care less. It just drives more and more business to Vietnam.

[JockPieandBeans]

Basic stuff, toothpaste, toothbrush etc. 200-300/month

Can you please tell me your secret.

Where do you buy your toiletries for 200 - 300 Baht a month ?

I spend that a week on deodorant alone.

[ourmanflint]

If it was not possible to live on the minimum wage, then why are there not millions of people starving and homeless in Thailand? If you were born in Thailand chances are you can easily make do on 300 baht per day, what you cannot do though is buy your kids ipads and iphones & pay the HP on your new pickup. This is what this is really about. it is not about surviving on 300 baht per day it is about aspiring to be something else on 300 baht per day.

How do you compare what 300 baht per day gets you when compared to living somewhere like London, where many workers see 60-75% of all their earnings go in rent, the same would not be anywhere near true in Thailand where the cost of renting for a thai in a property of similar size to one in London would be less than 30% of his monthly wages and maybe only 15%.

As many have pointed out the west relies on workers in other countries being paid what seems like very poor wages to them, if production costs rise in these countries then corresponding wage rises should also happen in the west to cover rising costs. Only it hasn't been that way for nearly twenty years now, wage rises in the west have stagnated at zero percent for as long as I can remember.

In the end it is the purchasing power of western economies that will determine what workers in other economies will be paid unless they disentangle themselves from the grasp of globalization.

Asean is a huge step forward in this, I only hope the Thais see it for what it really is.

[wabothai]

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At least there is something like a minimal wage. We live in Singapore and have a very good life. However I often feel a bit ashamed if I see all the maids, security and construction workers making just 400-500 SGD/mth. From a highly developed and wealthy country you would not expect this.

We also must be careful with making comments that it is their own fault ect. Those people are the lowest ranked and it is very easy to say what they should do. If you have little you live by the day. If I see all the westerns coming to Thailand living on a budget or teaching for 70K a month, one paycheck away from backruptcy you can also wonder why they did not make a more descend living with all the opportunities they have had.

Ahhh...I remember an observation of Thai workers in Singapore. It was in 1988. A team of 12 workers with a Malaysian foreman had to pour over 500 cu. metres of cconcrete for the base of a fuel storage tank at the airport, using a concrete pump.

Fast forward two years later, in 1990. Concrete has to be poured to a mass foundation of a condo up on Pattaya Hill. The team used was 24 Thai workers with a Thai foreman. Pouring is by a sliding ramp as the foundation is almost 2 metres below the roadway.

I seen 12 Thai workers working non-stop in Singapore to get the job done. The 24 workers in Pattaya was divided into 2 teams. One team worked and the other team sat and watched. After an hour, they switched.

Thai workers in Singapore earn about double the wage rate of Thailand, after forex conversion. But cost to place concrete in both countries is the same.

Why are Thai workers more productive when working overseas?

because they are working overseas with better overseers.

[wabothai]

I am offering work all the time. no interest other than full employment, sorry, pay check.

Like this week is party week, see you after the party.

I have given up.

Just to make a point. I can write a book about that.

[Jimbo1964]

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I do not pretend to know about the situation in Bangkok and some of the larger cities in the south.

There are a few things about minimum wage I know to be true here in the north I have never seen mentioned on a TV post before that I think should be known.

1) Most people who work for Min wage are required to work 12 hours per day to get that 300 baht

.

2) Most min wage jobs require the worker to work 6 days per week.

That breaks down to 25 baht per hour.

A 72 our week pays 1800 baht

or 7,200 baht per month

3( Another important fact I never hear mentioned is that farm labor (working in the hot sun 12 hours per day ) does not pay 300 baht per day.

Farm labor is only paid 200 baht per day....legal or not, that is the fact in northern Thailand.

Can you imagine trying to support yourself on these wages with only one day per week off to take care of business at home?

Now, try to imagine supporting a family on these wages...even with two adults working 6 days per week!

300 baht minimum wage is for 8 hours work, not 12. Security guards work 12 hours and normally get paid 450 baht per day, anything over that they get overtime of 1.5 of their hourly rate.

By law if workers, with the exception of security guards, work more than 8 hours they get overtime at a rate of 1.5 - 2 or 3 times the hourly rate and if they work on their day off they get double time, double time on public holidays, triple time for overtime.

Some workers get less because of illegal practices by some employers, but the employer gets caught then they are liable for a big fine, however Thai workers often do not complain to the department of labour, because it takes time and the worker would rather get another job and earn some money than (how they see it) waste time complaining.

If workers actually took time to complain, many Thai services companies would go out of business and the employment standards would rise. Also many companies employing services companies, for example would need to pay more for their services, however often they turn a blind eye because they don't care, they just want cheap services.

[h90]

What many people in here don't get is that while everyone could get rich, not ALL can get rich at the same time. We do need someone to clean up the trash, to do the laundry, to plant your rice etc. And paying these people only 9 dollars a day is just extremely unfair.

You guys go on about "get skills", "get educated", "setup a small business". Again, this will work only for some, but not for all. Do you have no compassion? Some people are just not that smart and will only ever be a maid or a labourer. But is that any reason to exploit them?

As for Toyota, how come in production lines in other countries they can afford to pay 700 Baht an hour, yet in Thailand they won't even pay 70 Baht an hour? It's not like - even before tax - the cars are any cheaper in here? The answer: Because they can.

Sorry but smart people just make more money. Fact of life and it will always be this way. If you like it any other way try communism.. that did not work. Because people are lazy, if we all get the same money.. why educate ourselves.. why work hard.. no reason.

Even in communism they had to change that. On important jobs people lived in different cities which had West Shops. So they got more for harder, smarter working.

[SiSePuede419]

"Can you imagine trying to support yourself on these wages..."

I got news for you, Princess.

I can not only imagine it, I know several people who live on less than 100B a day.

In America. Yes, you read that correctly.

The United States of America.

If it's possible in America, you're telling me it's impossible or a hardship in Thailand?

It all depends on how you want to live, your expectations and social infrastructure. To a small minded foreigner incapable of thinking outside of a extremely small and limited box, I can see why it must be unimaginable...

[h90]

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I do not pretend to know about the situation in Bangkok and some of the larger cities in the south.

There are a few things about minimum wage I know to be true here in the north I have never seen mentioned on a TV post before that I think should be known.

1) Most people who work for Min wage are required to work 12 hours per day to get that 300 baht

.

2) Most min wage jobs require the worker to work 6 days per week.

That breaks down to 25 baht per hour.

A 72 our week pays 1800 baht

or 7,200 baht per month

3( Another important fact I never hear mentioned is that farm labor (working in the hot sun 12 hours per day ) does not pay 300 baht per day.

Farm labor is only paid 200 baht per day....legal or not, that is the fact in northern Thailand.

Can you imagine trying to support yourself on these wages with only one day per week off to take care of business at home?

Now, try to imagine supporting a family on these wages...even with two adults working 6 days per week!

300 baht minimum wage is for 8 hours work, not 12. Security guards work 12 hours and normally get paid 450 baht per day, anything over that they get overtime of 1.5 of their hourly rate.

By law if workers, with the exception of security guards, work more than 8 hours they get overtime at a rate of 1.5 - 2 or 3 times the hourly rate and if they work on their day off they get double time, double time on public holidays, triple time for overtime.

Some workers get less because of illegal practices by some employers, but the employer gets caught then they are liable for a big fine, however Thai workers often do not complain to the department of labour, because it takes time and the worker would rather get another job and earn some money than (how they see it) waste time complaining.

If workers actually took time to complain, many Thai services companies would go out of business and the employment standards would rise. Also many companies employing services companies, for example would need to pay more for their services, however often they turn a blind eye because they don't care, they just want cheap services.

yes the employment standard would rise. The unemployment rate would increase dramatic, all the prices would increase dramatic.

Often the business don't pay correct for overtime, but also don't complain about someone sleep, someone has a bad hangover, someone drink in the working hours.

Our foreman here worked for a large factory before and told me unbelievable stories......full check of all bags for Lao Kao in the morning. They got a system running of lao kao is thrown over the fence and for a while no one figured out while the labor get dumb and dumber as later it gots in the afternoon. Beside that drunks are a safety risk.....

In Europe at the second time drunk on the job you'll be kicked out. In Thailand you just a low salary....

[Don Mega]

"Can you imagine trying to support yourself on these wages..."

I got news for you, Princess.

I can not only imagine it, I know several people who live on less than 100B a day.

In America. Yes, you read that correctly.

The United States of America.

If it's possible in America, you're telling me it's impossible or a hardship in Thailand?

It all depends on how you want to live, your expectations and social infrastructure. To a small minded foreigner incapable of thinking outside of a extremely small and limited box, I can see why it must be unimaginable...

Iam curious as to how one "lives" on $3.00 per day ($91.00 per month) in the USA, can you elaborate a bit more on this for me please.

[edhart]

iv never made any money going to work