Schengen visa for Germany - VIDEX

[sandyf]

I touched on this topic in another thread but as it is likely to be ongoing felt that it should have its own. This thread is related to the situation regarding family members of EU nationals and has no bearing on standard applications.

The German embassy in Thailand, and I presume worldwide, uses an online interactive form known as VIDEX to prepare the Schengen visa application. At the end of the form there is a question that asks if the applicant is related to an EU,EEA or CH citizen. I think it has 4 answers on the drop down,'spouse' being one of them. Unlike other questions on the form, when you select an answer no fields are available to enter details of the person concerned.

Consequently when the application form is printed Field 34 is blank, and anyone who has done it will understand the significance. For those unfamiliar with the application form, this statement appears at the bottom of the page.

"The fields marked with * shall not be filled in by family members of EU, EEA or CH citizens (spouse, child or dependent ascendant) while exercising their right to free movement. Family members of EU, EEA or CH

citizens shall present documents to prove this relationship and fill in fields no 34 and 35"

This is a standard statement that appears on all Schengen visa application forms. When printed out, what you get is a tailored version with all text in German/English and a section for official use in German only.

By submitting the form with field 34 blank you are effectively submitting a standard application.

The other point in question is Fields 31,32 and 33 which are marked by an asterisk. They are as follows:

31 - Where you are staying, hotel etc.

32 - Details of any organisation involved

33 - Who is going to be paying

According to the statement shown above, these questions need not be answered by family members, but with VIDEX there is no way of avoiding 31 & 33. If you do not answer in the way that they want then you cannot complete and print the application. The attached PDF shows how Field 33 is displayed on the application form.

I have completed Field 34 manually but I suspect it will be of little consequence. When you print the application form you also get a page at the end which has the application details in machine readable format, so obviously anything you add on is not going to be included.

Will have to wait and see what they say at the embassy.

application page 4.pdf

[Donutz]

Filling out some fields by hand, or just using the standard generic Schengen application form, should be fine.

[sandyf]

On the 4th may I sent this email to German Immigration in Berlin.

Dear Sirs

I am from the UK and live here in Thailand with my wife of seven years. In June we plan to visit

my son in the UK and then travel on to Canda to see my brother. On return from Canada we will

stay in the UK for about 2 weeks before returning to Thailand.

During that time in the UK we have planned to visit Cologne for 3 days and understand that as a

Thai national my wife will require a visa for the visit.

I checked the information on the Bangkok German Embassy website and followed the

instructions but have run into a problem.

The instructions were to complete an interactive for VIDEX and then print off the application

form. When I did this Field 34 came out blank and I cannot see any way to enter the required

information on VIDEX. This statement appears at the bottom of the page.

"The fields marked with * shall not be filled in by family members of EU, EEA or CH citizens

(spouse, child or dependent ascendant) while exercising their right to free movement. Family

members of EU, EEA or CH citizens shall present documents to prove this relationship and fill in

fields no 34 and 35"

Without the information appearing in Field 34, I cannot see how the application can be

submitted as the family member of an EU citizen.

Can you please advise and I thank you for the assistance in this matter.

Regards

As of last Friday I had no response so I sent a reminder and late on Friday received the following:

Dear Sir:

Thank you for contacting the Help Desk of the German Foreign Office.

We have forwarded your first mail on May 4 to the German Embassy in Bangkok
and as you haven't received any answer by now we have just reminded them. We
hope you will get an answer soon from them.

Sincerely,
Your Help Desk Officer

On Monday I received a response to the reminder I had sent on Friday.

Dear Mr. xxxxxx

thank you very much for e-mail dated May 16, 2015, which I already forwarded to the German Embassy in Bangkok. As soon as I receive an answer, I will get back to you immediately.

Best regards
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Im Auftrag
Steven Bichat

Auswärtiges Amt
Referat 509 - Visumrecht
11013 Berlin
Tel.: 030 1817- 1159 (Mo, Di, Fr von 9.00h bis 12.00h)
Fax: 030 1817-5-1159
E-mail: [email protected]
www.diplo.de oder www.auswaertiges-amt.de

It would appear that nobody in Germany wants to get involved so they bounce it back to the Bangkok embassy, who no doubt will at some point say they need to refer it back to head office.

Edited May 20, 2015 by sandyf

[Donutz]

The e-mail adres is JUST-CITIZENSHIP[at]ec.europa.eu but I added spaces so searchbots won't recognize it too easily.

Good to hear you filed a complaint! I'd be interested in their response.

I sent the Germans a mail of my own, asking them what I as a Dutch citizen with Thai wife would need for a visa to Germany (my wife has residence in NL, so obviously I won't need a visa for my wife but I'm trying to lure them out). Already prepared a response too which I'd CC- to the European Commission:

Dear German embassy,

Thank you for your response, unfortunately the instructions you gave me are false. non-EU family who travels or joins the EU/EEA national only need to proof that:
- They are family (such as marital papers which may need to be legalized and translated if the embassy is unsure if the document is authentic, the embassy should also consesider alternative evidencee though
- ID of the non-EU and EU national (passports)
- That they will travel together or join eachother (could be a written statement from the EU spouse for instance).

The requirements you mentioned such as travelinsurance, means of support, evidence of return, itinerary, flight reservation, hotel booking, letter of company (if any) etc. cannot be asked!

The Schengcode and application form are very clear on this:

3.7. Burden of proof
The burden of proof applicable in the framework of the visa application under the Directive is
twofold:
Firstly, it is up to the visa applicant to prove that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. He must
be able to provide documentary evidence foreseen above as he must be able to present
evidence to support his claim.
If he fails to provide such evidence, the consulate can conclude that the applicant is not
entitled to the specific treatment under the Directive.
Additional documents may not be required regarding the purpose of travel and means of
subsistence (e.g. proof of accommodation, proof of cost of travelling), which is reflected in
the exemption for family members of EU citizens from filling in the following fields of the
visa application form:

Field 19: "current occupation";
Field 20:"employer and employer's address and telephone number. For students, name and
address of educational establishment";
Field 31: "surname and first name of the inviting person(s) in the Member State(s). If not
applicable, name of hotel(s) or temporary accommodation(s) in the Member State(s);
Field 32: "Name and address of inviting company/organisation";
Field 33: "Cost of travelling and living during the applicant's stay".

Source: visa handbook for embassies: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/policies/borders/docs/c_2010_1620_en.pdf

Also, the online applicationform does not allow some of these questions to be skipped:
https://videx.diplo.de/videx/?2

- Questions on where you will stay and who will pay for the trip cannot be skipped even though EU applicants need not answer these questions
- At the end of the form there is a question that asks if the applicant is related to an EU,EEA or CH citizen you can select "spouse" or other categories but you cannot fill in the name if the EU national!
- Filling out the declaration ( http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/contentblob/3761958/Daten/2922822/SchengenBelehrung.pdf ) is pushing things as EU/EEA familymember applications only have to meet a limited number of requirements and this form is most certainly not a Schengen Visacode standard.

Solutions:
- Do not ask documents that cannot be required of EU/EEA applicants
-Provide clear EU/EEA family member instructions on the embassy website (there is no such page now, people are in error reffered to the "tourist visa" page with instructions).
- Fix the online form so it is identical to the standard paper form and questions with an * can be skipped for family traveling with EU nationals.

Kind regards,

...

[sandyf]

I took the email from a previous post where it showed up as a valid link, but looking back that one also has spaces so no good if copied.

[sandyf]

Following the experience of another member at the German Consulate in Phuket I decided to try and get clarification from the embassy in Bangkok.

On the 1st of May I sent an enquiry and then on the 18th of May received the following answer.

thank you for your inquiry dated May 1, 2015.

Your wife requires a tourist visa in order to visit Cologne. Since you are a EU national, your wife will not have to pay the fees for the visa. As for the rest, the visa requirements for your wife´s tourist visa are akin to the visa requirements for tourist visa issued to non-EU nationals.

To apply for a tourist visa, your wife needs the following documents:

• Valid passport (issued within the last 10 years and with at least 3 months validity after the scheduled return) with at least two empty pages
• Application form (https://videx.diplo.de/) and declarations duly signed (http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/contentblob/3761958/Daten/2922822/SchengenBelehrung.pdf)
• 2 passport pictures according to biometric specifications, not older than 6 months
• Personal covering letter with entire travel plan (itinerary), flight reservation, rail tickets, others, proof of accommodation for your entire stay in the Schengen area
• Travel health insurance (Kindly refer tohttp://www.bangkok.diplo.de/contentblob/411506/Daten/4197027/Krankenversicherung.pdf to find out about the travel health insurances accepted)
• Leave letter of your company (if employed)
• Proof of financial status:
If employed: Payslips of the past three months / employment contract
If self-employed: Certificate of Proprietorship or other proof of ownership (proof of land title,
proof of income from agriculture (sales form) etc.)
Personal bank statement of the past three months with sufficient funds
• Further proof of your willingness to return.

As it happened we had an appointment at the embassy the following day and it was as stated in the email, no applications accepted without a full set of documents.

Yesterday I lodged a complaint with the embassy and with Solvit. I have had a response from Solvit to say that the complaint is justified and it would be investigated. I have had to provide some personal information before they will proceed.

[Donutz]

I received a reply, it told me to look at the page " tourist" or " visiting friends" page (in German, which I can read but there is ofcourse also Google translate). The embassy did mention in the mail that we do not need Insurance though this exception is not listed on the embassy webpage and all other exceptions are not mentioned either. So -with some modifications- I mailed the reply I had prepared and CC-ed it to the EU.

[Donutz]

I got a reply to my response about incorrect instructions:

thank you for your Email. I will forward your comments to our headquarter, so they can check the Videx application.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

[sandyf]

Despite what has been said about the Germans, you have to admire their efficiency.

We left the German embassy about mid day on the 19th and the passport was delivered by ems about 72 hours later.

They weren't particularly over generous with the visa, my wife got a multi entrance visitor visa for 4 days. last year we went to Spain for a week and got a single entry for 3 weeks. This is the uniform visa system.

[theoldgit]

Whereas my girlfriend was given a visa valid for fifteen months from the Dutch Consulate, issued free of charge, and with a five day turnaround.

The only documentation submitted was evidence that we were travelling together on the initial trip, copies of our condo lease in Bangkok and my UK passport.

As you rightly say, "this is the uniform visa system".

[sandyf]

Today I received the following email from the German embassy, they also attached a German version of the standard application form. Note the comment regarding appointments. They xxxxed up on our first appointment,refused entry and ushered out of the building at 10am on the 15th, had to go back on the 19th.

Just have to wait and see if they actually follow through on this.

Dear Mr. ,

we apologize for the misunderstanding concerning the Visa application for your wife. As a family member of an EU/EEA or CH citizen she can apply for a Schengen Visa free of charge and she only needs to present the following documents:

• One completed visa application
• Valid passport
• 2 biometric passport sized photograph
• Copy of the an EU/EEA or CH citizen citizen’s passport
• Proof of relation to the an EU/EEA or CH citizen
• Signed statement of the an EU/EEA or CH citizen confirming that your most of the time travelling together

There is no need to make an appointment at the Embassy. She could come Monday to Friday between 07:30 and 10:30 to apply for the visa. Please use the attached application form, she don’t have to fill in the with * marked fields.

Please accept our apologize for the misunderstanding, we are working on a leaflet concerning this subject.

Kind regards

Andreas Grau-Fuchs

Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany
Consular Section

9, South Sathorn Road
Bangkok 10120
Thailand
www.bangkok.diplo.de

[Donutz]

Looks positive enough, I'd like to think (hope?) that your and my complaint about the their (online) instructions, webform etc. helpt to make them change their ways.

[sandyf]

Updates from SOLVIT

2nd June

It would appear from the response you have received that the German Authority has acknowledged the problem and are in the process of amending their literature. They have also informed you of how your wife can apply directly, without waiting and without need for any of the excessive requirements. In order to continue with a complaint, I would need evidence that the work of the Embassy to rectify this problem is not successful, and I am not sure that we can say this at present.

Regards

Christine Korcz

UK SOLVIT Centre

3rd June

I can understand your frustration about a problem that has continued to exist for some time. Although SOLVIT exists to overturn or rectify a specific problem, I think I will leave this case on the database and see how the German Authority responds to the concerns raised. At the very least, if you remain dissatisfied with the response you can use it to make a formal complaint to the European Commission.

Regards

Christine Korcz

UK SOLVIT Centre

[sandyf]

Received the following this morning.

I have received a response from SOLVIT Germany advising that the Embassy has recognised its error and that the practice of asking for excessive evidence will stop. New literature is being created that will inform applicants clearly as to what information they should present, and this will be in accord with EU free movement legislation.

Regards

Christine Korcz

UK SOLVIT Centre
Direct line: 020 7215 2833

[bobrussell]

About time the UK authorities learn what the rules actually are. To qualify for an EEA Family permit the form requires a long list of answers to questions that are specifically not legal to ask!

Unlike the German authorities they have little or no interest in complying with their legal responsibilities! SOLVIT also state that the UK is wrong but admit that there is little they can do about correcting their errors.