No Secret US Prison Here, Thai Officials Repeat

[h90]

Wow very disturbing information Ilyushin, our very own Guantanamo Bay right here.

Does this have any thing to do with the vilolence in the deep south?

You're not suggesting that the reason for the violence in the south is that the US has imprisoned terrorists on Thai soil, are you? Surely not. Nobody could be that dumb.

Don't ask the southern people in my office, what they think about Bush, the connection Taksin-Bush, even they are buddhist, they all tell that it is not the muslim who make the problems....

[ilyushin]

Wow very disturbing information Ilyushin, our very own Guantanamo Bay right here.

Does this have any thing to do with the vilolence in the deep south?

No the US probably has nothing to with the problems in the south of Thailand. They (Thai Armed Forces) have their own facilities for informal interviews.

The USN only offered ELINT at one stage and CIA some field agents. This was all published by the way. Not secret either.

[h90]

couldn't agree more.

with a little acceptable collateral damage

we should drop a few nukes on Pattani. Narathiwat etc.

simple, problem gone!

and while we're on a roll,

lets nuke Baghdad, Tehran, south Lebanon, all mountains in Afghanistan,

all of southern Philippines..

take a day's rest

oh, I forgot North Korea,

we'll do that tomorrow.

sorry don't nuke the places with oil....

[womble]

Hambali was captured in Thailand, so we now know at least 2 who were probobally kept in secret prison here.

We'll know how long when the united states tells us when they arrived.

[Diablo Bob]

Ban Chang has a secret US prison? Who said that?

Wash Post

ABC News

where did you read "Ban Chang"??

Could not find it

You have to read between the lines. Only two places in Thailand would have the proper facilities to cover a blck op. U-tapao or Udon.

Correct, but not totally........

When you talk CIA and Black Operations, you must forget Udon. The black operations base from the 60s and 70s was Tahkli in Lop Buri. It is still restricted airspace within 10Km of its' perimeter. The actual base has a kill zone of more than a click around it...... and it was used as a CIA prison for the Laos operations by Air America.

I would eliminate U-Tapao also, it is an International airport, I have driven my car onto the tarmac to load luggage into a Cessna 210. I pretty much have driven evry nook and crany of U-Tapao in my Vios.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Diablo Bob

[migrant]

I believe there are a couple places in BKK where chains, whips and restraints are common , but perhaps not what we are discussing

[sriracha john]

UPDATE... an admission now that there were secret US prisons in Thailand...

US admits to torture at secret jail inside Thailand

The United States government has admitted for the first time that it had a secret jail in Thailand where suspected al-Qaeda operatives were flown in to be interrogated, including being subjected to "waterboarding".

Federal prosecutors revealed the details in documents submitted to a court in New York as part of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union.

Prosecutors also revealed that 92 videotapes made and stored in Thailand of the questionable interrogation techniques had been personally ordered to be destroyed by the then head of the CIA, Jose A Rodriguez Jr.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1266...inside-thailand

Edited March 4, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Freedom of Information Act

once again, the Act shines the light on "bad acts"

[sriracha john]

CIA destroyed 92 tapes in 2005

WASHINGTON: The government has revealed for the first time the extent of the destruction of videotapes in 2005 by the CIA, saying agency officers destroyed 92 videotapes documenting the harsh interrogations of two Qaeda suspects in CIA detention.

The disclosure Monday came in a letter filed by federal prosecutors investigating the destruction of the tapes in November 2005.

It had been previously known that officials of the agency had destroyed hundreds of hours of videotaped interrogations, but the documents filed Monday reveal the number of tapes.

The tapes had been held in a safe at the CIA station in Thailand, the country where two detainees - Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri - were interrogated.

The filing of the documents, submitted to a court in New York as part of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union, came as federal prosecutors were wrapping up the investigation into the matter.

The criminal investigation, begun in January 2008, is being led by John Durham, a career prosecutor from Connecticut with long experience trying organized-crime cases.

The order to destroy the tapes was given by Jose Rodriguez Jr., who at the time was the head of the spy agency's clandestine service.

Prosecutors have spent months trying to piece together whether anyone besides Rodriguez authorized the destruction and to decide whether anyone should be indicted in the matter.

The tapes were destroyed as Congress and the courts were intensifying their scrutiny of the agency's detention and interrogation program.

The American Civil Liberties Union is asking a judge to hold the agency in contempt for destroying the tapes.

The destroyed videotapes are thought to have depicted some of the harshest interrogation techniques used by the CIA during the two years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, including the simulated drowning technique called waterboarding.

- International Herald Tribune / 2009-03-03

[gwynt]

Does anyone remember a story in the local paper a few months ago about an American radio station here in Thailand that sits on several rais of land. The authorities showed the property to some journalist that wondered whether it was used as a prison for terrorists.?

The American radio/listening station is outside Udon Thani it was constructed after the Vietnam war a good friend of mine, American, worked as part of the managment team during construction.

[Kan Win]

<Snip>

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1266...inside-thailand

^for the link above^

In the 2005 report, ABC News said Mr Zubaydah was first held in Thailand in an unused warehouse on an active airbase. It also said that after he recovered from life-threatening wounds, incurred during his arrest, he was made to stand long hours in a cold cell and strapped feet-up to a "water board" until he begged for mercy and began to cooperate.

Do we have "cold cells" here in Thailand? thought they where all "hot cells"

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[Scott]

Well the US acknowledges the prisons (or at least a law prevents them from denying it), but Thailand denies it...????

[hammered]

Well the US acknowledges the prisons (or at least a law prevents them from denying it), but Thailand denies it...????

Take a careful look at what exactly was siad and what tense and what wasnt said. That usually is quite telling. Maybe no lies but very carefully worded.

[Scott]

Much like the denial of how the Rohingya's were treated.

[mumbojumbo]

I think that these human rights people should remember the televised beheadings of people shown on Al jezerra(sp), water boarding isnt squat, compaired what these animals do. Take em all and throw them in a pit , and throw pig parts on them everyday, eat or die. Just a thought.

[jackspratt]

I think that these human rights people should remember the televised beheadings of people shown on Al jezerra(sp), water boarding isnt squat, compaired what these animals do. Take em all and throw them in a pit , and throw pig parts on them everyday, eat or die. Just a thought.

But not a particularly bright one - unless you are happy to put yourself on the same level as those doing the beheadings of course

[sabaijai]

Does anyone remember a story in the local paper a few months ago about an American radio station here in Thailand that sits on several rais of land. The authorities showed the property to some journalist that wondered whether it was used as a prison for terrorists.?

The American radio/listening station is outside Udon Thani it was constructed after the Vietnam war a good friend of mine, American, worked as part of the managment team during construction.

There was also the more recent VOA transmission station built (in the 80s? 90s?) in Ban Dung, outside Udon. It may be closed now but the land is still leased by the US government.

What about the urban legend that a building with blacked-out windows in Washington Square, Suk 24, was a detention centre for al-Qaeda suspects?

[mumbojumbo]

The CIA also has a large post up on Doi Sethep, outside Chaingmai--ssshhhh

[thetitan99]

Geneva Convention doesnt apply to those that have no uniform.

than they are civilians, who are inocent till a civil court finds them guilty

If you were running the show, we'd all be converted or dead by now.

[Scott]

I am a strong proponent of human rights, but that said, the military, like the police, sometimes have to do things most of us find distasteful in order to protect others. I don't agree with what they do, and I do condemn gov'ts that decide it's OK. That said, some bad stuff will still happen. Part of the goal has to be to limit it to those who really need it.

Don't know why they couldn't just pump them full of sodium penathol and let them sing like a bird. Dress a few people up in Arab garb and pretend to be their friends.

[Groongthep]

What about the urban legend that a building with blacked-out windows in Washington Square, Suk 24, was a detention centre for al-Qaeda suspects?

This is no urban legend. The CIA has been torturing Osama Bin-Laden with warm Singha and ABBA music at Taffy's Hairy Pie Club since his capture at Tora Bora in 2003. Human Rights Watch International has learned of this unspeakable cruelty but have inexplicably remained silent. In a rare show of solidarity both red shirted Taksin supporters and yellow shirted PAD supporters have attempted to save the good name of Thailand for this outrage by occupying the Mambo Theatre and denying Chinese tour buses access to the transvestite shows. The CIA, of course, denies the allegations.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Groongthep

[sabaijai]

Revelations of secret American torture prisons in Thailand serve as a warning against electoral dictatorship

By The Nation

Published on March 6, 2009

Quite often, the Thai people learn secrets about their own country from abroad. Sometimes these secrets are to do with agreements made by Thai leaders with foreign leaders. Thus it was no surprise at all when US federal prosecutors revealed in a document submitted to a New York court as part of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, that "waterboarding" of terrorist suspects had taken place at a secret jail in Thailand.

Of course, no Thai leader or senior official who was in office during the first term of former leader Thaksin Shinawatra would say anything on the matter.

Since the whole rendition operation occurred in 2005 under Thaksin's nose, he must be held responsible. He had a penchant to do things on his own, and to make decisions without consulting any person.

Thai-US relations, and many other bilateral ties, were often exploited by Thaksin alone. As a former business leader, he knew what the US government really wanted and was willing to accommodate it at all times. When he first came to power in 2001, he displayed an ambiguous attitude toward US involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq. After that he picked up on things quickly and changed his non-committal stance to one of close cooperation with the US on its anti-terrorism campaign.

The secret cooperation between the Thai security forces and US special forces in arresting Hambali, the chief of the Southeast Asian branch of al-Qaeda, was a good case in point. It showed the deep level of undercover cooperation between the two countries.

The Thai people did not know about the arrest at all. Fortunately, the news was leaked to The Nation in August 2003 a few hours before a press conference by President George Bush in Washington DC on the same day.

It must be noted here that under Thaksin, there were many secret negotiations and deals, known only to him and his counterparts. Thaksin made a habit of "four-eyes" meetings to decide on major policies, especially those that would benefit him and his family business directly. Some of the controversial deals included the tax-free sale of ShinCorp to Temasek and the Exim Bank Bt4-billion loan to the Burmese regime. These are just a few examples.

Doubtless, the US took extraordinary steps to reward Thaksin's enthusiasm. George Bush, through his fast-track power, initiated the Thai-US free trade area negotiation ahead of many other important US trading partners. At that time, the US wanted to make a strong point that the FTA negotiation was a political incentive for countries that cooperated with the US in its "war against terrorism".

As it turned out, it was an undertaking that both sides were not ready for. After two years of painful negotiations, the whole thing collapsed. In return, Thailand was the first Asian country to announce that it would send troops into Iraq to help with the reconstruction there. After one year, the Thai government became reluctant to follow up with the second batch of troops because of the ongoing insurgency in the southern provinces of Thailand.

Yesterday, Army chief General Anupong Paochinda vehemently denied the existence of secret prisons. He was right to do so. After all, he was not the Army chief at the time. In any case, any evidence of such makeshift detention facilities, due to the nature of their secrecy and activities, could easily be dismantled.

Suffice to say, Thai-US relations are more than skin-deep. Thailand is one of the US's closest and oldest allies in the region. When the US faces any emergency in its regional strategies, Thailand has always been in the overall picture. Now, however, it will be more difficult for such cooperation to occur again without debate in the Parliament.

Thanks to the 2007 Constitution and the far-sightedness of the charter's drafters, Article 190 prohibits the government from negotiating any bilateral or multilateral agreement without first gaining the approval of the Parliament. The checks-and-balances mechanism, common in developed countries, is pivotal to ensure that there is no conflict of interest, as there were in past practices.

Both bureaucrats and lawmakers have to learn to keep each other informed on matters affecting the national interest. In the future, the mechanism should ensure that secret deals or leader-driven negotiations without oversight will not happen again.

Thai-US relations are very important. The two countries celebrated 175 years of diplomacy last year. But the time has come for Thailand to review its strategic ties with the US to make it a real partnership, more attuned to the new regional environment with the emergence of China and India.

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya is scheduled to visit Washington DC in late April to discuss Thai-US relations. With President Barack Obama occupying the White House, overall American foreign policy, especially in regard to Asian countries, is more forward-looking. US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said that Washington will listen more to its allies and friends. It is thus hoped that a new and fresher Thai-US friendship will emerge soon.

[slimdog]

[since the whole rendition operation occurred in 2005 under Thaksin's nose, he must be held responsible. He had a penchant to do things on his own, and to make decisions without consulting any person.

Just for reference in the Washington post Article which names Thailand as having "Secret Prisons" there is the following quote:

Then the CIA captured its first big detainee, in March 28, 2002. Pakistani forces took Abu Zubaida, al Qaeda's operations chief, into custody and the CIA whisked him to the new black site in Thailand, which included underground interrogation cells, said several former and current intelligence officials. Six months later, Sept. 11 planner Ramzi Binalshibh was also captured in Pakistan and flown to Thailand.

But after published reports revealed the existence of the site in June 2003, Thai officials insisted the CIA shut it down, and the two terrorists were moved elsewhere, according to former government officials involved in the matter. Work between the two countries on counterterrorism has been lukewarm ever since

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0101644_pf.html

[IMA_FARANG]

If there ever were "secret" prisions in Thailand they were closed a while back.

The reason: After the military coup, if there were any "extraordinary renditions" in Thailand, then after the coup the Thai governemnt was considered too shaky and uncertain to carry on such a policy. So, if it existed before that point, it was stopped after the last coup. Too risky that another coup would happen, and reveal some prisoners in a secret jail.

Any such deal witha governemnt requires a stable government, that won't be tossed out by another group.

Now, Singapore, it has a nice stable government, and past historical ties with the U.K.

I'm not saying there ever was something there, but it has the TYPE of stable democratic government the CIA is looking for.

A lot of small offshore islands nearby too, which aren't populated.

[Steve2UK]

"What, never? / No, never! / What, never? / Well, hardly ever!"

(Gilbert & Sullivan fans will recognise the famous lines from "HMS Pinafore")

Give it time - it will come out here, too. After all, it happens in the best of families.......... e.g. :

December 2005

Britain 'has not been asked over CIA flights'

"Unless we all start to believe in conspiracy theories and that the officials are lying, that I am lying, that behind this there is some kind of secret state which is in league with some dark forces in the United States, and also let me say, we believe that Secretary Rice is lying, there simply is no truth in the claims that the United Kingdom has been involved in rendition".

Jack Straw, then Foreign Secretary, December 13 2005 (evidence to Foreign Affairs Committee)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...ticle758102.ece

February 2009

Britain admits rendition of terror suspects

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle5812038.ece

Oops........

You've got to love ( ) The Nation's logic in their article (quoted in Post #52):

"Yesterday, Army chief General Anupong Paochinda vehemently denied the existence of secret prisons. He was right to do so. After all, he was not the Army chief at the time. In any case, any evidence of such makeshift detention facilities, due to the nature of their secrecy and activities, could easily be dismantled".

Maybe it makes sense in Thai?

Edited March 6, 2009 by Steve2UK

[Norrad]

Correct, but not totally........

When you talk CIA and Black Operations, you must forget Udon. The black operations base from the 60s and 70s was Tahkli in Lop Buri. It is still restricted airspace within 10Km of its' perimeter. The actual base has a kill zone of more than a click around it...... and it was used as a CIA prison for the Laos operations by Air America.

I would eliminate U-Tapao also, it is an International airport, I have driven my car onto the tarmac to load luggage into a Cessna 210. I pretty much have driven evry nook and crany of U-Tapao in my Vios.

What are the coordinates, maybe we can Google Earth it. Unless the Thai government military has managed to get Google to censor it.