Looking for American muscle car

starman_tom · May 6, 2015

Hello all,

I'm looking to buy a 1970-1987 Corvette, Camaro, Mustang or a Pontiac. Has anybody seen anything like this for sale in BKK?

Lefthand steering is not a problem, just have to have a legal greenbook and be in OK condition.

Thankful for any leads.

FarangMoto · May 6, 2015

might be woth trying here for some info.

http://www.thaiamericancarclub2014.com/

Thai guy on my street has a Pontiac. Never seen him use it. If I see him I will ask if he is selling.

Edited May 6, 2015 by FarangMoto

starman_tom · May 6, 2015

Awesome thanks!!

arthurwait · May 6, 2015

3 on here if you scroll and click on next page.

http://www.kaidee.com/c1-auto/?q=v8

There's even a couple of Ferrari V8's for Trans Paj.

arthurwait · May 6, 2015

Mustangs.

http://www.kaidee.com/c1-auto/?q=mustang

eaustev · May 6, 2015

also here....

http://www.carkolorclassics.com/#!inventory/c230d

NeverSure · May 6, 2015

You didn't ask but do you know these cars? There really weren't any muscle cars from 1973 until about 1984. they improved through the last half of the 80's ending with the LT-1 GM engine.

A 350 or 365 horsepower 327 from 1962 had a 12:1 compression ratio. Those required premium fuel and something more like 9.5:1 will run hard on regular gas. Additionally those burned leaded fuel with the lead cooling and lubricating the valves and seats. When that lead went away the answer was hardened valves and valve seats. The heads are machined and the seats pressed in.

The cars also got very high rear differential ratios to try to meet the CAFE. This is why GM came out with the 6 speed for the LT-1 Corvettes and Camaros in the late 90's.

The good news is that engines and transmissions remained very interchangeable with only about 3 mounts to swap to swap around any engine. With a straight 6 the radiator bolted in front of the core support because the engine was long, and behind the core support for a V8 or V6. But they fit with only a need for a thicker radiator core to cool the large engines.

I have built so many of those cars I can't even remember. The first was a 1957 Chevy Sport Coupe which was nice, coupled with a wrecked 1962 Vette with a 365 HP 327 and a 4 speed. On that one the frame had to be drilled for the motor mounts due a change in 1958, but then they stayed the same for decades.

Good luck and have fun. If you have any questions PM me. American hot rods R us.

starman_tom · May 6, 2015

Excellent, I'll look at Kaidee.

starman_tom · May 6, 2015

You didn't ask but do you know these cars? There really weren't any muscle cars from 1973 until about 1984. they improved through the last half of the 80's ending with the LT-1 GM engine.

A 350 or 365 horsepower 327 from 1962 had a 12:1 compression ratio. Those required premium fuel and something more like 9.5:1 will run hard on regular gas. Additionally those burned leaded fuel with the lead cooling and lubricating the valves and seats. When that lead went away the answer was hardened valves and valve seats. The heads are machined and the seats pressed in.

The cars also got very high rear differential ratios to try to meet the CAFE. This is why GM came out with the 6 speed for the LT-1 Corvettes and Camaros in the late 90's.

The good news is that engines and transmissions remained very interchangeable with only about 3 mounts to swap to swap around any engine. With a straight 6 the radiator bolted in front of the core support because the engine was long, and behind the core support for a V8 or V6. But they fit with only a need for a thicker radiator core to cool the large engines.

I have built so many of those cars I can't even remember. The first was a 1957 Chevy Sport Coupe which was nice, coupled with a wrecked 1962 Vette with a 365 HP 327 and a 4 speed. On that one the frame had to be drilled for the motor mounts due a change in 1958, but then they stayed the same for decades.

Good luck and have fun. If you have any questions PM me. American hot rods R us.

Hello there and thanks,

No I don't really know these cars to be honest. When I was 11 years old in 1984, the C4 Corvette was my dream car, would be nice to own one now. I still love the "K.I.T.T.-looking" digital dash :-) I figured it would be fairly easy to find parts for the C4 from USA, and since it's not(?) a high tech car I could maybe get it serviced somewhere in BKK. That's the cruicial thing for me, I need to first find a V8 workshop in BKK before I buy.

I saw an early 80's Corvette for sale at 980k baht, it needs a lot of interior attention though. There are probably a 100 nicer and older muscle cars for sale, but I have set a budget to 1 million baht for now.

Anyway, the search continues.

Rdrokit · May 6, 2015

Here are 3 real muscle cars but you will pay over 1 million.

http://old.one2car.com/DODGE_CHALLENGER/K29130086

http://old.one2car.com/FORD_MUSTANG/B15130530

http://old.one2car.com/PONTIAC_FIREBIRD/C01130239

NickJ · May 6, 2015

Jeez Never Sure ....Your a Wrench.....Impressive.

NeverSure · May 7, 2015

You didn't ask but do you know these cars? There really weren't any muscle cars from 1973 until about 1984. they improved through the last half of the 80's ending with the LT-1 GM engine.

A 350 or 365 horsepower 327 from 1962 had a 12:1 compression ratio. Those required premium fuel and something more like 9.5:1 will run hard on regular gas. Additionally those burned leaded fuel with the lead cooling and lubricating the valves and seats. When that lead went away the answer was hardened valves and valve seats. The heads are machined and the seats pressed in.

The cars also got very high rear differential ratios to try to meet the CAFE. This is why GM came out with the 6 speed for the LT-1 Corvettes and Camaros in the late 90's.

The good news is that engines and transmissions remained very interchangeable with only about 3 mounts to swap to swap around any engine. With a straight 6 the radiator bolted in front of the core support because the engine was long, and behind the core support for a V8 or V6. But they fit with only a need for a thicker radiator core to cool the large engines.

I have built so many of those cars I can't even remember. The first was a 1957 Chevy Sport Coupe which was nice, coupled with a wrecked 1962 Vette with a 365 HP 327 and a 4 speed. On that one the frame had to be drilled for the motor mounts due a change in 1958, but then they stayed the same for decades.

Good luck and have fun. If you have any questions PM me. American hot rods R us.

Hello there and thanks,

No I don't really know these cars to be honest. When I was 11 years old in 1984, the C4 Corvette was my dream car, would be nice to own one now. I still love the "K.I.T.T.-looking" digital dash :-) I figured it would be fairly easy to find parts for the C4 from USA, and since it's not(?) a high tech car I could maybe get it serviced somewhere in BKK. That's the cruicial thing for me, I need to first find a V8 workshop in BKK before I buy.

I saw an early 80's Corvette for sale at 980k baht, it needs a lot of interior attention though. There are probably a 100 nicer and older muscle cars for sale, but I have set a budget to 1 million baht for now.

Anyway, the search continues.

1973 was the year that the manufacturers had to meet CAFE (Corporate average fuel economy) and the cars also had to have the 5 mile per hour bumpers. The bumpers were ugly and the cars lost any semblance of power. To meet CAFE they lowered the compression ratios all the way down to about 7:1 by making the combustion chambers in the heads a lot larger, removed vacuum advance and recurved the distributors. The lift, timing and duration on the cams further ruined performance. They put very high gears in the rear ends for economy. The cars were gutless. Overnight the same Corvette 454 engine went from a hot performer to a boat anchor.

Today there is a loophole that if any car is more than 25 years old it no longer has to meet those standards. Engines get rebuilt, distributors and cams get replaced with aftermarket, and so on. Compression ratios are repaired with pop-up pistons. I wouldn't go more than 9.5:1 or it isn't going to run well on today's pump gas. When they were building the hot cars we could still get premium leaded fuel. All of the parts needed to put the engines back to where they should be are available aftermarket, and some from the dealers.

This really isn't a bad deal today because a guy can buy a 1980 Corvette with a dog engine for not too much money and treat himself to a good rebuild + an aftermarket carb and distributor and wind up with a runner even if it is a 350.

Those earlier over square (more HP than cubes) engines really weren't all that great on the street. A 365 HP 327 from 1962 changing to the 340 HP in 1963 had solid lifters that had to be adjusted regularly. The running of those lifters was a cool sound and they have a nice lope but they need some r's to get away from a stop sign. They don't have much if any bottom end and need to get to at least 3500 rpm before you'll feel much power. They really need low rear end ratios to help with that. I wouldn't want higher than 4.11s in one and that isn't going to bring any fuel economy.

If I was on a budget I'd opt for a mid 1970's Camaro with a 350 and go through the engine, ring and pinion, and any paint and upholstery it needed and wind up with a nice looking and strong runner. The 5 mph bumper on these didn't look bad and the cars are very nice to drive. Many have 350's and they are fairly light weight as cars go.

BTW it's pretty hard to beat the Comp Cams 280H hydraulic lifter cam for the street. It has a bit of a lope at idle but starts pulling at around 1500 rpm. It will lower the effective compression ratio by about 1/2 point so build for 9.5 and wind up with 9:1 effective.

Pictures

NeverSure · May 7, 2015

I got into a not-so-pretty debate about effective compression ratios so let me clear that up. Can a cam lower the compression ratio? Of course not but it can lower the effective ratio.

It's a simple matter that if the cam has enough overlap and duration, the intake valve will stay open long enough to let the piston get part way back up on the compression stroke before it closes. If it's late enough, it causes the cylinder to trap less air/fuel mixture, and have less matter to compress.

Some overlap is good because you don't want to shut off the incoming fuel/air too soon because it has enough momentum to keep coming even as the piston leaves bottom dead center, but too much delay and some of that is going to get pushed back into the intake. That's where the effective CR is lowered.

Cheers

NickJ · May 8, 2015

A few years ago maybe about five?? I was driving south out of Bkk and on the righ side of the road about thirty min out there was a parking lot filled with ols muscle cars...dozens and dozens. They were meeti g there as there is a real drag strip set up.

stingray · May 12, 2015

There aren't many "legal registered" muscle cars in TH, unless you have big bucks to spend. 20 years ago i had them all. Trans Ams, Camaros, Challengers, T Birds, etc. But now they are gone. You maybe lucky if you find a rolling project, without engine for 300'k with legal registration.

I stil have a 81' Olds Cutlass 2 door, maybe not a real classic, but overhee there are no choices.

Edited May 12, 2015 by stingray

topt · May 12, 2015

A neighbour of mine currently has a red plated Camaro LZ1 - any idea what that would have cost?

Rdrokit · May 13, 2015

A neighbour of mine currently has a red plated Camaro LZ1 - any idea what that would have cost?

Somewhere between 5 -6 million baht. Must be a rich neighbor. Maybe he will let you drive it. lol

http://old.one2car.com/CHEVROLET_CAMARO/L01140188

Edited May 13, 2015 by Rdrokit

topt · May 14, 2015

A neighbour of mine currently has a red plated Camaro LZ1 - any idea what that would have cost?

Somewhere between 5 -6 million baht. Must be a rich neighbor. Maybe he will let you drive it. lol

http://old.one2car.com/CHEVROLET_CAMARO/L01140188

Thanks.

2 hopes - Bob and............

starman_tom · May 18, 2015

Hi again guys,

Most of you will probably dislike the fact that I now found this 1985 Camaro IROZ-Z for sale. 5.7l engine (305 cui?) 800k baht, from a private seller.

I have had my girl calling the seller and asking a few things, and I am now suspecting that it was partially submerged during the flooding a few years back.

I think this because:

- Price. I saw two other repainted non Iroc's for sale in BKK, 1.3-1.5 mb. This seller said "you'll never find an IROC in BKK at this price"...

- No stereo in it. (cos it was flooded, taken out and not replaced)

- He said new upholstry, looks same as original upholstry. (are floor mats and door panels new too?)

- Engine has been overhauled, some new chrome there too. (Kinda needs to be done to an engine that has been full of water, and who wants to see rusted chrome)

So, I'd like to ask how to find out if it is a flood victim? I'm thinking to peek under the door rubber seals, to spot a level. Also, smell but that would be a dead giveaway so he probably has that fixed by the new upholstry.

If the car was extensively overhauled after a flood, would it still be ok to own? The obvious thing I'm thinking about is trapped water inside the chassi. Does it matter that the water was river/rain water (fresh) and not ocean water?

Bottom line is that I still like this car, and can spend more on it to make it great, even after the things he replaced.

I don't want to ask him now about flood damage, as he seemed a bit annoyed last time she talked to him....maybe he's fed up with tyre kickers coming for a look and not buying it.

What you all think?

Thanks,

Tom

Rdrokit · May 19, 2015

Hi again guys,

Most of you will probably dislike the fact that I now found this 1985 Camaro IROZ-Z for sale. 5.7l engine (305 cui?) 800k baht, from a private seller.

I have had my girl calling the seller and asking a few things, and I am now suspecting that it was partially submerged during the flooding a few years back.

I think this because:

- Price. I saw two other repainted non Iroc's for sale in BKK, 1.3-1.5 mb. This seller said "you'll never find an IROC in BKK at this price"...

- No stereo in it. (cos it was flooded, taken out and not replaced)

- He said new upholstry, looks same as original upholstry. (are floor mats and door panels new too?)

- Engine has been overhauled, some new chrome there too. (Kinda needs to be done to an engine that has been full of water, and who wants to see rusted chrome)

So, I'd like to ask how to find out if it is a flood victim? I'm thinking to peek under the door rubber seals, to spot a level. Also, smell but that would be a dead giveaway so he probably has that fixed by the new upholstry.

If the car was extensively overhauled after a flood, would it still be ok to own? The obvious thing I'm thinking about is trapped water inside the chassi. Does it matter that the water was river/rain water (fresh) and not ocean water?

Bottom line is that I still like this car, and can spend more on it to make it great, even after the things he replaced.

I don't want to ask him now about flood damage, as he seemed a bit annoyed last time she talked to him....maybe he's fed up with tyre kickers coming for a look and not buying it.

What you all think?

Thanks,

Tom

If it is the original engine it would be a 5 liter 305ci. In 85 it was on Car & Drivers Top 10 1985 car list. If it was a flood victim most of the electrical connections will ne corroded. Pull the covers away from the electrical connections and see if their is corrosion. Pull the cover off the fuse box and pull some of the fuses to see if there is any corrosion. Good luck.

starman_tom · May 19, 2015

Thanks. There is so many things I want to pull and check and do, but I don't think that Thai seller will be too happy if I do. Since he's not open about the flood thing...

Spaniel · May 20, 2015

If you're in Bangkok you might want to visit he Classic Car show being held at Seacon Square Mall on Srinakarin Road. I think it is being held until 24 May but better check first. I don't know if any of the cars on show will be for sale but certainly would be a good place to ask around as to what your looking for. Good luck.

starman_tom · May 20, 2015

If you're in Bangkok you might want to visit he Classic Car show being held at Seacon Square Mall on Srinakarin Road. I think it is being held until 24 May but better check first. I don't know if any of the cars on show will be for sale but certainly would be a good place to ask around as to what your looking for. Good luck.

Oh thanks for the info, wish I was home now. But I'm stuck here on the rig until 29th, so I will miss it :-( Hopefully there will be another one in the future.

stingray · May 22, 2015

Don't think you can call this car a muscle car.. Fine car unless you want to do stuff to it...Third gen was ..

In Thailand is no chance to get a real muscle car for a decent price. A 3th gen camaro for 800'k is very expensive, in compare with US, but there is no way to find something similar for this price.

At least it have a powerful engine. The picture shows a 350 cubic (5.7 liter) with the multi point injection, which creates about 280 hp. The 5 liter version had only a TPI injection, with 140 hp, which is under powered.

stingray · May 24, 2015

But with 280 hp, it's quite muscle enough. It's a good looking car. If you be able to find a real muscle car (with a original V8) in good shape, you will pay much over a million THB.

stingray · May 24, 2015

http://www.one2car.com/for-sale/ford-mustang-2dr-bangkok-metropolitan-on-nut/2179364/

http://www.one2car.com/for-sale/ford-mustang-bangkok-metropolitan-on-nut/2254076/

The second one isn't the correct year and the 2.5 liter mentioned in the ad, is maybe a 2.5 liter Toyota engine, i guess.

starman_tom · May 24, 2015

Found this on FB today. Not a word or a pic about the engine though.

Rdrokit · May 24, 2015

http://www.one2car.com/for-sale/ford-mustang-2dr-bangkok-metropolitan-on-nut/2179364/

http://www.one2car.com/for-sale/ford-mustang-bangkok-metropolitan-on-nut/2254076/

The second one isn't the correct year and the 2.5 liter mentioned in the ad, is maybe a 2.5 liter Toyota engine, i guess.

Soooooooooooo over priced. The first one is nice, 351ci engine but 3.5 mi;;ion baht for a 70 Mustang. That would be a little over 100,000US. At best in the US that car would be $30,000. And that second car is a laugh. It's advertised as a 76 and it is a 69. Has a 2.5 liter Toyota 6 cylinder and they want 1.85 million. That car wouldn't;t bring more than $10,000 in the US.

NeverSure · May 24, 2015

Hi again guys,

Most of you will probably dislike the fact that I now found this 1985 Camaro IROZ-Z for sale. 5.7l engine (305 cui?)

I like that car. If you're right about the size it's a 350. Those came with a 305 which is 5 liter.

The reason for that is that IROC racing limits engine size to 5 liters. This is the same reason that the early Z/28 Camaros had a 302 which was a destroked 327 cube engine. Can Am and IROC rules - 5 liters.

If you put a 283 crank in a 327 you got 302 because the 283 had the same bore but a shorter stroke than a 327.

A 5 liter simply doesn't have enough torque to feel strong on the street. The last hot one was the Z/28 which had a 12:1 compression ratio and the Duntov 30/30 solid lifter cam. It didn't begin to develop much power until about 4000 RPM but could run all day at 9,000, no kidding. This is great on a race track but no good on the street.

This is the same cam, compresson and setup as the 340/365/375 hp 327's found in some 62 Vettes. The solid lifters are awesome sounding when running (.030 lash) and the engines lope when idling.

GM had to produce and sell a certain number of those camaros and IROCs to the public because the race rules were that they had to be racing a stock car available to the public.

Edelbrock makes brand new heads for small blocks so that you can match up what you need for compression ratio and get the good (bigger) 2.02" intake valves and larger runners. That's what came on all of the hot small blocks beginning about 62. Use a Comp Cams 280H hydraulic cam instead of the Duntov 30/30 solid lifter cam and it will get streetable but still sound and run tough and hard.

I wouldn't build a 305. I'd find a 350 which will drop right in and use the same heads, intake and all. Torque is very noticeably better which is what gets you away from a stop sign in a hurry.

Cheers

NeverSure · May 24, 2015

Found this on FB today. Not a word or a pic about the engine though.

I bought a black '76 about 15 years ago with its original 455 and 4 speed and it was low mile and clean. They aren't valuable ($4,000 at the time) because that's the worst of the smog era. It was gutless and I didn't do anything about it but sold it not long after. It could have been a runner with that Pontiac/Olds big block. This wasn't a Chevy 454 but rather a Pontiac/Olds 455. It did have the heavy duty clutch, 4 speed and posi rear end but the rear gears were high. New rear ring and pinion and a redo of the engine and that would have run in the 12's.

The black 76 was a Smokey and The Bandit car which is part of why I bought it but it wasn't going anywhere for value. They made too many of them.

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