Can a school force me to pay compensation on leaving a teaching job?

[zoroastra999]

I have been offered a teaching position at a small 'International School'. I haven't signed the contract yet but I am deeply suspicious.

For a start, according to internet comment there is 'high staff turnover and poor morale'.

The contract, which has obviously not been written by a native speaker, is full of serious errors and omissions - and is, in large part, quite incomprehensible.

One thing is sure though - they are afraid that teachers will simply walk out. To avoid this they include a clause saying that a teacher can only leave at the end of a semester - and then only after giving two months written notice. Failure to comply with this clause will result in the teacher having to pay the school eighty-thousand baht in compensation.

They expect me to agree to this before I start. The contract could work out well - but, on the face of it, I'm not prepared to gamble that much money on a positive outcome. I would like to be positive but I need to know what the worst-case scenario would look like.

I have never seen such a clause in a teaching contract before. Can it actually be enforced? What if I don't have that much money? What if I don't tell them where I'm going? Can the immigration authorities detain me at the border until I pay up?

[cornishcarlos]

Re write the contract removing that clause and tidying up the parts you're not happy with. Then present it to them as an alternative. No reason why the contract has to be written by them..

[lovelomsak]

Most Thai teachers have something like that in their contract it is quite common. Half a years pay is the usual. How far they will go to enforce I donot know.

[zeichen]

Giving 2 months notice is standard. Withholding one months salary if you fail to give proper notice is also pretty standard throughout the industry. Depends on what your salary is and what other conditions the school offers. However, this really should be an issue because you should finish your contract. There is no reason not to finish your contract. If you are new to teaching or working in Thailand, then don't take the job.

cornishcarlos had a good point, or you could simply call them up or write to them with certain issues. Before making demands and changes tell them that you understand why things are written that way because of teachers being transient, but if your resume shows consistent contracts and multiple years with the same schools, then you can always negotiate.

[Scott]

I've not seen that in a contract. I have seen where they don't pay, but actually charging you is news to me. If they terminate you, do they then give you 80,000 baht?

The problem for some foreign teachers is that this is not their home country and things happen. Family issues, deaths and other things mean that some teachers can't complete their contract.

[Loaded]

Re write the contract removing that clause and tidying up the parts you're not happy with. Then present it to them as an alternative. No reason why the contract has to be written by them..

[thesetat2013]

I've not seen that in a contract. I have seen where they don't pay, but actually charging you is news to me. If they terminate you, do they then give you 80,000 baht?

The problem for some foreign teachers is that this is not their home country and things happen. Family issues, deaths and other things mean that some teachers can't complete their contract.

How can they make him pay other than withholding his last salary. I think that clause is a scare tactic only to ensure their teachers stay.

[asdecas]

Giving notice is reasonable, though two months is too long given, as someone else states above, that there could be a variety of reasons why you need to terminate the contract early.

The eighty thousand Baht penalty is patently absurd if any of the above circumstances occur.

As said above, rewrite the contract to your satisfaction - or walk away; the comments about the school you have read on the Internet may be biased in some cases but they're an indication that you are probably stepping into a poor employment situation.

[SheungWan]

You might also need to check whether salary payments will always be 80,000 baht in arrears so that the fine can be imposed if and when.....

[Fullstop]

On the other hand ... schools will sack you with NO notice. There is not much honour between farang teachers and schools. If you discover the clause was added because teachers leave them as the conditions are terrible...just leave. Collect your pay at the end of the month and leave. If asked to hand over thousands of Baht... Give them the finger. Getting screwed works both ways.

That's exactly what I had to do a few years ago...also at a small "International School". Maybe it's the same one. Was it near a Bangkok Hospital on Sukhumvit road in a popular beachside city?

EDIT: I might add...that was the ONLY school in 15 years of teaching that I did not give notice to. The conditions truly were that bad. Worthy of another thread if it wasn't a 6 year old story.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Fullstop

[Braddockrd]

In principle, this is simply a contractual agreement between two parties, so it is just a civil matter, which means immigration would not get involved. In fact it means nothing, since you can leave the country at any time. Should they wish to enforce it they could only withhold your salary. They would have to sue you for the balance. If you were to stay in Thailand and did not want to defend yourself in court, a judgement against you would be entered and all they can do then is apply for an order to seize assets or garnish salary. If you were to leave the country nothing would happen. Note that to sue you it would cost them more than 80k. So probably this clause is just to scare you. Now, remember this is Thailand, and if these guys are well connected all they have to do is go to their police connections, pay a bribe and ask them to arrest you. If that were to happen it would be uncomfortable for you for a while until the case went to court, at which stage criminal charges would be thrown out. Again, if you were to leave the country no problem at all. The police would have to have real good connections to stop you at immigration. By the way, I doubt that any "connections" would move a finger for 80k. So to summarize, I would not worry.

[greenchair]

I imagine your gut feeling is sending out several warning signals.

You really need to listen that.

[otherstuff1957]

I would be very wary about taking this job. While it would be difficult for them to actually get 80K from you if you left, I believe that they could refuse to cancel your work permit, which could interfere with your being able to get a new job.

[angsta]

That small international School not in Pattaya has a reputation and a permanent advert on Ajarn.com.

Sounds suspect so if you leave make sure you've been paid first.

[realenglish1]

If you are not paid in arrears then they will have little recourse to this clause.

It is a civil matter so my guess is its their to scare the teachers into compliance unless they have an enforcer named BUBBA walking the halls of the school you should be ok

Just walk

[cruisemonkey]

I imagine your gut feeling is sending out several warning signals.

You really need to listen that.

Agree. The OP should first, and at the very least, speak to a current (or former) employee to find out what the real 'story' is. If all seems well, then negotiate and re-write the contract to both party's satisfaction.

[greenchair]

And you should also be careful.

Sometimes when you give your degree and passport for permits and such. The school will keep your degree. They will tell you, you can have it back when you complete your contract. Of course if you don't, you will need to pay 80,000 or not get your degree back. Never give your original degree or passport to the school. Go with them to the different offices.

the last thong. They tell you, they do not have the schedule until the first day of school (lie) and tell you not to worry.

Then surprise!!!you are home room teacher to 3 classes. Have 30 contact hours with no breaks. Gate duty, Saturday duty, meeting duty. Beware of a contract that tries to get you by the short and curlies. ?????

[Fullstop]

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That small international School not in Pattaya has a reputation and a permanent advert on Ajarn.com.

Sounds suspect so if you leave make sure you've been paid first.

That's the one I was at ...for 1 month. Two other teachers bailed at the same time as me.

AVOID AT ALL COSTS!

[quandow]

I just finished a contract 30 April. Our school withheld 9000 baht to be returned if a teacher completed a contract and gave 2 month's notice. Over the last two years, we've had a HUGE turnover AND morale is about as low as it can get. I am one of three teachers to ever get that 9000 baht back. 80k baht seems completely out of hand and I would suggest you seek life elsewhere.

[FangFerang]

The contract stinks like old fish. The turnover rate is a strong indicator that something is wrong. Don't go there. Lot's of other opportunities.

[Loaded]

On the other hand ... schools will sack you with NO notice. There is not much honour between farang teachers and schools. If you discover the clause was added because teachers leave them as the conditions are terrible...just leave. Collect your pay at the end of the month and leave. If asked to hand over thousands of Baht... Give them the finger. Getting screwed works both ways.

That's exactly what I had to do a few years ago...also at a small "International School". Maybe it's the same one. Was it near a Bangkok Hospital on Sukhumvit road in a popular beachside city?

EDIT: I might add...that was the ONLY school in 15 years of teaching that I did not give notice to. The conditions truly were that bad. Worthy of another thread if it wasn't a 6 year old story.

It's possible they may sack you without notice but unlikely. It's also against labout law and you are guaranteed to win any dispute if they behave like this.

I hear comments like this all the time and when you try to nail a real example of a school that did this, I receive 'I heard, I read' responses. IE I'm not convinced it's at all common.

If schools like you, there's also a good relationship. It's the teachers who have very little cultural awareness that tend to have negative experiences. It's my observation that teachers who have little cultural awareness are rarely aware of this and judge Thai behaviour according to the social mores of their own country. They also tend to be 'teachers' who feel it's fine to walk out without notice straight after payday.

To fire someone labour law stipulates a rigid process. I can't remember exactly but something such as 2 verbal warning and 2 written warnings unless the breach of your employment contract is 'serious'. 'Serious' isn't defined though so there's a grey area which works to the benefit of the employee at the labour office.

[usa4079]

If u leave the school for whatever reason if the school has alreqdy given u a work permit, u cannot leqve the country or get another work permit at another school until this school ends ur work permit with them. So yes i suppose they could force u to pay 80000 u kess u got a lawyer is willing to work for u.

[thailand49]

Personally, it seem you want all the advantages to teaching in Thailand. Yes it is a contract and the reason you must give a two month noticed or pay compensation is like anything else in the western world if you are working as a independent. Basically what I'm hearing from you is if you get a better offer you are gone or the job doesn't work out for you, you run like a baby hell with the kids right!

Again, personally if I was a parent I would stress this so a person who calls himself a teacher like yourself doesn't just pack up and leave when it gets tough. Please name the school so I make sure no one I know goes there in case you do take the job. Thailand do not need teachers like you they have enough problems already!

[thailand49]

I just finished a contract 30 April. Our school withheld 9000 baht to be returned if a teacher completed a contract and gave 2 month's notice. Over the last two years, we've had a HUGE turnover AND morale is about as low as it can get. I am one of three teachers to ever get that 9000 baht back. 80k baht seems completely out of hand and I would suggest you seek life elsewhere.

Maybe it is high due to the fact of the high turnover? It is there to deter future teachers who come to benefit themselves and not the student. Thailand do not need teachers like this International or public.. If they are just going to run when it gets tough they might as well hired one of their own like maybe a Thai male who has abandon their pregnant Thai girlfriend.

[lostinisaan]

The high turnover says it all. There must be really shitty- excuse my language, please- circumstances.

Even if you could change the English version and "help" them to develop their writing skills, the Thai version of the contract will remain the same.

Think twice if you really want to sign such a weird contract. Some of them really reality.

The first school, where I resigned my contract, giving them a 6 week note created some serious problems for me. They started to show their real face, nothing to do with honesty anymore.

When an Aussie then also resigned, the director wanted to "blacklist" him all over the country that he couldn't find employment all over the Kingdom. Of course, was he not successful.

I'm pretty sure there'll be a lot more surprises waiting for you, if you sign up for them. Keep in mind that there're plenty of other schools, seeking teachers. Good luck.

Edited May 8, 2015 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

Giving notice is reasonable, though two months is too long given, as someone else states above, that there could be a variety of reasons why you need to terminate the contract early.

The eighty thousand Baht penalty is patently absurd if any of the above circumstances occur.

As said above, rewrite the contract to your satisfaction - or walk away; the comments about the school you have read on the Internet may be biased in some cases but they're an indication that you are probably stepping into a poor employment situation.

How would that be helpful, if the Thai version remains the same? What goes around, comes around. Seems it's a nasty place to work at.

[otherstuff1957]

I just finished a contract 30 April. Our school withheld 9000 baht to be returned if a teacher completed a contract and gave 2 month's notice. Over the last two years, we've had a HUGE turnover AND morale is about as low as it can get. I am one of three teachers to ever get that 9000 baht back. 80k baht seems completely out of hand and I would suggest you seek life elsewhere.

Maybe it is high due to the fact of the high turnover? It is there to deter future teachers who come to benefit themselves and not the student. Thailand do not need teachers like this International or public.. If they are just going to run when it gets tough they might as well hired one of their own like maybe a Thai male who has abandon their pregnant Thai girlfriend.

High turnover in one year can be attributed to the transient nature of the international teaching business. High turnover year after year either means they cannot screen prospective teachers effectively during the hiring process or they have administrative problems that drive teachers away. Either of these problems means that the school has an incompetent administrative department. Given the punitive nature of the changes to their contract indicated in the post by quandow, I strongly suspect that admin is at fault, as they are just blaming the teachers (whom they hired) rather than looking at other ways to retain their faculty.

Schools in Thailand are highly profitable businesses and are run as such. Teachers, teaching supplies, computers with updated legal software and other educational essentials are often viewed as costs to be reduced to the bare minimum. Beautiful offices and landscaped grounds (both of which are relatively cheap in Thailand) are viewed as marketing tools and serve to give a good impression to prospective parents. If you want to know if a school is good or not, don't look at the landscaping or the fresh paint on the walls, ask how long their teachers have been with them. If more than 50% of their teachers are not at least in their 2nd or 3rd year at the school, just walk out. You have found a school where the owner's greed for short term profit outweighs their ability to invest for a long term profit.

[SlyAnimal]

Things I'd consider:

1/ If I turn down the job, how easily can I find a better or equivalent job before the start of the term? (Is this "international" school on the Thai term dates or international term dates?)

2/ Are you someone who leaves schools mid-term? If not, the clause probably won't come into effect anyway.

3/ Is it enforceable? Probably not unless they deduct money from your salary each month specifically to cover this penalty clause.

With this in mind, I'd personally probably stick with the job (Assuming I was happy with the other details etc), as unless there was a serious problem, I wouldn't leave mid-term anyway.

As I'd only leave mid-term if I felt a school was trying to screw me, which would likely mean that they'd be breaching their contractual obligations anyway, in which case they'd probably be withholding salary anyway lol.

[mike324]

Based on what I observe, the high turnover are either due administration management issues, or crappy teachers who do no wish to take responsibility. Small International Schools are usually run the Thai way, which is more rigid and less western way of doing things, like many have said, there will be cultural clashes if you teach in places like this. Most teachers quite because of this reason, they can't stand the Thai way of doing things, being told how to teach, or the criticism administration dish out to teachers.

If you are already thinking about ways to break the contract if something goes wrong, shame on you for even thinking like that. The clause is quite reasonable. Penalties are in place so teachers will actually enforce and respect the contract, or else many will just leave in the middle which is unfair for the school and students. Penalties allows the students to finish their semester smoothly without disruptions. 2 month notice is not too long if you think about the time it takes for the school to hire a teacher and get all the work permit sorted out.

The other reason I think a school like this would have high turnover is due to hiring low quality teachers due to the schools low budget.

[lostinisaan]

Based on what I observe, the high turnover are either due administration management issues, or crappy teachers who do no wish to take responsibility. Small International Schools are usually run the Thai way, which is more rigid and less western way of doing things, like many have said, there will be cultural clashes if you teach in places like this. Most teachers quite because of this reason, they can't stand the Thai way of doing things, being told how to teach, or the criticism administration dish out to teachers.

If you are already thinking about ways to break the contract if something goes wrong, shame on you for even thinking like that. The clause is quite reasonable. Penalties are in place so teachers will actually enforce and respect the contract, or else many will just leave in the middle which is unfair for the school and students. Penalties allows the students to finish their semester smoothly without disruptions. 2 month notice is not too long if you think about the time it takes for the school to hire a teacher and get all the work permit sorted out.

The other reason I think a school like this would have high turnover is due to hiring low quality teachers due to the schools low budget.

Your post is truly amazing and beyond any logical thinking sequences. I assume that certain “administration management issues” are causing the employment of crappy teachers. Why using “shame on you” when you don’t know much about the real situation? Why so offensive?

The clause is reasonable? C’mon, please give me a break, it isn't reasonable, it’s ulcerated. Are we really talking about the same country now? You should replace penalties with contract obligations that are fair for both. For the employer, but also for the employee.

How can penalties help students to finish their semester smoothly, if the working environment is poisoned by the employer? False promises combined with “true” lies. I've got three months in my contract, but I’m also aware that my school could and would easily find ways to bypass anything and make things up.

A fair school will find a teacher in a very short period of time, also called the reputation of the school. Please see the reality and consider how many schools don’t even want to provide all the docs for a work permit.

Your last sentence should enable you to receive the Pulitzer, or at least the Wurlitzer Prize for human curiosity. “Low quality teachers”, due the school’s low budget? Sounds like a construction worker who puts bicycle rims and some shimmering lights on his motorbike to make it faster.

The budget is too low, because all the cash goes into the wrong pockets. But even when it turns out to be the case, then they top it by telling people that they can’t pay a higher salary, because so many parents didn't pay the school fee. A very common and cheap excuse at Thai schools.

While the government money for new computers, desks, chairs and other needed utensils easily disappears in peoples’ wallets. Even private schools receive huge sums from the Thai tax payers, but where does the money actually go to?

Life's really too short to waste time, enjoy it. -

Edited May 9, 2015 by lostinisaan