Is there a consensus on best method to move cash?

[marke985]

Hello friends - I'm in the process of trying to figure out the best way to fund my extend stay in SE Asia. My current situation is bounce back and forth between Cambodia and Thailand every 30 days. Maybe a side trip elsewhere now and then.

While in Thailand I will stay primary with a family near Kalasin.

My question is do the banks in Isaan offer a fair exchange rate when converting US dollars? I find a Western Union transfer fee for US dollars to Cambodia very reasonable ($15 fee for receiving $2000 USD), but if I transfer to Thailand, the exchange rate is quite horrid. (30.92) as of today. I received over 33 baht for the USD in Pattaya last week and was very pleased, so I am curious if anyone has experience exchanging inside the banks in the Isaan area?

I would prefer not to carry so much cash so if the misc fees/exchange rates are minimal I would rather just take money out of ATM's in Isaan.

Thanks,

Mark

[gerry123]

if you are talking only banks i think the exchange is the same nation wide as it is administered by the B O T

So should be no different from branch to branch

[ubonjoe]

The exchange rate at banks is the same everywhere in the country.

[CharlieH]

May be of interest if in Bangkok

http://www.superrich1965.com/

[Martyjustice]

Step 1 open an account with Bangkok Bank here in Thailand

Step 2 set up an ACH transfer from your bank ( US ) to Bangkok Bank of New York. Using the account number you got in Thailand.

Only have to pay your banks ACH fee and get the bank rate for the day of the transfer, which is 2 to 3 baht per $ better than WU.

[NiwPix]

Martyjustice is spot on. The exchange rate at the Bangkok bank ( if you have a dollar account and thai account with them ) today was 33.55 per dollar. The official forex was 33.7x if i remember correctly.

Through Bangkok bank is the best / fairest exchange rate I have come across so far.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Step 1 open an account with Bangkok Bank here in Thailand

Step 2 set up an ACH transfer from your bank ( US ) to Bangkok Bank of New York. Using the account number you got in Thailand.

Only have to pay your banks ACH fee and get the bank rate for the day of the transfer, which is 2 to 3 baht per $ better than WU.

The BKK Bank New York to Thailand online transfer route is a pretty good one for Americans.

But, you missed a few details, such as:

1. The BKK Bank New York branch that receives your U.S. ACH transfer charges a sliding scale flat fee, based on the size of your transfer, to send the funds onward to Thailand.

2. The receiving BKK Bank branch where your BKK Bank account is located then charges a 0.25% fee for the incoming transfer, minimum 200 and maximum 500 baht.

With those caveats, it's still likely to be a much better deal than using Western Union or MoneyLink or PayPal, etc. to make an international funds transfer.

As for withdrawing funds from Thai bank ATMs with a foreign bank card, be careful about the 180 baht per withdrawal fee that all the Thai banks charge, as well as a likely foreign currency fee (often 3%) that most U.S. banks charge for purchases and ATM withdrawals made abroad.

It pays to check ahead of time with your home country banks on the foreign fees situation for any non-Thai bank cards that you plan to use in Thailand. A few don't charge any fees, some charge modest fees, and quite a lot charge ripoff fees of 3% or more.

BTW, to the OP, why would anyone need to do a WU transfer of US dollars to Cambodia, when you can directly withdraw U.S. dollars from Cambodia bank ATMs there, since dollars are a core currency for the country???

Edited May 13, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[LindaLovelace]

Consensus rarely produces the best result. I have posted the following before but will post it again.

There is only one way I know of to get the BEST possible exchange rate with NO FEES. In other words you ge the best exchange and ALL your money.

That is it use a Schwab Bank debit card, then to on over the counter VISA debit card cash advance. You get the international VISA excange rate, the best a consumer can get: http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp

An over-the-counter cash advance is just about the only service you can get from a Thai bank without a fee. I always deposit the money (then withdraw it later) so they have incentive to do it. I use a TMB "No Fee" account.

Also, if you choose to make an international withdrawal from your Schwab account at an ATM, very convenient if you are taking 20,000 baht or less, Schwab reimburses all ATM fees. I do not know of any other bank that does that, though somebody may weigh in with the name of one that does.

If you use the Bangkok Bank NY account method mentioned above, a typical transaction carries a $10 fee in NY and a 200 baht fee here, about $16 total. I do not like leaving money on the table for the greedy banks. You also get the bank's exchange rate. But it is very convenient if that is the most important thing to you.

Cheers.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Linda did a good job above of describing the Schwab bank debit card, which is probably the best deal out there for expats for the reasons she explains.

The other thing I'd say otherwise about the post is... Schwab isn't the ONLY bank deal out there available to Americans that charges no foreign currency fee and reimburses other banks ATM fees. There are a number of similar accounts available from other financial institutions, including State Farm Bank nationally and others local or regionally.

Another thing about Schwab: anyone applying for a new account with them needs to make sure you are applying with a U.S. IP address and preferably use a U.S. address for your address of record...

The BKK Bank online transfers route tends to be a better approach when someone needs to move LARGE amounts of money in a single transaction, whereas the Schwab card/Thai ATM approach is excellent for routine use, since ATM withdrawals at Thai banks top out at 30,000 baht per withdrawal from TMB, CIMB and Ayudhya, AFAIK.

One final point: the Schwab ATM fee reimbursements are an excellent perk.. but remember, the accounts are intended for U.S. residents, not foreign residents. So it's probably best to limit the number of $5.50 Thai bank ATM fee reimbursements you incur per month on an ongoing basis. Schwab's policy has no stated limit on the fee reimbursements, but as an expat, you probably don't want to be abusing that perk or draw unwanted extra scrutiny to your status.

[LindaLovelace]

Linda did a good job above of describing the Schwab bank debit card, which is probably the best deal out there for expats for the reasons she explains.

The other thing I'd say otherwise about the post is... Schwab isn't the ONLY bank deal out there available to Americans that charges no foreign currency fee and reimburses other banks ATM fees. There are a number of similar accounts available from other financial institutions, including State Farm Bank nationally and others local or regionally.

Another thing about Schwab: anyone applying for a new account with them needs to make sure you are applying with a U.S. IP address and preferably use a U.S. address for your address of record...

The BKK Bank online transfers route tends to be a better approach when someone needs to move LARGE amounts of money in a single transaction, whereas the Schwab card/Thai ATM approach is excellent for routine use, since ATM withdrawals at Thai banks top out at 30,000 baht per withdrawal from TMB, CIMB and Ayudhya, AFAIK.

One final point: the Schwab ATM fee reimbursements are an excellent perk.. but remember, the accounts are intended for U.S. residents, not foreign residents. So it's probably best to limit the number of $5.50 Thai bank ATM fee reimbursements you incur per month on an ongoing basis. Schwab's policy has no stated limit on the fee reimbursements, but as an expat, you probably don't want to be abusing that perk or draw unwanted extra scrutiny to your status.

As stated above, it is a good idea to limit Schwab ATM reimbursements. However, I have spoken with Schwab reps many times about this and they insist it is a service for all their customers regardless of balance maintained and without limit. I just do not abuse it. Which brings me to:

I specifically mentioned over-the-counter VISA debit card cash advances. There is NO FEE and there is NO LIMIT to the amount you can transfer. I recently transferred 200,000 baht (>$6,000US) twice in successive weeks. The only reason I didn't take a 400,000 baht pull is that the baht was weakening. It turned out to be a smart move, the second 200K pull cost me $100 less.

Most debit cards have a daily limit. I keep mine low for fraud protection. When I want a big over-the-counter debit card cash advance, I simply call Schwab using their international toll-free number, state my intention and have them raise the daily limit to whatever I specify for 24 hours. Then it automatically reverts back to the lower limit.

Anybody can have a Schwab international account (no US address). I do not know what limitations that would impose, but you can have one. I changed my US address to a Thai address with an international account, but found my billpay service blocked. I called Schwab. They were quite apologetic and explained that the Patriot Act did not allow the billpay service for their international customers. During the same call, I changed my address back to the US (my sister) and the bill pay service was immediately reinstated. So there are definitely downsides to the international account. How it might affect a debit card, I do not know, but Pib might weight in n that.

As to the effect of a Thai IP address, all I can say is I do ALL my Schwab business over the internet from Thailand. I haven't set foot on US soil for over 8 years, and nobody has ever said a thing.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You mention some of the issues of reasons to prefer Schwab's domestic accounts vs their international ones. I didn't know about the bill pay provisioning, but another similar issue is having access to U.S. mutual funds out of their brokerage account. With U.S. accounts, you get that access. With international accounts, you don't. Also, last time I checked, there was a $10,000 minimum for opening a Schwab international account, whereas little or no minimum for a domestic one.

As for the U.S. IP issue, if you apply online using a Thai IP address, you're likely to automatically have your account routed to their international status. If you apply with a U.S. IP address, it will proceed as a normal U.S. account application. I'm not aware of any advantage to having a Schwab international account for an American account holder, so most of us normally would prefer the domestic account.

But also, once you have an account, various of their expat customers have reported having their accounts temporarily locked by Schwab's online anti-fraud detection system when having foreign IP log-ins. If that happens, then you have to call Schwab and go thru a series of security/ID verification questions. It's a hassle that's best to be avoided. Although, signing up for and using their password code-generating token apparently is another way to avoid randomly running afoul of their anti-fraud systems.

Edited May 14, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[LindaLovelace]

Never had a problem with Schwab and I have been exclusively in Thailand for over 8 years. I have never had my online access locked. I have had my VISA blocked for fraud protection a very few times. I just call their international toll free number from my Thai mobile phone and they take care of it immediately making a notation on my account that I am in Thailand. Never been on the phone more than 3 or 4 minutes. Can't speak for anyone else, but that's been my experience. I also trade stocks on Schwab online almost daily and have NEVER EVER had any issues with access (except when my internet service is interrupted by my Thai provider).

I regularly use my Schwab VISA debit for over the counter and ATM transactions. I use it rarely to never for point of sale transactions. Too much fraud there and cash works fine.

Schwab is one of the very few American corporations that I would recommend to anybody (I can think of ony one other and it is strictly domestic). Schwab's customer service has always been stellar. I sure as shit would NEVER do business with ANY affiliate of State Farm. If there was ever an evil company, State Farm would be right up there with Allstate. Anybody that trusts an insurance company is an idiot.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The point was... Schwab is a great company to deal with for expats... But they're not the only one that offers comparable features, even if you're not a fan of State Farm. Others here who use State Farm banking services (as opposed to their insurance services) never have had any bad word to say about banking with them. But beyond that, there are other providers as well for no fee, fee-reimbursing debit cards. It's not a one-horse game.

As for counter withdrawals, they are fine and are indeed fee free on the Thai end. But the problem with them has been, according to a lot of member reports here, that various Thai bank staff will simply refuse to honor debit cards for counter withdrawals and instead point you to their ATMs. Not saying all will refuse, and it doesn't seem to even be uniform from bank to bank or company to company. But, enough will, that you never quite know whether it's going to work or not. Plus the additional risk factor of having to carry around your original passport in order to do a counter withdrawal.

At least with ATM withdrawals using a fee-free, fee-reimbursing card like Schwab's and others, 1) you don't have to worry about having the transaction refused, and 2) you don't have to worry about carrying around your original passport which, if lost or stolen, creates a big hassle factor in terms of having to get it replaced and then one's visa or extension stamps restored. Give me an automated ATM over unpredictable and often unknowing Thai bank staff -- any day.

[BKKdreaming]

Does Schwab have an office in Thailand ? Or even Asia if you needed to call and talk with someone in the same time zone or mail something to them ?

I know most of the time you use the Internet but it is nice to have Local offices if available

[LindaLovelace]

The point was... Schwab is a great company to deal with for expats... But they're not the only one that offers comparable features, even if you're not a fan of State Farm. Others here who use State Farm banking services (as opposed to their insurance services) never have had any bad word to say about banking with them. But beyond that, there are other providers as well for no fee, fee-reimbursing debit cards. It's not a one-horse game.

As for counter withdrawals, they are fine and are indeed fee free on the Thai end. But the problem with them has been, according to a lot of member reports here, that various Thai bank staff will simply refuse to honor debit cards for counter withdrawals and instead point you to their ATMs. Not saying all will refuse, and it doesn't seem to even be uniform from bank to bank or company to company. But, enough will, that you never quite know whether it's going to work or not. Plus the additional risk factor of having to carry around your original passport in order to do a counter withdrawal.

At least with ATM withdrawals using a fee-free, fee-reimbursing card like Schwab's and others, 1) you don't have to worry about having the transaction refused, and 2) you don't have to worry about carrying around your original passport which, if lost or stolen, creates a big hassle factor in terms of having to get it replaced and then one's visa or extension stamps restored. Give me an automated ATM over unpredictable and often unknowing Thai bank staff -- any day. As for never knowing whether it will work or not -- I always know it will work.

It is true that some banks can't or won't (maybe don't know how?) do over the counter transactions. But if one olves here and wants to do regular over the counter transactions and other business without problems, one should choose a bank and develop a relationship with them. I have a BKK Bank account (don't rally cre for them, but there are a lot of branches) and a TMK Bank account. One TMB branch gives me nothing but trouble. the main branch treats me like a king, and that's where I go. If you are just walking down the street, going from bank to bank trying to do an over the counter debit withdrawal for no fee, not sure how lucky you'll be. But if you have a relationship with a bank that has a "can do" attitude, it is the cheapest way to bring in money.

By the way, you are required by law to have your passport with you at all times! Did you know that?

That said, the only time I ever even use my passport or take it with me is for immigration matters once a year. Other than that, it sits in a drawer at home. I never use it at the bank. I use my driver license just like I would in the US. There is no risk factor with a passport if you have a driver's license and I would suspect that most folks who have made their homes here have one. In any event, who makes large VISA debit transactions on a regular basis? For 20,000-40-000 baht withdrawals the ATM is far more convenient. But if you want 200,000-500,000 or more in a single whack, over the counter is the cheapest way.

Tall Guy, I have three questions for you since you seem knowledgeable on this subject: (1) Do you have a Schwab account? (2) Have you ever done an over-the-counter VISA debit card cash advance? (3) Do you have a Thai driver's license?

[LindaLovelace]

Does Schwab have an office in Thailand ? Or even Asia if you needed to call and talk with someone in the same time zone or mail something to them ?

I know most of the time you use the Internet but it is nice to have Local offices if available

As far as I know, they do not have an office in Thailand. I just call their 24 hour international toll free number from my mobile phone: 001-800-1165-6066-8.

I get a live person with a "can do" attitude any time day or night (the time zone is irrelevant). Even when I lived in the US, I never went into a Schwab office. the internet and phone was so convenient that driving somewhere and having to park didn't make any sense. I use the Internet to move money between accounts, buy and sell stocks, change beneficiaries, use the bill pay service, etc. For customer service, you can use email, but I ALWAYS call. I like instant gratification.

I can't think of any reason to ever have to mail anything to Schwab. I never have. There is email, and if it is something requiring more security, they will ask you to fax it.

This subject has been beat to death -- again! The OP ask for the best method. that depends on how you define best. An over-the-counter Schwab VISA debit withdrawal (or the same with a similar card) is the cheapest. Going through the Bangkok Bank NY branch is probably the easiest. but both of those are generally for larger transactions.

Since the OP specifically said he preferred ATM's and did not want to carry large amounts of cash, neither of the above are "best" for him. The Schwab debit card with fee reimbursements is for him (or another brand with the same level of service -- if there is one). If you make you transaction in baht, you will get the VISA international exchange rate, which is about the best you can do. Just make sure you card has fee reimbursement. Also, if your card company is not aware you are in Thailand, you should call and inform them or a security block may be placed on your card. Simple matter to call -- especially if the have an international toll free number.

Edited May 14, 2015 by LindaLovelace

[bluebluewater]

I too am a fan of the Schwab debt card. I also have the brokerage acct linked but do not use it. I'm not sure you can have one without the other but that is secondary to the question.

Every three or four months I have my broker to transfer funds to the Schwab acct (no cost for me) and then visit any ATM here in LOS that I take a shine to although it's usually the same two or three. All ATM fees are credited back to me at the end of the month. Indeed, any where I have traveled in this world the fees are credited back. The exchange rate itself is always correct as well but I don't even try to micro manage that. When I need funds I needs funds!

I think any American who does not use this or something very much like it has not done their homework.

[patongphil]

May be of interest if in Bangkok

http://www.superrich1965.com/

There is also a Superrich branch in Khon Kaen just down the road from Kalasin where his staying. Office is just about opposite the main Post Office.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

By the way, you are required by law to have your passport with you at all times! Did you know that?

.............

Tall Guy, I have three questions for you since you seem knowledgeable on this subject: (1) Do you have a Schwab account? (2) Have you ever done an over-the-counter VISA debit card cash advance? (3) Do you have a Thai driver's license?

Re the passport, your understanding is wrong. Thai Immigration has publicly stated here in statements on Thai Visa that it wants foreigners to have at least a COPY of their passport in their possession, and be able to produce the original document later if requested. Most expat residents here, I would say based on much discussion on this topic here in the forum, DON'T carry their original passport with them but rather keep it safely locked away at home.

Re counter withdrawals, you may have an accommodation with your local bank where they'll accept your Thai drivers license. But the standard identification required by banks when doing counter withdrawals, and most other banking business like opening accounts, changing accounts, etc, is your passport. But this being Thailand, where so many things are variable (just like counter withdrawals), some places may accept other.

As for your questions, yes, yes, and no.

I'd really suggest to you, just because you have an individual experience with something, doesn't necessarily make it the universal pattern that applies to everyone else everywhere here. Rather, paying attention to the broad trends that members here report in their banking experiences, and participating in the banking forums/topics here, are good ways to gauge what's going on out there beyond one's individual experience,

[BKKSnowBird]

+1 for Schwab. They have cut my debit card off a few times but a call to them quickly fixes it.

I opened a similar account with Fidelity as a back up. They also refund ATM fees but charge 1% exchange fee so will only use in an emergency. I keep that card seperate and can transfer money between the accounts.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I can't think of any reason to ever have to mail anything to Schwab. I never have. There is email, and if it is something requiring more security, they will ask you to fax it.

Re postal mail to Schwab, they for a very long time (years) had required account holders, when they wanted to link their Schwab CHECKING account to an external bank account, to MAIL IN the application form along with a paper, voided check or deposit slip for the account being linked to.

You couldn't do that online or over the phone for Schwab checking. (I'm not sure about fax or emailing scanned file attachments, but I don't think they accepted those.)

Fortunately, sometime recently, Schwab seems to have finally fixed that issue and now have an online linking process for linking external accounts to Schwab checking accounts. That's something their customers had been asking for for a long time, because somewhat inexplicably, there always had been an entirely online linking process for Schwab BROKERAGE accounts.

Good to see that Schwab finally got its act together on that issue.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I opened a similar account with Fidelity as a back up. They also refund ATM fees but charge 1% exchange fee so will only use in an emergency. I keep that card seperate and can transfer money between the accounts.

From what other Fidelity customers have reported here in the past, despite what Fidelity says on their website about charging the 1% fee...

Members here with Fidelity cards have posted that Fidelity does NOT charge the 1% FCF against ATM withdrawals, but DOES charge it against foreign point of sale purchases.

I can't vouch for that personally. It's easy enough to check, by just comparing the rate you get on a Thai bank ATM withdrawal with the official VISA network rate posted for that day at the following website.

If there's no fee, the rates should match exactly. On the VISA website, select card in U.S. $ and transaction in Thai baht. And 0% for bank fee.

http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp

[BKKSnowBird]

I opened a similar account with Fidelity as a back up. They also refund ATM fees but charge 1% exchange fee so will only use in an emergency. I keep that card seperate and can transfer money between the accounts.

From what other Fidelity customers have reported here in the past, despite what Fidelity says on their website about charging the 1% fee...

Members here with Fidelity cards have posted that Fidelity does NOT charge the 1% FCF against ATM withdrawals, but DOES charge it against foreign point of sale purchases.

I can't vouch for that personally. It's easy enough to check, by just comparing the rate you get on a Thai bank ATM withdrawal with the official VISA network rate posted for that day at the following website.

If there's no fee, the rates should match exactly. On the VISA website, select card in U.S. $ and transaction in Thai baht. And 0% for bank fee.

http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp

Thanks for that! Maybe I should take 10k out of both accounts one day from the same ATM and compare.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Give it a try...and please do post the results here re Fidelity...

It's always been a bit of an odd situation, with Fidelity's website clearly saying one thing, and members here with Fidelity cards reporting something different.

Based on multiple reports here from Fidelity card holders, I'm inclined to believe what they've been posting on the subject, despite what Fidelity's website says.