Asian nations must help save migrants at sea: US

[steven100]

Qoute :

Rice cakes cost 5 baht for 5 or 6 in a package. 5,000 baht could buy 5,000 rice cakes

5,000 rice cakes will last 45 minutes ... 2000 litres of water will last 24 hours.

Your intentions are good but I think this is a bigger catastrophe than you imagine.

This needs much more than a few rice cakes ... It needs UNHCR & HRW to act instead of just talking .. bla ..bla .. bla

The numbers are estimated to be around 8,000 and probably growing by the day so it needs to find a quick solution. I would be inclined to force both Malaysia and Indonesia to accept 50/50 and establish a refugee camp with tents, food, water & medical care.

Edited May 17, 2015 by steven100

[boomerangutang]

Qoute :

Rice cakes cost 5 baht for 5 or 6 in a package. 5,000 baht could buy 5,000 rice cakes

5,000 rice cakes will last 45 minutes ... 2000 litres of water will last 24 hours.

Your intentions are good but I think this is a bigger catastrophe than you imagine.

This needs much more than a few rice cakes ... It needs UNHCR & HRW to act instead of just talking .. bla ..bla .. bla

The numbers are estimated to be around 8,000 and probably growing by the day so it needs to find a quick solution. I would be inclined to force both Malaysia and Indonesia to accept 50/50 and establish a refugee camp with tents, food, water & medical care.

Of course more is needed. I was referring to the possibility of 1 private boat (there must be dozens, just at Phuket) taking the initiative. More boats = more aid. Also, am referring to trying to help people stay alive, hour by hour, day by day.

[steven100]

Qoute :

Rice cakes cost 5 baht for 5 or 6 in a package. 5,000 baht could buy 5,000 rice cakes

5,000 rice cakes will last 45 minutes ... 2000 litres of water will last 24 hours.

Your intentions are good but I think this is a bigger catastrophe than you imagine.

This needs much more than a few rice cakes ... It needs UNHCR & HRW to act instead of just talking .. bla ..bla .. bla

The numbers are estimated to be around 8,000 and probably growing by the day so it needs to find a quick solution. I would be inclined to force both Malaysia and Indonesia to accept 50/50 and establish a refugee camp with tents, food, water & medical care.

Of course more is needed. I was referring to the possibility of 1 private boat (there must be dozens, just at Phuket) taking the initiative. More boats = more aid. Also, am referring to trying to help people stay alive, hour by hour, day by day.

Give the UNHCR a call .... i'm sure they must have a few boats sitting idle somewhere.

[chuckd]

Qoute :

Rice cakes cost 5 baht for 5 or 6 in a package. 5,000 baht could buy 5,000 rice cakes

5,000 rice cakes will last 45 minutes ... 2000 litres of water will last 24 hours.

Your intentions are good but I think this is a bigger catastrophe than you imagine.

This needs much more than a few rice cakes ... It needs UNHCR & HRW to act instead of just talking .. bla ..bla .. bla

The numbers are estimated to be around 8,000 and probably growing by the day so it needs to find a quick solution. I would be inclined to force both Malaysia and Indonesia to accept 50/50 and establish a refugee camp with tents, food, water & medical care.

Of course more is needed. I was referring to the possibility of 1 private boat (there must be dozens, just at Phuket) taking the initiative. More boats = more aid. Also, am referring to trying to help people stay alive, hour by hour, day by day.

Just a quick question but, exactly what do you think would happen if some of those needy refugees decided they needed your nice, new shiny boat instead of the one they were trapped on?

I hope you can swim.

[harryfrompattaya]

Southeast Asian countries have enough to do to support themselves and their own people , without having to take in Thousands , uneducated , illiterate , unskilled people , of a strict muslim sect , that will never integrate and will be dependent on the state for support .

The UN and Human Rights officials should send ships to rescue these people and repatriate them to Mayanmar .

Huge waves of illegal migrants invading other countries has got to be stopped . Decent people in civilized countries will not tollerate their countries being swamped by unwanted humanity , that will not integrate , that will try to impose their primitive customs and sharia law .

People are dying, women, children they need help. Not talk and inaction!

So, start an NGO to support them. I'm sure you and your friends have enough money to rescue lots of them, or do you expect OTHER people to do the rescuing?

I as a Black man says America has no money for these boat people

Any money spent should spent on Africans leaving Africa and going to Europe England and of cause USA

Edited May 17, 2015 by harryfrompattaya

[boomerangutang]

If it were a crisis up here in Chiang Rai, near where I reside, I'd consider providing banana bread. A vendor here sells 'em for Bt.5 each (4" x 3" x 2"). Also: fresh bananas, dried bananas, and fried bananas would be ok. For 30 baht, I can get a load of fried bananas enough to fill 10 small people for half a day. Bananas are more nutritious than rice.

[JockPieandBeans]

So, start an NGO to support them. I'm sure you and your friends have enough money to rescue lots of them, or do you expect OTHER people to do the rescuing?

I as a Black man says America has no money for these boat people

Any money spent should spent on Africans leaving Africa and going to Europe England and of cause USA

Although going off topic. It is consistent with migrants at sea.

It looks likely that England and other Countries of Europe are going to be spending money ensuring that the flood of Migrants from Africa, heading for Europe are swiftly interdicted and returned to Africa.

Royal Marines are being dispatched to stop flood of refugees from Libya into Europe

The move, which would see the UK spearhead a multinational operation off the coast of North Africa, comes amid claims that Islamic State fanatics are using the refugee crisis to smuggle fighters into Britain and Europe.

The UK’s leading role in the blockade was described as the “quid pro quo” for David Cameron’s insistence that Britain would not accept migrants fleeing Libya for Europe.

http://report24.co.uk/article/189631/exclusive-uk-troops-to-smash-migrants-trade-navy-to-stop-flood-of-refugees-from-libya

[boomerangutang]

Qoute :

Rice cakes cost 5 baht for 5 or 6 in a package. 5,000 baht could buy 5,000 rice cakes

5,000 rice cakes will last 45 minutes ... 2000 litres of water will last 24 hours.

Your intentions are good but I think this is a bigger catastrophe than you imagine.

This needs much more than a few rice cakes ... It needs UNHCR & HRW to act instead of just talking .. bla ..bla .. bla

The numbers are estimated to be around 8,000 and probably growing by the day so it needs to find a quick solution. I would be inclined to force both Malaysia and Indonesia to accept 50/50 and establish a refugee camp with tents, food, water & medical care.

Of course more is needed. I was referring to the possibility of 1 private boat (there must be dozens, just at Phuket) taking the initiative. More boats = more aid. Also, am referring to trying to help people stay alive, hour by hour, day by day.

Just a quick question but, exactly what do you think would happen if some of those needy refugees decided they needed your nice, new shiny boat instead of the one they were trapped on?

I hope you can swim.

Yes, there are all sorts of contingencies. It could happen that all the boat people rush to one side, and the boat capsizes. It could happen where they commandeer the rich man's boat and force it to tow the tug full of people. That's what life's about for some us: taking chances - particularly if it can possible do some good. The easiest course of action is to sit at a comfy air-conditioned home and comment from afar. (p.s. I don't have air-con).

I once was driving on a hilly road in California, in the driest part of the year. I saw a small brush fire several meters from the road, down a steep ravine. I stopped the truck, grabbed a shovel, and charged down the hill and put the fire out, despite tall weeds, and prickly branches/bushes. No one saw me. I could have taken the safe establishment route, and driven to town (2 miles away) and called authorities (mobile phones were 20 yrs in the future). Instead I got a bit burned and scratched and sweaty by taking the initiative. Note: It's not uncommon for fires in that region to burn hundreds of acres and dozens of expensive houses.

[manarak]

Those who think that towing the boats back to where they came from is an option might want to think again. If you want a major incident that is one way to do it. You are talking about the military of one country entering the waters of another country with boat loads of people. The people may or may not come from that country.

Let's just imagine what would happen if Australia, for example towed a few boat loads of people back to Iran and tried to put them off on the beach and then sink the boat.

How many western countries would tolerate another countries military entering their waters? I think not many, especially if they were doing something questionable.

Scott, not tow the boats back, just provide food, water, fuel & medicine and tow them back in the direction of Myanmar, say to the international water border line, then they can return under their own engine power as they have sufficient supplies to reach Myanmar.

555

you mean they got enough supplies to make the same way back to Thailand/Indonesia/Malaysia again?

Tow them back to the international border and give them enough fuel to make land.

what we might consider enough supplies for a day, they might consider enough for a week!

[manarak]

I clicked through on the first Wiki reference to birth rates it linked to The Arakan Project; may have missed it, but doesn't talk to high birth rates, but does talk about very high mortality rates for young children and the State dictate of no more than two children per family.

http://www.oxfordburmaalliance.org/uploads/9/1/8/4/9184764/arakan_project_report_2012.pdf

From my original link...

Rakhine State — home to roughly 800,000 Rohingya Muslims, according to the United Nations — has one of Myanmar’s lowest population growth rates.

My thoughts developed further about birth rates and what I said earlier about withholding information.

I was unable to find any direct serious source of figures for Rohingya birth rates - of course, the publications are all supporting Rohingya rights and don't want to publish any uncomfortable data.

The Arakan Project however, couldn't help but publish some figures in the chapter on education, and the figures are shocking.

http://www.oxfordburmaalliance.org/uploads/9/1/8/4/9184764/arakan_project_report_2012.pdf

On page 11, the report say that the figure of 124.600 children represent 36% of children of school age in northern Rakhine state in the year 2005, i.e. aged between 5 and 17 years...

what can we infer ?

=> there were approx. 360.000 children aged between 5 and 17 in northern Rakhine in the year 2005

I have problems to find sources to relate this figure to any population figures for northern Rakhine, but it still seems to me as there is a lot of children there.

So... if Rohingya explosive demographics are just a myths, why isn't the myth debunked?

The data about schooling certainly suggests there is no myth.

Other reports estimate the overall Muslim population in Myanmar has not significantly increased. e.g. A report that extracts population numbers from prior Burmese census claims:

“This also shows up in the national Muslim population share which was no higher in 1983 than in 1953 – more recent and reliable data are not available.

http://www.networkmyanmar.org/images/stories/PDF16/Ash-Center-Appendix.pdf

The bottom line so far as I’m concerned is the claims of very high birth rates are being used as one of the basis for aggressive disenfranchisement of the Muslim population.

As of now we will not know the true numbers as Rohingya are no longer an ethnicity captured in the census; yet another nail in the coffin for Rohingya human rights.

The numbers in that report are based on unprecise statistics and extrapolations and they don't take into account all the people who were born there and left. I read another document that claims that Rohingya population in Rakhine is composed of 75% of women and children because the men leave.

Also, how would the statistics look if they took into account the estimated 1 million Rohingya living abroad?

I think the school statistics are more representative of Rohingya birth rates than extrapolated census estimates.

I guess you are right about us never knowing for sure, yet where do the 1 million Rohingya living abroad come from?

But in the big picture, the birth rate is secondary. What would anyone suggest as a solution to the problem?

I guess I would offer to spare a territory, such as for example northern Rakhine, and offer to establish a very autonomous territory there, offering a land and real estate exchange deal to any citizens who don't want to stay there.

[simple1]

<ship>

But in the big picture, the birth rate is secondary. What would anyone suggest as a solution to the problem?

I guess I would offer to spare a territory, such as for example northern Rakhine, and offer to establish a very autonomous territory there, offering a land and real estate exchange deal to any citizens who don't want to stay there.

In concept sounds fair enough, but I guess we both know that isn't going to happen in our lifetimes.

[harryfrompattaya]

I clicked through on the first Wiki reference to birth rates it linked to The Arakan Project; may have missed it, but doesn't talk to high birth rates, but does talk about very high mortality rates for young children and the State dictate of no more than two children per family.

http://www.oxfordburmaalliance.org/uploads/9/1/8/4/9184764/arakan_project_report_2012.pdf

From my original link...

Rakhine State — home to roughly 800,000 Rohingya Muslims, according to the United Nations — has one of Myanmar’s lowest population growth rates.

My thoughts developed further about birth rates and what I said earlier about withholding information.

I was unable to find any direct serious source of figures for Rohingya birth rates - of course, the publications are all supporting Rohingya rights and don't want to publish any uncomfortable data.

The Arakan Project however, couldn't help but publish some figures in the chapter on education, and the figures are shocking.

http://www.oxfordburmaalliance.org/uploads/9/1/8/4/9184764/arakan_project_report_2012.pdf

On page 11, the report say that the figure of 124.600 children represent 36% of children of school age in northern Rakhine state in the year 2005, i.e. aged between 5 and 17 years...

what can we infer ?

=> there were approx. 360.000 children aged between 5 and 17 in northern Rakhine in the year 2005

I have problems to find sources to relate this figure to any population figures for northern Rakhine, but it still seems to me as there is a lot of children there.

So... if Rohingya explosive demographics are just a myths, why isn't the myth debunked?

The data about schooling certainly suggests there is no myth.

Other reports estimate the overall Muslim population in Myanmar has not significantly increased. e.g. A report that extracts population numbers from prior Burmese census claims:

“This also shows up in the national Muslim population share which was no higher in 1983 than in 1953 – more recent and reliable data are not available.

http://www.networkmyanmar.org/images/stories/PDF16/Ash-Center-Appendix.pdf

The bottom line so far as I’m concerned is the claims of very high birth rates are being used as one of the basis for aggressive disenfranchisement of the Muslim population.

As of now we will not know the true numbers as Rohingya are no longer an ethnicity captured in the census; yet another nail in the coffin for Rohingya human rights.

The numbers in that report are based on unprecise statistics and extrapolations and they don't take into account all the people who were born there and left. I read another document that claims that Rohingya population in Rakhine is composed of 75% of women and children because the men leave.

Also, how would the statistics look if they took into account the estimated 1 million Rohingya living abroad?

I think the school statistics are more representative of Rohingya birth rates than extrapolated census estimates.

I guess you are right about us never knowing for sure, yet where do the 1 million Rohingya living abroad come from?

But in the big picture, the birth rate is secondary. What would anyone suggest as a solution to the problem?

I guess I would offer to spare a territory, such as for example northern Rakhine, and offer to establish a very autonomous territory there, offering a land and real estate exchange deal to any citizens who don't want to stay there.

Let North Korea take them they deserve each other

Please let England EU and America alone about this

[thaibeachlovers]

Southeast Asian countries have enough to do to support themselves and their own people , without having to take in Thousands , uneducated , illiterate , unskilled people , of a strict muslim sect , that will never integrate and will be dependent on the state for support .

The UN and Human Rights officials should send ships to rescue these people and repatriate them to Mayanmar .

Huge waves of illegal migrants invading other countries has got to be stopped . Decent people in civilized countries will not tollerate their countries being swamped by unwanted humanity , that will not integrate , that will try to impose their primitive customs and sharia law .

People are dying, women, children they need help. Not talk and inaction!

So, start an NGO to support them. I'm sure you and your friends have enough money to rescue lots of them, or do you expect OTHER people to do the rescuing?

That's a flippant response. It's like saying, if a crowd sees someone drowning nearby; 'start a swimming class, so graduates will be able to save people, next time they see someone drowning.'

There are already humanitarian groups extant. Each hour / each day we discuss the issue, more people are dying. Private boat owners could stock up on water bottles and motor out there. Of course there are other essentials needed, such as food and petrol (assuming the boats return to where they came from), but water is probably #1, if facing death.

I'm in northernmost Thailand, am low income, and have no boat. However, I would seriously consider doing what I outlined if logistics were feasible. Water wouldn't even have to be purchased. Barring a commercial water supplier donating 2,000 liter bottles of water (not likely), someone with a clean well could supply it for free, and there are thousands of empty liter bottles at re-cycle places. The bottles don't even need to be properly cleaned. If you're facing death from dehydration, are you going to worry if unknown lips had touched a bottle?

Rice cakes cost 5 baht for 5 or 6 in a package. 5,000 baht could buy 5,000 rice cakes - enough to enable a few hundred people on the edge - to limp through another day or two.

Send me a message if you can do something like that. I'll donate a modest amount.

Hmmmmm. My post was because I get PO with people ( not just on TV ) saying that the "refugees" must be saved when it is probable that they expect the already overburdened taxpayers to foot the bill, and would never lift a finger themselves to do anything.

Make no mistake, only governments can do anything about this situation. A few individuals can do nothing faced with MILLIONS of "refugees" that is significant. However, I hope that all the people saying something must be done are giving a lot of money to some of the humanitarian groups you mention.

BTW it seems to me that this is just the latest fashionable fad for some to get obsessed about. If one really wants to help people in trouble there are many many such in Thailand, from beggars to trafficked people. No need to obsess about people from another country.

[thaibeachlovers]

I clicked through on the first Wiki reference to birth rates it linked to The Arakan Project; may have missed it, but doesn't talk to high birth rates, but does talk about very high mortality rates for young children and the State dictate of no more than two children per family.

http://www.oxfordburmaalliance.org/uploads/9/1/8/4/9184764/arakan_project_report_2012.pdf

From my original link...

Rakhine State — home to roughly 800,000 Rohingya Muslims, according to the United Nations — has one of Myanmar’s lowest population growth rates.

My thoughts developed further about birth rates and what I said earlier about withholding information.

I was unable to find any direct serious source of figures for Rohingya birth rates - of course, the publications are all supporting Rohingya rights and don't want to publish any uncomfortable data.

The Arakan Project however, couldn't help but publish some figures in the chapter on education, and the figures are shocking.

http://www.oxfordburmaalliance.org/uploads/9/1/8/4/9184764/arakan_project_report_2012.pdf

On page 11, the report say that the figure of 124.600 children represent 36% of children of school age in northern Rakhine state in the year 2005, i.e. aged between 5 and 17 years...

what can we infer ?

=> there were approx. 360.000 children aged between 5 and 17 in northern Rakhine in the year 2005

I have problems to find sources to relate this figure to any population figures for northern Rakhine, but it still seems to me as there is a lot of children there.

So... if Rohingya explosive demographics are just a myths, why isn't the myth debunked?

The data about schooling certainly suggests there is no myth.

Other reports estimate the overall Muslim population in Myanmar has not significantly increased. e.g. A report that extracts population numbers from prior Burmese census claims:

“This also shows up in the national Muslim population share which was no higher in 1983 than in 1953 – more recent and reliable data are not available.

http://www.networkmyanmar.org/images/stories/PDF16/Ash-Center-Appendix.pdf

The bottom line so far as I’m concerned is the claims of very high birth rates are being used as one of the basis for aggressive disenfranchisement of the Muslim population.

As of now we will not know the true numbers as Rohingya are no longer an ethnicity captured in the census; yet another nail in the coffin for Rohingya human rights.

The numbers in that report are based on unprecise statistics and extrapolations and they don't take into account all the people who were born there and left. I read another document that claims that Rohingya population in Rakhine is composed of 75% of women and children because the men leave.

Also, how would the statistics look if they took into account the estimated 1 million Rohingya living abroad?

I think the school statistics are more representative of Rohingya birth rates than extrapolated census estimates.

I guess you are right about us never knowing for sure, yet where do the 1 million Rohingya living abroad come from?

But in the big picture, the birth rate is secondary. What would anyone suggest as a solution to the problem?

I guess I would offer to spare a territory, such as for example northern Rakhine, and offer to establish a very autonomous territory there, offering a land and real estate exchange deal to any citizens who don't want to stay there.

In the big picture the birth rate is EVERYTHING. All this is caused by the birth rate exceeding the ability of their own country to provide employment, so they move along looking for work elsewhere, thus causing problems elsewhere.

What would anyone suggest as a solution to the problem?

Sterilisation of all people that have had one child. I know that is unnaceptable to most, as they consider it their right to breed excessively, and it would never be brought in. However, make no mistake, Gaia will reduce the population anyway, and people will like that even less.