Consumer protection ?

[recom273]

I could post this to 'ask the lawyer' but I'm after other members past expericence.

I have purchased something that is a part of a system, a well known, reputable European brand, made in Europe. I paid for the system upfront ( around 60 - 70,000B ) as was requested by the supplier.

I then found out after payment, a certain part of the system, was currently not in stock but would be here in mid-May, thats a little disappointing, but it doesnt stop me from using part of the system.

I then use the purchase and I find them to be 'unfit for the purpose they were intended for', the supplier asks I return them ( at my own cost 700B ) to the Thai distributor of this well known worldwide product.

I made a video of these products 'not doing their job' and passed it on to the supplier.

I have been told to wait, and hopefully this week I will receive an answer.

The only answer I would be willing to accept would be a replacement, as in my opinion, a repair would not be inline with the condition of the original product purchase, I did nothing to damage this product - i just used it for the purpose intended.

I'm a patient guy, but in the event of maybe a combination of a further delay on the missing part and being messed around regarding the faulty parts, do I have any consumer protection here in Thailand ?

In other words, is there a point where I can say, "thats enough, I'm sending you the parts I have here ( which are of no use at all ) and I demand a refund"

I can actually purchase an similar system ( but in my opinion not so good ) for the same price, I can purchase a locally made system ( with possibly the same faults ) at a considerably lower price, but I bought, what I would consider to be the best - and it wasn't.

When I noticed the problem, I contacted the head office, in Italy, and the Asian distributor in Malaysia - but with no reply.

Any helpful opinions gratefully received.

Edited May 17, 2015 by recom273

[Ghostnigel]

Best for the real lawyers to answer that one, here you will just get contradicting answers from the barstool lawyers that will only confuse you even more....i hope you are successful.

[AlexRRR]

No reply from distributor or from head office gives you a very real indication of the the job in front of you, happened to me once at least the Thai arm of the international company were helpful not so much the store i purchased it from, i got a my replacement but not with out some grand standing and perseverance.

There was a post in here only about 3 weeks back one of the posters gave a list of sites and Thai government agency's handling all sorts of issue do a search in here in TV im pretty sure it will help you.

[NeverSure]

I hope you are successful too. Remember, in the US they would have the right to fix it. They might decide to replace it but they don't have to. You could probably get a refund instead.

I have no idea about Thai law.

PS Your legal term "not fit for the purpose intended" is a US legal term and who knows if it means anything to Thailand.

Edited May 17, 2015 by NeverSure

[steven100]

do I have any consumer protection here in Thailand ?

In a short answer ... no or limited.

[CharlieH]

In the "pinned topic" at the top of this forum:

Consumer Protection Board. http://www.ocpb.go.t...?filename=index

This agency deals with all retails, real estate and alike problems, including faulty products, incomplete jobs, warranty's etc.

It also deals with unlicensed restaurants of food sellers.

[recom273]

I hope you are successful too. Remember, in the US they would have the right to fix it. They might decide to replace it but they don't have to. You could probably get a refund instead.

I have no idea about Thai law.

PS Your legal term "not fit for the purpose intended" is a US legal term and who knows if it means anything to Thailand.

Thanks to all

Yeah, I use legal terms because this is not a cheap Thai product - it's an imported brand famous for its reliability.

I understand about the repair, but it's a water leak, the product has 4 points of possible weakness, 2 are fine on one item, 3 are fine on the other item.

The product has a 24 month guarantee, but I didn't want a local interpreting it as he could just wipe some silicone on a leak and expect that to be an acceptable repair, factory repairs would be cool, but that's a trip back to Italy - let's say 7 weeks already and another month + for repairs - I find that unacceptable.

Anyway, fingers x this is all unnecessary worry.

[Beetlejuice]

I hope you are successful too. Remember, in the US they would have the right to fix it. They might decide to replace it but they don't have to. You could probably get a refund instead.

I have no idea about Thai law.

PS Your legal term "not fit for the purpose intended" is a US legal term and who knows if it means anything to Thailand.

Thanks to all

Yeah, I use legal terms because this is not a cheap Thai product - it's an imported brand famous for its reliability.

I understand about the repair, but it's a water leak, the product has 4 points of possible weakness, 2 are fine on one item, 3 are fine on the other item.

The product has a 24 month guarantee, but I didn't want a local interpreting it as he could just wipe some silicone on a leak and expect that to be an acceptable repair, factory repairs would be cool, but that's a trip back to Italy - let's say 7 weeks already and another month + for repairs - I find that unacceptable.

Anyway, fingers x this is all unnecessary worry.

This is diificult to answer unless we know the terms and conditions of the guarantee.

If you are demanding that the companies involved accommodate you over and above what is in the terms of the guarantee, than your only option is to hire the services of a reputable lawyer and take your grievances to the civil court.

[questionsreplies]

If you want a reply make some noise:

Facebook

Youtube

Twitter

And many others will help you and brands manager wikk shiiit in their pants !

[willyumiii]

Why be secretive about what it is and what it is to be used for???

[tolsti]

The Thai Consumer Complaints Bureau will act and the company concerned will receive very official paperwork. If the company makes a counter argument then you will be invited to arbitration. I have seen this on several occasions..... But just as you can't win the lottery without a ticket, you can't expect a response until you log the complaint.

[mogandave]

As others have indicated, in the US it is generally repair or replace.

Any authorized repair center (likely the Thai dealer would do the repair.

If you bought a new washing machine and it started leaking, they would not send it back to the factory.

[recom273]

Why be secretive about what it is and what it is to be used for???

Because the owner of the company is a westerner, who reads this forum and I didn't wish to name and shame which would end up loosing his help / trust / friendship.

Things are looking good and I hope to praise all involved praise in a later post.

[Ghostnigel]

Why be secretive about what it is and what it is to be used for???

Because the owner of the company is a westerner, who reads this forum and I didn't wish to name and shame which would end up loosing his help / trust / friendship.

Things are looking good and I hope to praise all involved praise in a later post.

Recon, I would suggest you find better friends, your 'friend' is the boss of the company, but he is not interested to help you? Unless i read it wrong, you have already lost his trust!

[recom273]

Why be secretive about what it is and what it is to be used for???

Because the owner of the company is a westerner, who reads this forum and I didn't wish to name and shame which would end up loosing his help / trust / friendship.

Things are looking good and I hope to praise all involved praise in a later post.

Recon, I would suggest you find better friends, your 'friend' is the boss of the company, but he is not interested to help you? Unless i read it wrong, you have already lost his trust!

So you didnt read the second sentence - 'Things are looking good and I hope to praise all ..' - Lost his trust, no I don't think so.

So far the guy hasnt let me down so far. I don't look at life in the short run - I like to look at the bigger picture.

[sdanielmcev]

Without knowing what product you are talking about, you seem rather vague, it is difficult to give any kind of answer. Seems kind of dodgy. Of course installation procedures could come into play. Was the installer competent?

[meltingpot2015]

Lodged a complaint with the OCPB three weeks ago about a faulty mobile purchased from an MBK centre shop. Followed it up with a call to confirm that they have received all the documents.

Slight hick-up with recieving copy of passport. Heard nothing whether it was received or not, so e-mailed them to confirm and to ask time-scales about when the complaint will be resolved.

Didn't hear anything immediately, so followed-up with a call. They said copy of passport was received OK. E-mailed again to ask for timescales.

They sent me reference number for case. Also, timescales:

1) Warning letter sent to entrepreneur around 7 days after receiving complaint.

2) Entrepreneur required to submit clarifications within 15 days of receiving the letter.

They said once the entrepreneur responds to the letter I will be sent (a copy of?) this response.

I see three issues here. In (1) what is "around" 7 days?. In (2) within 15 days of receiving the letter. Are letters sent via recorded delivery?

Who is the letter sent to?. (Entrepenuer?..has to be, because they said so)

contacted the OCPB by e-mail today asking when the warning letter was sent out exactly, also if OCPB has received a response.

OCPB is now saying they normally send out the warning letter "around 15 days after receiving the complaint". (notice this is different to what was said before, it was 7 days).

OCPB is saying for "my case" they contacted the shop but the "staff did not cooperate", so now they have to contact MBK and ask for the shop owner's name "before proceeding further".

But, surely in the first e-mail they said they contact the entrepreneur (a person). In the second e-mail they are saying they contacted the shop and the shop staff did not co-operate. You would think that they would have worked out the shop owner by contacting MBK to begin with, after all they did say the letter was sent to the Entrepreneur (a person).

Although, it seemed there was a clear procedure to begin with, now it has become apparent that there simply isn't.

If you do lodge a complaint with them prepare for the same and plenty of moving goal-posts.

[Anthony5]

do I have any consumer protection here in Thailand ?

In a short answer ... no or limited.

Long answer, you have the Office of the Consumer Protection Board Thailand ( OCPB ) and they do a tremendous job.

[meltingpot2015]

experience (used to) speak volumes on this forum.

[AlexRRR]

Lodged a complaint with the OCPB three weeks ago about a faulty mobile purchased from an MBK centre shop. Followed it up with a call to confirm that they have received all the documents.

Slight hick-up with recieving copy of passport. Heard nothing whether it was received or not, so e-mailed them to confirm and to ask time-scales about when the complaint will be resolved.

Didn't hear anything immediately, so followed-up with a call. They said copy of passport was received OK. E-mailed again to ask for timescales.

They sent me reference number for case. Also, timescales:

1) Warning letter sent to entrepreneur around 7 days after receiving complaint.

2) Entrepreneur required to submit clarifications within 15 days of receiving the letter.

They said once the entrepreneur responds to the letter I will be sent (a copy of?) this response.

I see three issues here. In (1) what is "around" 7 days?. In (2) within 15 days of receiving the letter. Are letters sent via recorded delivery?

Who is the letter sent to?. (Entrepenuer?..has to be, because they said so)

contacted the OCPB by e-mail today asking when the warning letter was sent out exactly, also if OCPB has received a response.

OCPB is now saying they normally send out the warning letter "around 15 days after receiving the complaint". (notice this is different to what was said before, it was 7 days).

OCPB is saying for "my case" they contacted the shop but the "staff did not cooperate", so now they have to contact MBK and ask for the shop owner's name "before proceeding further".

But, surely in the first e-mail they said they contact the entrepreneur (a person). In the second e-mail they are saying they contacted the shop and the shop staff did not co-operate. You would think that they would have worked out the shop owner by contacting MBK to begin with, after all they did say the letter was sent to the Entrepreneur (a person).

Although, it seemed there was a clear procedure to begin with, now it has become apparent that there simply isn't.

If you do lodge a complaint with them prepare for the same and plenty of moving goal-posts.

Your not living in the west anymore, and Thai customer service is designed to frustrate even if it's not intentional, when I had an issue with a major department store over a world brand item I did a bit of grandstanding, when that didn't work asked for them to get the international brand BKK office on the phone, of course this didn't work either I found out on return one month later, another call to same international co from the department store and put through to top man my issue was resolved a week later.

MBK is a haven of fakes and second hand phones, I think you made the mistake buying there having said that if you can't get them to replace it try by all means but you might start to think it's time to kiss your money goodbye....

If I want a phone I would buy direct from the company that makes them, Apple, Samsung or pop into an AIS or Dtac store there has got to be better back up service than some shittie little stall in MBK or some shopping centre kios.

Edited August 8, 2015 by AlexRRR

[meltingpot2015]

Your not living in the west anymore, and Thai customer service is designed to frustrate even if it's not intentional, when I had an issue with a major department store over a world brand item I did a bit of grandstanding, when that didn't work asked for them to get the international brand BKK office on the phone, of course this didn't work either I found out on return one month later, another call to same international co from the department store and put through to top man my issue was resolved a week later.

MBK is a haven of fakes and second hand phones, I think you made the mistake buying there having said that if you can't get them to replace it try by all means but you might start to think it's time to kiss your money goodbye....

If I want a phone I would buy direct from the company that makes them, Apple, Samsung or pop into an AIS or Dtac store there has got to be better back up service than some shittie little stall in MBK or some shopping centre kios.

First of all I didnt buy from a stall at MBK, it was a proper shop. Have seen the same shop on repeated visits. So, don't know where you get the idea it was a stall.

if you can't get them to replace it try by all means

Try what by all means?...the phone they sold have mismatching serial numbers. (Dodgy History) The Samsung service centre told me this when I took it for a software upgrade.

The Office of Consumer Protection Board (OCPB) knows this, because I mentioned it on the complaint. Yet, they are dragging their feet, resolving this.

Thai customer service is designed to frustrate even if it's not intentional

This is not customer service. This is a government agency we are talking about.

I bought the phone when I had just arrived in Thailand, so had no idea that MBK shops sell phones with a dodgy history. Do you think many people that do buy phones from there are aware of this?

If an entrepreneur sets up a shop or stall in a shopping centre (like MBK) they would have had to register with MBK. No one can simply walk in from the street and setup a shop/stall there. One of the roles of this government agency (OCPB) is to resolve consumer disputes like this.

I expect very little "customer service" from a shop that has sold me a phone with a dubious history. This is where the OCPB comes in to the picture.

They cannot allow this practices to continue.

At least put signs in the MBK centre to warn customers that phones may have dubious history or close those shops/stalls down.

[mogandave]

If it seems too good to be true...

[AlexRRR]

Government agency's have customer service as well, might be called something else but it's the same thing.

And your wrong, the management of MBK don't give a rats ass what gets sold there only interested in the rent money.

Mate just a short walk around the centre gives a dam good idea what gets sold there, starting on the ground floor with fake polo t shirts etc, even a Starbucks ripe off several shops down, you think Starbucks could get something done about that?

Once walking around in there some dude offered me an iPhone copy for 3000, I pulled out mine to show him I didn't need one.

I would have gone back to where I bought it from and just been disruptive to new customers until they settled with me, that's about the only way your going to get this resolved.

Edited August 8, 2015 by AlexRRR

[meltingpot2015]

If it seems too good to be true...

It didn't. Not the price I paid.

[meltingpot2015]

Government agency's have customer service as well, might be called something else but it's the same thing.

And your wrong, the management of MBK don't give a rats ass what gets sold there only interested in the rent money.

Mate just a short walk around the centre gives a dam good idea what gets sold there, starting on the ground floor with fake polo t shirts etc, even a Starbucks ripe off several shops down, you think Starbucks could get something done about that?

Once walking around in there some dude offered me an iPhone copy for 3000, I pulled out mine to show him I didn't need one.

I would have gone back to where I bought it from and just been disruptive to new customers until they settled with me, that's about the only way your going to get this resolved.

the management of MBK don't give a rats ass what gets sold there

I haven't asked MBK Management to give a rates ass (typo, that should be rats ass). I am asking the Office of Consumer Protection Board to give one. Also, they (MBK) have signs with a hotline number to call if you see "suspicious activity", are you saying they will do nothing if we call that number?

Wasn't sold a fake Samsung, it was one of dubious history. It's original.

I have the good sense to walk past all the fake merchandise shops.

There's definitely a Starbucks Coffee (original), then there's a starbuck cafe right next to it. Is that what you mean?. Are you telling us they are both fake?

I would have gone back to where I bought it from and just been disruptive to new customers until they settled with me, that's about the only way your going to get this resolved.

Probably a good idea, but how do I ensure its not gonna be a phone with dubious history again.

Edited August 8, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[meltingpot2015]

Government agency's have customer service as well, might be called something else but it's the same thing.

And your wrong, the management of MBK don't give a rats ass what gets sold there only interested in the rent money.

Mate just a short walk around the centre gives a dam good idea what gets sold there, starting on the ground floor with fake polo t shirts etc, even a Starbucks ripe off several shops down, you think Starbucks could get something done about that?

Once walking around in there some dude offered me an iPhone copy for 3000, I pulled out mine to show him I didn't need one.

I would have gone back to where I bought it from and just been disruptive to new customers until they settled with me, that's about the only way your going to get this resolved.

even a Starbucks ripe off several shops down, you think Starbucks could get something done about that?

Are you seriously suggesting that there are customers going to have coffee at the Starbuck cafe assuming its starbucks coffee?.

Apart from the subtle major difference in the name, the cafe looks nothing like a starbucks.

Edited August 8, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[AlexRRR]

Government agency's have customer service as well, might be called something else but it's the same thing.

And your wrong, the management of MBK don't give a rats ass what gets sold there only interested in the rent money.

Mate just a short walk around the centre gives a dam good idea what gets sold there, starting on the ground floor with fake polo t shirts etc, even a Starbucks ripe off several shops down, you think Starbucks could get something done about that?

Once walking around in there some dude offered me an iPhone copy for 3000, I pulled out mine to show him I didn't need one.

I would have gone back to where I bought it from and just been disruptive to new customers until they settled with me, that's about the only way your going to get this resolved.

even a Starbucks ripe off several shops down, you think Starbucks could get something done about that?

Are you seriously suggesting that there are customers going to have coffee at the Starbuck cafe assuming its starbucks coffee?.

Apart from the subtle major difference in the name, the cafe looks nothing like a starbucks.

Where did i say that?

If the cafe looks nothing like a Starbucks how come you know which one I'm talking about?

How much did you pay for this Samsung phone? What model? New or used? And why didn't you go to a Samsung store to purchase it? You only had to walk over to Paragon, most of the Central's would have legit resellers, shopping for a bargain?

[meltingpot2015]

If the cafe looks nothing like a Starbucks how come you know which one I'm talking about?

Process of elimination.

Definition by McMillan Dictionary: a way of finding an answer or solution by first deciding which answers or solutions are not possible.

You said

even a Starbucks ripe off several shops down

Remember?. So, engage brain. Work out that there is a rip-off one. I have walked past Starbucks Coffee (Original -- so not that one), next to it there is a cafe (which looks nothing like the Starbucks). Look at MBK shopping centre Map. Bingo!. Next to Starbucks Coffee is a cafe called Starbuck cafe. Easy!.

Bought the phone new.

And why didn't you go to a Samsung store to purchase it?

I said the reason, in another post. I had just arrived in Thailand. As far as I am aware, Samsung stores only sell phones on contract, I am a tourist, so may not be eligible. Even if I am, it comes tied to that phone network, so how do I use it with my Australian SIM Card?.

Edited August 9, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[meltingpot2015]

What would be funny is. If someone had taken your unsuspecting friend or colleague to starbuck cafe. They take pictures while in the cafe. Maybe one picture outside near the sign "starbuck cafe" with everyone giving a . Your friend then come back to their home country and show photos to friends and family and tell them how they went to Starbucks in Bangkok had coffee and a wonderful time at the cafe.

If you were one of the friends they were showing the pictures to, would you know whether to laugh or cry.

Edited August 9, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[mmh8]

it seems soemitmes that Thailand is an exception to thiese things. I remain unable to speak to microsoft here to get a refund or change on a product, purchased within central. apparantly they do things differently here, and after being passed around in a circle a few times it seems microsoft will not do anything with this equipment.

take cars, every car has the advised tire pressure on inside of door jamb on drivers side. this is accepted internaitonally, just like the little symbol on the fuel gauge indicates on which side of the car the fuel hatch sits. but in Thailand, apparantly the tire pressure advise used internaitonlly does not apply. that is even though these recommendations are the same irrespective of external temperature etc, but only depend on load of vehcile, so here people will phone up the car company garage and ask what pressure which is a good 30 psi lower than that advised, rather than the internationally excepted advice on the car. go figure, this confuses me, to hell

on the car thing it leads to similar circular conversation, where ok so in all other countries, take korea for example and france, and the us, the advice is applied. but in thailand it does not because........

you can add your own reason for the ....... becasue I've never got that answer,

it may be face saving who knows