Texas shootout among rival biker gangs leaves 9 dead

[sirineou]

...and yet the countries holding the 1st and 2nd position have nearly 3-4x population of US but the fraction of gun fatalities and homicides. Why is that?

Do you want to live in China or India where people are lacking in freedoms and are dirt poor? You don't understand how the freedoms and personal initiatives in the US have made the country different. You don't understand self reliance and independent thinking.

I believe that if you were given the choice to be born in India or the US you'd choose the US. I know you would if you had actually tried both alternatives.

When you understand why and how the US kicked out the King of England and his occupying, colonizing redcoat army and built a country based on individual power and initiative you'll start to get it. In the meantime if you happen to be from the UK your government over which you have no power has sold the store in so many ways while you weren't paying attention.

That won't happen in the US. I have 100 million very close friends who are armed and who say it won't happen.

The saddest thing about the US is that a significant portion of the population holds such uneducated, narrow-minded views. Your presumption that the 2 most populated countries in the world are dirt poor is evidence of that.

The right-wing's constant parroting of freedom has resulted in the highest gun homicides rates of any developing country. What good is your freedom when children in the US have easy access to guns - often with fatal results.

There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state.

If you are living in the America, and don't like it because of the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms, then maybe consider moving to a country that doesn't think their citizens are mature enough to own a firearm. Australia comes to mind. Australians can't even protect themselves in their own homes where home invasions are rampant.

If you are a foreigner who doesn't live in the U.S., then why on earth would gun ownership in America, even concern you?

There are a lot of wonderful places in the world to live and many where people are trying to escape. The bottom line despite the liberal leftist cult lead by Obama, America continues to be the greatest country in the world.

Texas law enforcement did a good job containing the outlaw biker shootout. Law enforcement has rounded up most of these idiots that were involved in this incident, and rest assure despite the bleeding heart liberals who think America's prison system is too harsh, will receive the full benefit of the criminal justice system.

The NRA, the chain and padlock manufactures, nor the knife manufactures, had anything to do with this incident, as a couple of immature posters have suggested.

Children in the U.S. do not have easy access to guns as you suggested, unless they happen to have irresponsible parents or care takers.

"There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state. "

32,000 dead from firearms in one year and he finds nothing sad about it

edited mean spirited comment (nit noi self censoring )

Edited May 20, 2015 by sirineou

[CMNightRider]

There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state.

If you are living in the America, and don't like it because of the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms, then maybe consider moving to a country that doesn't think their citizens are mature enough to own a firearm. Australia comes to mind. Australians can't even protect themselves in their own homes where home invasions are rampant.

If you are a foreigner who doesn't live in the U.S., then why on earth would gun ownership in America, even concern you?

There are a lot of wonderful places in the world to live and many where people are trying to escape. The bottom line despite the liberal leftist cult lead by Obama, America continues to be the greatest country in the world.

Texas law enforcement did a good job containing the outlaw biker shootout. Law enforcement has rounded up most of these idiots that were involved in this incident, and rest assure despite the bleeding heart liberals who think America's prison system is too harsh, will receive the full benefit of the criminal justice system.

The NRA, the chain and padlock manufactures, nor the knife manufactures, had anything to do with this incident, as a couple of immature posters have suggested.

Children in the U.S. do not have easy access to guns as you suggested, unless they happen to have irresponsible parents or care takers.

"There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state. "

32,000 dead from firearms in one year and he finds nothing sad about it

edited mean spirited comment (nit noi self censoring )

I think you already know this but 60% of the 32,000 you quoted were suicides. About 700-800 were accidental deaths and about 11,000 were classified as homicides.

Around 35-55% of the homicides are gang related. Armed with this information, one would think the anti-gun people (weeping liberals) would focus their attention where the majority of the problem exists.

Unfortunately, most gun laws are aimed at law abiding citizens outside the gang culture which does little to stop gun violence.

[Publicus]

The saddest thing about the US is that a significant portion of the population holds such uneducated, narrow-minded views. Your presumption that the 2 most populated countries in the world are dirt poor is evidence of that.

The right-wing's constant parroting of freedom has resulted in the highest gun homicides rates of any developing country. What good is your freedom when children in the US have easy access to guns - often with fatal results.

There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state.

If you are living in the America, and don't like it because of the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms, then maybe consider moving to a country that doesn't think their citizens are mature enough to own a firearm. Australia comes to mind. Australians can't even protect themselves in their own homes where home invasions are rampant.

If you are a foreigner who doesn't live in the U.S., then why on earth would gun ownership in America, even concern you?

There are a lot of wonderful places in the world to live and many where people are trying to escape. The bottom line despite the liberal leftist cult lead by Obama, America continues to be the greatest country in the world.

Texas law enforcement did a good job containing the outlaw biker shootout. Law enforcement has rounded up most of these idiots that were involved in this incident, and rest assure despite the bleeding heart liberals who think America's prison system is too harsh, will receive the full benefit of the criminal justice system.

The NRA, the chain and padlock manufactures, nor the knife manufactures, had anything to do with this incident, as a couple of immature posters have suggested.

Children in the U.S. do not have easy access to guns as you suggested, unless they happen to have irresponsible parents or care takers.

Texas law enforcement did a good job containing the outlaw biker shootout.

Texas law enforcement had a large hand in enabling this violent spasm of a bloodbath, the shootout at the Twin Peaks eatery.

Texas law enforcement has tolerated and accepted these always armed and deadly dangerous biker-gangbangers for a long time as has the wacko community of Waco Texas itself.

Rather than long ago shake down these biker gangbangers to disarm them in the city's streets and at this public corral restaurant, Texas law enforcement has been wholly derelict in its obligation to the peace and order of the city and its people and in respect of best principles and practices of law enforcement in the United States.

These armed criminal gangbanger bikers came and went as they pleased and both the police and the community accepted that without question.

As has been pointed out at the thread, Texas law enforcement to include the Texas Rangers actually allowed this meeting of the five major armed bike gangs in the United States. So did the public restaurant which itself welcomed the five gangs on the day of the bloodbath as it had done so openly and eagerly so many times in the past.

This Waco police sergeant who keeps appearing on TV at news briefings actually thinks he and the police there are doing a stupendous job of it and always have been doing a bang up job of it. That the television personality sergeant is delusional proves he has no actual idea of law enforcement in the United States.

The gangbang armed biker gangsters did what they did due in large part to the acquiescence of the local and state police to include the Texas Rangers, all of which had never taken the bikers to task for their lawlessness. The gangs of bikers did what they did in large part because they felt they owned the town and its public streets and places, not to mention the police.

Fail.

[sirineou]

There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state.

If you are living in the America, and don't like it because of the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms, then maybe consider moving to a country that doesn't think their citizens are mature enough to own a firearm. Australia comes to mind. Australians can't even protect themselves in their own homes where home invasions are rampant.

If you are a foreigner who doesn't live in the U.S., then why on earth would gun ownership in America, even concern you?

There are a lot of wonderful places in the world to live and many where people are trying to escape. The bottom line despite the liberal leftist cult lead by Obama, America continues to be the greatest country in the world.

Texas law enforcement did a good job containing the outlaw biker shootout. Law enforcement has rounded up most of these idiots that were involved in this incident, and rest assure despite the bleeding heart liberals who think America's prison system is too harsh, will receive the full benefit of the criminal justice system.

The NRA, the chain and padlock manufactures, nor the knife manufactures, had anything to do with this incident, as a couple of immature posters have suggested.

Children in the U.S. do not have easy access to guns as you suggested, unless they happen to have irresponsible parents or care takers.

"There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state. "

32,000 dead from firearms in one year and he finds nothing sad about it

edited mean spirited comment (nit noi self censoring )

I think you already know this but 60% of the 32,000 you quoted were suicides. About 700-800 were accidental deaths and about 11,000 were classified as homicides.

Around 35-55% of the homicides are gang related. Armed with this information, one would think the anti-gun people (weeping liberals) would focus their attention where the majority of the problem exists.

Unfortunately, most gun laws are aimed at law abiding citizens outside the gang culture which does little to stop gun violence.

again, the fact that 60% of those deaths were suicides and accidents, does not make it better for me, does it make it better for you?

and is 11,000 homicides your comfort level?

[Publicus]

I knew this would devolve into an anti-gun "debate". From my point of view, you can't "debate" with anti-gunners, most are afraid to even look at a firearm, let alone touch one, Buddha forbid...lol. Let me say something to really get the anti-gun crowd panties wedged tight to start with. Those guys couldn't hit the red side of a green barn. All those people and only a few dead, how embarrassing. Back to school kids, if you carry learn to shoot. I was NRA for many years, not now, not for many years, I don't like how the organization has changed. You anti-gunners would be taken aback at the fact that my AK-47, M14 (CMP-upgraded to Nat. Match standards), 2 M-1's, M-1 carbine, .308 BSA customized, 300 Win. Mag, Mod. 700 Remington (very "customized"), SKS (brought from Vietnam) also bedded, 2 Mod. 870 Remington 12 gauge plus my dads old Stevens 12 gauge single, Colt Gov't Mod. 1911A1 .45 (custom), Taraus .45, S&W Mod. 586 .357, various .22's, and others, reloading equipment and 1,000's of rounds of ammo was considered small potatoes. I started practicing with my dad's old S&W 32-20 well before going to 9th grade and I'm still damn good. Killed many a critter with Savage Mod. 24 .22/410 over-under. Feed a family of 4 with game I killed. Guns are tools, people are idiots. The right wing does not own the right to own guns (no Obama isn't and never was coming to take your guns, Hillary might), many, many left wingers of which I am, do also and are good with them. My gut feeling is this all started when a couple of "bad-asses" decided to prove themselves. Who knows, maybe even a provocateur involved, I put nothing past the cops these days. For that matter, nothing in days gone bye. Yea, and I did 10 years as a NM law enforcement officer.

I was NRA for many years, not now, not for many years, I don't like how the organization has changed

You are up front and open about it and you are not at all afraid of your former association and affiliation with the NRA, why you left it, which is all highly informative to everyone and assists us to know more about you and your posts in this respect, all of which if I may say is commendable and exemplary.

Others, namely those on the marginal right, remain silent concerning a membership and affiliation of the NRA. The right that always and every time post to the gun threads will neither confirm nor deny a membership of the NRA, nor will they discuss any possible affiliation by them of the NRA.

It really is their business to say or not, to speak up and out or to remain silent about a possible membership of the NRA. I'd suggest a full disclosure would be prudent to make.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Publicus

[sdanielmcev]

Nobody 'allowed' the bikers to meet. Police are out gunned and out manned by these biker gangs. It is nonsense to parrot sensationalist news stories and cite them as fact. Often containment is their only option. Know how hard it is to get an organized crime conviction? Down the liberal road the police must go, while some jackwagon here wants to blame law enforcement.

[CMNightRider]

There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state.

If you are living in the America, and don't like it because of the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms, then maybe consider moving to a country that doesn't think their citizens are mature enough to own a firearm. Australia comes to mind. Australians can't even protect themselves in their own homes where home invasions are rampant.

If you are a foreigner who doesn't live in the U.S., then why on earth would gun ownership in America, even concern you?

There are a lot of wonderful places in the world to live and many where people are trying to escape. The bottom line despite the liberal leftist cult lead by Obama, America continues to be the greatest country in the world.

Texas law enforcement did a good job containing the outlaw biker shootout. Law enforcement has rounded up most of these idiots that were involved in this incident, and rest assure despite the bleeding heart liberals who think America's prison system is too harsh, will receive the full benefit of the criminal justice system.

The NRA, the chain and padlock manufactures, nor the knife manufactures, had anything to do with this incident, as a couple of immature posters have suggested.

Children in the U.S. do not have easy access to guns as you suggested, unless they happen to have irresponsible parents or care takers.

"There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state. "

32,000 dead from firearms in one year and he finds nothing sad about it

edited mean spirited comment (nit noi self censoring )

I agree, your posts tend to be sad if that is what you are trying to say. Instead of posting a partial sentence from an article you read, it may have been more interesting if you had brought up all the facts in that article.

[JDGRUEN]

Nobody 'allowed' the bikers to meet. Police are out gunned and out manned by these biker gangs. It is nonsense to parrot sensationalist news stories and cite them as fact. Often containment is their only option. Know how hard it is to get an organized crime conviction? Down the liberal road the police must go, while some jackwagon here wants to blame law enforcement.

Not to mention that prior to acts of violence -- the bikers were enjoying the rights to freedom of assembly -- same as the protesters in Baltimore ... things went south at both places despite police presence during the preliminaries.

I suppose that the police were to Stop and Frisk without probable cause - the same police method that has be stopped in NY City after much protest about civil rights.

The inconsistency of the Loud Left would be comical were it not for the subject matter.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed. Please stay on topic. This is not exactly a leftist-media thread.

[impulse]

Nobody 'allowed' the bikers to meet. Police are out gunned and out manned by these biker gangs. It is nonsense to parrot sensationalist news stories and cite them as fact. Often containment is their only option. Know how hard it is to get an organized crime conviction? Down the liberal road the police must go, while some jackwagon here wants to blame law enforcement.

If you really want to hose these guys, have a hacker break into their bank account and send some money to a "charity" in the Middle East.

Or, even easier, label them as a terrorist organization and a threat to (inter) national security, which they are...

I agree, the cops did an admirable job.

[CMNightRider]

There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state.

If you are living in the America, and don't like it because of the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms, then maybe consider moving to a country that doesn't think their citizens are mature enough to own a firearm. Australia comes to mind. Australians can't even protect themselves in their own homes where home invasions are rampant.

If you are a foreigner who doesn't live in the U.S., then why on earth would gun ownership in America, even concern you?

There are a lot of wonderful places in the world to live and many where people are trying to escape. The bottom line despite the liberal leftist cult lead by Obama, America continues to be the greatest country in the world.

Texas law enforcement did a good job containing the outlaw biker shootout. Law enforcement has rounded up most of these idiots that were involved in this incident, and rest assure despite the bleeding heart liberals who think America's prison system is too harsh, will receive the full benefit of the criminal justice system.

The NRA, the chain and padlock manufactures, nor the knife manufactures, had anything to do with this incident, as a couple of immature posters have suggested.

Children in the U.S. do not have easy access to guns as you suggested, unless they happen to have irresponsible parents or care takers.

"There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state. "

32,000 dead from firearms in one year and he finds nothing sad about it

edited mean spirited comment (nit noi self censoring )

I think you already know this but 60% of the 32,000 you quoted were suicides. About 700-800 were accidental deaths and about 11,000 were classified as homicides.

Around 35-55% of the homicides are gang related. Armed with this information, one would think the anti-gun people (weeping liberals) would focus their attention where the majority of the problem exists.

Unfortunately, most gun laws are aimed at law abiding citizens outside the gang culture which does little to stop gun violence.

again, the fact that 60% of those deaths were suicides and accidents, does not make it better for me, does it make it better for you?

and is 11,000 homicides your comfort level?

Lol, I think you missed the part that are gang related. Your posts are difficult to follow. What are you trying to say about the biker incident?

[CMNightRider]

As a previous post of mine to the thread points out....

The NRA members and allies take the approach that when you can't beat the other guy, attack him and then try to dismiss him.

Yet it remains true that people who have the facts pound on the facts while people who don't have the facts have to pound on the table.

NRA people and their allies have their own set of facts and they pound on the table a lot too.

I'm not certain where you are getting your facts about the biker shootout in Texas, but the NRA were not involved in this incident.

In one of your other posts, you blame law enforcement for allowing this shootout to take place. Over and over again, you have displayed your hatred for law enforcement in America.

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Edited May 20, 2015 by CMNightRider

[NeverSure]

LOL. What the police did wrong was fail to cordon off the area so that the gang bangers could subject themselves to Darwin's law without interference.

We really need to get some common sense laws about motorcycles and hamburgers.

[chuckd]

LOL. What the police did wrong was fail to cordon off the area so that the gang bangers could subject themselves to Darwin's law without interference.

We really need to get some common sense laws about motorcycles and hamburgers.

Or the authorities of WACO could have taken the same action taken by the Boston authorities after the marathon bombings.

Shut down the entire city for 2-3 days while they tried to find all the bad guys.

[NeverSure]

I wonder how many the police killed. I have yet to see a gang banger who could shoot well. They steal a gun or buy from an "across the border" gun runner and think they are all tough. Nine dead.

[bobbin]

I guess a stiff dick has neither a conscience or a political ideology.....

Given that most (not all) posters are living here in Thailand, (it is a Thailand focused forum) that means they are self-selected to be here....

Yet there is a clear right/left divide.

Anyway, it doesn't tale much cogitation to realize that there must be a reason to be here, held in common by both camps....

[thaiguzzi]

I wonder how many the police killed. I have yet to see a gang banger who could shoot well. They steal a gun or buy from an "across the border" gun runner and think they are all tough. Nine dead.

What if a large portion of the bikers had no previous criminal convictions, had a legit firearms license, and even permit to carry paperwork? I am sure some were ex military vets, and some were regular target shooters at the local gun club. Entirely plausible, as is the fact most were normal blue collar workers and family men. It's not all rape and pillage, and biting the heads off chickens...

[goreme]

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

[MaxYakov]

I wonder how many the police killed. I have yet to see a gang banger who could shoot well. They steal a gun or buy from an "across the border" gun runner and think they are all tough. Nine dead.

What if a large portion of the bikers had no previous criminal convictions, had a legit firearms license, and even permit to carry paperwork? I am sure some were ex military vets, and some were regular target shooters at the local gun club. Entirely plausible, as is the fact most were normal blue collar workers and family men. It's not all rape and pillage, and biting the heads off chickens...

Ya think? They look like innocent extras for Sons of Anarchy to me (Ref: www.telegraph.co.uk):

Edited May 20, 2015 by MaxYakov

[chuckd]

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

I don't see a lot of black faces in that group. Do you?

[thaiguzzi]

Re, the mug shots. And your point is? I am aware they are bikers, hence they don't look like lawyers, bankers or insurance salesmen. Guilty by appearance, let alone association is a new one on me.

[goreme]

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

I don't see a lot of black faces in that group. Do you?

Do you think this single incident is indicative of police behavior in US?

[impulse]

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

I don't see a lot of black faces in that group. Do you?

Could be because the black MC riders were on the side of the interstate being searched for drugs and weapons, and never made it to the meet.

There are some corridors in Texas and the rest of the south where "profiled" cars are stopped for minor (or made-up) traffic infractions, and then the driver is asked for permission to search the vehicle. If they give permission, they get searched. If they don't give permission, higher ranking cops come to the scene, and it escalates until they get a warrant. I suspect most citizens get intimidated long before, and just give permission.

It seems that refusal to be searched has become the new "reasonable cause". I can't count the thousands of times I've passed a car on a Texas or Louisiana interstate with the entire contents of the trunk spread out over the side of the road. And in the vast majority of the times, the occupants have been people of color.

Stories in the news exposes indicated the cars were profiled because of the plates, or rental stickers, or type of car, and it's drug related. But I have my suspicions... I can't say it's still happening because I haven't been to the US in quite a few years now. But it was happening a lot in the 2000's.

[CMNightRider]

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

Lol. This may come as a shock to you but black people were not involved in this incident. Don't feel bad, there is another naive poster who believes the NRA was somehow involved in this shootout.

[CMNightRider]

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

Are you speaking from experience, just making this up, or you saw this in a movie?

[impulse]

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

Are you speaking from experience, just making this up, or you saw this in a movie?

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/20/nation/na-nocops20

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-texas-profiling_wittmar10-story.html#page=1

That good enough? 'Cause there's lots more...

Edited May 20, 2015 by impulse

[CMNightRider]

As a previous post of mine to the thread points out....

The NRA members and allies take the approach that when you can't beat the other guy, attack him and then try to dismiss him.

Yet it remains true that people who have the facts pound on the facts while people who don't have the facts have to pound on the table.

NRA people and their allies have their own set of facts and they pound on the table a lot too.

You seem obsessed about the NRA, as your previous post points out. This will probably come as a disappointment but the NRA was not involved in this incident.

Texas law enforcement did a good job in arresting the people that participated in the shootout, and there was no mention of NRA involvement.

[CMNightRider]

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

Are you speaking from experience, just making this up, or you saw this in a movie?

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/20/nation/na-nocops20

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-texas-profiling_wittmar10-story.html#page=1

That good enough? 'Cause there's lots more...

The first article you posted was from 2006 and the second from 2009. Does this mean all law enforcement in Texas, are less than honest or the Waco law enforcement officers are dishonest? Of course not.

If you commit a crime in America, it doesn't make any difference if you are a police officer, priest, or in this incident outlaw bikers, you will be held accountable.

To my knowledge, there were no corrupt police involved in this incident, no black people participated in the shootout, and no people of color were harmed by the police or the bikers. Wow, that kind of narrows it down now doesn't it.

[zydeco]

Biker Lives Matter. I think the Justice Department should launch an immediate probe into why these men were harassed, shot, and arrested for being guilty of merely being bikers. Several were no doubt aspiring HVAC students mercilessly gunned down just a few days short of their graduation from technical college. Is Anderson Cooper there yet?

[impulse]

You act as if you are not aware of probable cause. Police in America, can't just stop a vehicle unless they have probable cause nor can they just walk up to a person and search them. It doesn't make any difference if the person is wearing a jacket will a biker gang logo on it or if they are dressed in a bunny suit.

Yes, police in America are known to come up with their own probable cause when it suits them, and quite often if the person is black.

Are you speaking from experience, just making this up, or you saw this in a movie?

The first article you posted was from 2006 and the second from 2009. Does this mean all law enforcement in Texas, are less than honest or the Waco law enforcement officers are dishonest? Of course not.

If you commit a crime in America, it doesn't make any difference if you are a police officer, priest, or in this incident outlaw bikers, you will be held accountable.

To my knowledge, there were no corrupt police involved in this incident, no black people participated in the shootout, and no people of color were harmed by the police or the bikers. Wow, that kind of narrows it down now doesn't it.

Read the thread to get the context. You're arguing against a point I didn't make... Sorry I had to delete one quote block.