Change of our condos law / bylaw

[zappalot]

We have two channots and they include altogether three parking lots in the attached parking garage.

Since our building is located next to an office building many rent out their parking lot to office staff.

Some members of our new committee think that it is very dangerous to rent out the parking lot and let other people park on our parking area. They say no one can take the risk (yet cannot give even one example what that risk could be) and are to change the condo law of our building so that it would not be any longer allowed to rent out our car parking lot in the parking garage.

Can they simply take action by them self?

I thought that any change to the condo law of our building need to get approval by the annually general meeting. 50% of the votes of all building they need or in the second meeting if in the first one not enough co-owners show up 33% in the second one.

If one thing is for sure than that they would never ever get 50% of the votes in an AGM.

So is the right place to complain to the land department then? Anyone any experience with this or similar situations?

I mean my wife is in the committee and we just received word yesterday that they made this decision already in an inofficial committee meeting where they did not invite the two committee members opposing there plans.

In general the situation in our place got out of control. One of the committee members is sitting several hours per day in the office of our management ordering them around and making decisions without asking anyone, but backed up by the committee chairman.

But this chairman is not very interested in what's going on, he just think that the committee member spending hours every day in the office is doing a good job no matter what. Even if we already had to let the district office show up to revoke the decision to lock emergency exits in our building making it very clear that they verve wrong in doing so.

[smutcakes]

Do the people who are renting out the spaces have the space on the title deed of their unit? Normally you would have the unit on one part and a small box illustrating the title deed of the parking space. Or is it common area but assigned spaces?

[ripley]

"Some members of our new committee think that it is very dangerous to rent out the parking lot and let other people park on our parking area. They say no one can take the risk (yet cannot give even one example what that risk could be) and are to change the condo law of our building so that it would not be any longer allowed to rent out our car parking lot in the parking garage."

Regarding danger, I think it depends on where your parking facilities are located. If in a semi-enclosed part of the building - particularly if there is easy access into the condo bldg. from the parking area - I agree with your committee that having non-owners park there might present a danger to the residents. If outdoors in the open, I don't see a problem. I've never heard of anyone renting out their parking spots. Is it common practice?

"Can they simply take action by them self?

I thought that any change to the condo law of our building need to get approval by the annually general meeting. 50% of the votes of all building they need or in the second meeting if in the first one not enough co-owners show up 33% in the second one.

If one thing is for sure than that they would never ever get 50% of the votes in an AGM."

You are correct - the committee cannot legally take this action on their own. It needs to be brought to a vote at your annual general mtng. (AGM). And, making any change to your Condo Regulations is a big deal - as you say, requiring a 50% vote of the total owners. Check the law but I think in a Second Call AGM, making any change to the Regs. still requires a 33% vote from the total of owners.

"So is the right place to complain to the land department then? Anyone any experience with this or similar situations?"

This is an offence against Thai Condominium Law, so I would take the matter to the Land Office immediately even before the AGM to demonstrate to the Committee that they cannot play fast and loose with your Regulations and take arbitrary decisions. Some will tell you that the Land Office is slow, etc. but - with all its faults - when they come down on something they come down most firmly.

"In general the situation in our place got out of control. One of the committee members is sitting several hours per day in the office of our management ordering them around and making decisions without asking anyone, but backed up by the committee chairman."

Yep! We had one of those. A Committee member was sitting in the office every day and giving orders that had not been sanctioned by the Committee. He ordered the bookkeeper to keep separate books using his own system. He regularly gave orders to the Security Guards, Gardeners and cleaners. This caused a lot of resentment and confusion amongst the staff. While it's admirable that someone cares enough about the Condo to put in such a lot of time & attention, what this person is doing isn't appropriate nor is it within the law. In our case, a few of the members simply and politely told the person to stop meddling with the workings of the Business Office and other staff.The appropriate and certainly the most useful thing for your Committee member to do, if s/he is willing, is to monitor the work of the Business Office and report any issues in Committee meetings. I'd suggest that your wife, as a Committee Member should state her complaints in a meeting. It will go down more easily if she adds that she does appreciate the Member's willingness to put in so much time.

[zappalot]

As of now I know for sure that a certain parking lot/space is on the chanot/title deed. The parking space itself, I mean where the car is actually parked is not common area.

But I will let my wife have a look on it in the evening when she is back how it is actually mentioned in the chanot itself...

[Delight]

The committee generate policy . It does not implement policy. That is a job for the JPM(or the building manager if your structure embodies one)

If the committee are foreigners without work permits then ordering people about is in breach of their immigration status.

The JPM is however responsible for the quiet living and the safety of the co -owners.

Given that the parking area is private area then I cannot see how the committee can have any influence except to alert other authorities such as the fire service for them to view the situation and make recommendations.

In fact you, and other interested parties, may wish to ask the fire service to survey the site and provide a written list of potential changes-if any

This should solve the problem and eliminate the committee from your private arrangements.

[pitchag]

As regards to the committee member spending hours in the office is a falang and is ordering the the staff about, that is classed as work in Thailand and he needs an active work permit to do what he is doing. Maybe a word in his ear or somebody elses ear would help put a stop to him.

It only needs one of the disgruntled staff to report him to immigration and he risks deportation

Edited May 20, 2015 by pitchag

[blackcab]

"Some members of our new committee think that it is very dangerous to rent out the parking lot and let other people park on our parking area. They say no one can take the risk (yet cannot give even one example what that risk could be) and are to change the condo law of our building so that it would not be any longer allowed to rent out our car parking lot in the parking garage."

Regarding danger, I think it depends on where your parking facilities are located. If in a semi-enclosed part of the building - particularly if there is easy access into the condo bldg. from the parking area - I agree with your committee that having non-owners park there might present a danger to the residents. If outdoors in the open, I don't see a problem. I've never heard of anyone renting out their parking spots. Is it common practice?

"Can they simply take action by them self?

I thought that any change to the condo law of our building need to get approval by the annually general meeting. 50% of the votes of all building they need or in the second meeting if in the first one not enough co-owners show up 33% in the second one.

If one thing is for sure than that they would never ever get 50% of the votes in an AGM."

You are correct - the committee cannot legally take this action on their own. It needs to be brought to a vote at your annual general mtng. (AGM). And, making any change to your Condo Regulations is a big deal - as you say, requiring a 50% vote of the total owners. Check the law but I think in a Second Call AGM, making any change to the Regs. still requires a 33% vote from the total of owners.

"So is the right place to complain to the land department then? Anyone any experience with this or similar situations?"

This is an offence against Thai Condominium Law, so I would take the matter to the Land Office immediately even before the AGM to demonstrate to the Committee that they cannot play fast and loose with your Regulations and take arbitrary decisions. Some will tell you that the Land Office is slow, etc. but - with all its faults - when they come down on something they come down most firmly.

"In general the situation in our place got out of control. One of the committee members is sitting several hours per day in the office of our management ordering them around and making decisions without asking anyone, but backed up by the committee chairman."

Yep! We had one of those. A Committee member was sitting in the office every day and giving orders that had not been sanctioned by the Committee. He ordered the bookkeeper to keep separate books using his own system. He regularly gave orders to the Security Guards, Gardeners and cleaners. This caused a lot of resentment and confusion amongst the staff. While it's admirable that someone cares enough about the Condo to put in such a lot of time & attention, what this person is doing isn't appropriate nor is it within the law. In our case, a few of the members simply and politely told the person to stop meddling with the workings of the Business Office and other staff.The appropriate and certainly the most useful thing for your Committee member to do, if s/he is willing, is to monitor the work of the Business Office and report any issues in Committee meetings. I'd suggest that your wife, as a Committee Member should state her complaints in a meeting. It will go down more easily if she adds that she does appreciate the Member's willingness to put in so much time.

I don't know if it's common practice, but I know one condo near Sukhumvit 39 where owners rent out their space for 1,000 baht a month. This is a minority of owners who generally have two spaces and only one car.

The parking is underneath the condo in an area where anyone (in theory) could walk into as there is no barrier. There is a security guard at the entrance and to get into the condo you need an access card.

[zappalot]

Actually there are no foreigners involved, the only foreigner involved is me by getting together some information :-) hope thats not classified as work

[Minnehaha]

Folks have already clarified the key issues....

To make changes to the bylaws requires an AGM or EGM, with 'quorum' requirements observed, as stated.

The committee cannot do this... as stated.

The Land Office would be interested to see the documentation of what is going on and can / will be your only leverage with this situation. Furthermore, when you live in a building and have to share space (lift, etc.) with people, it is best not to be confrontational. Personally, for my own peace of mind, I keep this in mind. Choose your battles and get someone else to fight them (Land Office). And the Land Office(s) can be motivated by a small facilitation payment or fee to 'jump the queue', so to speak.

One issue someone may raise is insurance liability coverage (for what happens in the garage, and depends on the kind of coverage, but should cover anything involving vehicles of any kind whether they are owners or visitors of any type.) So I would check that.

[bazza40]

Yet another argument for renting vs buying. Can't believe the crap owners have to endure.

[zappalot]

Thank you for everyone's input. I just want to add that anyone renting a car parking space in our car parking garage cannot get into our building. The access card for the garage is only providing access to the garage.

For some more stories about what's going on in our building you may have a look at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/826916-our-committees-doings-stuff-for-a-movie/

Edited May 21, 2015 by zappalot

[smutcakes]

Thank you for everyone's input. I just want to add that anyone renting a car parking space in our car parking garage cannot get into our building. The access card for the garage is only providing access to the garage.

For some more stories about what's going on in our building you may have a look at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/826916-our-committees-doings-stuff-for-a-movie/

Are there a lot of them at start and work leaving times? Are extra guards deployed to deal with it, which would obviously be an expense burden on all owners?

[zappalot]

I don't understand your question. As I said: the people renting the car park space do not have access to the residential building. So why should there be extra guards? Actually everyone from the street has access to our parking garage without having to pass any security guard. So that is the real threat.