UN says will engage Israel on 'realistic options' for talks

[webfact]

UN says will engage Israel on 'realistic options' for talks
CARA ANNA, Associated Press

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The United Nations' new Middle East envoy said Tuesday that he and the U.N. secretary-general will engage Israel's new government to explore "realistic options" for a return to talks with the Palestinians aimed at a two-state solution within a reasonable time frame.

Nikolay Mladenov also used his first briefing to the U.N. Security Council to remind Israel that settlement activity is illegal under international law and to call on Israel's government to stop such actions.

The international community is looking for ways to revive talks after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said shortly before his re-election in March that he would not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state on his watch.

A French-proposed council resolution setting a framework for negotiations has been on hold as Israel's new government formed. It likely will see little progress until world powers complete nuclear talks with Iran by a deadline they have set for the end of June.

Even if that text moves forward, the United States, Israel's closest ally, has traditionally used its veto power as a permanent council member to block resolutions on the issue that it considers unbalanced.

Two decades of talks brokered mainly by the United States have failed to produce a two-state solution. The latest effort fell short last year after nine months of negotiations. Gaps between Israeli and Palestinian positions remain vast.

Frustrated by the stalled progress, the Palestinians in April officially joined the International Criminal Court in hopes of prosecuting Israel for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity during the 50-day Gaza conflict last year.

ICC prosecutor Fatou Bensouda this month told The Associated Press that prosecutors also will look at other issues, potentially including Israel's settlement construction on occupied Palestinian lands.

Mladenov on Tuesday called for Israel's new government to freeze settlement activity and take other "credible steps" to help talks with the Palestinians resume.

"The coming period will be critical to the future of the peace process," he said, adding that any agreement will require a regional solution and "greater engagement with key Arab states."


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-05-20

[NeverSure]

"International Community." LOL. They are about to be reminded that Israel is a sovereign nation. Google "sovereign" UN, and then go take a

flying one at a rolling donut. 555

[ABCer]

The last half century ambitions of various Presidents of US, UN General Secretaries and a spectrum of envoys from different corners have born no sweet fruit.

Peace in this corner of the World was always a rare commodity and never long lasting unless under blanket of an overwhelming imperial force.

This is from general historical perspective.

More into today's situation -

# Israel is and will stay. Jews will never agree to be dispersed again. Not even if the ghost of Roman Empire or Papa's Mamma say so.

# Two States is no solution. No number of elections will change this.

# Assimilation is no solution. No election outcome will change this.

I have mentioned this before and was asked to submit a workable 'solution'. I wish I had one. 3,000 years of history and people smarter than Obama, Bush, Carter and Mladenov tried to pave the 'road to peace'.

I have no answers. I can only guarantee that no poster here is smart enough to find any.

As to the the stone throwers with foaming bad mouths I repeat: - Israel is here. It will stay. It will get stronger. It will be always stronger than its enemies. And I prefer this to the Islam re-conquista of the World.

[Seastallion]

Considering that the UN was formed in 1945 for the notion of "never again" after WW2, and considering the history behind the formation of the state of Israel, it's beyond arrogance for Israel to continually ignore the UN.

[Ulysses G.]

The UN has been bought by Arab oil and Arab oil money. Israel would have to be stupid NOT to ignore the UN.

[ABCer]

Considering that the UN was formed in 1945 for the notion of "never again" after WW2, and considering the history behind the formation of the state of Israel, it's beyond arrogance for Israel to continually ignore the UN.

1) Compare UN in 1945 and UN today. In my Condo the owners who do not pay their bills are not allowed to vote in General Annual Meetings.

2) That "notion" of 'never again' is unrealistic and incompatible with human nature. It has been breached almost on a daily basis.

3) The history behind the formation of the State of Israel has UN approval. For whatever it was worth.

4) True, the UN as it is today doesn't pass a day's urine without passing a resolution against Israel. For whatever it is worth.

5) UN resolutions are irrelevant. Every self-respecting country from USA to Russia, China, Israel and so on, from time to time take a piss on such resolutions.

6) The whole concept of UN in its present form makes it irrelevant.

[Seastallion]

The UN has been bought by Arab oil and Arab oil money. Israel would have to be stupid NOT to ignore the UN.

Just as the diversionary "Oh, but other countries are nasty too" does not mitigate Israel's crimes, these baseless allegations do nothing to suggest Israel should continue it's illegal expansion into occupied territory.

It's a ridiculous notion; I commit crimes, and continue to commit crimes,....because someone else commits crimes and my crticisers may be biased.

It takes NOTHING away from the fact that I'm still committing crimes! Should I be free to continue my crime spree?

[dexterm]

The last half century ambitions of various Presidents of US, UN General Secretaries and a spectrum of envoys from different corners have born no sweet fruit.

Peace in this corner of the World was always a rare commodity and never long lasting unless under blanket of an overwhelming imperial force.

This is from general historical perspective.

More into today's situation -

# Israel is and will stay. Jews will never agree to be dispersed again. Not even if the ghost of Roman Empire or Papa's Mamma say so.

# Two States is no solution. No number of elections will change this.

# Assimilation is no solution. No election outcome will change this.

I have mentioned this before and was asked to submit a workable 'solution'. I wish I had one. 3,000 years of history and people smarter than Obama, Bush, Carter and Mladenov tried to pave the 'road to peace'.

I have no answers. I can only guarantee that no poster here is smart enough to find any.

As to the the stone throwers with foaming bad mouths I repeat: - Israel is here. It will stay. It will get stronger. It will be always stronger than its enemies. And I prefer this to the Islam re-conquista of the World.

Jews will never agree to be dispersed again.

...no-one is asking them to. It's the dispersal of the Palestinians by the Jews that I am concerned about.The Zionists have done so twice already in 1948 and 1967.

Confiscating Palestinian land in the West Bank to build illegal settlements for Jews only seems a precursor for a 3rd wave of ethnic cleansing.

I am glad UN envoy Mladenov is reminding Israel of its obligations under the Geneva Convention and UN Resolutions. But maybe he is just going through the motions. I have my doubts with regards to his background

"Mladenov not only failed in a similar mission as UN envoy to Iraq and resigned, he is someone who describes himself — and is described by the leaders of the Israeli occupation — as “a good friend of Israel”. As Bulgarian foreign minister, Mladenov suggested a “military alliance” between Bulgaria and Israel. "

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/News/10478/21/Mladenov-is-persona-non-grata.aspx

[Ulysses G.]

If the Palestinians had not started all those wars, they would not have been "ethnic cleansed". They started the violence and brought it on themselves. Payback is a beach.

[Thorgal]

The UN has been bought by Arab oil and Arab oil money. Israel would have to be stupid NOT to ignore the UN.

I think you confuse with the FIFA.

Do you have any credible source that the Arabs are corrupted ?

How many times did Israel participated in a UN military intervention with its most moral army in the world for humanitarian or peacekeeping purposes ?

[dexterm]

"International Community." LOL. They are about to be reminded that Israel is a sovereign nation. Google "sovereign" UN, and then go take a

flying one at a rolling donut. 555

I would love for the so called sovereign state of Israel to declare exactly where its borders are...it has never done so. It's expansionist Israel that poses a problem to its neighbors, not the other way around.

Not to worry. No nation is an island entire unto itself..politically speaking of course. Other nations have been brought to their economic knees when they refuse to follow the rules of civilized 21st century society. So too with Israel when its largest trading partner the EU eventually imposes sanctions on it. That's when many Israelis, most of whom of course hold 2nd passports will head for the airport, which will herald the end of the Zionist dream.

Ironically, on this very day another island nation (geographic this time) not so far away, had one of their royals shaking hands with an ex terrorist labelled leader who may have been responsible for the death of his royal uncle.Just shows how one can make the impossible possible, if one tries.

Maybe Israel should heed the advice of the new UN envoy Mladenov and start taking a similar path to reconciliation.

Edited May 20, 2015 by dexterm

[Seastallion]

If the Palestinians had not started all those wars, they would not have been "ethnic cleansed". They started the violence and brought it on themselves. Payback is a beach.

So, payback is an acceptable beach?

If so, you will have to accept payback from dispossessed, occupied, ravaged, Palestinians, yeah? Or is that payback unacceptable?

[Ulysses G.]

Do you have any credible source that the Arabs are corrupted ?

You may have a future as an amateur comedian.

It is not exact;y a secret that Israel was not invited to participate in any UN military interventions, because Arab countries would refuse to participate.

[dexterm]

If the Palestinians had not started all those wars, they would not have been "ethnic cleansed". They started the violence and brought it on themselves. Payback is a beach.

Zionism has been the root cause of the whole conflict and every single war.

According to The Jewish Virtual Library

In 1800 Jews formed a mere 8.7% (24,000) and Palestinians 91.3% (275,000) of the population.

Even in 1922 when the first census was taken, Jews were only 11% of the population.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Go figure who the invaders are.

And these Zionist invaders came not as invited guests, but with the intention right from the start of displacing the resident population of Palestinians, which they have succceeded in doing. And now they want to do it again. No wonder the Palestinians objected and resisted.

The first Prime Minister of Israel, David Ben Gurion admitted the truth: "Politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. Militarily, it is we who are on the defensive who have the upper hand but in the political sphere they are superior."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

The present Israeli government is not interested in UN talks. They just want to maintain the status quo, and manage the conflict, which is ultimately not in their best interest as the world becomes more aware of the injustice Israel has perpetrated against its Palestinian neighbors. The times they are a changin.

Edited May 20, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

Zionism has been the root cause of the whole conflict and every single war.

According to The Jewish Virtual Library

You are back to your usual lies and distortions. The Jewish Virtual Library is a great resource. Too bad you don't read any further than partial information you use to make dishonest points. Yes, Jews made up a small amount of the population around the turn of last century, which is why there was no reason for the Arabs to start attacking and murdering them. THAT was the root cause of the conflict.

According to The Jewish Virtual Library:

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. From the beginning of World War I, however, part of Palestine’s land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins. 18

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as “the most important asset of the native population.” Ben-Gurion said “under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them.” He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. “Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement,” Ben-Gurion added, “should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.” 19

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFmandate.html

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

All this feelgood "Let us Zionists help the local Palestinian population to a better life" is a crock of nonsense.

Zionism's purpose, I think even the Israeli apologists will agree, was to establish a Jewish State in Palestine. So how mathematically do you achieve that if you are a minority and the majority Palestinians naturally dont want that..to see their land, their culture, their religion swamped by mainly American and European invaders?

You do it by making the Jewish minority the majority.And they have achieved that by ethnic cleansing, which they now want to repeat a 3rd time in the West Bank. Ironically that will destroy any chance of the original Zionist dream.

The best chance for a viable secure state of Israel with a predominantly Jewish character is to heed the advice in the OP.

to explore "realistic options" for a return to talks with the Palestinians aimed at a two-state solution within a reasonable time frame.

[Ulysses G.]

Zionism's purpose, I think even the Israeli apologists will agree, was to establish a Jewish State in Palestine. So how mathematically do you achieve that if you are a minority

Easy. You buy some land and make that your state which is just what they Jews tried to do. There was plenty left for the Arabs. In fact, the UN created TWO homelands for Palestinians, but they were still not satisfied. They declared war on Israel and - as usual - LOST.

[Ulysses G.]

If the Palestinians had not started all those wars, they would not have been "ethnic cleansed". They started the violence and brought it on themselves. Payback is a beach.

So, payback is an acceptable beach?

If so, you will have to accept payback from dispossessed, occupied, ravaged, Palestinians, yeah? Or is that payback unacceptable?

In case you have not figured it out yet, the Arabs started the violence, but they keep LOSING. They are the ones that get paid back.

[wabothai]

Won't we call that an attitude adjustment for israel?

[NeverSure]

The Zionists have done so twice already in 1948 and 1967.

LOL. You think that Israel started that. Wow.

Tell me, who are your biggest heroes: Hezbollah or Hamas?

[up-country_sinclair]

The UN has been bought by Arab oil and Arab oil money.

Don't you ever get tired of posting (and re-posting, and re-posting) these silly conspiracy theories?

Apparently not.

[ABCer]

Ulysses G <quote>

"In case you have not figured it out yet, the Arabs started the violence, but they keep LOSING. They are the ones that get paid back."

Correction:

The Palestinian Arabs KEEP STARTING the violence. In many different forms. They are paid handsomely for doing this. They KEEP LOSING again and again. There is no paybacks involved.

Arafats, Abbases, PLO's, HAMASes and Hesbollahs together with their Mullahs and Imams are making money while stupid, ignorant masses are happily joining the virgins.

This is a short rundown of the current humanitarian Arab-Jews clashes in the Palestine region.

Way back Jews, Muslims and Christians lived on this land without slitting each other's throats. Jews and Christians still do so. Even Muslim Arabs who chose to stay in Israel do.

The Arabs from Gaza are not indigenous to Palestine. They do not work. They do not build anything except tunnels and rockets. Israel has no use for them. Arab States that bankroll them have no use for them.

Go, talk about 'assimilation'! Go, talk about two state solution! I would like to see Papa's reaction if they dug under St. Peter's!

[chuckd]

When does the UN have a sit down session with Hamas and the PA/PLO scheduled for

all these realistic options?

I must have missed it.

[Jingthing]

You're not going to change history.

Over the history, Israel did some bad stuff and the Arab and Muslim world did some bad stuff too.

For example, the Palestinians are always talking about Nakba but they never want to mention the "Jewish Nakba" where much of the Arab and Muslim world "cleansed" themselves of their Jews and stole their land and property.

What concerns me about the tone of the OP is that it sounds like the UN, as usual, is only focused on seeing Israel as the demon here and is ignoring the issues that keep Israel from wanting to make compromises.

Such things as Hamas genocidal charter, general overwhelmingly popular demand for right of return of Arabs into Israel which would mean the end of Israel, Hamas disarming, Abbas encouraging terrorists as well.

International pressure is needed on BOTH sides ... takes two to tango.

Again ... you're not going to change history.

The question is where do you go from NOW.

Realistic a great word to consider in this context.

Focusing ONLY on Israel is pretty much the opposite of realistic ... so this is another UN effort definitely doomed to FAIL.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

When does the UN have a sit down session with Hamas and the PA/PLO scheduled for

all these realistic options?

I must have missed it.

It's the "United Nations":. When the US stops blocking statehood for Palestine, the UN may have someone to talk to.

[chuckd]

More deflection.

[Seastallion]

You're not going to change history.

Over the history, Israel did some bad stuff and the Arab and Muslim world did some bad stuff too.

For example, the Palestinians are always talking about Nakba but they never want to mention the "Jewish Nakba" where much of the Arab and Muslim world "cleansed" themselves of their Jews and stole their land and property.

What concerns me about the tone of the OP is that it sounds like the UN, as usual, is only focused on seeing Israel as the demon here and is ignoring the issues that keep Israel from wanting to make compromises.

Such things as Hamas genocidal charter, general overwhelmingly popular demand for right of return of Arabs into Israel which would mean the end of Israel, Hamas disarming, Abbas encouraging terrorists as well.

International pressure is needed on BOTH sides ... takes two to tango.

Again ... you're not going to change history.

The question is where do you go from NOW.

Realistic a great word to consider in this context.

Focusing ONLY on Israel is pretty much the opposite of realistic ... so this is another UN effort definitely doomed to FAIL.

Hamas' so-called "genocidal charter" has long ago been abandoned. Stop with that. Has Likud's Zionist "from the river to the sea" mandate been abandoned? Stop with it...it's tiresome and against forum rules to post knowingly deceitful information.

Right of return. Your argument against it is that it would mean the end of Israel. It may put a kink in Israel as a Jewish state, but Israel would remain. However, that is not a valid argument. It's the same as saying I evicted all these people, I installed my family in their ex-houses, now if you force me to give those houses back, my family will suffer. Hardly a good argument to stop refugees returning to their homes.

Ok, so right of return should be a right....but it's a right that puts hardship on the Jewish state....so, how about acknowledging the right, saying it's too hard, and here's some equitable compensation for us denying the right? That would be a huge start towards peace.

International pressure CAN go on both sides....once Palestinian statehood is confirmed! Until then, the international community only has ONE state to put pressure on. It's a no-brainer and totally realistic.

[Chicog]

Israel will just do what it normally does: If forced to, make promises it never intends to keep; throw obstacles in the way at every opportunity and then when it all goes tits up blame it on Palestinian intransigence.

[Thorgal]

Do you have any credible source that the Arabs are corrupted ?

You may have a future as an amateur comedian.

It is not exact;y a secret that Israel was not invited to participate in any UN military interventions, because Arab countries would refuse to participate.

Can you provide a link to the question of Arabic corruption in the UN and the participation of Israel for peacekeeping in the UN ?

Can you provide any proof/link that the Arabs in UN were opposed to any Israeli military contribution to the UN peacekeeping forces?

Edited May 20, 2015 by Thorgal

[Seastallion]

The very first step in talks should be for Israel to openly declare what borders it wants to maintain in perpetuity.

Do that, and everyone will know where Israel stands.

When everyone knows where Israel stands, negotiations can commence.