Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[John K]

Lets talk numbers here. Most of the posts see this as a negative, however I prefer to look for the positive.

First I can see teachers demanding 50,000 ThB from a public school and getting it. Simply because they have a mandate. Estimating about 10,000 teacher increasing their pay between 15000 and 25000 per month that comes to 200,000,000 (two hundred million) based on 20000. Multiply that time an eleven month typical contact 2,200,000,000 (two billion two hundred million) ThB per year alone for teachers. Factor in all the other little things and it is not far fetched to see this will cost Thailand between 10 and 20 Billion ThB per year, and I think that is low estimate. This is simple supply and demand. After all look at the name at the bottom of post #1, it says Forbes and I doubt they would even write about it if it had nothing to do with money.

The Thais are setting up a situation that will cost them more money than they care to spend. Once it starts eating a hole in there wallet at that rate they will quickly make some adjustments. Again all the trademarks of a not to well thought out plan. Don’t forget Thailand is broke, Thaksin spent all the money of future budgets already to make a bubble economy.

On the other hand if people really wanted to stay and work around the system with multiple documents all they would need is 3 passports. Use one for 90 days, then the next and so on and by the time you get back to the first you would have been out of the country for about 180 days satisfying the new restrictions. That is a bit risky viewing the prince dies in jail thread.

There are a couple of unanswered questions I have. First is this a new law? If it is, don’t they need a real live and breathing parliament to vote on it? Find the source and you will know if this is political or other. Can anyone answer that?

Personally this does not effect me but I am very curious to see if Thaksin is behind this. Sorry if the answer was already posted, I did not have time to read all the posts.

Edited September 11, 2006 by John K

[BlissfullyIgnorant]

The way I see it, the only people who will be truly effected by this change in policy are those who are less than 50 years of age and NOT legally married to a Thai, and NOT legally working for a Thai company.

Thai visas are really no at all difficult to get, and they're by no means expensive either.

Here's the simple breakdown of what you can do, without having to commute back to your home country:

Married to a Thai: Get a Non-Immigrant family support visa. Requires 40K Baht/Month income OR 400K in a Thai bank.

Working for a Thai company: Get a Non-Immigrant business visa. Your company should pay and organise the lot. Requires that the company put up 2M Baht registered captial for (each of) you, and pays you the minimum monthly salary for your nationaility/profession (20K - 60K/Month).

50 years or older: Get a Non-Immigrant retirement visa. Requires 65K Baht/Month income OR 800K in a Thai bank.

Less than 50 + not married + not working: Travel to Penang or Vientiane every 90 days and get a 60 tourist visa. After 60 days go to your local immigration office and extend it for a further 30 days.

Not that difficult really.

[markokang]

Or more acurately "Farang Bum go home!". Like others have said, if your here legitimately as I have been for the last 6 years then there is no problem. Personally glad to see all the bums from around the world get out of Thailand, generally giving farang a bad name with drink/drugs and illegal activities (and these Kaosan-ite bums think that the old fat Germans in Pattaya give farang a bad name!? lol) all as bad as each other! Thailand is just a place for them to do all the bad things they would never do back home. Sure! Go to Cambodia, you won't be missed here! There is absolutably nothing wrong with the new law, its still so much easier to stay here than for Thais to enter any of our countries! Perfectly reasonable and legit! There is no problem except for those people who are just 'hanging around' this country! With the recent spate of paedophiles and foreign mafia-types, drug trafficking etc, its hardly suprising they are cracking down. If this was back in the US or UK they would be putting up total border blocks for foreigners!

The message is clear

FARANG GO HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[astral]

Is it 3 back to back visas and out for 90 days no mater how long you have stayed for on the visas. Example 1st one lets say 2 weeks then the next 3 weeks and the last the full 30 days. This is not staying in thailand for 90 days but it is 3 back to back visas

I don't see that as a problem.

It is the 30+30+30 with no breaks that they are targeting.

However we will have to see once it starts.

[tominchaam]

Do not panic or overreact!

Over the years I have seen a lot of new “regulations” being presented. I have noticed that quite a few of them never come into effect as the Thais are very good at opening up new “Emergency Exits”.

Even if there is a reason to worry – give this time and it might sort itself out without making any real impact to the majority of those affected.

[VanZam]

The way I see it, the only people who will be truly effected by this change in policy are those who are less than 50 years of age and NOT legally married to a Thai, and NOT legally working for a Thai company.

Thai visas are really no at all difficult to get, and they're by no means expensive either.

Here's the simple breakdown of what you can do, without having to commute back to your home country:

Married to a Thai: Get a Non-Immigrant family support visa. Requires 40K Baht/Month income OR 400K in a Thai bank.

Working for a Thai company: Get a Non-Immigrant business visa. Your company should pay and organise the lot. Requires that the company put up 2M Baht registered captial for (each of) you, and pays you the minimum monthly salary for your nationaility/profession (20K - 60K/Month).

50 years or older: Get a Non-Immigrant retirement visa. Requires 65K Baht/Month income OR 800K in a Thai bank.

Less than 50 + not married + not working: Travel to Penang or Vientiane every 90 days and get a 60 tourist visa. After 60 days go to your local immigration office and extend it for a further 30 days.

Not that difficult really.

Yes as long as you are married/working here/retired.

As I mentioned in a previous post, look beyond the scope of your own existance, not everyone is in the same boat. Look at the big picture.. the amount of money the long term tourists bring to Thailand.

How many will go through the extra expense of getting tourist visas in lao or malaysia, its not even clear wheather you will still be able to gain a tourist visa one after the other, doing this would be exactly the same as border runs, which as you may have noticed, is what they are trying to prevent.

Edited September 11, 2006 by VanZam

[astral]

?????

i have paid for a ticket that has a return date lasting 4 months not 15 days what happens on my arrival.

i have a son aussie passport and a thai wife what is the longest visa we can get.

Get a 3 month Non O visa based on visiting the Thai wife's family.

This is normally extendable inside Thailand for at least one month.

[marshbags]

Now as funny as I find this for all the visa runners who have now got to actually get the correct legal visa or sod off. I mean what would happen in the UK if people were doing it!

There is a large problem from my view as from 2 weeks time me and my Lao wife are moving to Laos to build a house (I will have a full 1 year immgration visa in Laos) - however we will be frequently needing to nip over to Nong Khai for provisions etc. what is supposed to happen then? We'll only be over the border then back in the same day - this a regular thing for Lao and Thai people doing trade in Laos/Thailand.

So does this change mean it can't happen - as it'll completely ###### up many things there. I would imagine there is work around for this for people entering from the country of there legal abode? As it just won't make sense otherwise.

Oh by the way all you visa runners don't come Laos . . . Thanks.

You can't extend your Visa for 90 days anyway so there is no point!

Edit: Why do people think people who are truly holidaying in Thailand will care that the holiday visa rules have been tightened? The only people who are totally against it are people who are living and working in Thailand illegally by doing visa runs.

Other people who travel frequently in and out of thailand for business and trade - are the ones with genuine concerns over it.

All this has come about because of abuse and mis use of the tourist visa that has been going on for years.

If you are coming in for business ect. you need to get a legally recognised visa to do so.

You cannot come in as a tourist and do business ect.

I used to get a non imm. B multi entry visa soley for the purpose of this and trade ect.

As for casual workers, they in my humble opinion are the main architecs of this clamp down along with the people who have spent ex amount of time hopping over the border for what ever reasons.

Now they have clamped down so o.k. you,ve had a good run and it,s now finnished, be grateful, for what you,ve got away with, calm down and be reasonable

No matter what your take is on this the fact is Immigration laws are there to be obeyed and it is not just relevant to Thailand.

A tourist as i see it will not be effected by this change.

If you want to stay for a longer period other than what is laid down then apply for the relevant visa as the majority of sensible visitors do.

It really is no big deal and will hopefully make it better in the long term.

Who knows, the powers in charge after the next election may change and be more sympathetic to the ones who need it most, don,t have much flexability, in lots of cases and have a personal interest in the well being of Thailand through their ties.

Families and Dependants.

Stay coollllllllllllllllllllllllll, read up on the Imm. laws and find an alternative visa that suits your genuine needs.

If you cannot find it then T.Visa have very good, competent experts on the visa section who are more than willing to assist all of us.

marshbags

P.S.

They,ve possibly introduced this change to come into effect before the new airport opens, yes i know tourists arrive via other methods but the majority will fly in.

In my humble opinion.

[Acharn]

I'm married to a Thai but so what. It doesn't get you much does it. I mean you can get a 90 visa from the get go extended for one month thereafter but then what?

??? Well, if you get a Non-Immigrant "O" visa, you can extend it for 9 months, not 30 days, and then in following years extend it a year at a time. hel_l, that's what I did for my first 14 years here. Then my wife died and I had to switch to a retirement visa, but that's another story. The only thing is, you have to be able to show a regular income -- I think the requirement now is 25,000 baht a month -- or a rather large amount deposited in a Thai bank. You must have some kind of income, so the only question is whether the source is acceptable to the Thais or not.

[stevehaigh]

I'm married to a Thai but so what. It doesn't get you much does it. I mean you can get a 90 visa from the get go extended for one month thereafter but then what?

you can get a 1 year multi entry non imm O (border run every 3 months) or if you have 400k in the bank, no border runs at all. souns like a good deal to me.

[shotover]

The published guidelines in the media reports do not seem to make the following situations clear, at least to me:

1. Will visitors from these 41 countries be permitted to enter Thailand more than 3 times annually on valid tourist visas obtained from Thai embassies/consulates outside Thailand?

2. Will visitors based in nearby countries (Singapore, HK, KL, etc>) who make frequent, short visits to Thailand be permitted to enter Thailand without visas for, say 7 days each month (84 total days stayed in a 12 month period)?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Immigration confirms the end of border runs from October 1, 2006

Thailand tightens visa rules for tourists to cut illegal workers

BANGKOK: -- Thailand will tighten entry regulations for tourists in a bid to crack down on illegal foreign workers, the Immigration Bureau said.... must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days[/b] before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said.

--forbes.com 2006-09-10

Does anyone have info on whether this will affect persons who entered before October 1?

[astral]

My big question is how this will affect visas which have already been granted.

I arrived from the UK with a quadruple 60-day-entry 6-month tourist visa.

I'm currently in my 3rd entry, enjoying an extended break in my favourite country.

When my 3rd 60-day entry expires at the beginning of October, and I hop to Cambodia to begin my 4th and final entry, will I be allowed back into Thailand?

Since I haven't used any 30-day visa exemption on arrival this visit, will my 90-day limit begin when my 4th 60-day entry expires? Or am I not going to get my 4th entry? Should I take all my posessions in a suitcase to my next border run?

Not enough information!

This is not about Tourist visa holders.

You should have no problem.

[keekwai]

Chicken Little ... "The Sky is Falling !, The Sky is Falling !"

[retiredusn]

The Land Of Smiles

Cambodia anybody??? Looks good to me...?

Just don't walk off the road or you may discover Cambodia's meaning of boom.

I have lived in Thailand for 3 years and after checking the law's prior to coming I arrived with a retirement visa and have had no problems at all ....If such as you start yelling about leaving "go,go,go" just obey the law and you also will have NO PROBLEMS

[macb]

Well its just a case of now playing by the rules instead of making up your own and abusing the Hospitality of this wonderful country.

Everycountry has rules, at the end of the day its the foriegners that have messed it up, a case of one bad apple in the barrel.

macb

[BlissfullyIgnorant]

Having been married for five years, and having been on the Non Immigrant O, I have preferred to go in and out every three months, rather than leave 400k in a Thai Bank with no interest and a constantly depreciating currency. There will no doubt be those, who don't have the 400k. It would be a big scandal internationally if they start seperating families. Then again they are so dense, that I wouldnt' be surprised it they tried, only the loss of face seems to instill any semblance of common sense, to officialdom!

You most certainly can get interest on your 400K as a non-resident:

http://www.scb.co.th/html/th/interest/depo...deposit-eng.pdf

You can get 4% PA on your 400K if you put it into a 12 month fixed term account, or 3.75% if you only want to lock it up for 6 months at a time. That's with Siam Commercial Bank of course, but I'm sure the others will be about the same.

As for the assertion that the THB is a constantly depreciating currency, that's actually not true - it's your "home" currency that's actually depreciating. If you're getting less Baht for your dollar/quid/rupee/whatever over time, then it makes even more sense to buy your Baht now, rather than wait!

[h90]

It seems Bangkok post removed that article.....

Immigration confirms the end of border runs from October 1, 2006

Thailand tightens visa rules for tourists to cut illegal workers

BANGKOK: -- Thailand will tighten entry regulations for tourists in a bid to crack down on illegal foreign workers, the Immigration Bureau said.

The move, which takes effect October 1, would affect tourists from 41 countries including Australia, the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the US, said Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, the head of the bureau.

Currently, tourists from 41 countries can enter Thailand without visas and stay in the kingdom for up to 30 days.

They can extend their stay by checking out of the country, mainly by crossing the borders of neighboring Cambodia and Laos, and returning with new entry stamps.

'Under the current rules, people from those countries can stay in Thailand as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year,' another bureau official said.

The bureau had learned that a growing number of foreigners from the 41 countries worked illegally in Thailand, Suwat said, adding many were employed in bars and restaurants in the popular seaside resort of Pattaya, east of Bangkok.

'Tourists are taking advantage of the visa exemption law. Instead of sightseeing, they are doing business here,' Suwat said.

From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days.

Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said.

--forbes.com 2006-09-10

[Acharn]

<snip>

There are a couple of unanswered questions I have. First is this a new law? If it is, don’t they need a real live and breathing parliament to vote on it? Find the source and you will know if this is political or other. Can anyone answer that?

Personally this does not effect me but I am very curious to see if Thaksin is behind this. Sorry if the answer was already posted, I did not have time to read all the posts.

Bear in mind that a large part of what the Thais call "law" is actually either a resolution passed by the cabinet or a ministerial regulation. Remember the "law" that said a Thai married to a farang could not register land in her/his own name (enforced only against women)? That was a ministerial regulation, not a statute enacted by parilament. When they realized in was against their best interests they didn't have to go to parliament to change it. Probably a good thing -- parliament would probably have refused to change it and even might have made it *more* restrictive. There's a lot of xenophobia in the ruling class.

[Nam Kao]

Anybody else start kissing the Thai wifes ### today?

Mine is suspicious of something

[chinadarling]

It would seem to me that the best solution is to make a one year business visa readily available.

China and Vietnam both have this already. It is effectively a Tax on your staying here.

China one year F can be bought in HK for 1100hkd. Vietnam is $50us for 6 months.

Time for Thailand to modernize. I dont mind them making checks adn balances as long as there is a way to deal with it. We shall see what really happens and if this affects their economy.

You can alway lobby your own gov to push for better deal between Thailand and your own country.

[skippybangkok]

Maybe someone should re-calculate cost of Visa runs v.s. PR's ?

[BlissfullyIgnorant]

Yes as long as you are married/working here/retired.

As I mentioned in a previous post, look beyond the scope of your own existance, not everyone is in the same boat. Look at the big picture.. the amount of money the long term tourists bring to Thailand.

How many will go through the extra expense of getting tourist visas in lao or malaysia, its not even clear wheather you will still be able to gain a tourist visa one after the other, doing this would be exactly the same as border runs, which as you may have noticed, is what they are trying to prevent.

I did "look beyond the scope of my own existance", and I seriously doubt there will ever be a problem getting back to back, proper VISA's.

What Thai immigration are trying to achieve is very clear, and is certainly not new. First they started actually enforcing the 10K cash requirement, then they started warning people with 6+ months of back-back entry stamps, now they're simply going to start enforcing it with a new law that allows them to. The message is patently obvious - get the right visa.

I'm assuming you're in the <50, not married, not working boat. So was I for more than 4 years here, and even then (before perpetual visa runs was an issue) I still did the 60 day TR + extension routine as the cost was not that much different to monthly runs, your passport expires before it's full, and you're quite simply doing things the right way IMHO.

[Vespa]

This new rule seems totally in compliance with the new house ownership via

quasi Thai company rule.

[freefunk]

Would that maybe mean that it would become easier to obtain work permits for jobs such as scuba instructors asy I can not see too many Thai people guiding foreigners on underwater tours.... Does any one know how long you have to hold a consecutive workpermit to apply for residency?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Would that maybe mean that it would become easier to obtain work permits for jobs such as scuba instructors asy I can not see too many Thai people guiding foreigners on underwater tours.... Does any one know how long you have to hold a consecutive workpermit to apply for residency?

At least 3 consecutive Non-Imm one year extensions.

[John K]

The Land Of Smiles

Cambodia anybody??? Looks good to me...?

Just don't walk off the road or you may discover Cambodia's meaning of boom.

I have lived in Thailand for 3 years and after checking the law's prior to coming I arrived with a retirement visa and have had no problems at all ....If such as you start yelling about leaving "go,go,go" just obey the law and you also will have NO PROBLEMS

You are forgetting Thai law #1 ‘Thai laws only apply to non Thais.’

[BlissfullyIgnorant]

Would that maybe mean that it would become easier to obtain work permits for jobs such as scuba instructors asy I can not see too many Thai people guiding foreigners on underwater tours.... Does any one know how long you have to hold a consecutive workpermit to apply for residency?

You can apply for permanent residency after 3 non-interrupted years on the 1 year Non-Immigrant extension scheme. Costs 200K if you're married to a Thai, 400K if not. There's also a yearly quota for each country, and you'll need to convince them you can speak, read, and write Thai at a year 6 level, and contribute to Thai society (5000B/year in reciepted donations is a good start). They usually accept applications in December of each year. Nothing to do with a work permit per se, but if you've been working legally and paying taxes for 3+ years it should help.

[brahmburgers]

.....The plain fact is that Thailand is vulnerable to a flood of 'undesirables'.

When there's in influx of people to anywhere, there's bound to be some 'undesireables' - and granted, those types should be dealt with as well as the populace and authorities can.

I meet many farang who come up to northernmost Thailand - most of whom are looking to retire here with their Thai wives. About half are not yet 50, so can't qualify for type O visa. Yet nearly all the solo guys and couples (and some single farang women too!) I meet are fine folks who are willing to invest a prince's ransom in developing a home (in the wife's name, of course) and in every case, they contribute handsomely to the local economy - whether indirectly (purchasing skads of products & services) or directly (scholarships, grants, etc for needy causes).

Putting a crimp on visa availability might filter out some of the "undesirables" (though doubtful, because they're often a wiley bunch), but it will certainly dissuade many, many good people who simply want to relax in Thailand with their Thai wives and spend boatloads of their ATM money. Rather than making Thailand more difficult, the Immigration Dept. should be making Thailand more accessible. Xenophobia is not pretty.

[VanZam]

Yes as long as you are married/working here/retired.

As I mentioned in a previous post, look beyond the scope of your own existance, not everyone is in the same boat. Look at the big picture.. the amount of money the long term tourists bring to Thailand.

How many will go through the extra expense of getting tourist visas in lao or malaysia, its not even clear wheather you will still be able to gain a tourist visa one after the other, doing this would be exactly the same as border runs, which as you may have noticed, is what they are trying to prevent.

I did "look beyond the scope of my own existance", and I seriously doubt there will ever be a problem getting back to back, proper VISA's.

What Thai immigration are trying to achieve is very clear, and is certainly not new. First they started actually enforcing the 10K cash requirement, then they started warning people with 6+ months of back-back entry stamps, now they're simply going to start enforcing it with a new law that allows them to. The message is patently obvious - get the right visa.

I'm assuming you're in the <50, not married, not working boat. So was I for more than 4 years here, and even then (before perpetual visa runs was an issue) I still did the 60 day TR + extension routine as the cost was not that much different to monthly runs, your passport expires before it's full, and you're quite simply doing things the right way IMHO.

I do agree totally, but I think time will tell if the "real" tourist visas back to back will be accepted, as doing so would just open up another easy option for illegal workers, costing about the same as border runs.

I'm not in the same boat(Thai passport/NZ passport), but do take a great interest in this topic as even though there may be ways around this new development, the amount of people affected is huge, and little thought has been put into the amount of money this will cost the country long term.

I would have thought that if the real reason was to crack down on illegal workers, they would just apply greater restrictions to schools, and enforce them.

As many have pointed out, there seems to be a bigger plan at work, judging by Toxins moves over the last couple of years. Although this may not be a shock to many.. closing off such a massive part of the tourisim market without first adding other options just makes the whole thing sound very ill prepared and spur of the moment.

Edited September 11, 2006 by VanZam