Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[LivinLOS]

Look any new law or rule will have to be implemented.

The rules as they are described have no way of being implemented at airline check in desks around the world.. As such the chance of the rules being implemented as described are slim to none.

The process of checking entire passports for all entries and tallying to check 90 days incountry etc is just not feasable.

If they really do mean they will only issue 3 stamps no matter how many days in country the only people they really hurt are real tourists who pop over for bangkok weekenders or visit regularly.. Its possible to rack up 3 entries in a week or two if you are doing business around asia.

Contract workers who use Thailand as a base are the ideal people Thailand wants.. Denying offshore guys who make 15 - 20k USD in a month and often spend that much in thier off month.. Is Thailand really willing to deny themselves those working, paying, people.

Lets see the implementation..

[booma]

<deleted> crazy, don't they know there own country! In five seconds I can think of many negative effects this will have. Many holes will be left!

B

[Soju]

Is it 3 back to back visas and out for 90 days no mater how long you have stayed for on the visas. Example 1st one lets say 2 weeks then the next 3 weeks and the last the full 30 days. This is not staying in thailand for 90 days but it is 3 back to back visas

I don't see that as a problem.

It is the 30+30+30 with no breaks that they are targeting.

However we will have to see once it starts.

I'm in the same position as a few others in that I go to visit Thailand very frequently, at least once or twice a month to see my wife. I work outside of Thailand but spend on average 7 days or more a month in Thailand. Will I be affected by this new rule? You say they are targeting the back-to-back entries without breaks, but obviously there is at least a small break in there for even the visa runners, even if it's only a few hours or a day, or maybe a few days. Where's the cutoff? If it's a person making a judgement call, then it should be obvious to them that I'm not in the same boat as the visa runners. But if it's just a computer program spitting out that I have 3 entries in the past 90 days, then I'm in big trouble.

As you say, we'll have to wait and see once it starts. But if they prohibit me from entering it'll mean a major change to the lives of me and my wife.

[paulmw]

George wrote a lot of true stuff here

Well, what the hel_l! LOS makes it very easy to stay, just stick to the rules.

I had a company here and my proper work permit, and I was paying taxes. Now I am retired, and I got my proper retirement visa. Where is the problem? If anyone wants to stay here, (s)he should read the rules and decide if (s)he can accept it. If not, (s)he should stay where (s)he is. You always have the option to spend your holidays here.

Thank you for your attention,

a happy guy from Phuket, who got no visa problems.

Well lucky you.

{If anyone wants to stay here, (s)he should read the rules and decide if (s)he can accept it. If not, (s)he should stay where (s)he is. }

Perhaps will someone tell MOE, (Ministry of Education) been waiting 3 months now to get my papers completed???

[booma]

Look any new law or rule will have to be implemented.

The rules as they are described have no way of being implemented at airline check in desks around the world.. As such the chance of the rules being implemented as described are slim to none.

The process of checking entire passports for all entries and tallying to check 90 days incountry etc is just not feasable.

If they really do mean they will only issue 3 stamps no matter how many days in country the only people they really hurt are real tourists who pop over for bangkok weekenders or visit regularly.. Its possible to rack up 3 entries in a week or two if you are doing business around asia.

Contract workers who use Thailand as a base are the ideal people Thailand wants.. Denying offshore guys who make 15 - 20k USD in a month and often spend that much in thier off month.. Is Thailand really willing to deny themselves those working, paying, people.

Lets see the implementation..

This is one of the angles I briefly looked at, these changes are supposed to stop illegal workers, maybe they should make proper checks of bars, schools etc. rather than castrating one of there own major industries ie tourism!!!!!

[Trevor]

With a nod and a wink this latest 'Three strikes and you're out' ruling may be largely ignored by immigration staff. Just like the requirements to show 10,000 Baht and an air ticket out. Thailand has a well-documented history of enacting rules and regulations which are not enforced.

If Thailand went down the Cambodian / Vietnam route of buying stay time with hard cash, what would happen? Increase in visitors, less visa hassle for them, but potentially more foreign criminals and undesirables admitted.

The current system works reasonably well so long as you can stomach the usual third-world beaurocracy. The latest restrictions on visa-free entry are just sabre-rattlings which are likely to fall by the wayside.

Me, I'll stick to my multiple non-B, renewed annually. No worries.

[albertvb]

Oh Great. I am planning to move to Thailand Oct. 1st. I had planned on using a tourist visa, as I have friends in Cambodia and will be spending some days there each month anyway. Now I must sort out the O visa, retirment visa. should I get the visa here in the US? Can I sort this out by Oct 1st? Should I come on the tourist visa, and attempt to sort it when I get there? Do I risk spending 90 days in Cambodia?

If I get a retirment visa here, can I renew it in Thailand?

More headaches. TIT

Ray

You have to come in Thailand with a non immigrant visa then you go to the immigration to ask for a retirement visa and show that you have 800.000 bath on a thai account bank and show that the money come from your country which have to be bank to bank you can use that account but you need to show next year that you still have 800.000 bath on that account and you need to show your bankbook + a atest from that bank an a medical atest.

Best regards

Albert

[macb]

Its not just about illegal workers though, recently two Extraditions have taken place of suspected

murderers that were hiding in Thailand.

The last one being arrested as he returned from a Visa Run down south and arrested on suspicion of murdering his wife and kid in UK.

Cannot blame immigration for tightening the rules

macb

[Scott]

Thailand is long overdue for an immigration overhaul. They have been flying by the seat of their pants for way too long and it is causing them a lot of problems. Unfortunately, the overhaul means that they need to tighten up on some things and loosen up on others.

It means thinking about what you want and planning accordingly. Mostly, it means talking to affected people and businesses--such as schools, private tuition schools, businesses such as scuba shops etc. Then they need to know what can Thai people do, where do they need help and who are the ones that should be eliminated.

[redbean]

George wrote a lot of true stuff here

Well, what the hel_l! LOS makes it very easy to stay, just stick to the rules.

I had a company here and my proper work permit, and I was paying taxes. Now I am retired, and I got my proper retirement visa. Where is the problem? If anyone wants to stay here, (s)he should read the rules and decide if (s)he can accept it. If not, (s)he should stay where (s)he is. You always have the option to spend your holidays here.

Thank you for your attention,

a happy guy from Phuket, who got no visa problems.

Glad YOU are all right but most of us are STILL in our prime and don't have it as easy. All the blue hairs are laughin it up, eh?

[LivinLOS]

Is it 3 back to back visas and out for 90 days no mater how long you have stayed for on the visas. Example 1st one lets say 2 weeks then the next 3 weeks and the last the full 30 days. This is not staying in thailand for 90 days but it is 3 back to back visas

I don't see that as a problem.

It is the 30+30+30 with no breaks that they are targeting.

However we will have to see once it starts.

I'm in the same position as a few others in that I go to visit Thailand very frequently, at least once or twice a month to see my wife. I work outside of Thailand but spend on average 7 days or more a month in Thailand. Will I be affected by this new rule? You say they are targeting the back-to-back entries without breaks, but obviously there is at least a small break in there for even the visa runners, even if it's only a few hours or a day, or maybe a few days. Where's the cutoff? If it's a person making a judgement call, then it should be obvious to them that I'm not in the same boat as the visa runners. But if it's just a computer program spitting out that I have 3 entries in the past 90 days, then I'm in big trouble.

As you say, we'll have to wait and see once it starts. But if they prohibit me from entering it'll mean a major change to the lives of me and my wife.

Thats the thing.. Real rules cannot be left up to the discresion of the mood of the guy in immigration..

So what defines back to back.. What defines fully using a stamp.. What defines a break between stamps..

Poorly written.. Poorly thought out.. Tough to execute.

My little brother is in a situation much like you.. Has a TGF and lives in Indo.. They are usually back here every months or two.. Sometimes then touring from here as a base.. I would guess that he has had 3 stamps in every 90 days for the last year but is a genuine tourist with no home of his own here.. Will he now not be welcome as a real tourist ??

[John K]

Well lucky you.

{If anyone wants to stay here, (s)he should read the rules and decide if (s)he can accept it. If not, (s)he should stay where (s)he is. }

Perhaps will someone tell MOE, (Ministry of Education) been waiting 3 months now to get my papers completed???

It starts already.....

A great visual forming here, Thai school officials either trying to convince teachers it is OK to stay past the end of their visa, or classrooms with no teachers.

I suspect this new law/rule/wish will have a shelf life of about 40 or 50 days then back to the way it was. So effectively 90 days past October 1 is when the real problem starts. Perhaps during the 90 days of Thai schools being in panic the Thai officials will sense what is coming and effectively decide good intention, bad idea.

[dsfbrit]

I'm married to a Thai but so what. It doesn't get you much does it. I mean you can get a 90 visa from the get go extended for one month thereafter but then what?

If you were married at an Amphur in Thailand or legally agroad (ie: not just a trip to the local wat) and have 400 thousand baht to put in a bank account, you can get a 1 year extension.

Need to fill in some forms and prove you live here etc and maybe buy a 'gift' for the immigration

officer - usually a bottle of whisky or packets of tea - less than 1000 baht anyway!

good luck

[Meerkat]

Thailand Elite anyone?

[LOS NICK]

well if these are the new rules maybe these thai embassies and consulates in other asian countries will loosen up and give us long term tourists the proper visa.

many people only qualify for a tourist visa.

we are young,well off,and with a thousand baht note in our pockets are very handsome.

in recent times applying for tourist visas in laos,phenm phen, and manila has been anything but friendly.

maybe you can get one tourist visa out of these places.

I have no problem with getting a proper visa but it seems they are the ones with the problem.

what is the big deal with a thai embassy outside of thailand giving unlimited tourist visas.

If you want me to be on a tourist visa then have them easy to get.

Thank the lord for penang..

[wolfmanjack]

Is it 3 back to back visas and out for 90 days no mater how long you have stayed for on the visas. Example 1st one lets say 2 weeks then the next 3 weeks and the last the full 30 days. This is not staying in thailand for 90 days but it is 3 back to back visas

Depends on your definition of back to back. I would say that a 15 day break between the visas would not be back to back but only a one day would.

[BlissfullyIgnorant]

I'm not in the same boat(Thai passport/NZ passport), but do take a great interest in this topic as even though there may be ways around this new development, the amount of people affected is huge, and little thought has been put into the amount of money this will cost the country long term.

I would have thought that if the real reason wa to crack donw on illegal workers, they would just apply greater restrictions to schools, and enforce them.

As many have pointed out, there seems to be a bigger plan at work, judging by Toxins moves over the last couple of years. Although this may not be a shock to many.. closing off such a massive part of the tourisim market without first adding other options just makes the whole thing sound very ill prepared and spur of the moment.

Well, a Thai PP certainly makes life here easier I'm sure.

The big question is: Are they actually trying to exlcude people from Thailand with this law?

Given the recent "crackdown" (I hate that term BTW, gets abused on TV all the time) on Burmese workers in CM in the form of an amnesty for getting legal and massively increased fines for those hiring illegals, and now this, it would seem fairly obvious that Thailand is getting more and more committed to getting foreign workers legal - not clearing them out. Why offer an amnesty of you all you want is for them to leave? This of course makes sense, because legal workers pay taxes, and it's those taxes that are going to help LOS realise thier development goals.

The fact is that someone who stays in Thailand for months or years on back to back entry stamps can rarely classify themselves as a tourist anymore - it's clearly their domicile.

The people who are going to be effected the most are those who work here illegally - Chinese and Indians pop into mind immediately, not to mention the usually under-paid (and more often than not under-qualified as well) westerner teaching English. I'd say that most of these are going to have a real tough time simply because they can't get paid the required minimum salary as the market can't afford it, and in many cases their employer simply won't be able to front up the 2M registered captial for them.

The other lot that will be effected are those <50, not married and not working for a Thai company. I was in this boat for many years, while living here but working for a foreign company without a Thai presence. The only options for these poeple is to get married, or invest 3M+ Baht they don't have, or if they do have it, into a market that they just don't/can't understand. I feel for them, because it could have been me had I not finally met someone I wanted to marry.

Those postulating that this new law just won't work are probably very right. The way I see it, in order to make this truly work, Thailand will need to do the following:

1. Decrease the salary requirement for teachers to 20K/Month - the same as journos.

2. Introduce a visa for singles under 50 that works.

Without at least these changes, this new law is probably going to be a disaster.

[phuketrichard]

Guys;

You dont' need to fil out the departure card UNTIL you depart but even on a non "o" or "B" Which i am also on, you need to keep the card in your passport. It has your tm number which is checked if you ever go to a hotel, ( even if you live here I can't believe you never travel anywhere but ur home)

Someday u will leave and u will have to fil out the departure card. PLUS every 90 days you still need to report to immmigration and if they dont see the card they waill ask you about it.

Guys ur all making abig deal out of this.

It will ONLY affect those living in thailand that make monthly trips to Burma (if from Phuket)

Malaysia,(if from Samui) Cambodia, ( if in Bangkok and all those guys up north that cross to Laos every month

ALWAYS VOA are at the discretion of the immigration at the border. If they see you are here every month for ony 2-5 days they will give u the visa no porblem

If they see you came in stayed 30 days, left for an hour, came back for 30 days, left for an hour, came back. Well they wont let ya back!!

What so hard to understand???

If your here, and working , get a visa!

VISA ON ARRIVAL

- According to the Interior Ministerial Announcements, passport holders from 20 countries may apply for visas at the immigration checkpoints for the purpose of tourism for the period of not exceeding 15 days.

- The applicant must possess means of living expenses at the amount of 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family accordingly.

- The applicant must present full paid ticket which is usable within 15 days since the date of entry

- Visa on arrival is provided at 23 designated international checkpoints and applicants should submit the application form duly filled out and to which his/her recent photograph (2 ½ inches) is attached. The application fee is 1,000 Baht.

- Visitors who enter the Kingdom with Visa on Arrival generally cannot file an application for extension of stay except in special cases such as illness which prevents them from travelling, etc. They can submit an application at the Office of Immigration Bureau , Immigration Division 1, Soi Suan Plu, South Sathorn Road, Bangkok 10120. Tel. 02 287-3127 or 02 287-3101-10 ext. 2264-5 or at website http://www.immigration.go.th

The operative word here is tourism. It makes sense that a "tourist" should not mean a tourist in perpetuity. Agree? For people like me who are here not on a tourist visa but on a non-immigrant O or B visa, this should be a non-event.

I'm curious about one thing. When I arrived, they gave me a departure card. I have no intention of using it, and didn't fill it in. No one say "boo" about my not filling it in, I guess they assume I'm here for the long haul if I come on a non-immigrant O visa. What do the guys who have been doing visa runs for years do? Do they keep a ticket with them all the time, or is it not even asked for?

[bkk_mike]

It'll be against the law to chew gum next! I am offshore working outside of Thailand going home (Thailand) 6th of Oct. I have 3 30 day chops in my passport already. A wife and 3 kids waiting for me to come home. All my documents for applying for a visa are at my home in LOS. This is going to be real convenient. What a load of ****!!! Maybe I'll just pack up the wifey and kids and go back to Falangland. I wish they would have done this in the springtime.

I'm ready to beam you up and out. You have a THAI wife and kids? If that is so, then why didn't you just do the 1 year extension to a proper non-immigrant visa for supporting your wife and kids?

If you are outside the country, get off your lazy ass and visit a Thai Embassy to get the proper visa.

Jesus.

"Lazy Ass" Did you not read the part about WORKING!!! I would and have done several times. Some of us lazy asses are to busy working and and raising our children to run off and get visa's. Especially when you have the option to get a tourist visa. Thanks for your insightfull and helpfull coment though.

Heard of mail? Fedex? No excuse - go visit an embassy or send your passport to one.

Actually - depending on the country - if you're working offshore, you need the passport to travel to the rig. (It's why a lot of people in the oil industry have two passports).

Edited September 11, 2006 by bkk_mike

[rolschu]

Stick to the rules. Why anyone whants to stay in a country without any legal paper work.

By the way. Everyone is talking always only about farangs... the Thai goverment has much bigger problems with illegal Chinese and Indians (according to Bangkok Post then tousends)

[girlx]

okay here is a hypothetical situation:

an american comes to thailand to live. but he has a job in america. he can do the work from his house in thailand, everything works over the internet. the money is deposited in his US account, nothing passes over thailand's borders. this american has a house and family in thailand, and takes nothing from thai society, in fact he is ONLY contributing by spending his US-made money here. he stays on a tourist visa- triple entry from penang. no point in trying to get a non-imm, as he does not have en employer in thailand to write the letter to get the visa. it should be perfectly alright for him to live on a tourist visa.

what happens to this person now? when he has used up his first 90 days of the triple entry visa (60 days + extension), if after Oct. 1, would they make him leave the country for 90 days before he could come back in, or would they just renew for another 90 days (60 days + extension) as usual?

Thanks for any input.

[OldAsiaHand]

With a nod and a wink this latest 'Three strikes and you're out' ruling may be largely ignored by immigration staff. Just like the requirements to show 10,000 Baht and an air ticket out. Thailand has a well-documented history of enacting rules and regulations which are not enforced....

Yes, exactly.

I am always amazed at how any proposed change in local laws and regulations which has an impact on expats brings out ranting jailhouse lawyers to fill thread after thread on TV. They read the story in the Post, analyze every word, and parse every phrase like they were writing a brief for the United States Supreme Court in a corporate tax case.

Doesn't anyone ever learn? Thais are constantly announcing laws and regulations that are never applied to anyone. Worse, they are constantly applying so-called laws and regulations to people that were never annonced. They are going to do to you what they feel like from day to day. The fact that the law says, or doesn't say, something couldn't matter less. They have power, you don't. It's just that simple.

'A government not of men, but of laws,' Jefferson called America. Thailand is exactly the opposite: a government not of laws, but of men. If you can't live with that, you're in the wrong place.

[LivinLOS]

I am surprised no one has mentioned how this situation effects the new airport..

So trying to get this to be a 'hub' for asia.. But if you clear immigration on any of these flights you accrue another stamp.. With all the budgets now I have been to both KL and Sing multiple times in the last 3 months but not dont any more than stay in the airport or get a room for a few hours.

Left hand.. Heres the right hand..

[LivinLOS]

okay here is a hypothetical situation:

an american comes to thailand to live. but he has a job in america. he can do the work from his house in thailand, everything works over the internet. the money is deposited in his US account, nothing passes over thailand's borders. this american has a house and family in thailand, and takes nothing from thai society, in fact he is ONLY contributing by spending his US-made money here. he stays on a tourist visa- triple entry from penang. no point in trying to get a non-imm, as he does not have en employer in thailand to write the letter to get the visa. it should be perfectly alright for him to live on a tourist visa.

what happens to this person now? when he has used up his first 90 days of the triple entry visa (60 days + extension), if after Oct. 1, would they make him leave the country for 90 days before he could come back in, or would they just renew for another 90 days (60 days + extension) as usual?

Thanks for any input.

This woukd appear to have nothing to do with tourist visa's (though getting tourist visa's issued again and again may be a problem later)..

This is to do with people having no real visa and just doing a visa run to get another 30 days.

[BlissfullyIgnorant]

okay here is a hypothetical situation:

an american comes to thailand to live. but he has a job in america. he can do the work from his house in thailand, everything works over the internet. the money is deposited in his US account, nothing passes over thailand's borders. this american has a house and family in thailand, and takes nothing from thai society, in fact he is ONLY contributing by spending his US-made money here. he stays on a tourist visa- triple entry from penang. no point in trying to get a non-imm, as he does not have en employer in thailand to write the letter to get the visa. it should be perfectly alright for him to live on a tourist visa.

what happens to this person now? when he has used up his first 90 days of the triple entry visa (60 days + extension), if after Oct. 1, would they make him leave the country for 90 days before he could come back in, or would they just renew for another 90 days (60 days + extension) as usual?

Thanks for any input.

Sounds familiar

If this American's family is Thai, the simple solution is to get a Non-Immigrant family support visa. If the family is not Thai, then the American can either:

1. Get a retirement visa if 50 years of age or older.

2. Invest 3M+ Baht in LOS and get an investment visa.

3. Get back-to-back TR visa's instead of entry stamps.

4. Overstay and hope they don't get caught

[greg1965]

What about getting an "Elite Card"?

Are they easy to obtain if you have 1 million baht to pay?

Are they good for 5 years or just 1 year?

Do they eliminate the need to do 30 and/or 90 day border runs?

Don't know the answer to these questions, but hoping maybe you do.

[bggg]

okay here is a hypothetical situation:

an american comes to thailand to live. but he has a job in america. he can do the work from his house in thailand, everything works over the internet. the money is deposited in his US account, nothing passes over thailand's borders. this american has a house and family in thailand, and takes nothing from thai society, in fact he is ONLY contributing by spending his US-made money here. he stays on a tourist visa- triple entry from penang. no point in trying to get a non-imm, as he does not have en employer in thailand to write the letter to get the visa. it should be perfectly alright for him to live on a tourist visa.

what happens to this person now? when he has used up his first 90 days of the triple entry visa (60 days + extension), if after Oct. 1, would they make him leave the country for 90 days before he could come back in, or would they just renew for another 90 days (60 days + extension) as usual?

Thanks for any input.

I know quite a few folks like the above. I will look up the requirements for a B class after finishing this forum reading but I don't believe and independant individual can qualify can they? Heres another situation. We are here on a retirement visa however we have 2 grown children that we support here, well 1 has now left. The other is researching, learning, and planning for an export business which we are financially supporting. What alternatives are there for this? Also know a young man who inherited a decent sum of money and has been here on tourist visas for a while. Whay alternative does he have.As others have stated not all back to back visas are done by deadbeat undesirables.

[mouse]

okay here is a hypothetical situation:

an american comes to thailand to live. but he has a job in america. he can do the work from his house in thailand, everything works over the internet. the money is deposited in his US account, nothing passes over thailand's borders. this american has a house and family in thailand, and takes nothing from thai society, in fact he is ONLY contributing by spending his US-made money here. he stays on a tourist visa- triple entry from penang. no point in trying to get a non-imm, as he does not have en employer in thailand to write the letter to get the visa. it should be perfectly alright for him to live on a tourist visa.

what happens to this person now? when he has used up his first 90 days of the triple entry visa (60 days + extension), if after Oct. 1, would they make him leave the country for 90 days before he could come back in, or would they just renew for another 90 days (60 days + extension) as usual?

Thanks for any input.

You go to Sunbelt Asia or another legal firm and form a company under the Amity Treat at a rough first year cost of 75,000 Baht. This provides you with the legal company authorizing you to do your Graphics work for U.S. customers, a work permit and I think (not totally sure of this part) that you can get a one year VISA based on this method also. That is if you do not qualify for a one year VISA, based on having a Thai spouse or Thai Dependents. Mind you this opportunity expires on 5 Dec 2006. I would recommend talking to Sunbelt Asia.

[webfact]

quote: >Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said.< end quote

Is the TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) already aware of the "law"? ... because this institution might become useless in future. I'm just wondering.

[Artisan]

With 5 pages of posts, I'm surprised no one yet has put forth the question of why now. I'm betting that this is a response to the idiot Karr of Jon Bonet Ramsey fame.

Anyone disagree?

Yes, I disagree vehemently and you'll lose you bet!

This particular 'crack-down' on multiple back-to-back border runs was proposed publicly sometime in 2001 or 2002 when Dr. Purachai Piemsomboon was Interior Minister. The essence of the proposal was, as has been confirmed now, that there could be no more than three of these back-to-back border runs and after the third one an absence of at least 90 days had to be shown in a person's passport. This proposal accompanied that recently enforced statute relating to nominee companies and the purchase of land in the name of that company. (Simply put, a company had to show that it provided a service or manufactured a product and had authentic shareholders).

Please don't think that I am saying that I told you so as I understand that the proposed introduction and enforcement of this law has brought anxiety, anger and confusion to many posters. I suggest that all of us hold our breath and wait to see what happens, and with what effect, next month. Inconsistency, ignorance and implausibility within the Royal Thai Immigration Police might see this one off.