SOLVIT - not such a simple answer.

[sandyf]

I have seen many posts on the forum where someone has related a bad experience and someone else glibly states they should report it to Solvit.

What I have never seen is anyone explain to the person concerned the criteria that needs to exist before a complaint can be initiated through Solvit.

Firstly, to initiate the process the applicant must use an address within the EU, not a problem to those that live there but could be to people living in Thailand.

Secondly, you can only initiate a complaint against a public authority with an address in the EU

It is certainly not as simple and straightforward as many of the 'knowledgeable' on here have tried to make out.

I have had an issue with the German embassy in Bangkok and wished to make a complaint, I couldn't do that and had to make the complaint against the German immigration in Berlin. This is a gamechanger on how the complaint can be laid out.

[theoldgit]

Hardly "glibly", I for one used the SOLVIT service when my partner had an issue with the French Visa section, who declined to process her application and were at odds with the EU regulations, they also ignored her complaints.

I made contact with the SOLVIT team in London, they responded to my complaint very quickly, as it seems they have done with you.

They kept me in the loop as to the progress of my grievance and it was soon resolved in our favour, and resolved very quickly.

I live in Thailand and didn't use an address in the EU, and this seems to be the case with you as you've said "I have had a response from Solvit to say that the complaint is justified and it would be investigated.

I found the case officer to be very open and focussed on my complaint, and she shared her views regarding the French Visa Section, which were rather similar to mine.

[sandyf]

Hardly "glibly", I for one used the SOLVIT service when my partner had an issue with the French Visa section, who declined to process her application and were at odds with the EU regulations, they also ignored her complaints.

I made contact with the SOLVIT team in London, they responded to my complaint very quickly, as it seems they have done with you.

They kept me in the loop as to the progress of my grievance and it was soon resolved in our favour, and resolved very quickly.

I live in Thailand and didn't use an address in the EU, and this seems to be the case with you as you've said "I have had a response from Solvit to say that the complaint is justified and it would be investigated.

I found the case officer to be very open and focussed on my complaint, and she shared her views regarding the French Visa Section, which were rather similar to mine.

I made the complaint online and I did have to use an EU address for both myself and the entity. The country field in both cases is mandatory and will only allow EU member states to be entered. I had to use my UK address and the complaint was directed to Solvit UK.

They responded fairly quickly, but that was just to say it was justified and ask for more details and information, they have yet to start the process. I do not see a quick resolution in this case, I suspect the Germans will argue the toss for a long time to come. They appear to have invested a great deal and failed to get it right but I cannot see them going backwards.

The other thing that I had never seen mentioned is consent and personal information, In my case I had to provide a copy of passport and marriage certificate along with the consent form. This is the text from the consent form.

I hereby consent to Action Single Market/UK SOLVIT Centre (BIS) disclosing my personal data, including any sensitive personal data, that I have provided in connection with my complaint about my ability to exercise my European Treaty rights, to the relevant authorities in other Member States, and/or the European Commission as appropriate.

I also consent to such information being disclosed to the European Commission for the purpose of monitoring the operation and efficiency of the SOLVIT Network.

In accordance with Part II of Schedule 1 of the Data Protection Act 1998 the Data Controller is the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. If you have any queries concerning the processing of the information you have provided us with, you should contact Chris Korcz, the Head of the Unit, on 020 7215 2833.

I can fully understand some people being reluctant to proceed on that basis. Anyone suggesting using Solvit should also give some indication of what may be involved so someone does not embark on what could be a non starter.

[7by7]

I'd have thought directing people to the Solvit website, where they can find out about the complaint procedure, was better then posting a copy and paste job from there!

Theoldgit's experience shows that complaints can be made from outside the EU about embassies etc. outside the EU; so I don't know why you have had difficulties in this area.

However, you say that Solvit have acknowledged your complaint, say it is justified and asked for more details and information so that they can investigate it properly.

You seem to dislike the consent you have to give them so that they can use that information in their investigation.

How do expect anyone to investigate a complaint made by you unless you give them the relevant information and they use that information when contacting the people about whom you are complaining?

The second part is pretty much standard procedure these days under various data protection legislation. Call any public body, and many private ones, and before you speak to a person you get a recorded message saying that the call may be recorded for monitoring and training purposes. It certainly does not mean your personal information is going to be made public without your permission!

[Donutz]

I know several people who used Solvit, pin nearly all cases with a a fast and positive outcome. Though one time with an incorrect conclusion and one time the other EU member simply would not comply and since Solvit has no legal powers it cannot force member states to comply. However it's still worth a try and an immigration-lawyer would recomment you to contact them. Not contacting them at all certainly won't benefit you, so it's worth a shot. If contacting them gets things done, that is what counts. If it doesn't, well atleast you tried.

[sandyf]

Theoldgit's experience shows that complaints can be made from outside the EU about embassies etc. outside the EU; so I don't know why you have had difficulties in this area.

It really is quite simple, the online procedure does not allow it.

Using the phone or writing a letter may open a different arrangement, I wouldn't know about that. I am posting from experience of the website system, not hearsay or speculation.

[theoldgit]

When I made my complaint I may well have entered an old UK postcode to get round the system, but in the supporting documents I made it very clear that I was complaining from Thailand and that my grievance was against the French visa section.

It would seem that there is nothing wrong with using a fictitious, or old, address to circumnavigate the system, sandyf seems to have done likewise, and once you're in the system the ball starts rolling, as it seems to have done for both of us.

Christine Korcz acknowledged that I was in Thailand and that the complaint was regarding the French visa section in Thailand, this was not an issue, and neither did she question it, as am an EU Citizen complaining that my rights under EU law were not being recognised and they still need to comply with EU law.

As I say, she was really frank with her views on how they handled the original application and indeed the way they handled the complaints.

I also had to give my consent to data being shared, she really couldn't have effectively processed the complaint with one hand tied behind her back and I took the view that the French Consulate had all the information anyway, so what was the risk?

Christine updated me regularly throughout her handling of my complaint and she reached a satisfactory outcome very quickly, by dealing directly with the MFA in Paris.

[sandyf]

When I made my complaint I may well have entered an old UK postcode to get round the system, but in the supporting documents I made it very clear that I was complaining from Thailand and that my grievance was against the French visa section.

It would seem that there is nothing wrong with using a fictitious, or old, address to circumnavigate the system, sandyf seems to have done likewise, and once you're in the system the ball starts rolling, as it seems to have done for both of us.

Christine Korcz acknowledged that I was in Thailand and that the complaint was regarding the French visa section in Thailand, this was not an issue, and neither did she question it, as am an EU Citizen complaining that my rights under EU law were not being recognised and they still need to comply with EU law.

As I say, she was really frank with her views on how they handled the original application and indeed the way they handled the complaints.

I also had to give my consent to data being shared, she really couldn't have effectively processed the complaint with one hand tied behind her back and I took the view that the French Consulate had all the information anyway, so what was the risk?

Christine updated me regularly throughout her handling of my complaint and she reached a satisfactory outcome very quickly, by dealing directly with the MFA in Paris.

You are quite right in what you say and as an EU national it should not matter where you live. The point i tried to make is that people should be made aware of the potential problems and be prepared to overcome them.

When I realised that I could not enter the address for the Bangkok embassy, I had to back off and find an address for German immigration, which turned out to be in Berlin. How did you deal with the address for French visa section?

I took the same view over consent and actually put my Thai address on the consent form. Some people can be a bit paranoid about things like that.

The content of a complaint is a different issue to the process. many, as in your own case will be looking for a solution to a personal issue. Very unlikely I will derive any benefit from this complaint. The German system is very efficient, they probably process applicants about 3 times as fast as the UK visa office. They can probably deal with over 90 percent of applicants without a problem but in doing so they are abusing the rights of a minority.

The real danger here is that other countries see the benefit of the German system and take it on board, before long the uniform visa system is the German system and a full set of docs at all EU embassies.

[sandyf]

Latest from SOLVIT

I can understand your frustration about a problem that has continued to exist for some time. Although SOLVIT exists to overturn or rectify a specific problem, I think I will leave this case on the database and see how the German Authority responds to the concerns raised. At the very least, if you remain dissatisfied with the response you can use it to make a formal complaint to the European Commission.

Regards

Christine Korcz

UK SOLVIT Centre

[sandyf]

I received the following this morning.

I have received a response from SOLVIT Germany advising that the Embassy has recognised its error and that the practice of asking for excessive evidence will stop. New literature is being created that will inform applicants clearly as to what information they should present, and this will be in accord with EU free movement legislation.

Regards

Christine Korcz

UK SOLVIT Centre
Direct line: 020 7215 2833

[bobrussell]

I believe SOLVIT must have given up with the UK authorities. They confirmed that the wife of a Swiss national required an EEA Family Permit but admitted in the email that it was unlikely that the UK are likely to follow the rules and it was equally unlikely that further action would be constructive!

Cleverly the UKVI refused to process the second application without stating clearly (in a way that the applicant could understand!) why. No application, no appeal!

[7by7]

Despite his initial dismissal of Solvit, it seems that the OP has now received a satisfactory resolution to his complaint; which he has had the grace to acknowledge.

It may not have come in time for the particular application with which he was involved; but the Germans should in future act according to the regulations.

However, as Donutz said

...... Solvit has no legal powers it cannot force member states to comply. However it's still worth a try and an immigration-lawyer would recomment you to contact them. Not contacting them at all certainly won't benefit you, so it's worth a shot. If contacting them gets things done, that is what counts. If it doesn't, well atleast you tried.

Also, as SOLVIT told the OP in June

......I will leave this case on the database and see how the German Authority responds to the concerns raised. At the very least, if you remain dissatisfied with the response you can use it to make a formal complaint to the European Commission

Whether such a complaint followed by a ruling in favour of the complainant would force a member state to comply with the regulations is debatable

[bobrussell]

SOLVIT was efficient, easy to contact and pleasant to deal with. The replies I got confirmed we were right and UKVI were wrong but ultimately SOLVIT can only work with a degree of cooperation from the EU countries. A moral victory even if a bit of a hollow one!