Tourist Shot, Killed On Phi Phi

[Frotting]

Case in point...

Here's the link to an article from the Belgian Press:

http://www.hbvl.be/nieuws/Buitenland/defau...D-E4A1E8AC5B83}

in Belgian? French Belgian? German Belgian?

If any TV members could translate.... I'm not having much success with finding a Belgian =- > English online translation site.

John

Could be Flemish, try that (bit like Dutch) not all speak French. Thanks for keeping us all up to date BTW.

Cheers

[Frotting]

hello S.J.,

cricky's mate,

you are really starting to warm to me arn't you ?

at last you have snapped out of your ever present depression, finally seen light and have come to the realisation that my posts are truly "TOP SHELF STUFF"

your a bleeding, cracker, ripping, top of the ladder sort of fella S. J.

but im sorry to inform you S.J. there's some punters out there who think the exact opposite

off you go mate and take your medication.

cheers fella

I think John might have been referring to your commentator when he mentioned 'Top Shelf Stuff'. Indeed, I thought his comments to your post were well thought out, articulate and well-informed. Why don't you quit while you're 'ahead'.......................

[sriracha john]

To: terry57

You have 16 of the 80 posts here. That is one out of every five. This story seems to be close to your "heart."

***You stated below:

terry57:

sounds like the dude had seriously pissed off one of the locals.

****But this is not stated as a fact in the story.

Here is what the murderer said, although with your infinite wisdom of this land, I am sure that you know enough not to trust the words of a murderer.

****Wanchai the Murderer:

Wanchai said the Belgian was drinking heavily and the two got into an argument after Van Der Vaeren insulted a Thai woman at the bar,

terry57:

"its a tragedy that this drunken farang got a bullet sandwich for his bad manners. "

****Here you are, taking the word of the murderer for the reason for his murder.

terry57

"but punters must learn to treat thai with respect and dont get to pissed up."

****I have had lots of disagreements with Thais--about money as well, and none of them has ever made or shown any sign of wanting to harm me over this. It is not a STANDARD feature of the culture, but it does happen, and when it does, it appears in the news and on this forum. Hundreds of foreigners have hundreds of disagreements with Thais everyday and they do not get shot over it. This Thai man is the exception. If he weren't, then this would not be in the news.

terry57

"reason being, there's plenty of pissed up farang's with bad attitudes that need sorting out."

****It seems that you have jumped from "pissed off the locals" to "bad manners" to "bad attitudes" and need to be sorted out. Would you be so kind as to define "sorting out" for me and the rest of the board members? It certainly sounds like an unusual thing to say considering this case.

From the Translation:

Translation:

The police say : "the cause is a dispute that started inside the bar". The victim's family and friends do not agree, they have doubts about this. They say that the victim was not a "fighter", and always tries to cool down situations.

TV Channel 11:

Wanchai confessed saying that they had a fight before he shot the man in the head.

Belgian Newspaper:

Wanchai confessed saying that they had a fight before he shot the man in the head.

terry57

dont know about that my friend as if you spat in my face and called my beloved mother a dirty monkey whore id frigging blow you away in 2 seconds.

and im a placid aussie fella.

**** No, I beg to differ. You are not a placid Australian, if you behave in anyway like you write.

terry57

its only the cock heads who have trouble in thailand and 99% of the time its there own doing, like our pissed up friend here.

****No, it is not only the "cock heads." Lots of normal people who mind their own business get killed and stolen from here. (Are you familiar with the policeman and the backpackers in Kanchanaburi?) And, there is as of yet any evidence or factual references that this was of the young Belgian man's own doing. The only one saying it was has been the murderer, Wanchai and you.

terry57

ive never seen a thai attack a farang for no reason,

****Then you need to get out more. People from this country and foreign countries are attacked here and elsewhere for no reason. Will your next argument be concerning the European women who have been raped here? Was this their own doing? Were the Thais "pushed too far?"

terry57

the U.S.A. is a frigging joke as its nearly law that you must own a gun and the nut cases running around shooting up schools and killing people is truly horrifying.

****The US does not have any laws which state that citizens must own a gun. It is not "nearly a law" either.

terry57

you obviously have not read all the posts on this topic,

****I have read each and every one of the posts on this topic while paying special attention to your posts.

terry57

so please scroll backwards and re read them and you will understand the meaning of that statement.

****I understand the meaning of all of your statements. The rest of the board members do as well.

terry57

you are light years away from my true meaning and its very clear if you choose to read the post properly.

****Please allow me and the rest of the board members to know your TRUE MEANING. You have basically shown yourself to be an apologist for the behavior of the murderer and in SO MANY WORDS showed us all that you believe that the young Belgian man got what he had coming and that he was the one who was out of line.

im reading your post here and you just dont get anything at all that im trying to say do you ?

****I am getting a lot of what you are saying. What is showing right through your words is your sanctimonious belief in yourself and your unequaled illiteracy that would put your fellow Aussies to shame. My apologies to the rest of the Australian community.

you sound like you have been in thailand 20 frigging seconds.

*****I have lived here 8 1/2 of the past 16 years.

I have bought and sold 5 houses.

I earn over 70,000 on the local economy without a foreign company sponsoring me and have nothing to do with bars.

I speak the language very well.

I have a dozen articles published on the country in FEER, Time Asia, Bangkok Post, The Nation, etc.

I have two books published on the country. One is a best seller here and the other one has just started selling in the USA. The new one in the USA has already been translated into French.

I have been here a few more than 20 seconds.

terry57

look i feel im wasting my time on you but here we go and i'll say it again for the 40th time and please bloody listen will you.

****You are not wasting your time with me, but I do feel that I have wasted just about enough time with you. And, that was your 13th post, not your 40th.

terry57

the law is extremely flexible in thailand and if one can near on buy his way out of anything.

****The law is not as flexible as you are trying to make it appear in a case like this. Buying your way out of something is very common, but not within the law. It is certainly within the system, but not within the law. And, in this case, Wanchai will not be buying his way out of anything, so your gibberish is once again irrelevant.

terry57

one can buy his way out of a murder charge if one has the money by paying off corrupt police very easily.

this case is a bit different because it is too hard to cover up and the killers will more than likely die for it, which is ok by me as its a tragedy that the young guy ate a bullet.

****Then why did you bother mentioning it if this case is different? Are you trying to show us all your foolishness on a variety of topics.

terry57

of course there is no good reason to shoot this fellow, UNLESS YOU ARE A THAI AND HAVE LOST FACE BECAUSE OF THE YOUNG FELLOW LOSING HIS MANNERS.

****Once again, the only one we have saying "THIS YOUNG FELLOW LOST HIS MANNERS," is the murderer, Wanchai. Now, there is little doubt that they had a some form of a disagreement, but you continue stating that the victim behaved in a way which warranted the response he received.

terry57

can you understand that ? if not get yourself a book on the thai psyche, sit down and read the whole thing and you might learn something.

****Which books would you recommend? Do any of these esteemed books which you recommend have a special section on Aussie Apologists?

terry57

you say you have spoken to the thai's about shooting people over disagreements and they said your not allowed to do it.

****NO, that is not what I said. I said that I had spoken to Thais about this case, and that they were embarrassed over it. They were embarrassed over the behavior of their countryman. Even if this young man was obnoxious beyond all belief, it would still be unusual for him to get shot over. There are a very large number of boisterous, vile drunken men in Pattaya every day, insulting everyone in their path, and only occasionally does one of them get shot. It is rare because IT IS NOT STANDARD BEHAVIOR to shoot someone who insults or ridicules you in this country. If it were, there would be a dozen foreigners being shot every day in Pattaya and this would not be big news here.

terry57

now please,

what did you think they would say ? oh yes, thats perfectly ok in los?

****As none of them has ever shot anyone from any country, they just might be the placid type. I should meet more "real manly types" like you. Whether you want to believe it or not, every Thai does not run for a gun after a disagreement. Thais, just like people in my country, are perfectly capable of having a fight, yelling, throwing things at each other, and then leaving after they have had their go at each other.

terry57

its open season on drunken farang these days. get real please.

look mate,

this is a strait up case of the dangers of tackling the thai.

you just dont piss them off if you want to live a bit longer as they will shoot you in a nano second if you cause them to lose face.

****A percentage of them will, as in this case. And, I appreciate the advice.

terry57

listen and learn please and please dont misinterprate my posts.

****Do I interpret "misinterprate," as misinterpret?

****If you want to make friends and influence people, get a dictionary or spell check and display your views for your own eyes to see on a Microsoft Word Document first prior to showing it to the rest of us. Then, correct all of the errors such as the lack of capitalization, apostrophes, commas and spelling errors. Then, if you have any energy left, work on content.

****If you want to show some respect to the people of Thailand, then spell the name of this Kingdom “Thailand.” Please note that the letter “T” is a capital.

****When is Australia going to start administering IQ tests prior to issuing passports?

crikey.... that's top shelf stuff...

hello S.J.,

cricky's mate,

you are really starting to warm to me arn't you ?

at last you have snapped out of your ever present depression, finally seen light and have come to the realisation that my posts are truly "TOP SHELF STUFF"

your a bleeding, cracker, ripping, top of the ladder sort of fella S. J.

but im sorry to inform you S.J. there's some punters out there who think the exact opposite

off you go mate and take your medication.

cheers fella

I think John might have been referring to your commentator when he mentioned 'Top Shelf Stuff'. Indeed, I thought his comments to your post were well thought out, articulate and well-informed. Why don't you quit while you're 'ahead'.......................

Greetings to you, Frotting... You are indeed correct in that I was facetiously mocking by using a typical Terry57-ish response to what has to be the most comprehensive dissection and disembowelment of a member's posting in the history of Thaivisa (and well worth a re-quote in its entirety here in this post).

A truly monumental, yet entirely worthwhile and wholly respected, effort expended by eljeque.

It matters not one iota that it is a year and half old... if anything, its timeless beauty stands out more distinctly as this type of post is a rare gem. It truly is "top shelf" and deserving of an award for its complete and utter slaying of a member and done so completely without a single flame.

[sriracha john]

Case in point...

Here's the link to an article from the Belgian Press:

http://www.hbvl.be/nieuws/Buitenland/defau...D-E4A1E8AC5B83}

in Belgian? French Belgian? German Belgian?

If any TV members could translate.... I'm not having much success with finding a Belgian =- > English online translation site.

John

Could be Flemish, try that (bit like Dutch) not all speak French. Thanks for keeping us all up to date BTW.

Cheers

Thank you, my friend.... but I hesitate to disappoint you by pointing out that the "updating" link you refer to is a year and half old... (it's also no longer working).

I appreciate you bringing me back to this thread and its story. It's stirred a lot of memories for me.

Such a tragedy that seems to have been repeated so many times since it happened.

Edited February 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[Frotting]

S' John....

My apologies for not seeing the thread was very old. First time I'd seen it in the clippings menu. Perhaps next time I should check the date.. ...I do however, enjoy your posts and John Clifton's also. Cheers

[sriracha john]

S' John....

My apologies for not seeing the thread was very old. First time I'd seen it in the clippings menu. Perhaps next time I should check the date.. ...I do however, enjoy your posts and John Clifton's also. Cheers

No apologies necessary... your oversight is one very frequently encountered whenever the archive folders are brought upstairs. As stated, it prompted me to go back through the thread and I appreciated doing that.

I thank you for your compliments and I'm sure John (Tony) Clifton does, too.

*just razzing ya*

[jellymeister]

A freind of mine who's traveled all over Asia, including Thailand told me once that the Thai's are essentially a "warrior" people. I'v always kept this in mind when i'v been in Thailand! It aint wise to upset the locals or get so pissed-up you don't know what your saying.

I'm further reminded of the Thai's warrior instincs when ever i upset my Wife (Thai) all smiles up to a point then...well put it this way i'm nursing my bruises from thrown fruit, mugs and anything else at hand for several days after!

So my message (or rather my Wife's) is, keep your cool, be overly polite and don't travel to far off the beaten track.

not quite so sure I would qualify such behaviour as that of "warrior" people but rather people with a short fuse...I think more of the samurai, brits, or mongols as "warrior" people

In any event whatever you wish to call them, it is always best to exercise caution, be apologetic, pay some cash to the offended party and live to drink another day.....

[seri thai]

And if the Police can not catch the offenders on an Island then they are part of the problem. Very sad news indeed.

And if the Police can not catch the offenders on THIS Island then they are part of the problem. Very sad news indeed.

[seri thai]

S' John....

My apologies for not seeing the thread was very old. First time I'd seen it in the clippings menu. Perhaps next time I should check the date.. ...I do however, enjoy your posts and John Clifton's also. Cheers

DOH! Anyway we might as well recycle the old stories, they dont change much and neither do the opinions!

Coup, Election, Stangulation, Coup election, Decapitation, Coup, Election, Defenestration

[bkkjames]

It seems this type of thing happens with regularity. Now before all the Thai defenders rush to state "how many tourists were shot in spain, cambodia, usa or whatever compared to Thailand" please keep in mind that we are talking about Thailand. Sad as events in other countries may be, I am only concerned with what happens in Thailand so to should this forum.

Here is my suggestion. Let's ask Thai Visa.com to have a permentent heading under "Foreign Body Count 2008", just names, nationalities and type of death.

This would be a running count and would not be open to comments from TV members. You see the big problem is that we run on and on for pages about he was drunk this, did that and lose sight of the fact that the murder in question, is just the latest in an ongoing trend. It becomes the norm.

Authorities are quick to brush of each with some valid excuse "They are not from around these parts - local people wouldn't do this etc".

What the authorities need is a long list (which shouldn't be hard to put together) for all the world to see. Unlike Songkran when the running death toll doesn't put names to numbers, this would and would hopefully inspire authorities to actually do something about it.

No longer would the farang murder of the week be forgotten. Just guessing but so far this year I think we are well over 10 foreigners murdered? As an example, I don't know how many US soldiers died in Vietnam, but I am sure the Vietnam war memorial is more moving than just xxx number dead.

I don't suppose this would fly because TV would likely get censored.

[mikethevigoman]

Tourist shot, killed on Phi Phi

Police say a 24-year-old Belgian tourist has been shot dead on Thailand's popular Phi Phi island.

Police Colonel Boontawee Toraksa says the man was gunned down in front of a budget beach hotel as he came back from a local bar with two other westerners.

"Witnesses told us three young men approached the Belgian and shot him in the head," he said.

Colonel Boontawee says the two others are unharmed.

He says the Belgian, whose identity is not clear, arrived in Phi Phi last week with a brother.

Police have declined to give further details.

Phi Phi is known for its postcard-perfect beaches and was used as the location for the 2000 Hollywood film, The Beach, starring Leonardo DiCaprio.

today's bangkok post

Im waiting for all the " oh this happens in torquay,brighton" bridgade , its the wild west and im of the opinion that i wont recommend a holiday here again,

[mikethevigoman]

its a tragedy that this drunken farang got a bullet sandwich for his bad manners.

but punters must learn to treat thai with respect and dont get to pissed up.

different country , different rules and it never happens to people that play within the rules.

reason being , there's plenty of pissed up farang's with bad attitudes that need sorting out.

now dont spit the dummy punters as its not good that this guy got a bullet, but we all must remember were we are, and what's going down.

I agree, geting into a ruck with a thai will be like taking a knife to a gunfight !,. dont get involved, we lose, period,.

[misterman21]

sounds like the dude had seriously pissed off one of the locals.

Depends on your definition of serious - most tourists murdered in thailand have done little more than cause embarresment to some fragile pea brained local!

[RusticCharm]

you cant blame the thais for using weapons cos they are physically much smaller than most of us. they need them to even up a fight

Absolutely unbelievable statement!

But aren't they all supposed to be hard kickboxers?

[farang prince]

I dug out this old thread as

1) there was a comment on one of the current "Canadian" threads about starting up a website listing deaths of foreign tourists in Thailand and it was suggested also on this thread.

2) I could find no record of any convictions or acquittals using google.

http://tnews.teenee.com/crime/4193.html

Briggsy, you should be ashamed of yourself for dragging up an old murder case and getting everyone all steamed up again.

[Thanh-BKK]

Once again.

Someone was killed for-whatever-reason, but it ONLY happened because at least one party was DRUNK.

Had they partied with Pepsi, like i do, nothing would have happened.

But let's continue to drink, and then let's go continue the bashing of smokers, shall we?

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Tatler]

Thai men are a bunch weak assed bastards who only know how to fight with help of their gang friends and if that doesn't work they just shoot you. One on one they are nothing. These men who commited this crime should all be executed. There is no excuse for what they did, a cold blooded murder.

I have to agree, it's never one on one here in Thailand!! But tell me where it's one on one?? i've lived in many places and i can't remember seeing one on one fights that often, usually one poor guy getting the sh@t kicked out of him by 4 or 5 others

[007]

Thailand has one of the highest rates of gun-related deaths in the world, after South Africa, Colombia and.. The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) won't tell in their advertising campaigns, though.

True, the large majority of the victims are Thai citizens, but occasionally foreign tourists have the bad luck of being in the 'wrong place' at the wrong time.

[Gravelrash]

Get a grip on the fact that the Marque of St Queensbury rules do not apply in this culture in any way shape or form. Back home it also has no relevance to immigrant groups or many local gangs for that matter. There is no honour perceived in one on one fighting in many cultures, it is about winning and inflicting damage to anyone that crosses you. How you acheve that is irrelevant. Understand this and you will also understand you don't bring a gun to a knife fight, you bring a bazooka and half an army just to make sure.

Obviously this attitude mixed with alcohol is very dangerous, elevating situations far beyond where they need be.

[BigSnake]

DRUGS?? Sure we will learn more in the days to come. Sad

[RusticCharm]

Thai's are essentially a "warrior" people

Yeah, right!

I was amazed how their 'warrior instincts' rose to the fore in WWII when the Japs invaded.

well put it this way i'm nursing my bruises from thrown fruit, mugs and anything else at hand for several days after!

So my message (or rather my Wife's) is, keep your cool, be overly polite and don't travel to far off the beaten track.

And my message to you, is to grow a pair and stop allowing yourself to be beaten by your wife.

i have absolutely no problem with this as ive seen some shockingly drunken falang get sorted out by my thai friends.

Right, right.

I noticed you said 'friends', plural.

Another case of 5 against 1, eh?

[Maizefarmer]

sticks reads the thai newspapers

who says the information in the thai papers is any more reliable than any other source of information here. nobody knows anything.

as for the woman in the restaurant (the girl in the local cafe !) , how did she manage to find out that this tourist had had an affair with a woman in bangkok and that he was shot by a hitman contracted to do the job , i suppose the hitman announced it to the restaurant staff before pulling the trigger.

bystanders rarely get involved here , to admit to knowing anything can get you in all kinds of bother.

just hose away the blood on the pavement and carry on as normal , its over , finished , now what was it you ordered for lunch.

I read Thai newspapers - daily. What they have reported on this matter to date is much the same as has being reported in the English print media. A large part of English print media in Thailand is sourced off the same wires as is the Thai language prints.

I have lost count of the times I have read of assualt and murder incidents invloving both Thai's and ex-pats (meaning both Thai on Thai and Thai on ex-pat, for lack of a better way of putting it) only to find come the court case, that what then comes out is very different to what had being printed in both English and Thai language prints leading up to the court case.

[pickel]

Does anyone look at the dates on threads anymore?

[brahmburgers]

all humans have warriors in their ancestory. Thais aren't any more warrior caste than others, and possibly a lot less if you count major military mix-ups in recorded history.

The violence we've been hearing about - most noticeably farang getting shot and murdered - has nothing to do with warrior tendencies - and everything to do with being thin skinned and taking the cowardly way out - namely picking up a deadly weapon and using it with deadly results.

Having a short fuse and being easily offended has nothing to do with being a warrior. a 5 year old kid can pull a trigger and kill a big man with a revolver - does that make her a warrior?

Thais need to do a whole lot of growing up. How to set that in motion? I don't know. One suggestion: less violent pap in videos would be a start. Thai parents let their kids watch the worst violent cr@p on the tube, with nary a yawning 'mai pen rai' .....go figure.

[Heng]

Thai men are a bunch weak assed bastards who only know how to fight with help of their gang friends and if that doesn't work they just shoot you. One on one they are nothing. These men who commited this crime should all be executed. There is no excuse for what they did, a cold blooded murder.

I have to agree, it's never one on one here in Thailand!! But tell me where it's one on one?? i've lived in many places and i can't remember seeing one on one fights that often, usually one poor guy getting the sh@t kicked out of him by 4 or 5 others

It's certainly not one on one in Iraq or Afganistan, it's not one on one in the Gaza Strip, it wasn't one on one at Hiroshima or Nagasaki either. It's been the same throughout history... the only people complaining about the odds are the ones who are afraid of losing or who have already lost. When you've won, you can call it whatever you want... superior tactics/firepower/etc.

[Sunderland]

How many times has this dead tourist been shot and killed??????

Sounds spooky.

[funfun]

if the dude had read her words maybe he would be alive today.

If the Thai man in this instance had not been raised as a lunatic, the Belgian would be alive. Why and how did this "man" access a gun so readily? He must have already had it, and for what reason would he have a gun on Phi Phi? If he was not a local, he must have transported it. Why would he bring a gun there? We will soon learn that the gun was not legally owned, and probably a little more about this guys background.

The Thai people are not doing themselves any favors.

thais love guns, theres a hit man on every corner, life is cheap in thailand.

moral of the story is : be a good punter and you will never have a problem.

lets turn this around shall we,

if the belgian was not a pissed up lunatic being disrespectful to the thai ,

he would still be alive today drinking a nice glass of lager.

if you know anything about thailand you will know this to be fact.

well ive never been to austrailia so i dont know thier laws, but wouldnt think its the sa me as this,

"f the belgian was not a pissed up lunatic being disrespectful to the thai ,

he would still be alive today drinking a nice glass of lager.

im from uk, an if a "belgian" was pissed up and disrespectfull to "others" he would go home or hotel with a warning and he would still be alive today drinking a nice glass of lager.

"i have absolutely no problem with this as ive seen some shockingly drunken falang get sorted out by my thai friends"

You think as many others do, you think you are no longer a falang and now accepeted into the Thai Family, i only hope if you get killed here by one of your friends, just one person shows the same amount of respect and ignorance as you have in this thread!

[Briggsy]

So where would one start looking to find information on all the very serious cases like this one which often seem to just drop off the press' radar. Don't suppose there is a freedom of information act in Thailand!

[wintermute]

Thai men are a bunch weak assed bastards who only know how to fight with help of their gang friends and if that doesn't work they just shoot you. One on one they are nothing. These men who commited this crime should all be executed. There is no excuse for what they did, a cold blooded murder.

I have to agree, it's never one on one here in Thailand!! But tell me where it's one on one?? i've lived in many places and i can't remember seeing one on one fights that often, usually one poor guy getting the sh@t kicked out of him by 4 or 5 others

It's certainly not one on one in Iraq or Afganistan, it's not one on one in the Gaza Strip, it wasn't one on one at Hiroshima or Nagasaki either. It's been the same throughout history... the only people complaining about the odds are the ones who are afraid of losing or who have already lost. When you've won, you can call it whatever you want... superior tactics/firepower/etc.

Yeah, I don't understand the viewpoint espoused in this thread either about "fair fights." To be honest i've rarely seen a completely fair fight in the western world. I hear about lots of gang violence where people get killed for no reason in the same fashion or people getting blown away over insults as well. This idea that everything is one on one and completely fair in the west is pretty much laughable ethnocentric crap by ancient expats reminiscing about an idealized version of whatever hick town they crawled out of.

I don't fault Thais for taking this viewpoint because that's just how it's done. You aren't fighting for honor you're fighting to win at any cost..plain and simple. It's a very predatory type of reaction but it makes a lot of sense. You don't see wolves puff out their chests and yell at deer they are trying to kill. They stalk and kill it with brutal efficiency in a pack.

[MrOzark]

I don't fault Thai's specifically. I fault any coward that requires you needing to

to use an illustration involving a pack of wild animals

in order to justify their behavior.

Thai men are a bunch weak assed bastards who only know how to fight with help of their gang friends and if that doesn't work they just shoot you. One on one they are nothing. These men who commited this crime should all be executed. There is no excuse for what they did, a cold blooded murder.

I have to agree, it's never one on one here in Thailand!! But tell me where it's one on one?? i've lived in many places and i can't remember seeing one on one fights that often, usually one poor guy getting the sh@t kicked out of him by 4 or 5 others

It's certainly not one on one in Iraq or Afganistan, it's not one on one in the Gaza Strip, it wasn't one on one at Hiroshima or Nagasaki either. It's been the same throughout history... the only people complaining about the odds are the ones who are afraid of losing or who have already lost. When you've won, you can call it whatever you want... superior tactics/firepower/etc.

Yeah, I don't understand the viewpoint espoused in this thread either about "fair fights." To be honest i've rarely seen a completely fair fight in the western world. I hear about lots of gang violence where people get killed for no reason in the same fashion or people getting blown away over insults as well. This idea that everything is one on one and completely fair in the west is pretty much laughable ethnocentric crap by ancient expats reminiscing about an idealized version of whatever hick town they crawled out of.

I don't fault Thais for taking this viewpoint because that's just how it's done. You aren't fighting for honor you're fighting to win at any cost..plain and simple. It's a very predatory type of reaction but it makes a lot of sense. You don't see wolves puff out their chests and yell at deer they are trying to kill. They stalk and kill it with brutal efficiency in a pack.