English test results

[SlyAnimal]

Today all of the permanent Thai English teachers should have taken the CERF English proficiency exams.

I'm curious as to how the Thai teachers at your respective schools did.

From what the teachers at my school were saying on line, many of them weren't happy with their results (Although from the sounds, they were on par with teachers from other schools in our province). They did go out for dinner & karaoke afterwards though, which seems to have lifted their spirits a little.

None of the teachers who I expected to do well have posted with their thoughts/results though.

I'll probably find out more on Monday from them, but in the meantime am curious about the teachers from other schools generally did.

[lostinisaan]

Location: Small Anuban in Sisaket province. Dates of testing: 23. + 30. 4. 2015. Amount of Thai teachers who took the test: Six

Only one out of six scored B 1, (our coordinator, who was with me when I held a CEFR seminar to prepare teachers for the test, already a year ago)

One had A 2, the rest scored A 1. Those with A 2 are allowed to continue without attending seminars, while all the others with A 1 have to go to various seminars soon, until they reach B 1 level.

Edited May 23, 2015 by lostinisaan

[puchooay]

It doedn't matter what the scores were. The matter of fact is that nothing will be done. Teachers fail and everyone laughs.

The national average for matayom 6 (grade 12) students this year in the Onet English test was less than a pass. I cannot confirm the true average but have heard that it was around 32%.

That test was taken months ago. What has happened?

[Mr Somtam]

Location: Small Anuban in Sisaket province. Dates of testing: 23. + 30. 4. 2015. Amount of Thai teachers who took the test: Six

Only one out of six scored B 1, (our coordinator, who was with me when I held a CEFR seminar to prepare teachers for the test, already a year ago)

One had A 2, the rest scored A 1. Those with A 2 are allowed to continue without attending seminars, while all the others with A 1 have to go to various seminars soon, until they reach B 1 level.

I would say a TEACHER must score C2, at the very least C1. The others are teachah.

[lostinisaan]

Location: Small Anuban in Sisaket province. Dates of testing: 23. + 30. 4. 2015. Amount of Thai teachers who took the test: Six

Only one out of six scored B 1, (our coordinator, who was with me when I held a CEFR seminar to prepare teachers for the test, already a year ago)

One had A 2, the rest scored A 1. Those with A 2 are allowed to continue without attending seminars, while all the others with A 1 have to go to various seminars soon, until they reach B 1 level.

I would say a TEACHER must score C2, at the very least C1. The others are teachah.

Teachers should pass at least C 1, I totally agree. The testing the teachers, by using these CEFR tests is just the beginning. In the near future grade six students will have to pass A 1 level, while grade 12 pupils have to "master" B 1, or B 2 level.

CEFR tests will replace the always negatively discussed O-net tests.

The biggest problem I see is that teachers who scored A 1 in their tests won't learn proper English in a few weekend seminars.

[SlyAnimal]

If they need to raise their level of English upto B1, they'll probably do some extra self study to bring their English level up. For a lot of them, their vocab is quite good & they know the grammar rules, they're just not used to using them in real situations or to speaking/listening, so with a bit of practice they should improve quite quickly.

E.g. While the teachers were taking some practice tests this week, they asked me for some assistance. They were having a lot of trouble, particularly on the listening & cloze activities, but with the cloze activities, when I asked them questions like:

What tense is it?

What type of word is required? (verb/noun etc)

Based on the context, will it be a positive word or negative word?

They could answer all 3 correctly, but would simply have trouble finding the correct word as they simply weren't used to actually using English in practical situations.

In the line conversations they mentioned something about seminars, so now that makes a lot more sense I've offered to give them some practice sessions too which should be fun

[lostinisaan]

If they need to raise their level of English upto B1, they'll probably do some extra self study to bring their English level up. For a lot of them, their vocab is quite good & they know the grammar rules, they're just not used to using them in real situations or to speaking/listening, so with a bit of practice they should improve quite quickly.

E.g. While the teachers were taking some practice tests this week, they asked me for some assistance. They were having a lot of trouble, particularly on the listening & cloze activities, but with the cloze activities, when I asked them questions like:

What tense is it?

What type of word is required? (verb/noun etc)

Based on the context, will it be a positive word or negative word?

They could answer all 3 correctly, but would simply have trouble finding the correct word as they simply weren't used to actually using English in practical situations.

In the line conversations they mentioned something about seminars, so now that makes a lot more sense I've offered to give them some practice sessions too which should be fun

Using the CEFR website, going through the used vocabulary, grammar, etc...then the listening part, ( most had/have a problem to understand British English, even when clearly spoken) split into sentences, sequences helps a lot to "teach" them this part.

There're so many who'll have to attend seminars. If you like to make good money, talk to the guys from your educational area xx office and do some seminars.

Two guys can easily do a seminar for 50 - 70 teachers, depending on the location.

[Mr Somtam]

Location: Small Anuban in Sisaket province. Dates of testing: 23. + 30. 4. 2015. Amount of Thai teachers who took the test: Six

Only one out of six scored B 1, (our coordinator, who was with me when I held a CEFR seminar to prepare teachers for the test, already a year ago)

One had A 2, the rest scored A 1. Those with A 2 are allowed to continue without attending seminars, while all the others with A 1 have to go to various seminars soon, until they reach B 1 level.

I would say a TEACHER must score C2, at the very least C1. The others are teachah.

Teachers should pass at least C 1, I totally agree. The testing the teachers, by using these CEFR tests is just the beginning. In the near future grade six students will have to pass A 1 level, while grade 12 pupils have to "master" B 1, or B 2 level.

CEFR tests will replace the always negatively discussed O-net tests.

The biggest problem I see is that teachers who scored A 1 in their tests won't learn proper English in a few weekend seminars.

And so they get fired, it's quite simple actually.

[puchooay]

Location: Small Anuban in Sisaket province. Dates of testing: 23. + 30. 4. 2015. Amount of Thai teachers who took the test: Six

Only one out of six scored B 1, (our coordinator, who was with me when I held a CEFR seminar to prepare teachers for the test, already a year ago)

One had A 2, the rest scored A 1. Those with A 2 are allowed to continue without attending seminars, while all the others with A 1 have to go to various seminars soon, until they reach B 1 level.

I would say a TEACHER must score C2, at the very least C1. The others are teachah.

Teachers should pass at least C 1, I totally agree. The testing the teachers, by using these CEFR tests is just the beginning. In the near future grade six students will have to pass A 1 level, while grade 12 pupils have to "master" B 1, or B 2 level.

CEFR tests will replace the always negatively discussed O-net tests.

The biggest problem I see is that teachers who scored A 1 in their tests won't learn proper English in a few weekend seminars.

And so they get fired, it's quite simple actually.

Exactly right. It doesn't matter what the test is called or how it is discussed. The simple fact of the matter is that everyone will eventually pass. There are some kids in my village currently putting their "ร"s right. They are using garden hoes and grass cutters. Nuff said.

[lostoday]

Location: Small Anuban in Sisaket province. Dates of testing: 23. + 30. 4. 2015. Amount of Thai teachers who took the test: Six

Only one out of six scored B 1, (our coordinator, who was with me when I held a CEFR seminar to prepare teachers for the test, already a year ago)

One had A 2, the rest scored A 1. Those with A 2 are allowed to continue without attending seminars, while all the others with A 1 have to go to various seminars soon, until they reach B 1 level.

I would say a TEACHER must score C2, at the very least C1. The others are teachah.

Teachers should pass at least C 1, I totally agree. The testing the teachers, by using these CEFR tests is just the beginning. In the near future grade six students will have to pass A 1 level, while grade 12 pupils have to "master" B 1, or B 2 level.

CEFR tests will replace the always negatively discussed O-net tests.

The biggest problem I see is that teachers who scored A 1 in their tests won't learn proper English in a few weekend seminars.

And so they get fired, it's quite simple actually.

Replace them with native speakers from Africa and Philippines same price and although not perfect - much better and easy quick solution.

[Yooyung]

'Replace them with native speakers from Africa and Philippines same price and although not perfect - much better and easy quick solution'

I assume you are joking? If not, you seem to have a complete lack of understanding of the world that I, and most people with a brain are living in. Calling a Filipino a 'native speaker' is a bit like calling a decaf coffee a 'real' coffee......it aint. Most Filipino that I have worked with were ok at teaching young kids BUT could not handle teaching at higher levels. A lot of them speak English quite well, I will give them that......but please, if we are talking about teaching at an adult level

[Rhys]

at some university, it is still like teaching high school students with behavioral issues and lower cognitive function...and at some universities...calling the adult learners.. that is a bit of a stretch... some students and some university..

[casualbiker]

Did private school teachers have to take this test as well?

[SlyAnimal]

Did private school teachers have to take this test as well?

I don't think so, as the teachers on annual contracts (i.e.not civil servants) at my school didn't take it (And private school teachers are on annual contracts).

[nellyp]

The teacher at my school who scored the highest mark obtained a B2, even though her conversational skills are probably the best I have encountered in a Thai teacher; which in itself makes me wonder about the test. I also wonder at the logic of a teacher who only has the same level of attainment as is expected of their students being allowed to teach that level. Surely they should be at least one grade higher. A Mattayom 6 teacher with a level of English equivalent to the expected ability is folly, but I expect will be accepted

It is also telling that the head of the English department, or head of the department for that year (I can't remember which), scored an A1.

[Mr Somtam]

Close the schools for a year. Get all the teachers up to standard. English C1 at least. All that can't do it should not be teachers. Maybe they can assist classes. But the older teachers assisting the younger ones? In Thailand?

[lostinisaan]

Close the schools for a year. Get all the teachers up to standard. English C1 at least. All that can't do it should not be teachers. Maybe they can assist classes. But the older teachers assisting the younger ones? In Thailand?

How could they learn all the used vocabulary, including the use of the right grammar and sentence structure, that's being used in C 1 level, within one year?

Send all who want to become English teachers to an English speaking country, let them study for a BA and when they come back they do speak and write proper English.

And they won't lose their faces anymore, because they'd already lost it somewhere else.

Thailand, the hub of lost faces, with the tendency to never get them back. Absolutely faceless. Aehh priceless.--

[DavisH]

It doedn't matter what the scores were. The matter of fact is that nothing will be done. Teachers fail and everyone laughs.

The national average for matayom 6 (grade 12) students this year in the Onet English test was less than a pass. I cannot confirm the true average but have heard that it was around 32%.

That test was taken months ago. What has happened?

32% on a multi choice is pathetic. 25% is obtainable by random guessing! Science and maths scores are even lower.

[DavisH]

Close the schools for a year. Get all the teachers up to standard. English C1 at least. All that can't do it should not be teachers. Maybe they can assist classes. But the older teachers assisting the younger ones? In Thailand?

How could they learn all the used vocabulary, including the use of the right grammar and sentence structure, that's being used in C 1 level, within one year?

Send all who want to become English teachers to an English speaking country, let them study for a BA and when they come back they do speak and write proper English.

And they won't lose their faces anymore, because they'd already lost it somewhere else.

Thailand, the hub of lost faces, with the tendency to never get them back. Absolutely faceless. Aehh priceless.--

A BA would be a pipe dream. The government should do initial testing and assess potential. Thai teachers showing potential should be sent overseas for 1 - 3 month intensive english where they will mix with non-Thais. That's the only way to get them to learn quickly.

[SlyAnimal]

I think ONET English scores were 19% 2 years ago I think (ONET is a 5 answer multiple choice format, so everyone did slightly worse than guessing lol. The average might be skewed though by some students not attempting to answer any questions because they're afraid to get them wrong lol).

Also I checked with the teachers at my school, and out of I think 12 teachers, we had:

1x B2 (Head of English dept)

3x B1 (Maybe 1 more, I haven't checked with that teacher)

Most of the rest were A2, although "more than 2" got A1 (I didn't want to ask for names / get too specific, as it's quite embarrassing for the teachers who got A1).

From talking to them, it sounded like the vocabulary was the most difficult part of the test, and although they found the listening sections difficult, it was difficult because they didn't know some of the vocabulary which was used. Also based on when they were doing some practice tests last week, it seemed like they also maybe have difficulty recalling the vocabulary in the right situations, which is something that could probably be corrected by simply using correct English more regularly so that they're used to forming sentences.

[lostinisaan]

I think ONET English scores were 19% 2 years ago I think (ONET is a 5 answer multiple choice format, so everyone did slightly worse than guessing lol. The average might be skewed though by some students not attempting to answer any questions because they're afraid to get them wrong lol).

Also I checked with the teachers at my school, and out of I think 12 teachers, we had:

1x B2 (Head of English dept)

3x B1 (Maybe 1 more, I haven't checked with that teacher)

Most of the rest were A2, although "more than 2" got A1 (I didn't want to ask for names / get too specific, as it's quite embarrassing for the teachers who got A1).

From talking to them, it sounded like the vocabulary was the most difficult part of the test, and although they found the listening sections difficult, it was difficult because they didn't know some of the vocabulary which was used. Also based on when they were doing some practice tests last week, it seemed like they also maybe have difficulty recalling the vocabulary in the right situations, which is something that could probably be corrected by simply using correct English more regularly so that they're used to forming sentences.

When they told me who "only scored A 1 in a very gossip like way, by guys who only scored A 2, I've heard a very good excuse and face saving method of our grade six English teacher, the one who just recently received her Master's in English, of course Thesis written by a "farang".

She said that she had to help her male colleague, because he didn't know how to use a computer.

That's why she scored so low. But she could have bla bla bla..but i saw her Google translated Thesis, she'd taken from the web. Holy buffalo dung.

The guy who finally wrote the Thesis received only 2 k for a lot of work and will never ever do such rectal stuff again. Never. Full stop.

A teacher with a Master;s degree in English, who scored A 1 in a CEFR test makes perfect sense. Just wondering how that will work out with her pay raise, etc...

[casualbiker]

So LII interesting to know that you will never to thesis writing for Thai teachers again!!

[aarontendo]

The guy who finally wrote the Thesis received only 2 k for a lot of work and will never ever do such rectal stuff again. Never. Full stop.

God damn...2k baht for a thesis. I hope to God people aren't doing this sort of thing.

[Somtamnication]

For those who taught at these seminars, what tools would you use to teach and for how long?

[smiles793]

Hi @sly, the whole area of developing standards for language users and teachers is an interesting one. And by the way, I wasn’t aware that Thai teachers of English had a requirement to be tested against the CEFR criteria, so that’s interesting news .

It seems to me that a teacher of any language needs 3 things – i. the ability to teach ii. the ability to explain the target language iii. the ability to use the target language. These 3 things are independent of each other, though they may be connected. For example even many native teachers of any language score high on iii and low on ii, and i varies enormously.

Specifically wrt CEFR: this was developed in the EU to assist the assessment of internal migrant labour, and depends upon the “can do” paradigm, ie day-to-day transactions, which may be less relevant for school children and their teachers in ASEAN than migrant workers in the EU. The main weakness of CEFR imho is that it comprises only 6 levels; IELTS at 9 (or 8 if you like) is too light, but 6 is inadequate. Nevertheless CEFR does represent a major step forward in L2 assessment, and it's greatly to the credit of the Thai MoE that they are employing such standards in assessment.

Let me quote the criteria for CEFR B2

• Can understand the main ideas of complex text on both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in his/her field of specialization.
• Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party.
• Can produce clear, detailed text on a wide range of subjects and explain a viewpoint on a topical issue giving the advantages and disadvantages of various options.

Based on this I would say that B2 is more than high enough for non-native teachers of school-children in ASEAN; and B1 is probably high enough in most circumstances; A2 I'm sure would be fine for most Pathom levels.

I would reserve C1 and C2 for degree and post-grad level. And it's sad but true that many native speakers never get to C2 anyway !

Anyway, thanks for your post, cheers.

Edited May 31, 2015 by smiles793