NATO believes Russia can take over Kiev, Baltic countries within 2 days

[lovetotravel]

Ukraine and the Baltic are nervous for a good reason. So much for Russia blaming everybody else for provoking the problems there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/27/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-military-idUSKBN0OC2K820150527

Exclusive: Russia masses heavy firepower on border with Ukraine - witness

Russia's army is massing troops and hundreds of pieces of weaponry including mobile rocket launchers, tanks and artillery at a makeshift base near the border with Ukraine, a Reuters reporter saw this week.

Many of the vehicles have number plates and identifying marks removed while many of the servicemen had taken insignia off their fatigues. As such, they match the appearance of some of the forces spotted in eastern Ukraine, which Kiev and its Western allies allege are covert Russian detachments.

The scene at the base on the Kuzminsky firing range, around 50 km (30 miles) from the border, offers some of the clearest evidence to date of what appeared to be a concerted Russian military build-up in the area.

I am sure it has nothing to do with NATO build up along Russian borders .

What NATO troops in Ukraine? Please be specific.

[konying]

So I guess the massed troops which are 30 miles within Russia and witnessed by a Reuters reporter in Russia, are not there either.

My drift was................Russia has no troops in the Ukraine, well thats what they say. Of course us with half a brain know they have.

Then the general and U.S. Do not have even half?

Because according to this OP Russia could take Kiev and all the Baltic States in 2 days.

So if Russian troops are in Ukraine, then either general is talking crap or there are no Russian troops in Ukraine . Can not sit on 2 chairs with 1 ass

[does]

Schott, if this removal is my comment on the US/Granada/failed states, I assume you missed the ironic intention. It was meant to redicule the mantra about Russia invading the Baltics. I reworded it in my reply to Dannyboy.

Off-topic posts and replies removed. The topic is not about the US.

[konying]

Ukraine and the Baltic are nervous for a good reason. So much for Russia blaming everybody else for provoking the problems there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/27/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-military-idUSKBN0OC2K820150527

Exclusive: Russia masses heavy firepower on border with Ukraine - witness

Russia's army is massing troops and hundreds of pieces of weaponry including mobile rocket launchers, tanks and artillery at a makeshift base near the border with Ukraine, a Reuters reporter saw this week.

Many of the vehicles have number plates and identifying marks removed while many of the servicemen had taken insignia off their fatigues. As such, they match the appearance of some of the forces spotted in eastern Ukraine, which Kiev and its Western allies allege are covert Russian detachments.

The scene at the base on the Kuzminsky firing range, around 50 km (30 miles) from the border, offers some of the clearest evidence to date of what appeared to be a concerted Russian military build-up in the area.

I am sure it has nothing to do with NATO build up along Russian borders .

What NATO troops in Ukraine? Please be specific.

Please be specific where and when I said in Ukraine?

[Pakboong]

So I guess the massed troops which are 30 miles within Russia and witnessed by a Reuters reporter in Russia, are not there either.

My drift was................Russia has no troops in the Ukraine, well thats what they say. Of course us with half a brain know they have.

I certainly do not want to pick on a man with only half a brain. That simply would not be fair.

[Asheron]

Dannyboy, the US bashers are perhaps not aware that all those stories about Russia invading the Baltics is probably scare mongering by NATO.

Think about it - why would Russia invade the Baltic states? With Crimea and Ukraine, Russian action had some rational - especially from the Russian point of view. But the Balkans? That would be opening a can of worms Russia doesn't need.

Repeating the mantra that Russia is about to invade the Balkans is as silly as claiming the US will invade Iran.

Hmmmmm, Where Did All The American Bashers Go, Awfully Quiet Out There...

Baltic states as in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania... not the area before know as Yugoslavia. And yes, Russia very much still see the baltic countries as their land. And each of them have a large minority russian citizens and only think stopping russian troops atm marching in is that they are NATO members unlike Georgia where they used the excuse of "protecting russian citizens".

[lovetotravel]

I guess it's a good thing new general is not scare mongering;)

Tell that to the citizens of the Crimea, Georgia, Moldova, Chechnya, etc.

And of course the many other countries that have been invaded by Russia AND annexed over the years. Neighbors have a very good reason to be nervous.

[lovetotravel]

Dannyboy, the US bashers are perhaps not aware that all those stories about Russia invading the Baltics is probably scare mongering by NATO.

Think about it - why would Russia invade the Baltic states? With Crimea and Ukraine, Russian action had some rational - especially from the Russian point of view. But the Balkans? That would be opening a can of worms Russia doesn't need.

Repeating the mantra that Russia is about to invade the Balkans is as silly as claiming the US will invade Iran.

Hmmmmm, Where Did All The American Bashers Go, Awfully Quiet Out There...

Baltic states as in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania... not the area before know as Yugoslavia. And yes, Russia very much still see the baltic countries as their land. And each of them have a large minority russian citizens and only think stopping russian troops atm marching in is that they are NATO members unlike Georgia where they used the excuse of "protecting russian citizens".

Interesting article about the Baltic states and Russia's increasingly aggressive actions:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2015/02/11/where-will-russia-strike-next/

[konying]

I guess it's a good thing new general is not scare mongering;)

Tell that to the citizens of the Crimea, Georgia, Moldova, Chechnya, etc.

And of course the many other countries that have been invaded by Russia AND annexed over the years. Neighbors have a very good reason to be nervous.

Do not go there, way out of your depth.

Last time I checked Crimea was not a country to have citizens and the residents of Crimea are super happy to be part of Russia , over 90% I believe from memory

[micmichd]

Ukraine and the Baltic are nervous for a good reason. So much for Russia blaming everybody else for provoking the problems there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/27/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-military-idUSKBN0OC2K820150527

Exclusive: Russia masses heavy firepower on border with Ukraine - witness

Russia's army is massing troops and hundreds of pieces of weaponry including mobile rocket launchers, tanks and artillery at a makeshift base near the border with Ukraine, a Reuters reporter saw this week.

Many of the vehicles have number plates and identifying marks removed while many of the servicemen had taken insignia off their fatigues. As such, they match the appearance of some of the forces spotted in eastern Ukraine, which Kiev and its Western allies allege are covert Russian detachments.

The scene at the base on the Kuzminsky firing range, around 50 km (30 miles) from the border, offers some of the clearest evidence to date of what appeared to be a concerted Russian military build-up in the area.

I am sure it has nothing to do with NATO build up along Russian borders .

What NATO troops in Ukraine? Please be specific.

Please be specific where and when I said in Ukraine?

This is about Ukraine (which is not a NATO member), isn't it?
And about EU aka Germany who want cheap gas from Ukraine.
Do you really believe that anyone in these countries would give a damn about the people that live there?

[lovetotravel]

I guess it's a good thing new general is not scare mongering;)

Tell that to the citizens of the Crimea, Georgia, Moldova, Chechnya, etc.

And of course the many other countries that have been invaded by Russia AND annexed over the years. Neighbors have a very good reason to be nervous.

Do not go there, way out of your depth.

Last time I checked Crimea was not a country to have citizens and the residents of Crimea are super happy to be part of Russia , over 90% I believe from memory

Just like 90% of Thai citizens are happy with the work of the junta here?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/civilresistance/peter-ackerman-maciej-bartkowski/challenging-annexation-in-crimea-referendum-that-wa

Within a day after the invasion of Crimea on February 28, in a closed session of the Crimean parliament and under Russian military ‘protection,’ Sergey Aksyonov was annointed as the head of the new government. Yet just four years before, his pro-Russian party ‘Russian Unity’ had won only 4% of the votes in Crimean parliamentary elections. To cover this with the fig leaf of political sanction, a popular referendum was hurriedly staged only 18 days after Putin’s penetration of the province. It was as close a resemblance to a political “shot-gun marriage” as recent history offers – and as the following evidence reflects.

.......

Although the referendum was widely boycotted by most of the province’s native Tatar population and by pro-Ukraine voters, according to many reports, the reported outcome of the referendum was that 96.8% of ballots had been cast for the first question, with voter turn-out declared to be 83%. This approaches the famous level of support achieved by Saddam Hussein when he first stood for election as president of Iraq in 1995; a reported 99.96% of voters embraced him.

..............

According to the 2001 official Crimean census, the population consisted of 58% ethnic Russians, 24% Ukrainians, 12% Tatars, and 6% others (Jews, Armenians, Greeks, Belarusians, etc.), and there were no major changes in demographic composition in the ensuing 10 years. For the supposed referendum result­­ in both the percentage of the winning vote and total turn-out to have been accurate, all ethnic Russians would have had to vote in favour of question #1, plus virtually the entire Ukrainian minority in Crimea, despite the likelihood that a substantial number of Ukrainians would have voted to remain with Ukraine.

............

There is more evidence. An opinion survey conducted in Crimea in spring 2013 (by The Gallup Organization, Baltic Surveys and IRI, with USAID support) showed that in May 2013, 53% of those polled supported Crimean autonomy within Ukraine (compared to 49% in 2011) and only 29% supported secession and joining Russia (compared to 33% in 2011).

[konying]

I guess it's a good thing new general is not scare mongering;)

Tell that to the citizens of the Crimea, Georgia, Moldova, Chechnya, etc.

And of course the many other countries that have been invaded by Russia AND annexed over the years. Neighbors have a very good reason to be nervous.

Do not go there, way out of your depth.

Last time I checked Crimea was not a country to have citizens and the residents of Crimea are super happy to be part of Russia , over 90% I believe from memory

Just like 90% of Thai citizens are happy with the work of the junta here?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/civilresistance/peter-ackerman-maciej-bartkowski/challenging-annexation-in-crimea-referendum-that-wa

Within a day after the invasion of Crimea on February 28, in a closed session of the Crimean parliament and under Russian military protection, Sergey Aksyonov was annointed as the head of the new government. Yet just four years before, his pro-Russian party Russian Unity had won only 4% of the votes in Crimean parliamentary elections. To cover this with the fig leaf of political sanction, a popular referendum was hurriedly staged only 18 days after Putins penetration of the province. It was as close a resemblance to a political shot-gun marriage as recent history offers and as the following evidence reflects.

.......

Although the referendum was widely boycotted by most of the provinces native Tatar population and by pro-Ukraine voters, according to many reports, the reported outcome of the referendum was that 96.8% of ballots had been cast for the first question, with voter turn-out declared to be 83%. This approaches the famous level of support achieved by Saddam Hussein when he first stood for election as president of Iraq in 1995; a reported 99.96% of voters embraced him.

..............

According to the 2001 official Crimean census, the population consisted of 58% ethnic Russians, 24% Ukrainians, 12% Tatars, and 6% others (Jews, Armenians, Greeks, Belarusians, etc.), and there were no major changes in demographic composition in the ensuing 10 years. For the supposed referendum result­­ in both the percentage of the winning vote and total turn-out to have been accurate, all ethnic Russians would have had to vote in favour of question #1, plus virtually the entire Ukrainian minority in Crimea, despite the likelihood that a substantial number of Ukrainians would have voted to remain with Ukraine.

............

There is more evidence. An opinion survey conducted in Crimea in spring 2013 (by The Gallup Organization, Baltic Surveys and IRI, with USAID support) showed that in May 2013, 53% of those polled supported Crimean autonomy within Ukraine (compared to 49% in 2011) and only 29% supported secession and joining Russia (compared to 33% in 2011).

Your point being? Without referencing to yet another piece of US propaganda?

Considering US unwelcome in Crimea , one would think they would not have access to any information, even more so statistics.

But do not let that get in a way of your agenda

[StasD]

I will not surprise if this man,Czech General Petr Pavel, will fall would down from a window screaming "Russians come!!!"

Edited May 28, 2015 by StasD

[lovetotravel]

Your point being? Without referencing to yet another piece of US propaganda?

Considering US unwelcome in Crimea , one would think they would not have access to any information, even more so statistics.

But do not let that get in a way of your agenda

No agenda other than trying to show the truth. Saying 90% of residents there are super happy is not true. Impossible. And many of the stats are from quite some time ago.

[wileycoyote]

Sadly ,it is so true.

But it these times of austerity ,which politicians are going to alienate their public by increasing spending on defence.

Yes ,the USA is set to continue to Isolationist

[micmichd]

Better Isolationist than World Police No. 1

[konying]

I guess it's a good thing new general is not scare mongering;)

Tell that to the citizens of the Crimea, Georgia, Moldova, Chechnya, etc.

And of course the many other countries that have been invaded by Russia AND annexed over the years. Neighbors have a very good reason to be nervous.

Do not go there, way out of your depth.

Last time I checked Crimea was not a country to have citizens and the residents of Crimea are super happy to be part of Russia , over 90% I believe from memory

You had a chat with them..?

I wonder where I would want to live ? In a country where my wages are double , taxes are half, better education and medical or the one which half of the time does not even pay pensions or supplies basic necessities.

I would really have to think about it.

Oh hold, they also held referendum and no protests took place , no doubt US would have loved to see some , but did not happen. Instead they held huge celebrations with fireworks .

[balo]

Didnt we learn anything from WW2 ? Do we want to start all over again ? Nato worries too much.

[gigman]

Somehow not many here see the "big picture" it will include all of the world.....and it is coming faster then predicted....

Maybe we should look in who's interest will be to change the world under "New World Order "

to reduce population ... but this time in gigantic amount that's their priority

Those who put many countries in huge debt are "pulling strings"....

Deja vu ??

[micmichd]

Those who think they can run an economy with machines / computers and some slaves for personal services?

Geopolitically by control over land, and biopolitically by control over bodies and minds

Edited May 28, 2015 by micmichd

[konying]

Somehow not many here see the "big picture" it will include all of the world.....and it is coming faster then predicted....

Maybe we should look in who's interest will be to change the world under "New World Order "

to reduce population ... but this time in gigantic amount that's their priority

Those who put many countries in huge debt are "pulling strings"....

Deja vu ??

Actually it is those who ARE In huge debt are the ones pulling the strings.

How else does one pay off debt which simply impossible to be paid off

Unless with a help of little war, some arms deals to supply those in war and perhaps debt forgiveness to assist in that war.

[wwest5829]

I guess the Germans, French, Italians, Spanish, and British ought to be preparing to do something to defend the EU, then. This one is not an American problem. Otherwise, I'd be developing an appetite for borscht if I was European.

Agree. I fully support those regionally facing issues stand on the front line efforts to contain. In the ME, if the Arabs face a threat, they take the defense. If the South China Seas countries are concerned with China unilaterally declaring 80-90% as their own, it is up to those countries to collectively face China. In Europe, the European concerned nations join to face the threat. What role for the U.S.? A loyal supportive ally but no more taking a lead role and lead expense. We are long past the post WW II Cold War. For the sake of all let us face a needed change of U.S. expectations.

[Barin]

Russia is running around with portable crematorys, to burn the soldiers bodies immediately to hide their losses on Ukranian Soil, reported by mainstream media today.

I do appreciate your sarcasm!

[Asheron]

Better Isolationist than World Police No. 1

What's the alternative? Russia? China? Because it's a pretty undisputed fact that when a void, in anything, happens something will take its place.

[does]

Interesting article about cause and effect of Russian policy:

http://rt.com/op-edge/254213-nato-eu-russia-economy-swift/

Dannyboy, the US bashers are perhaps not aware that all those stories about Russia invading the Baltics is probably scare mongering by NATO.

Think about it - why would Russia invade the Baltic states? With Crimea and Ukraine, Russian action had some rational - especially from the Russian point of view. But the Balkans? That would be opening a can of worms Russia doesn't need.

Repeating the mantra that Russia is about to invade the Balkans is as silly as claiming the US will invade Iran.

Hmmmmm, Where Did All The American Bashers Go, Awfully Quiet Out There...

Baltic states as in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania... not the area before know as Yugoslavia. And yes, Russia very much still see the baltic countries as their land. And each of them have a large minority russian citizens and only think stopping russian troops atm marching in is that they are NATO members unlike Georgia where they used the excuse of "protecting russian citizens".

Interesting article about the Baltic states and Russia's increasingly aggressive actions:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2015/02/11/where-will-russia-strike-next/

[micmichd]

Better Isolationist than World Police No. 1

What's the alternative? Russia? China? Because it's a pretty undisputed fact that when a void, in anything, happens something will take its place.

A political system where life is valued higher than money. The UN.

[Asheron]

Better Isolationist than World Police No. 1

What's the alternative? Russia? China? Because it's a pretty undisputed fact that when a void, in anything, happens something will take its place.

A political system where life is valued higher than money. The UN.

UN has like twice the amount of members that are dictatorships compared to democracies. And even if was 100% democratic members it would still be worthless to do anything at all as before they even took a decision any kind of conflict would have ended about a decade ago. And are you telling me that if Russia, you know a veto member, invaded nation X that they would vote for others to go to war with them?

[Loptr]

So I guess the massed troops which are 30 miles within Russia and witnessed by a Reuters reporter in Russia, are not there either. Unless of course, the plan was to sneak these massed troops (enough to threaten Nato) across the border into East Ukraine at a later date so they can join up with the troops already fighting with the Eastern Ukrainians.

It would not be the first time that Reuters made false claims, now would it?

Actions and words folks, actions and words... This is more saber rattling by NATO in an attempt to maintain their ludicrous position in the Ukraine fiasco, by shouting fire when there is none... They have done this over and over again for the last year... If Putin wanted to take Ukraine, he would have done so... The point is that he hasn't and won't, even with NATO poking Putin in the ribs by holding military training maneuvers on Russia's border... No, Putin is playing the long game and has the rest of the BRICS behind him, as evidenced by both Chinese and Indian troops marching in the May Day parade in Moscow... The end game is the collapse of the EU, one country at a time, with them joining the Eurasian trade block... Greece will be the first... The EU is done and is only awaiting the first domino to fall, which will most likely be GRexit, which will cause the 26 trillion Euro derivatives chain to collapse...

[Mudcrab]

Let's not forget China, they could take over all on SE. Asia in less then 4 days , who would stop them? And that includes all of Indonesia, and the PI.

You forgot about the Aussie airforce...hang on..wait a minute...the hanglider's got a tear in its wing...anyone got some sticky tape?

Them we'll show em!

And we'll turn back the boats..er..um..aircraft carriers.

Bugger it...want to buy some more land comrade?

[Mudcrab]

I guess the Germans, French, Italians, Spanish, and British ought to be preparing to do something to defend the EU, then. This one is not an American problem. Otherwise, I'd be developing an appetite for borscht if I was European.

Which bit about NATO did you miss?

It's a NATO problem and although it may surprise you, America is a member of NATO.

NATO was designed for just this. The old USSR and it's puppet East European states invading the West. Now it's the Russian Federation and Russian colonists in neighboring countries. Trouble is most NATO countries scaled down their armed services after the fall of the Warsaw Pact, return to democracy in East Europe and the USSR break up.

Maybe their intelligence services ought to have wondered why the Russians didn't scale back.

Putin knows this, and he sees how preoccupied the West are in other parts of the world. Thug, bully and chancer - but a very dangerous one.

Here is what YOU are missing. I, like a lot of Americans, am sick and tired of hearing whining from Europeans who steadfastly REFUSE to pull their own weight. I'll be damned if I am going to spend American lives and money (Treaty or no damned Treaty) to save a bunch of lazy ingrates who have spent much of the past 40 years condemning the US and denying the danger from the east. Anybody who doesn't like it can smoke on something else for a while.

Fortunately there will be much wiser persons than you making those decisions.