Thailand Brit murder suspects 'still waiting' on evidence review

[catsanddogs]

The police identified running man as Nomsod. The police then said running man wasn't Nomson. Now you need to accept what JC is saying and believe the police. As to what version you believe, how someone that looked like someone I.e Nomsod all of a sudden look like some one who isn't Nomsod I.e a Burmese maybe only a member of the RTP can explain that.

Maybe that's why it took the RTP so long to arrest the B2. After all, they did DNA test 100's, didn't they? Rounding up all the migrants maybe trying to find one that resembled Nomsod which Win seems to with his hair and physique.

[boomerangutang]

The police identified running man as Nomsod. The police then said running man wasn't Nomson. Now you need to accept what JC is saying and believe the police. As to what version you believe, how someone that looked like someone I.e Nomsod all of a sudden look like some one who isn't Nomsod I.e a Burmese maybe only a member of the RTP can explain that.

Maybe that's why it took the RTP so long to arrest the B2. After all, they did DNA test 100's, didn't they? Rounding up all the migrants maybe trying to find one that resembled Nomsod which Win seems to with his hair and physique.

I think the 3rd Burmese, MM (Muang Muang) is the one the police arrested - because he physically resembled 'Running Man'. He's a bit taller and has the bushy hair-do. However MM seems to have turned 'states witness' since then, though we won't know until the trial gets going.

[catsanddogs]

The local Norfolk paper -

http://www.edp24.co.uk/home/search

• Evidence will be re-examined ahead of Thai trial into murder of Hemsby student Hannah Witheridge - April 30, 2015

  

  Eastern Daily Press; Great Yarmouth Mercury; Norwich Evening News - Courts; Crime; Death

  Lawyers representing two men accused of murdering Hemsby student Hannah Witheridge and a fellow British backpacker said a fair trial for them is “more likely than expected” after a court ordered key evidence to be re-examined.

  ...and a month later ...

  • Lawyers’ concern over key evidence in trial of men accused of killing Hemsby woman Hannah Witheridge in Thailand - May 31, 2015

    

    Eastern Daily Press; Great Yarmouth Mercury; Norwich Evening News - Crime

    Lawyers for two men charged with the murder of a Hemsby woman in Thailand are “deeply concerned” that key forensic evidence will not be re-examined before the trial.

[AleG]

The police identified running man as Nomsod. The police then said running man wasn't Nomson. Now you need to accept what JC is saying and believe the police. As to what version you believe, how someone that looked like someone I.e Nomsod all of a sudden look like some one who isn't Nomsod I.e a Burmese maybe only a member of the RTP can explain that.

Maybe that's why it took the RTP so long to arrest the B2. After all, they did DNA test 100's, didn't they? Rounding up all the migrants maybe trying to find one that resembled Nomsod which Win seems to with his hair and physique.

"Win seems to with his hair and physique."

Or perhaps he was the man running on that footage... nah, too plausible. Must had been that other guy who was hundreds of kilometers away.

[catsanddogs]

The police identified running man as Nomsod. The police then said running man wasn't Nomson. Now you need to accept what JC is saying and believe the police. As to what version you believe, how someone that looked like someone I.e Nomsod all of a sudden look like some one who isn't Nomsod I.e a Burmese maybe only a member of the RTP can explain that.

Maybe that's why it took the RTP so long to arrest the B2. After all, they did DNA test 100's, didn't they? Rounding up all the migrants maybe trying to find one that resembled Nomsod which Win seems to with his hair and physique.

"Win seems to with his hair and physique."

Or perhaps he was the man running on that footage... nah, too plausible. Must had been that other guy who was hundreds of kilometers away.

Yes perhaps he was the man running on the footage. But wouldn't you think after 9 months the RTP would have announced that? After Mon saying it was himself, nothing else has been made public about running man. The prosecution had better be able to prove who that man is - they've had enough time and no doubt enough money. The RTP want us to believe the did a 'perfect job' so surely the more hard facts they can give the public the more it will convince them that they have the right people in prison and their reputation can be redeemed (somewhat).

[JLCrab]

Say Hi! to Mr. McKanna for me next time you see him.

[IslandLover]

Let me help you; he is talking about Thai PBS, the broadcaster, the one that produced an entire segment proving that your theories are wrong:

Happy to oblige.

Whether or not the video of NS walking through the apt lobby is real is fast becoming a moot point. The reason: it can be shown that a desperate young man with money could readily get from the island to Bkk in much less time (1 to 2 hours less), than the time between the crime and the video. Will RTP investigators want to pursue that avenue? Of course not. They won't want to consider anything which might implicate a person they're trying to shield.

I still haven't got an answer to a simple Q: is there any video showing NS entering the lobby that weekend (specifically; Sunday evening/night or Monday morn)? It would be interesting to see that video and its time stamp.

Simple answer to your question: No, because it doesn't exist (draw your own conclusions here).

[cumgranosalum]

So you are comparing real life CCTV footage with an ad deliberately shot and framed to be deceiving. Brilliant.

Well, who knows maybe it is like that and if the CCTV camera had been pointing just a little bit differently we would be seeing Nomsod walking into the beach at Koh Tao...

Yes - I would have thought you understood the principle..... Sadly it is an example of how people are incapable of distinguishing between faith and sceptically. people are useless at interpreting what they see......however the image is made...

You do a little research or even Google and you'll find plenty of examples of how the eyes deceive...especially when connected to a uncritical brain.

Can you use your critical brain to articulate what is the problem with the CCTV footage of Nomsod in Bangkok on the 15th?

Sadly you seem to have missed the analogy here - the video is about how we "think - i have posted several times that the "evidence" here is irrelevant as it is the procedures that are questionable-----it has rendered any evidence worthless no matter how convincing it seems to some.

[JLCrab]

Some people feel it is their right of free speech to come on this website on a near daily basis to impugn the integrity of the Thai Judicial System. This is a private website. If the website management does not want to service as the medium for speculative but unproven charges of collusion and corruption -- especially for events that have not yet occurred -- on behalf the the Thai Government, persons making such charges may have the right to do so but that does not mean they have the right to do it here.

[fritzzz25]

Some people feel it is their right of free speech to come on this website on a near daily basis to impugn the integrity of the Thai Judicial System. This is a private website. If the website management does not want to service as the medium for speculative but unproven charges of collusion and corruption -- especially for events that have not yet occurred -- on behalf the the Thai Government, persons making such charges may have the right to do so but that does not mean they have the right to do it here.

Nobody is bashing the judicial system. People are just reiterating the incompetence and corruption that is KNOWN to exist within the RTP, along with the known existence of paying off the police to "look the other way".

[boomerangutang]

"Win seems to with his hair and physique."

Or perhaps he was the man running on that footage... nah, too plausible. Must had been that other guy who was hundreds of kilometers away.

Is Bkk hundreds of Km's away? I don't know, but I calculated that it would take a determined person about 3.5 hours to get from KT to Bkk on any monday morning, if leaving the island with a fistful of baht by 5:30 am - a half hour after the crime ended. I agree, neither of the B2 fit the appearance of Running Man, not by a long shot. I don't think even the RTP or the prosecution (in their efforts to frame the B2) have floated the idea of a resemblance, have they? Running Man is tall (for an Asian), both the B2 are short. If the RTP try and claim Running Man as being one of the B2, then RTP manipulators are even more off-base and desperate than I thought.

Say Hi! to Mr. McKanna for me next time you see him.

Is that supposed to be witty or funny? If I was in McKeana's shoes, I'd probably run and hide also - grateful, as I'm sure he is, to be far away from Thailand. There are some seriously nasty people on that island (more tourists murdered there in one week, than in all of Burma annually), and if they're rich and determined enough, a r-t ticket to Europe (for an accomplice, for example) would not be too expensive an investment, if it meant keeping some friends and family members out of prison.

[jdinasia]

How does one calculate timely needed to travel with know if the distance?

[JLCrab]

"Win seems to with his hair and physique."

Or perhaps he was the man running on that footage... nah, too plausible. Must had been that other guy who was hundreds of kilometers away.

Is Bkk hundreds of Km's away? I don't know, but I calculated that it would take a determined person about 3.5 hours to get from KT to Bkk on any monday morning, if leaving the island with a fistful of baht by 5:30 am - a half hour after the crime ended. I agree, neither of the B2 fit the appearance of Running Man, not by a long shot. I don't think even the RTP or the prosecution (in their efforts to frame the B2) have floated the idea of a resemblance, have they? Running Man is tall (for an Asian), both the B2 are short. If the RTP try and claim Running Man as being one of the B2, then RTP manipulators are even more off-base and desperate than I thought.

Say Hi! to Mr. McKanna for me next time you see him.

Is that supposed to be witty or funny? If I was in McKeana's shoes, I'd probably run and hide also - grateful, as I'm sure he is, to be far away from Thailand. There are some seriously nasty people on that island (more tourists murdered there in one week, than in all of Burma annually), and if they're rich and determined enough, a r-t ticket to Europe (for an accomplice, for example) would not be too expensive an investment, if it meant keeping some friends and family members out of prison.

No -- the poster just spoke so much of what the guy did do or didn't do without any maybe's or might have's that I figured he must have some first hand knowledge of the situation

Edited June 14, 2015 by JLCrab

[boomerangutang]

How does one calculate timely needed to travel with know if the distance?

You may want to re-write that Q. I can't decipher what it means.

[JLCrab]

Some people feel it is their right of free speech to come on this website on a near daily basis to impugn the integrity of the Thai Judicial System. This is a private website. If the website management does not want to service as the medium for speculative but unproven charges of collusion and corruption -- especially for events that have not yet occurred -- on behalf the the Thai Government, persons making such charges may have the right to do so but that does not mean they have the right to do it here.

Nobody is bashing the judicial system. People are just reiterating the incompetence and corruption that is KNOWN to exist within the RTP, along with the known existence of paying off the police to "look the other way".

It is not a matter of whether the Thai Officialdom is corrupt or incompetent. It is just a matter to what extent you have the 'right' to post about it here.

... but in general, I would avoid marsupials.

Edited June 14, 2015 by JLCrab

[thailandchilli]

Some people feel it is their right of free speech to come on this website on a near daily basis to impugn the integrity of the Thai Judicial System. This is a private website. If the website management does not want to service as the medium for speculative but unproven charges of collusion and corruption -- especially for events that have not yet occurred -- on behalf the the Thai Government, persons making such charges may have the right to do so but that does not mean they have the right to do it here.

Nobody is bashing the judicial system. People are just reiterating the incompetence and corruption that is KNOWN to exist within the RTP, along with the known existence of paying off the police to "look the other way".

It is not a matter of whether the Thai Officialdom is corrupt or incompetent. It is just a matter to what extent you have the 'right' to post about it here.

I think you'll find thats the mods job to point out, but to coin a repeated phrase on here, this is a chat room, the topic is Thai Officialdom that has been posted by TV to discuss or at least the reults of it, thats exactly whats happening a discussion is taking place, if people step to far let the mods decide or you can carry on with your warnings and other entertainment that you love so

[AleG]

"Win seems to with his hair and physique."

Or perhaps he was the man running on that footage... nah, too plausible. Must had been that other guy who was hundreds of kilometers away.

Is Bkk hundreds of Km's away? I don't know, but I calculated that it would take a determined person about 3.5 hours to get from KT to Bkk on any monday morning, if leaving the island with a fistful of baht by 5:30 am - a half hour after the crime ended. I agree, neither of the B2 fit the appearance of Running Man, not by a long shot. I don't think even the RTP or the prosecution (in their efforts to frame the B2) have floated the idea of a resemblance, have they? Running Man is tall (for an Asian), both the B2 are short. If the RTP try and claim Running Man as being one of the B2, then RTP manipulators are even more off-base and desperate than I thought.

Say Hi! to Mr. McKanna for me next time you see him.

Is that supposed to be witty or funny? If I was in McKeana's shoes, I'd probably run and hide also - grateful, as I'm sure he is, to be far away from Thailand. There are some seriously nasty people on that island (more tourists murdered there in one week, than in all of Burma annually), and if they're rich and determined enough, a r-t ticket to Europe (for an accomplice, for example) would not be too expensive an investment, if it meant keeping some friends and family members out of prison.

You calculated the time it would take without knowing how far it is? Great job.

There's a problem though, that you are assiduously avoiding, the video from the CCTV footage doesn't show him entering the lobby, using the elevators or walking the hallway to his apartment from before the time of the murders until hours later.

Then of course there is the nagging fact that there is absolutely zero evidence that he was on the island, let alone he had any involvement in the murders; that is except the speculation of armchair detectives that really, really want the son of a rich man to be the culprit because that would make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

All that would be just sad, but there's a relatively new and nasty strain of people that use social media to persecute and harass people, some go as far as harassing the families of murdered children because they must be in it somehow.

I'm sure those people think they are champions for a great cause too.

[sartoric]

So why wasn't the video footage of him arriving at the apartment provided ? Surely they could have gone back far enough to establish an arrival time. Unless that was inconvenient...

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Inconvenient....

Yes,

Awkward is another

The girlfriends social media outburst about his going incommunicado, after the false alibi surfaced about him being in pattaya, but he wasn't anywhere to be found that entire weekend until he strolled out the lobby door

Empty handed

[boomerangutang]

You calculated the time it would take without knowing how far it is? Great job.

If a person looks at a bus, train or flight schedule, that person can determine how long that trip will take. The schedule might indicate: depart: 3 pm arrive: 6 pm. The traveler can then deduce that the trip will take 3 hours. No need to know distance, or even to look at a map. Amazing what modern people can deduce when reading a transport schedule, isn't it?

There's a problem though, that you are assiduously avoiding, the video from the CCTV footage doesn't show him entering the lobby, using the elevators or walking the hallway to his apartment from before the time of the murders until hours later.

Are coming over the side of reason all of a sudden? Yes, that's one of the questions I've been posting several times in the past few days. Is there any CCTV showing NS entering the apartment lobby prior to him supposedly leaving on Monday morning? If so, can we see it?

[boomerangutang]

All that would be just sad, but there's a relatively new and nasty strain of people that use social media to persecute and harass people, some go as far as harassing the families of murdered children because they must be in it somehow.

Here's another Q AleG won't answer: What's worse, having murder suspects get off (scot-free and forever) without proper investigation, or having some people question the methods and motivations of the investigators?

And who is "harassing the families of murdered children?" Are you off your rocker or just grasping at any weird shit in order try and make a point. Shrill is too tame a word to describe how desperate the H's shielders are becoming. We're not beheading Chinese photographers in Syrian deserts either.

[fritzzz25]

"Win seems to with his hair and physique."

Or perhaps he was the man running on that footage... nah, too plausible. Must had been that other guy who was hundreds of kilometers away.

Is Bkk hundreds of Km's away? I don't know, but I calculated that it would take a determined person about 3.5 hours to get from KT to Bkk on any monday morning, if leaving the island with a fistful of baht by 5:30 am - a half hour after the crime ended. I agree, neither of the B2 fit the appearance of Running Man, not by a long shot. I don't think even the RTP or the prosecution (in their efforts to frame the B2) have floated the idea of a resemblance, have they? Running Man is tall (for an Asian), both the B2 are short. If the RTP try and claim Running Man as being one of the B2, then RTP manipulators are even more off-base and desperate than I thought.

Say Hi! to Mr. McKanna for me next time you see him.

Is that supposed to be witty or funny? If I was in McKeana's shoes, I'd probably run and hide also - grateful, as I'm sure he is, to be far away from Thailand. There are some seriously nasty people on that island (more tourists murdered there in one week, than in all of Burma annually), and if they're rich and determined enough, a r-t ticket to Europe (for an accomplice, for example) would not be too expensive an investment, if it meant keeping some friends and family members out of prison.

You calculated the time it would take without knowing how far it is? Great job.

There's a problem though, that you are assiduously avoiding, the video from the CCTV footage doesn't show him entering the lobby, using the elevators or walking the hallway to his apartment from before the time of the murders until hours later.

Then of course there is the nagging fact that there is absolutely zero evidence that he was on the island, let alone he had any involvement in the murders; that is except the speculation of armchair detectives that really, really want the son of a rich man to be the culprit because that would make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

All that would be just sad, but there's a relatively new and nasty strain of people that use social media to persecute and harass people, some go as far as harassing the families of murdered children because they must be in it somehow.

I'm sure those people think they are champions for a great cause too.

We know you have to stick up for the son of your employer..... the horse doesn't even have a skeleton anymore you have beat it for so long.

We will see what the true DNA says.

[AleG]

You calculated the time it would take without knowing how far it is? Great job.

There's a problem though, that you are assiduously avoiding, the video from the CCTV footage doesn't show him entering the lobby, using the elevators or walking the hallway to his apartment from before the time of the murders until hours later.

Then of course there is the nagging fact that there is absolutely zero evidence that he was on the island, let alone he had any involvement in the murders; that is except the speculation of armchair detectives that really, really want the son of a rich man to be the culprit because that would make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

All that would be just sad, but there's a relatively new and nasty strain of people that use social media to persecute and harass people, some go as far as harassing the families of murdered children because they must be in it somehow.

I'm sure those people think they are champions for a great cause too.

We know you have to stick up for the son of your employer..... the horse doesn't even have a skeleton anymore you have beat it for so long.

We will see what the true DNA says.

My employer?

[sartoric]

Can you answer my question AleG ?

[AleG]

If a person looks at a bus, train or flight schedule, that person can determine how long that trip will take. The schedule might indicate: depart: 3 pm arrive: 6 pm. The traveler can then deduce that the trip will take 3 hours. No need to know distance, or even to look at a map. Amazing what modern people can deduce when reading a transport schedule, isn't it?

Are coming over the side of reason all of a sudden? Yes, that's one of the questions I've been posting several times in the past few days. Is there any CCTV showing NS entering the apartment lobby prior to him supposedly leaving on Monday morning? If so, can we see it?

Yes, I understand that you have to simplify things to the point of irrelevance to make sense of things; just because a boat, airplane or bus schedule says it takes X amount of time for a person to go from A to B doesn't mean that is the total amount of time involved in traveling, let alone demonstrate that such thing even happened in the first place.

By the way, prove me wrong that he flew a helicopter from Koh Tao to Bangkok and rappelled down from it into his apartment, because that theory, unlike yours, would explain why he is not seeing getting in.

As for the second part, if you were to see that footage you would declare it fake in a split second, or just invent a scenario that would explain everything away, no evidence to support that scenario notwithstanding.

But if you insists, here's a screen capture from CCTV footage on the 13th.

Now you'll just say that he traveled in the intervening time from Bangkok to Koh Tao, murderered the couple, traveled back and left not a single trace of any of it.

All that would be just sad, but there's a relatively new and nasty strain of people that use social media to persecute and harass people, some go as far as harassing the families of murdered children because they must be in it somehow.

Here's another Q AleG won't answer: What's worse, having murder suspects get off (scot-free and forever) without proper investigation, or having some people question the methods and motivations of the investigators?

And who is "harassing the families of murdered children?" Are you off your rocker or just grasping at any weird shit in order try and make a point. Shrill is too tame a word to describe how desperate the H's shielders are becoming. We're not beheading Chinese photographers in Syrian deserts either.

Your question is nonsensical, you establish a false dichotomy and assume that questioning methods and motivations would equate to the "real" murderers being apprehended.

"And who is "harassing the families of murdered children?""

I posted a video in reference to that, it's amazing how things just fly over your head... and still you think you can solve a murder from behind a computer.

By the way, desperation is to cling to a fantasy world, as you do with your make believe "H's shielders" you repeat like a mantra in order to make sense of things in your head.

[AleG]

Can you answer my question AleG ?

How do you know it wasn't provided?

Furthermore, if he is not seen entering the apartment during the relevant time, only leaving afterwards that is proof enough that he was there. Unless you would want to claim that the video was tampered with, or that there may be some secret way to get in and out, in which case why would you bother at all with the footage since you can dismiss it on the basis of speculation?

[sartoric]

The exiting footage has been provided, so why wouldn't the entry footage ?

I'm not speculating that the footage was tampered with, just saying that we haven't seen the footage of him arriving, which would put all speculation to bed. Apparently not available....

[boomerangutang]

Ok AleG, I know you're not stupid. But I'll say state it again: It was nearly 5 hours between the time of the crime and the time of the NS alibi video of him leaving the apartment. We're not discussing right now whether that video was tampered with. If it takes roughly 3.5 hours for a desperate person with money to get from KT to Bkk, then that leaves 'wiggle room' of about 90 minutes. I can't say for sure whether he made that trip, any more than you can say for sure he didn't. I'm neither an investigator, nor would I be allowed to investigate my theory in depth. This is Thailand, I'm not a Thai. I don't even speak Thai well. If Thai authorities (RTP and/or transport people and/or drivers) want to avoid providing info, it's the easiest thing for them to do. It's as easy as the bar managers refusing to allow RTP to see CCTV from that night.

This case would be monstrously different if I had been in charge of investigating. Notice, I didn't say, ".....if I was an investigator" because being an investigator in this case means finding results pre-set by higher ranking officers. That's the way investigations happen in Thailand, like it or not: Top officials declare the results they want, and it's the job of his underlings to connect the dots to provide proof of that. But, if I were in charge of the investigation, I would have done the following things from Day 1:

>>> Consider everyone as a possible suspect. No person would be excluded for any reasons - not for VIP status, for being related to a VIP, for being rich, for looking like a nice person, having a nice smile, being related to a VIP or a policitian or royalty, or anything. Get the picture?

>>> Secured the crime scene and had professionals gather data with rubber gloves. I would have tried to get top experts to head various factions of the investigation. I would have asked the Brits to assist, similar to how the Portuguese asked the Brits to assist in an important recent crime in Portugal, or how the Dutch asked the Brits to assist in another crime scenario in Holland.

>>> Insisted on all CCTV that may have been relevent to the crime. I would not have allowed a bar owner to refuse to hand over CCTV for any reason.

>>> I would, as a farang might say, "leave no stone unturned" in finding who did the crime.

>>> Instruct my investigative team to follow leads - wherever they lead, and to get video interviews where possible. Audio is 2nd best.

>>> Would offer promises of safety to anyone who chose to speak out and who appeared to have pertinent info to solving the crime - even offering a 24 hr. armed guard for a key witness. I would also offer rewards for info which could be used to convict.

>>> Would have arranged for Sean to stay in Thailand with a 'silent witness' provision, secret location, with two armed guards. Perhaps Sean is also an accessory to the crime, but we'll never know as he was allowed to quickly flee Thailand - with no contact.

>>> I would have detained prime suspects without bail. That's the only provision in this list that's being done now, except with one minor problem: they probably jailed the wrong guys.

[JLCrab]

From a BBC article 18 September 2014:

(BBC Correspondent Head) said investigators had several problems, including that the crime scene was not sealed off and people were not stopped from leaving Koh Tao after the killings. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29249129

So while it is possible, as above, that the wrong people are in jail, it is also possible that those who are responsible for these crimes are other tourist or tourists who calmly went back to their hotel, checked out in the morning, and caught a ferry off the island and have never returned.

[sartoric]

Crab.

Do you really think other tourists, who are on their vacation, would commit a crime such as this ?

Or two young Burmese men who're of the lowest social strata in Thailand ?

This was a crime of immense anger and hatred, something the very privileged (and their Gang) might have, along with a sense of entitlement and protection from the rule of law.

Motive is important.