WhizBang Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I am no Shin fan or apologist but it leaves a foul taste in the mouth when I see someone like Yingluck being kicked by the Army jackboots and then he joins in She's being kicked due to her own actions. Too many to list. But it is refreshing to see some not towing the party line and speaking out. That's what democracy is all about, right? The clan is blaming everything on others, whereas the hardcore leftist academic is asking the family to take a good, hard look at itself. Introspection is a great thing. The article is spot on. democracy is about elections dude but never mind Democracy is about so much more than just an election. But never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I am no Shin fan or apologist but it leaves a foul taste in the mouth when I see someone like Yingluck being kicked by the Army jackboots and then he joins in She's being kicked due to her own actions. Too many to list. But it is refreshing to see some not towing the party line and speaking out. That's what democracy is all about, right? Introspection is a great thing. The article is spot on. democracy is about elections dude but never mind Dude! Wow! Another "red" (despite your claims to the contrary) showing his ignorance ... elections are only a part of "democracy". Democracy can be broken down as follows: A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections. The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life. Protection of the human rights of all citizens. A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens. That last one is the one that Thaksin never thinks applies to him or his sycophants. With all due respect, , I do believe the last one is lost on many in the government here. Regardless of political affiliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
than Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 It seems to settle up with Taksin.... Very interresting , Taksin camps seems to crack..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think it's rather quaint how some here still think there will be free elections soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longway Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 No sh*t Somsak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longway Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Just goes to show how far loyalty goes once the money stops flowing. He is one of the few commentators that has personal integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I am no Shin fan or apologist but it leaves a foul taste in the mouth when I see someone like Yingluck being kicked by the Army jackboots and then he joins in She's being kicked due to her own actions. Too many to list. But it is refreshing to see some not towing the party line and speaking out. That's what democracy is all about, right? Introspection is a great thing. The article is spot on. democracy is about elections dude but never mind Dude! Wow! Another "red" (despite your claims to the contrary) showing his ignorance ... elections are only a part of "democracy". Democracy can be broken down as follows: A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections. The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life. Protection of the human rights of all citizens. A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens. That last one is the one that Thaksin never thinks applies to him or his sycophants. Another textbook expert on democracy. I hate to break this to you...all sleaze ball politicians, with power and money, think they're above the law. Some are just more adept than others and become billionaires. Red! Red! Sycophant! Sycophant! - the mating call of the rabid Thaksin-hater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique355 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 democracy is about elections dude but never mindElections are just one part of the democratic process. A very important part no question, but still just one part. Shin fans and apologists seem to have a tendency to forget this.As for Yingluck being kicked when she is down, politics is a rough old business, in which even the most popular and successful ones get criticized. It's the nature of the job. If Yingluck is too delicate to handle it.. well she should have thought about that the day a convicted on the run criminal phoned her and explained his plot to install her as leader of the country and push through an amnesty bill to clear him of wrong-doing, and she said "yes, ok". Do you think she would have understood it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 democracy is about elections dude but never mind Democracy is about so much more than just an election. But never mind. Sometimes I wonder if there's a RussiaVisa forum, were everytime something like someone that dared to speak against Putin gets murdered, some users resort to "but, but... elected!" as a means to defend the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcisco Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This thread arguing over the stature of elections in a democracy, is the wrong argument. Elections are to try and avoid the consensus problem, and giving a voice via proxy by self organizing of people to attempt a hub n spoke Comms model.... to represent everyone in one room at one time by representative for many...... or some crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Gone were the days, Somsak said, when a small group of people could sit down and successfully plot to oust someone. Huuhh??? Oh, I'll explain. That means that for a coup to be successful now there needs to be enough implicit or explicit support from the population ti kick the elected derriers out. Which I happen to agree with, and is a notion supported by the way things have moved on since the coup. Of course accepting that is a grievous blow to some people's worldview, in which the masses are kept under the heel of a jackboot and any time now they'll rise up to fulfill their revolutionary wet dreams; so I guess it is better to pretend not to understand the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiUser Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Ouch!!! A lefty telling the truth....only in Thailand! From where I am standing it isn't the truth but only his opinion and recollections of past events and they are blurred to an extend that makes me doubt that he actually is a left wing academic. If he is left wing, he is that brand of left wing that Erich Honecker or Leonid Brezhnev represented. Living surrounded by western luxury and preaching socialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) democracy is about elections dude but never mind Democracy is about so much more than just an election. But never mind. Sometimes I wonder if there's a RussiaVisa forum, were everytime something like someone that dared to speak against Putin gets murdered, some users resort to "but, but... elected!" as a means to defend the man. LannaGuy, on 01 Jun 2015 - 07:29, said: democracy is about elections dude but never mind Well much more than elections but it all gets very cloudy when the 'sitting government' proclaims loudly and often that it is building and protecting democracy when in reality / in fact it is working hard and with success to create a scenario whereby no election would ever remove it from power. But from your posts I guess your OK with that. Edited June 1, 2015 by scorecard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 democracy is about elections dude but never mindElections are just one part of the democratic process. A very important part no question, but still just one part. Shin fans and apologists seem to have a tendency to forget this.As for Yingluck being kicked when she is down, politics is a rough old business, in which even the most popular and successful ones get criticized. It's the nature of the job. If Yingluck is too delicate to handle it.. well she should have thought about that the day a convicted on the run criminal phoned her and explained his plot to install her as leader of the country and push through an amnesty bill to clear him of wrong-doing, and she said "yes, ok". Do you think she would have understood it? Well there's no evidence or suggestion that anybody put a gun to her head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiUser Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Just goes to show how far loyalty goes once the money stops flowing. He knows as well as everyone except LannaGuy and Heybruce that Thaksin is finished - history - gone and will never set foot in Thailand again except in ankle chains As for the terrorist Thaksin funded redshirts - their support is so low now that it is pointless to open their mouths, I hope at some point in the near future they will all be investigated and asked where their money came from but I suspect a deal has been done shutting them up to avoid an investigation as they all know they would end up in jail. It would be easy for the current government to issue an international arrest warrant if there was any evidence that would support your claim that Thaksin funded terrorists and I doubt that countries would deny his extradition. However, until that evidence materialises your statement is nothing more as an allegation that is without substance. How large or small the support for the red shirts is can only be established during elections since we live at the moment in times that are not favourable to express a political opinion or allegiances we might have to one party. I agree with you on one point and that is an investigation into wealth accumulated, and would suggest extending that investigation across party lines. Maybe it would force you to change your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 First of, i congratulate khun Somsak for his skill at grasping the blindingly obvious, now... "In his most stinging attack against the Shinawatras yet, Somsak Jeamteerasakul asserted that the clan is no different from those who the family's members claim are hell-bent on destroying them." Alas, I have to disagree here, his clan is different from this vague yet ominous other people, because he came as a wolf in sheep's clothes and that puts people into dangerous mindsets, once some people buy into the sales pitch they rather go into denial or fanaticism to hold onto that ideal, even if it doesn't match up to reality; as exemplified by those here making endless rationalizations and excuses to ignore or justify Thaksin's abuses while in power (in person or in proxy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiUser Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Most sensible thing he's said in years. Even if Lannaguy doesn't see it I am no Shin fan or apologist but it leaves a foul taste in the mouth when I see someone like Yingluck being kicked by the Army jackboots and then he joins in But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor, says what many of us farangs have also been pointing out for years ? Sadly people like him were quieter or simply ignored, in the days when PTP-MPs got their monthly loyalty-bonus, from the party. If only there were more like him, and they were to form a political-party committed to representing the interests of the poor, but then who would ever want to finance them ? Meanwhile the fragrant & photogenic former-PM, who had to have her arm twisted by her brother to ever stand for the job, has taken-up a management-role more in line with her abilities. I wish her luck with that. But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor He was a professor at one of the better known universities in Thailand. Since when did any of the academic elite ascend from the ranks of the poor to obtain a professorship there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiUser Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 democracy is about elections dude but never mind Wrong. Elections are a part of democracy, as much as fair judicial system, due process of law, freedom of information, freedom to vote however you choose without threats and intimidation. Elections on their own do not equal democracy, North Korea runs elections and the present govt won a 100% of the vote - so in your opinion NK must be about the most democratic utopia on earth? Would you like to explain how democracy is helped when one party created and/or buys smaller parties to pretend to run against it in an election in order to gain 40% of the vote, to stop the election being voided? I agree... you think we have that now? a Military State where students were arrested last week? an interesting take on 'democracy' but let's get back ON TOPIC? PS why say 'one party'? your 'facts' are all over the place but you don't care about facts do you? we veer off topic please save your Junta support for a different thread? I wish you would stop going on about the current government not being a democracy - we are all fully aware of what it is, we are also fully aware that it is a process that just might conclude with a stable and fair system of democracy in Thailand that might just stop the rot once and for all, The Shin abuse could not be allowed to continue I don't know if the current government is a democracy and the question in my view is if it is democratic. However, I will not elaborate on it but like to ask you some questions. When did your spaceship arrive on planet Earth and how many crew members did come with you? I ask because when presenting an opinion you always refer to ‘we’ instead of ‘I’ which should be a standard expression when referring to one's own opinion. we are also fully aware that it is a process that just might conclude with a stable and fair system of democracy in Thailand that might just stop the rot once and for all, The Shin abuse could not be allowed to continue Your last statement only added to the confusion I always feel when reading one of your comments and the benefit of the doubt you extend to the current administration really amazes me. What makes you so confident that the revolving door of government ousted by coup will change anything? That pattern has been repeated over the last decades more often as in any other country and still it didn’t change anything. Your expression that it just might conclude in a stable and fair system of democracy seems to be based on belief, which I prefer to extend to my religion but has nothing to do in politics. Here facts and certainties are the requirements and might is only one possibility out of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Most sensible thing he's said in years. Even if Lannaguy doesn't see it I am no Shin fan or apologist but it leaves a foul taste in the mouth when I see someone like Yingluck being kicked by the Army jackboots and then he joins in But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor, says what many of us farangs have also been pointing out for years ? Sadly people like him were quieter or simply ignored, in the days when PTP-MPs got their monthly loyalty-bonus, from the party. If only there were more like him, and they were to form a political-party committed to representing the interests of the poor, but then who would ever want to finance them ? Meanwhile the fragrant & photogenic former-PM, who had to have her arm twisted by her brother to ever stand for the job, has taken-up a management-role more in line with her abilities. I wish her luck with that. But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor He was a professor at one of the better known universities in Thailand. Since when did any of the academic elite ascend from the ranks of the poor to obtain a professorship there? So you feel he's more of a champagne socialist, perhaps like the former-PM he's criticising, then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Most sensible thing he's said in years. Even if Lannaguy doesn't see it I am no Shin fan or apologist but it leaves a foul taste in the mouth when I see someone like Yingluck being kicked by the Army jackboots and then he joins in But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor, says what many of us farangs have also been pointing out for years ? Sadly people like him were quieter or simply ignored, in the days when PTP-MPs got their monthly loyalty-bonus, from the party. If only there were more like him, and they were to form a political-party committed to representing the interests of the poor, but then who would ever want to finance them ? Meanwhile the fragrant & photogenic former-PM, who had to have her arm twisted by her brother to ever stand for the job, has taken-up a management-role more in line with her abilities. I wish her luck with that. But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor He was a professor at one of the better known universities in Thailand. Since when did any of the academic elite ascend from the ranks of the poor to obtain a professorship there? He was one of the 'Thammasat 18' students arrested after the 6th Oct 1976 massacre and jailed for 2 years under lese majeste laws until given an amnesty by HM so has very strong ties to the university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiUser Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor, says what many of us farangs have also been pointing out for years ? Sadly people like him were quieter or simply ignored, in the days when PTP-MPs got their monthly loyalty-bonus, from the party. If only there were more like him, and they were to form a political-party committed to representing the interests of the poor, but then who would ever want to finance them ? Meanwhile the fragrant & photogenic former-PM, who had to have her arm twisted by her brother to ever stand for the job, has taken-up a management-role more in line with her abilities. I wish her luck with that. But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor He was a professor at one of the better known universities in Thailand. Since when did any of the academic elite ascend from the ranks of the poor to obtain a professorship there? So you feel he's more of a champagne socialist, perhaps like the former-PM he's criticising, then ? I can't see the former PM Thaksin as a socialist but only as a 110% capitalist using his policies to get what he wanted in return for hand outs to the rural population. Not very uncommon in western societies if I can point you to Tony Blair, Bill Clinton or Gerhard Schroeder who all have joined the ranks of multimillionaires enjoying the lifestyle of champagne socialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiUser Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But you must surely applaud, when a lone voice from the ranks of the poor He was a professor at one of the better known universities in Thailand. Since when did any of the academic elite ascend from the ranks of the poor to obtain a professorship there? He was one of the 'Thammasat 18' students arrested after the 6th Oct 1976 massacre and jailed for 2 years under lese majeste laws until given an amnesty by HM so has very strong ties to the university. It still doesn’t invalidate my statement, does it? The student revolt of 1976 has similarities to the student movements in Europe (Germany and France) were children of the middle and upper class revolted against the establishment. In Germany these revolts resulted in the formation of terrorist groups like Bader/Meinhof. But certain is that it wasn’t a revolt of the working classes or the poor classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 IT'S ALL THAKSIN'S FAULT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Name names, no one got the balls to say who the elite is. He says Thaksin but what about the others. Gives names not BS Thaksin one of the elite ! Who woulda known ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Most sensible thing he's said in years. Even if Lannaguy doesn't see it I am no Shin fan or apologist but it leaves a foul taste in the mouth when I see someone like Yingluck being kicked by the Army jackboots and then he joins in Poor guy. Your mouth is going to taste like the inside of concreter's gumboot by the time this is over ! Yum Yum ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggusoil Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Just goes to show how far loyalty goes once the money stops flowing. Too true in this culture. Sorry? Which is the pure culture you have exuded from? Mushrooms perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweatalot Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 democracy is about elections dude but never mind so you keep telling everyone here and so we keep correcting you and so I keep repeating that a Military Junta is not the answer - nor has it ever been throughout history but this point seems to elude you repeating it 1000 times still does not make it true regarding the situation in Thailand before the coup and the years before it can very well be an answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 democracy is about elections dude but never mind so you keep telling everyone here and so we keep correcting you and so I keep repeating that a Military Junta is not the answer - nor has it ever been throughout history but this point seems to elude you repeating it 1000 times still does not make it true regarding the situation in Thailand before the coup and the years before it can very well be an answer well, it was the answer chosen by the General... And now he speaks for all of Thailand so your point is "true" in an extremely contorted way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wombat6 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 yea easy to stick the boot in when their down isn't it? Totally deserved...at least he can see the truth wheras you can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wombat6 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Most sensible thing he's said in years. Even if Lannaguy doesn't see it I am no Shin fan or apologist but it leaves a foul taste in the mouth when I see someone like Yingluck being kicked by the Army jackboots and then he joins in Your not a democrat supporter either as evidenced by your posts. You still believe Yingluck hasn't done anything wrong !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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