My wife is really badly suffering with the menopause (for some years now)

[n210mp]

and I am at my witts end in knowing what to do.

apart from the mood swings, the tiredness she can sweat pools of water and I do mean mean pools of water just gushing off her face and head

Like a lot of Thai ladies she just shrugs it off and when we were in the UK had tried hormone replacement therapy treatment which did not work.

I wonder if anyone knows of any Holistic or natural remedy that I can find for her.

Any tips would be appreciated

Thanks

[Sheryl]

If you mean herbs and the like there are plenty claiming to help but little evidence that they do.

What works best is bioidentical HRT which is likely NOT what she had before. That means estradial and progesterone (NOT a synthetic progestin!) Identical in composition to that human women have prior to menopause.

Unfortnately Thai Ob-Gyns are almost all unfamiliar with this and prescribe only things like Premarin and Provera.

The docs at the various ant-aging clinics affiliated with major hospitals do however usually stock and prescribe bioidentical HRT. Pricey though esecially at first as they tend to want to do complicated hormone tests.

BTW it is estogen that stops the hot flashes but progesterone that eases the mood swings..and only true progesterone will do that, synthetic progestins like provera will often make them worse.

Bioidentical estrogen gel is readily available OTC brand name Oestrogel but getting natural progestetone is difficult. It is not safe to use estrogen alone (risk of uterine cancer) and will also not help the "crazies".

[JDGRUEN]

OP -- Sheryl's advice is SPOT on and if you want to save your marriage, your wife's health and both your sanity ... spare no expense ... Even if you have to fly her to some place - Singapore or even your home country to get it done. Claim medical necessity for a short term visa...

[Sheryl]

Bioidentical progesterone gel is available OTC in phnom penh. It is possible to do - it - yourself bioidentical hrt and plenty of guidance for it on the web but your thai wife might respond better to it being prescribed by a thai doctor hence suggestion to try one of the anti-aging clinics. Med consult asia in bkk is anothet possibility, they have bioidentical HRT creams and Dr. Donna there, while farang, speaks Thai.

This issue is always difficult because Thai women, like most Thai doctors, are poorly informed on the subject

If your wife by any chance reads English well there ate plenty of books I can recommend.

Whether DIY or physician- supervised, 2 important safety rules for use of hrt: 1) use the least amount of the estrogen necessary to control symptoms and (2) get annual breast exam (including mammogram) and pap smear.

Systemic HRT done properly will control the hot flashes, night sweats and mood swings but may not be enough for the vaginal dryness and other GU issues that are also common at menopause. You didn't mention

It but women are often hesitant to mention it or may think it is inevitable part of aging. If she had become adverse to habing sex and/or is making an unusual number of trips to the bathroom it is quite likely she is suffering this as well. Topical estrogen creams used vaginally work wonders.

[doublephil]

Herbal remedies certainly can and do work. The traditional Thai herbal remedy is called Kwao Kreua Kao - the scientific name is Pueraria mirifica. It is very effective at balancing and regulating female hormones. If she is Thai - your wife will surely know about it. I know several women who have used it successfully. It is easily available at many pharmacy shops or shops that sell herbal products

[Muzarella]

Herbal remedies certainly can and do work. The traditional Thai herbal remedy is called Kwao Kreua Kao - the scientific name is Pueraria mirifica. It is very effective at balancing and regulating female hormones. If she is Thai - your wife will surely know about it. I know several women who have used it successfully. It is easily available at many pharmacy shops or shops that sell herbal products

Agree totally. My wife is using with amazing results, not only for her menospausal problems. She had small breast and the product also enlarge it, and her libido. She is on her late 40s and had not period. Menstruation comes back after 6 months of the product use, and together with an increase in her energy and disposition. .Later she found out that the product have a variety called Butea Superba to resolve older men problems, like urination, incontinency, and libido. Works on myself too! It is a lot of info online, and many sellers, but the best product is found here, because it is original from Thailand.

[Pungdo]

If you are in Pattaya or not too far away there is a clinic in Pattaya run by an American Doctor, qualified to practice in Thailand, his practice is called Maximum Performance Wellness Center, he specialises mostly in Mens Low T problems but also treats women, he comes highly recommended.

www.lowtanswer.com is his website

Edited June 2, 2015 by Pungdo

[dotpoom]

Bioidentical progesterone gel is available OTC in phnom penh. It is possible to do - it - yourself bioidentical hrt and plenty of guidance for it on the web but your thai wife might respond better to it being prescribed by a thai doctor hence suggestion to try one of the anti-aging clinics. Med consult asia in bkk is anothet possibility, they have bioidentical HRT creams and Dr. Donna there, while farang, speaks Thai.

This issue is always difficult because Thai women, like most Thai doctors, are poorly informed on the subject

If your wife by any chance reads English well there ate plenty of books I can recommend.

Whether DIY or physician- supervised, 2 important safety rules for use of hrt: 1) use the least amount of the estrogen necessary to control symptoms and (2) get annual breast exam (including mammogram) and pap smear.

Systemic HRT done properly will control the hot flashes, night sweats and mood swings but may not be enough for the vaginal dryness and other GU issues that are also common at menopause. You didn't mention

It but women are often hesitant to mention it or may think it is inevitable part of aging. If she had become adverse to habing sex and/or is making an unusual number of trips to the bathroom it is quite likely she is suffering this as well. Topical estrogen creams used vaginally work wonders.

Now that's what I call a really helpful, direct to the point answer, that should be considered priceless to those with the same concerns as the OP. Just felt like thanking you for taking the time to reply with such a full answer even though I myself am not in the need of same......but never know, she who must be obeyed may, like myself, one day go through a second childhood.

[maidee]

there is no proof of herbal remedies, on paper,

because big pharma will not cough up millions in clinical trials, because there is no money to be made from it, aka, no patents

I always wonder, there is something like the WHO, but they never want to invest one cent either in non big pharma stuff, makes you wonder what is their agenda .... go vaccinate the world with mercury, SV40, aborted embryo cells, ...

no wonder there is more autism, auto immune, cancer, etc...

look up some herbal supplements, give it a try, it hardly cost anything, but time ...

[BlackJack]

wow my GF shows all these symptoms and is no where near MP

[Jing Joe]

Do your research;-

Dr John R Lee on the subject of natural Progesterone cream.

Great for 70 or so hormonal unbalances.

Especially menopause in your case.

[flyingdoc]

Maidee is absolutely right.

There are two supplements which will help greatly, namely AGNUS CASTUS and BLACK COHOSH.

You can buy them off eBay and possibly in larger healthcare stores .

[taiping]

Herbal remedies certainly can and do work. The traditional Thai herbal remedy is called Kwao Kreua Kao - the scientific name is Pueraria mirifica. It is very effective at balancing and regulating female hormones. If she is Thai - your wife will surely know about it. I know several women who have used it successfully. It is easily available at many pharmacy shops or shops that sell herbal products

Agree totally. My wife is using with amazing results, not only for her menospausal problems. She had small breast and the product also enlarge it, and her libido. She is on her late 40s and had not period. Menstruation comes back after 6 months of the product use, and together with an increase in her energy and disposition. .Later she found out that the product have a variety called Butea Superba to resolve older men problems, like urination, incontinency, and libido. Works on myself too! It is a lot of info online, and many sellers, but the best product is found here, because it is original from Thailand.

I had not heard of Butea Superba before, but this clinical trial seems to show it's effective for ED . . .

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12937809

[HidyHo]

...

Later she found out that the product have a variety called Butea Superba to resolve older men problems, like urination, incontinency, and libido. Works on myself too! ...

I'd be curious to know where to find this in BKK and whether this is something you take regularly (e.g. daily vitamins) or "on demand" ... and dosage info.

[Sheryl]

wow my GF shows all these symptoms and is no where near MP

If it occurs only in the 10 days or so prior to menstruation (with big improvement as soon as period comes) then it is PMDD.

While hotfl;ashes are more specific to menopause, the mood swings and mood/mental issues in menopause and PMDD are quite similiar. Both respond well to progesterone and may be related to an imbalance between estrogen and progesterone levels.

[Sheryl]

Herbal remedies certainly can and do work. The traditional Thai herbal remedy is called Kwao Kreua Kao - the scientific name is Pueraria mirifica. It is very effective at balancing and regulating female hormones. If she is Thai - your wife will surely know about it. I know several women who have used it successfully. It is easily available at many pharmacy shops or shops that sell herbal products

Pueraria mirifica contains phytoestrogens.

If you want to use it rather than bioidentical estrogen, and it works, fine, but you will still need to add progesterone.

Estrogen or phytoestrogen used alone in menopausal women r=creates a risk of uterine cancer because the endometrial lining builds up.

Perhaos evemn more important (since unlike the above, which is just a small risk, this will affect most women) - estrogen and estrogen-mimickers (which is what phytoestrigens are) worsen the mood swings which are thought to be due to an excess of estrogen vs. progesterone. It is essential to balance this with progesterone or else matters may worsen in terms of bursts of anger etc even if the hot flashes are better.

[JDGRUEN]

This Topic Thread with such good and accurate information given by Sheryl should be a PINNED POST under some classification of Surviving Marriage in Thailand or Anywhere - Remedies for Side Effects of Menopause.. I am quite serious and not making a joke

[sir charles IV]

Not sure how I can help but I tend to change partners once they hit 35. It's worked well with no issues such as menopause or gravity related issues. Prevention is better than cure!

[Linzz]

Not sure how I can help but I tend to change partners once they hit 35. It's worked well with no issues such as menopause or gravity related issues. Prevention is better than cure!

Yes you were right to question how you could help.

[sir charles IV]

Not sure how I can help but I tend to change partners once they hit 35. It's worked well with no issues such as menopause or gravity related issues. Prevention is better than cure!

Yes you were right to question how you could help.

are you seeking help with the topic? If not stop wasting everyone's time with meaningless replies. Ps- my partner is 34. Getting close for a new model. Exciting.

[nithisa78]

Sir, Your caring and sincere attitude are the first step.

The Thai diet is good for PH balance, but that would still be the first thing I looked at.

WE figure this one out and World Peace will follow.

Then continue to love. That is the cure all. I also try to remember to beg the Lord 247.

He is listening, we often aren't.

Stay strong. Friend.

[Linzz]

Not sure how I can help but I tend to change partners once they hit 35. It's worked well with no issues such as menopause or gravity related issues. Prevention is better than cure!

Yes you were right to question how you could help.

are you seeking help with the topic? If not stop wasting everyone's time with meaningless replies. Ps- my partner is 34. Getting close for a new model. Exciting.

Oh sorry I see now, you are talking about your avatar

[greenchair]

What a lot of good advice.

[gchurch259]

If you have insurance or money, Bumrungrad is good, they have a Womens Clinic and I am sure that have seen it before.

If you mean herbs and the like there are plenty claiming to help but little evidence that they do.

What works best is bioidentical HRT which is likely NOT what she had before. That means estradial and progesterone (NOT a synthetic progestin!) Identical in composition to that human women have prior to menopause.

Unfortnately Thai Ob-Gyns are almost all unfamiliar with this and prescribe only things like Premarin and Provera.

The docs at the various ant-aging clinics affiliated with major hospitals do however usually stock and prescribe bioidentical HRT. Pricey though esecially at first as they tend to want to do complicated hormone tests.

BTW it is estogen that stops the hot flashes but progesterone that eases the mood swings..and only true progesterone will do that, synthetic progestins like provera will often make them worse.

Bioidentical estrogen gel is readily available OTC brand name Oestrogel but getting natural progestetone is difficult. It is not safe to use estrogen alone (risk of uterine cancer) and will also not help the "crazies".

[mls]

I come from a family where all the women have suffered early menopause and horrendous symptoms (my aunt is over 70 and still suffers).

I went on HRT in the UK 15 years ago due to my symptoms which sound somewhat similar to your wife's. Hot flushes (that's UK English for flashes) every 15 minutes during the day and at least 2 hourly during the night with rivers of sweat and soaked sheets. Depression, exhaustion and mood swings to top the lot. I had tried herbal remedies first but they didn't work and I was desperate.

When I moved over here I tried to get my original prescription but it just wasn't available and what I was given by the OBG just wasn't working (as Sheryl said, they really know nothing and leave Thai women to suffer). After a lot of trying different things with no luck I was recommended Angeliq by a gynaecologist friend in Malaysia. I have to order it from pharmacies here and it isn't cheap - 1,050 baht for a month - (it's not readily available over the counter).

Although the progesterone element is synthetic it is closer to biological than most others. I tried to find bio-identical but lucked out and considered making my own but couldn't source the necessary ingredients.

One VERY important thing. It doesn't work immediately. It will take 6-8 weeks to show some real difference. I miscalculated re-ordering over the new year and was without it for only 10 days. The symptoms came back with a vengeance and once I re-started it was a good 6 weeks before they went again.

If dryness during sex is a problem the Oestrogen cream does help a lot.

Hope this helps. It's a bit of a bug bear to me as I was once told by a female gynaecologist that menopausal symptoms don't last for longer than 5 years and she was adamant it wasn't possible. Having seen my mum suffer and my aunt and myself, I really wish that she has a hell of a time with it when it hits her!!!

Good luck.

[NancyL]

It's interesting to "listen in" on men taking such an interest in this topic. I once heard my own husband telling a friend that "menopause wasn't as difficult as he expected it would be" in talking about mine, where I only had occasional night sweats for about six months. We never could have children, but I had numerous miscarriages and what we found was that after each miscarriage, my cycle and PMS (or what Sheryl seems to call PMDD) settled into a different pattern. It was like I had a different biology. I had numerous miscarriages and we sought treatment all over the U.S. Finally after 9 or 10 miscarriages -- I can't remember for sure -- my husband begged me to stop and go back to using birth control, mainly because it was obvious we weren't going to succeed in having a child AND I'd managed to settle into a cycle pattern where I actually didn't have PMS. I wasn't a raving you-know-what for five days of the month and hopefully I wouldn't be depressed for another five days every month once we decided to stop trying.

[neeray]

Salute to TVF members for the interaction on this thread (except for the one who comments about discarding his ladies as they approach 35).

Such a civil group with great responses!

[Maeklong]

Looking at some of the posts above, this is a very important topic for many.

I've been there, and it was terrible, so I'll take a bit of time to give you all the information that I have.

Due to complications with endometriosis, my wife had an ovary removed at the age of 34. The remaining ovary had to work double time, and she went perimenopausal by 41. By about the age of 44, classic menopause symptoms started, and having a PhD. in biology, I knew what was going on. Family life and I and our three children were suffering.

I knew I needed to find a place in Thailand where we could get hormone replacement therapy. My wife had an excellent male OB-GYN, one of the best in Thailand, but for an HRT doctor I wanted a woman, some one who had the experience, not just the theory, of doing HRT.

Searching on the internet, I eventually found Dr. Khunying Kobchitt Limpaphayom. She is a Professor Emeritus at Chulalongkorn University, and at that time she was on the executive board of the International Menopause Society (The IMS has been instrumental in providing common sense articles to balance the media hysteria over HRT).

So I wrote her a letter, asking her to provide HRT for my wife, which coming from a husband, surprised her......and the clinic called my wife, and asked her to make an appointment.

A bit of her bio in Thailand-

Two terms President of Royal Thai College of Ob&Gyn
Four terms President of Thai menopause Society
Former President of Thai Osteoporosis Foundation.

The reason she is a Khunying is she is the OB-GYN to the Royal Family, and spends at least one month a year in the countryside working to educate villagers about menopause and cervical cancer.

This NYTimes story from 2011 is worth reading:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/health/27cancer.html

Dr. Kobchitt has a clinic called Menox clinic at Vichaiyut Hospital on Rama 6 Road, BKK.

http://www.vichaiyut.co.th/eng/doctor_detail.asp?id=44

Dr. Kobchitt is now nearing 70, and has taken HRT herself for many years.

She knows what she is talking about, and can answer every question from personal knowlege or experience, which is what helped my wife to overcome her fears of HRT from scare stories in the media.

One thing Dr. Kobchitt has said to us several times - my wife was lucky to start HRT so early after peri-menopause.

Starting HRT as soon as possible after the onset of menopause is much better than waiting for a few years when health and wellness issues from hormone deficiencies start.

My wife has been going to Dr. Kobchitt about 14 years now, and we visit her clinic twice a year. She usually provides enough hormones and vitamin E for 6 months, and I think we are now paying about 7-8,000 baht/visit, medicine included (don't quote me on that). The cost will depend on which hormones the Dr. decides to give your wife. The first visit will probably also require a blood test to check hormone levels. I think the Dr. did a second blood test about 3 months after starting HRT to make sure the hormone levels were where she wanted them to be.

During the first few years, when my wife was having mood swings and so on, the Dr. also gave her something to help her sleep and calm her down. Which was highly appreciated!

Some of our Thai female friends think going to Dr. Kobchitt is too expensive, but we don't agree. You get what you pay for.

The benefits to my wife's quality of life, the improvements in her health, her slow-aging compared with her sisters and her friends.....not to mention the improvement in our family life, have been worth every baht.

Fifteen years ago, my wife couldn't go shopping without needing to find a seat to rest every 20 minutes, now at 56, she does 2.5 hours of yoga 5 nights a week.

Good luck to all!

[Sheryl]

Does she use bioidentical progesterone or synthetic progestins?

[Maeklong]

Good question Sheryl, I didn't know. I checked bedside to see what my wife is taking, and as described in mls's earlier post, my wife is also taking Angeliq. Searching online, it contains 0.5 milligrams (mg) of drospirenone and 1 mg of estradiol USP. Drospirenone is a synthetic progestin, also used in birth control pills at much higher doses (20-30 milligrams in birth control pills, compared to 0.5 for Angeliq, which is really quite low). Wikipedia, for what that's worth, says that drospirenone works more like natural progesterone than other alternatives, and that taken orally, it has a bioavailability of 67%, so that means the actual working dosage would be about 0.33 mg. I'm OK with this, it's the results that count, and it's preferable to having my wife taking progesterone extracted from horse's piss.

It is the big swings in the hormones caused by shutting down of the ovaries that cause all of the problems in the beginning, followed by the slow decline to sub-optimal levels that causes hair loss, soft fingernails, loss of skin and muscle tone, loss of energy, loss of libido, reduced bone density, etc.

The post by mls makes an interesting point- that it takes a few weeks for Angeliq to start working. That tells you that the hormones in Angeliq are quite low, work subtly, and provide just enough estradiol and progesterone to stabilize hormones at near optimal levels in the body.