Non-EU spouse visiting the UK with Swiss husband.

[bobrussell]

Three messages from donotreply@hgs..... , each answering questions I have not asked and none covering the actual issues!

Latest telling me that the visa4uk website has been tested with specific web browsers and I might get error messages if I don't use one of those. Also outlining how an applicant might be able to make an appointment for biometrics! Not even country specific.

I assume when you complain via the .gov website, the staff have a selection of stock answers and just send one of those! I imagine the system has developed to bore complainants into giving up!

No responses from the UKVI or Minister for Immigration's office.

Daily Mail and local rag seem keen for immigration related stories so that is my next step!

[Richard W]

If people get fed up with the updates, just let me know!

Well, I'm still following the tale.

[bobrussell]

Nice lady at UKVI has spoken to our MP's office. Investigating the matter but does seem to think the actions of the ECO were a bit odd!

[bobrussell]

I cannot believe how incompetent or perhaps clever at avoiding dealing with a complaint, UKVI are.

I have had an email from their complaints team to tell me the reasons for the decision was despatched to the applicant on 13th July!

The complaint is about how this decision was reached and the application handled! I wonder if this circle of non-answers is a deliberate attempt at protecting the UKVI.

[bobrussell]

Dear Dr Russell

Thank you for your email correspondence of 15 July to the Immigration minister about the visa application for your wife’s friend which was refused. Your enquiry has been forwarded to Customer Service Operations. We have been asked to reply.

In order to safeguard an individual’s personal information and to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998, we are limited in what information we can provide when the request is made by someone who is not the subject of the application.

We understand that the outcome of the visa application is disappointing. It may be helpful to explain that when considering any application for Entry Clearance it is the intentions and circumstances of the applicant that are of paramount importance. The onus rests with the applicant to provide sufficient evidence to satisfy the Entry Clearance Officer (ECO) that they meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules for the category in which they have applied

Your wife’s friend is free to make a fresh application for Entry Clearance at any time which would be considered on its merits and in accordance with the Immigration Rules. While we can give no guarantee as to the outcome of any application, the points raised by the Entry Clearance Officer in the previous refusal notice should be addressed and documentation provided to support any statements made.

You stated that your wife’s friend is the spouse of an EEA citizen. Information about the eligibility and applying as a family member of an EEA national can be found on our website at: www.gov.uk/family-permit

You also stated that the option for a family permit did not appear on the website. For online visa application questions, technical queries, including error messages, please visit: www.gov.uk/find-an-immigration-adviser provides a list of immigration advisers. They can also get advice from legally qualified professionals that are regulated by designated professional bodies.

If your wife’s friends have any further questions about our visa application process, please contact us at:

www.gov.uk/contact-ukvi-outside-uk

We hope that this information is helpful to you

Yet another non-answer!

Why on earth would someone need to take professional advice for a simple EEA Family Permit application? The refusal reasons given by the ECO were irrelevant to a permit application! A second application for the EEA permit was blocked from processing by the visa application centre!

Clearly pointless continuing with any complaint as nobody is going to answer the specific complaint!

[Donutz]

Lol, that's just repeating the obvious: you are free to try again, adress whatever grounds the ECO raised, if you cannot figure it out and/or if ECO made a mistake, hire a lawyer... Aka we don't give a damn, just try as many times as you wish untill you may get the desiree result, no need for us to see where to improve customer service.

Useless... But perhaps if others sent complaints to maybe eventually someone will wake up and realize the mistakes (poor instructions to the public, procedure is not as simple as it should be) and the tourists/money they are missing out on.

[bobrussell]

Now I have given up expecting any action from UKVI (I have to admit i did expect more!) we have to decide what to do next should the family want to visit in the future.

Some EU sites state that the right to free movement is planning to work. Does this mean that a visit visa is required after all? If so the only form visa4UK has requires payment for the visit visa. This means that it is free to enter the UK to live but not to visit if a non-EEA spouse travels with their EEA partner.

Should we have applied for a visit visa all along? If so why was the applicant not told this?

Does a Swiss national spouse need a permit at all? What would happen if they just turned up at the border with marriage certificate, passport and residence permit?

Strange that she has a US multi entry visa (husband went to university there) and travels widely within Europe but not the UK.

As with many very wealthy families, I don't think they will bother and will spend their money elsewhere! Sad!

Time to close the thread perhaps!!!

[Donutz]

Freedom of movement for EU/EEA nationals and their family applies to all: both short and long stay and aslong as they are nit an unreasonable burden to the state. Some embassies seem to state that this right of a free visa with minimal requirements only applies to long stay (workers etc.), which is absolute nonsense. The basics are explained here:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

Obiously for migrants there is a bit more to it but for a stay up to 3 months it should be as easy as buying something in the supermarket.

[bobrussell]

My only concern is that Switzerland is not an EEA country and the regulations are bilateral agreements with the EU. The UK does not appear interested in playing by the rules!

Really not sure if the next application should be a visit visa or stick with the EEA Permit. Perhaps we need to pretend they are not travelling as a family!

I am staggered and totally disgusted by the behaviour of all parties at UKVI.

[Donutz]

It'a not EU or EEA but it is part of lots of mutual agreements, treaties etc. Think of Schengen (border free area), EFTA (european free trade association) etc. Pretty much has it's hands tied but without any real influence (democratic input via Brussel).

Now I cannot be bothered to search for the specifics (should be somewhere on the Eurolex website links included on the page regarding Directive 2004/38, but it boils down to this: Switserland needs to apply the contents of Directive 2004/38 and ofcourse so much other's when it comes to Swiss nationals as these agreements are not a one way street. So your friends wife should ask an EEA permit (why on earth it is not a visa is beyond me, discussed previously), and get it ASAP and for zero costs provided that she showe that she is married to the Swiss national, both ID themselves and indicate that she joins him on his UK trip. Pretty much an effortless thing, if UkVI did it's job properly!!

Edit: While doing the dishes I figured out that the very extendive EEA applicationform has to do do with long term applicants, those would need to show that they can be selfsufficient etc. but for a holiday those questions do not apply. Even more of a reason to split up and introduce an EEA family visa with simple short form and no irrelevant questions which may confuse applicants or infact some ECO's that think everyone needs to answer questions regarding income etc while that is not relevant for short stays and should not be asked!

Edited August 11, 2015 by Donutz

[bobrussell]

Had the official response to my MP!

Insufficient evidence to show residency (must have ignored the permit in the passport).

Insufficient evidence of financial circumstances.

Apparently required whatever the funds available are?? Really?

VAC are not responsible for ensuring all paperwork is present and correct. True enough but they do have a tick box system!

The ECO is not obliged to contact the applicant for extra information. Again true enough but they have a duty to 'facilitate.

Clearly the first application should have been 'better' but it was complete with the information required. ECO was not happy enough!

Apparently the applicant was told why the second application could not be processed but they were advised to quickly make a new online application and come back later in the day! What on earth is all that about? I have checked it and it contained far more information than was actually required.

Total ba**s up IMO.