Kan Airlines have just cancelled my 2 flights !

[Asiantravel]

I received a telephone call tonight from a young female who said she was calling from Kan Air to tell me that she was very sorry but my 2 flights from Utapao to Chiang Mai two weeks from tomorrow and returning in July have both been cancelled! When I asked why she said technical difficulties!

Unfortunately her spoken English was quite poor so she was unable to communicate with me why exactly this had happened. I have since sent an email to the company asking them for clarification.

I wonder if this means that already they have decided there were insufficient passengers patronising this route and they are stopping it? It’s the only explanation I can think of.

I’m wondering has anyone else received any cancellation phone calls of this nature from the company regarding any other routes ?

[mesquite]

Someone else had their fights cancelled by Kan and they posted about it a short while ago.

[Asiantravel]

Someone else had their fights cancelled by Kan and they posted about it a short while ago.

I remember that post but that cancellation happened on the day of the flight. We’re talking here about a flight which is due to depart two weeks from tomorrow!

Actually since my original post I checked their schedule on their website and it has shrunk to virtually nothing. Many of the flights they were offering before look like they have disappeared.

[CNXBKKMAN]

I don't know the exact details but there was talk of Kan Air suspending some new routes because the civil aviation authorities hadn't signed off on the routes and issued the correct approvals.

I enjoyed my flight though....

[CNXBKKMAN]

Its going to be tough to make the U-Tapao flights work. i hope they pull it off. Theres a saying in the airline world. Something along the lines of....How do you make a $1,000,000 in the airline business? Start off with $100,000,000, within 6 months $1,000,000 is all you will have left.

[Asiantravel]

Its going to be tough to make the U-Tapao flights work. i hope they pull it off. Theres a saying in the airline world. Something along the lines of....How do you make a $1,000,000 in the airline business? Start off with $100,000,000, within 6 months $1,000,000 is all you will have left.

I knew they wouldn't be able to fill up 66 seats three times a week.

They should have started a trial run with the Cessna Caravan. Yes it would have taken longer but it's still more convenient than going to the main airports.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Its going to be tough to make the U-Tapao flights work. i hope they pull it off. Theres a saying in the airline world. Something along the lines of....How do you make a $1,000,000 in the airline business? Start off with $100,000,000, within 6 months $1,000,000 is all you will have left.

I knew they wouldn't be able to fill up 66 seats three times a week.

They should have started a trial run with the Cessna Caravan. Yes it would have taken longer but it's still more convenient than going to the main airports.

What have they offered you? Alternative dates? Replacement flights to DMK/BKK and a transfer? or just your money back?

[Asiantravel]

Its going to be tough to make the U-Tapao flights work. i hope they pull it off. Theres a saying in the airline world. Something along the lines of....How do you make a $1,000,000 in the airline business? Start off with $100,000,000, within 6 months $1,000,000 is all you will have left.

I knew they wouldn't be able to fill up 66 seats three times a week.

They should have started a trial run with the Cessna Caravan. Yes it would have taken longer but it's still more convenient than going to the main airports.

What have they offered you? Alternative dates? Replacement flights to DMK/BKK and a transfer? or just your money back?

Absolutely nothing as of yet! Only that phone call last night in very broken English. I'm hoping more facts will be revealed during today

[siam2007]

It seems they have cancelled ALL flights out of U-Tapao. can not be booked on their website at this moment, and you get a message to "contact the Airline by phone".

For sure that way they will not gain a good reputation with the Farang community.....

[Asiantravel]

It seems they have cancelled ALL flights out of U-Tapao. can not be booked on their website at this moment, and you get a message to "contact the Airline by phone".

For sure that way they will not gain a good reputation with the Farang community.....

As I hadn't received any replies to my email this morning I called them.

The first call didn't even go through and I thought oh no here we go

On the second attempt they answered and I gave them my booking reference number and they only told me the service from U-Tapao have now stopped. They told me I would receive a refund and I asked how long would that take. They said 45 days!

I instantly objected to that and said they were the ones who cancelled not me and either I receive a full refund immediately or they give me a booking on another airline (I said I didn't care which airline or which airport but I want confirmation of another ticket) and I'm not waiting 45 days.

They said they couldn't give me another ticket on another airline but they would give me the money back and they would expedite it.

So I never got to fly on them and because of this experience and the bad experience of communicating with them in the first place I never will fly on them.

[siam2007]

It seems they have cancelled ALL flights out of U-Tapao. can not be booked on their website at this moment, and you get a message to "contact the Airline by phone".

For sure that way they will not gain a good reputation with the Farang community.....

As I hadn't received any replies to my email this morning I called them.

The first call didn't even go through and I thought oh no here we go

On the second attempt they answered and I gave them my booking reference number and they only told me the service from U-Tapao have now stopped. They told me I would receive a refund and I asked how long would that take. They said 45 days!

I instantly objected to that and said they were the ones who cancelled not me and either I receive a full refund immediately or they give me a booking on another airline (I said I didn't care which airline or which airport but I want confirmation of another ticket) and I'm not waiting 45 days.

They said they couldn't give me another ticket on another airline but they would give me the money back and they would expedite it.

So I never got to fly on them and because of this experience and the bad experience of communicating with them in the first place I never will fly on them.

On their website, the CEO's email address is prominently displayed, which I first thought is a good sign. If I were you, I would send him an email directly and ask him how he wanna build a good reputation in Thailand's aviation scene if he is doing business like that......

[Asiantravel]

It seems they have cancelled ALL flights out of U-Tapao. can not be booked on their website at this moment, and you get a message to "contact the Airline by phone".

For sure that way they will not gain a good reputation with the Farang community.....

As I hadn't received any replies to my email this morning I called them.

The first call didn't even go through and I thought oh no here we go

On the second attempt they answered and I gave them my booking reference number and they only told me the service from U-Tapao have now stopped. They told me I would receive a refund and I asked how long would that take. They said 45 days!

I instantly objected to that and said they were the ones who cancelled not me and either I receive a full refund immediately or they give me a booking on another airline (I said I didn't care which airline or which airport but I want confirmation of another ticket) and I'm not waiting 45 days.

They said they couldn't give me another ticket on another airline but they would give me the money back and they would expedite it.

So I never got to fly on them and because of this experience and the bad experience of communicating with them in the first place I never will fly on them.

On their website, the CEO's email address is prominently displayed, which I first thought is a good sign. If I were you, I would send him an email directly and ask him how he wanna build a good reputation in Thailand's aviation scene if he is doing business like that......

LOL. Yes I already tried that regarding my difficulties of sending them an email in the first place. That email address shown on their website is no longer their preferred contact address and now they are using one at Gmail but no one has even bothered to put the new Gmail address on the website! Even as at today.

So when I first made enquiries about their service no one replied and it was only after I phoned them they told me about their new address

So how about telling customers huh ?

So several weeks ago I sent the CEO of friendly suggestion that it would make it much easier if someone amends their website.

Didn't even get the courtesy of a response.

[Gsxrnz]

It looks like Kan Air obviously can't.

[Chicog]

It seems they have cancelled ALL flights out of U-Tapao. can not be booked on their website at this moment, and you get a message to "contact the Airline by phone".

For sure that way they will not gain a good reputation with the Farang community.....

You think the Thai community will just laugh it off then?

[NancyL]

Nok Air pulled a similar stunt when they cancelled service between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai a few years ago. We'd booked a flight and also got a call about our flights being cancelled a few days in advance of the trip because of "technical problem". They were still showing the route on their website, so I booked the trip for other days, only to get another call about those flights being cancelled for "technical problem".

I went out to the Nok Air counter at the airport to talk with them in person and learned the real story a few days later. I got the same story about receiving a refund in 45 days. Something about needing approval from the Chiang Rai station manager. So, since I'd booked the flights with our U.S. issued credit card, I filed a claim with them and got credit immediately.

[mesquite]

Nok Air pulled a similar stunt when they cancelled service between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai a few years ago. We'd booked a flight and also got a call about our flights being cancelled a few days in advance of the trip because of "technical problem". They were still showing the route on their website, so I booked the trip for other days, only to get another call about those flights being cancelled for "technical problem".

I went out to the Nok Air counter at the airport to talk with them in person and learned the real story a few days later. I got the same story about receiving a refund in 45 days. Something about needing approval from the Chiang Rai station manager. So, since I'd booked the flights with our U.S. issued credit card, I filed a claim with them and got credit immediately.

The only way to go, and it may have been you, NancyL, who got me thinking that way. I use my US credit card as much as possible for that reason, you can file a dispute. I've done it three times in the last years - nothing in Thailand, BTW - and got credit immediately.

[Asiantravel]

Nok Air pulled a similar stunt when they cancelled service between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai a few years ago. We'd booked a flight and also got a call about our flights being cancelled a few days in advance of the trip because of "technical problem". They were still showing the route on their website, so I booked the trip for other days, only to get another call about those flights being cancelled for "technical problem".

I went out to the Nok Air counter at the airport to talk with them in person and learned the real story a few days later. I got the same story about receiving a refund in 45 days. Something about needing approval from the Chiang Rai station manager. So, since I'd booked the flights with our U.S. issued credit card, I filed a claim with them and got credit immediately.

I used Citibank Visa to pay for the tickets and I have already sent an email to tell them about the situation.

[Kellynch]

Myself, wife and son were booked on the Chiang Mai - Utapao flight on Thursday 25th June; returning the following Tuesday. We only got a call this afternoon about it being cancelled; reason given was that the military wouldn't give them permission. I wonder what number that was in the 'Book of Excuses'? I was tempted to say that a large chunk of people in this country don't seem to think they need permission to do anything, but that would do something they apparently can get organised - a flight - straight over their heads.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Myself, wife and son were booked on the Chiang Mai - Utapao flight on Thursday 25th June; returning the following Tuesday. We only got a call this afternoon about it being cancelled; reason given was that the military wouldn't give them permission. I wonder what number that was in the 'Book of Excuses'? I was tempted to say that a large chunk of people in this country don't seem to think they need permission to do anything, but that would do something they apparently can get organised - a flight - straight over their heads.

The military do own U-Tapao airport. Its run by the Thai Navy. There may be truth in this? Imagine you signal to Kan Air that the flights are all fine, go ahead with the expansion etc. Kan Air get a few ATR aircraft worth millions and millions of USD. Hire pilots ground staff. When they are fully committed with huge bills to pay left right and center you tell them they can't operate the flights. Perhaps Kan Air have to renegotiate access to UTP from this position.

[Kellynch]

Myself, wife and son were booked on the Chiang Mai - Utapao flight on Thursday 25th June; returning the following Tuesday. We only got a call this afternoon about it being cancelled; reason given was that the military wouldn't give them permission. I wonder what number that was in the 'Book of Excuses'? I was tempted to say that a large chunk of people in this country don't seem to think they need permission to do anything, but that would do something they apparently can get organised - a flight - straight over their heads.

The military do own U-Tapao airport. Its run by the Thai Navy. There may be truth in this? Imagine you signal to Kan Air that the flights are all fine, go ahead with the expansion etc. Kan Air get a few ATR aircraft worth millions and millions of USD. Hire pilots ground staff. When they are fully committed with huge bills to pay left right and center you tell them they can't operate the flights. Perhaps Kan Air have to renegotiate access to UTP from this position.

[Kellynch]

My apologies, a bit of finger trouble. I was supposed to respond including a multi-quote and misfired. Another post submitted - Sorry about that.

[Kellynch]

Myself, wife and son were booked on the Chiang Mai - Utapao flight on Thursday 25th June; returning the following Tuesday. We only got a call this afternoon about it being cancelled; reason given was that the military wouldn't give them permission. I wonder what number that was in the 'Book of Excuses'? I was tempted to say that a large chunk of people in this country don't seem to think they need permission to do anything, but that would do something they apparently can get organised - a flight - straight over their heads.

The military do own U-Tapao airport. Its run by the Thai Navy. There may be truth in this? Imagine you signal to Kan Air that the flights are all fine, go ahead with the expansion etc. Kan Air get a few ATR aircraft worth millions and millions of USD. Hire pilots ground staff. When they are fully committed with huge bills to pay left right and center you tell them they can't operate the flights. Perhaps Kan Air have to renegotiate access to UTP from this position.

I do know that the military own the airport and the excuse may have been true. Firstly, they have told at least one other person that it was for 'Technical Reasons', which is conveniently vague. Secondly, I would have expected a standard answer for all enquiries, especially in these days of social media; where conflicting information can cause mistrust and non-confidence in a brand when you give differing information to people. Thirdly, I do realise the big risks you mention in setting up on an airport in this situation but surely, given the huge expense, there would be some contractual certainties built-in. I can see the airline expecting the occasional military emergencies or periodic training causing postponements or re-routing. Having said that, my experience of seeing how business is run in this country would make me think that there could be a few scenarios, including blatant breaking of contracts. It could have been under-achieving targets, which is unfortunate yet a business risk. With all this said, the excuse given to my wife could well be generally true and the military could have just had a change of plan and we don't know the details, including the airline getting due contractual recompense. The difficulty for the airline is that they don't appear to be 'managing' the situation all that well. If it isn't working for Kan then I do feel for them as they gave it a try, but these things happen in business. Some times things just don't work out all that well and you just move on, some can live with that and others can't.

[NancyL]

Nok Air pulled a similar stunt when they cancelled service between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai a few years ago. We'd booked a flight and also got a call about our flights being cancelled a few days in advance of the trip because of "technical problem". They were still showing the route on their website, so I booked the trip for other days, only to get another call about those flights being cancelled for "technical problem".

I went out to the Nok Air counter at the airport to talk with them in person and learned the real story a few days later. I got the same story about receiving a refund in 45 days. Something about needing approval from the Chiang Rai station manager. So, since I'd booked the flights with our U.S. issued credit card, I filed a claim with them and got credit immediately.

I used Citibank Visa to pay for the tickets and I have already sent an email to tell them about the situation.

I can view our credit card activity on-line and next to each transaction there is a live link that says "dispute" where I can immediately file a claim. Don't know if other credit cards offer a similar feature with their on-line activity reporting. Good to be filing right away. When a business says it will take six weeks to process a refund, they may be trying to stall so you'll be beyond the window of opportunity you have to file a claim with the credit card company. Of course, if it were a Thai-issued credit card, you wouldn't have this protection, so maybe I'm just thinking they're being devious about the six week claim, when actually they're not. But, having run a retail business, I know it only take 2 - 3 days for a credit to be processed and show up on your account.

[CNXBKKMAN]

I am not an expert on payment systems but could it be possible that the online credit card payment system that Kan Air uses, probably run by a third party might not actually pay the airline until some point after you made the booking? You pay today but the airline only gets the money a month later in a bulk payment? This may be the answer why they don't refund very fast. They may not have got your payment yet?

[Asiantravel]

Myself, wife and son were booked on the Chiang Mai - Utapao flight on Thursday 25th June; returning the following Tuesday. We only got a call this afternoon about it being cancelled; reason given was that the military wouldn't give them permission. I wonder what number that was in the 'Book of Excuses'? I was tempted to say that a large chunk of people in this country don't seem to think they need permission to do anything, but that would do something they apparently can get organised - a flight - straight over their heads.

The military do own U-Tapao airport. Its run by the Thai Navy. There may be truth in this? Imagine you signal to Kan Air that the flights are all fine, go ahead with the expansion etc. Kan Air get a few ATR aircraft worth millions and millions of USD. Hire pilots ground staff. When they are fully committed with huge bills to pay left right and center you tell them they can't operate the flights. Perhaps Kan Air have to renegotiate access to UTP from this position.

I do know that the military own the airport and the excuse may have been true. Firstly, they have told at least one other person that it was for 'Technical Reasons', which is conveniently vague. Secondly, I would have expected a standard answer for all enquiries, especially in these days of social media; where conflicting information can cause mistrust and non-confidence in a brand when you give differing information to people. Thirdly, I do realise the big risks you mention in setting up on an airport in this situation but surely, given the huge expense, there would be some contractual certainties built-in. I can see the airline expecting the occasional military emergencies or periodic training causing postponements or re-routing. Having said that, my experience of seeing how business is run in this country would make me think that there could be a few scenarios, including blatant breaking of contracts. It could have been under-achieving targets, which is unfortunate yet a business risk. With all this said, the excuse given to my wife could well be generally true and the military could have just had a change of plan and we don't know the details, including the airline getting due contractual recompense. The difficulty for the airline is that they don't appear to be 'managing' the situation all that well. If it isn't working for Kan then I do feel for them as they gave it a try, but these things happen in business. Some times things just don't work out all that well and you just move on, some can live with that and others can't.

I just think it’s been handled very poorly.

Why is it that only some people received an email wherasI received just a telephone call from someone who clearly couldn’t even communicate effectively in English.

And by now every ticketed passenger should have received an email from the CEO explaining exactly why it was necessary to cancel all these bookings. How long would that have taken him to write and then pass on to his staff to make sure they were distributed to everyone who held tickets?

As of today none of us know for sure why this happened and I agree with you entirely that it causes mistrust and loss of confidence in that brand.

[NancyL]

I am not an expert on payment systems but could it be possible that the online credit card payment system that Kan Air uses, probably run by a third party might not actually pay the airline until some point after you made the booking? You pay today but the airline only gets the money a month later in a bulk payment? This may be the answer why they don't refund very fast. They may not have got your payment yet?

I highly doubt this explanation, based on my experience in running a retail business in the U.S. We got confirmation of a transaction's validity immediately and the funds were deposited into our bank account the next day.

American Express had some sort of two-tiered program where a business could pay a higher fee and get their funds the next day or wait a month for money to be deposited and pay the same (lower) fee that they paid for Visa/Master Card. This is why many small businesses in the U.S. don't accept American Express, because they either don't want to wait a month for money to be deposited and/or they didn't want to pay a higher fee to get funds for customer purchases deposited the next day

I asked the American Express people if went with their "wait a month for our money" program what would happen if we had to give a customer a refund. No problem -- just give them a credit and the customer would get the credit on their account immediately. We didn't have to wait for the customer's purchase to be deposited into our bank account. Duh! It would just show up as a credit against the funds that would be deposited on our behalf.

In the end, we didn't sign up for American Express merchant services. We could run our business by offering our customers the ability to purchase with just Visa, Master Card and, surprisingly we found Discover cards had a very loyal following. We almost didn't go with Discover card services, but the Master Card people "threw them in" as a near freebie.

[Ricardo]

Perhaps the airline might be re-named "Kan-Not" ?

[TheAppletons]

Perhaps the airline might be re-named "Kan-Not" ?

I was going to suggest Kan't Airlines but was afraid of the metaphysical implications that might entail.

[CNXBKKMAN]

I am not an expert on payment systems but could it be possible that the online credit card payment system that Kan Air uses, probably run by a third party might not actually pay the airline until some point after you made the booking? You pay today but the airline only gets the money a month later in a bulk payment? This may be the answer why they don't refund very fast. They may not have got your payment yet?

I highly doubt this explanation, based on my experience in running a retail business in the U.S. We got confirmation of a transaction's validity immediately and the funds were deposited into our bank account the next day.

American Express had some sort of two-tiered program where a business could pay a higher fee and get their funds the next day or wait a month for money to be deposited and pay the same (lower) fee that they paid for Visa/Master Card. This is why many small businesses in the U.S. don't accept American Express, because they either don't want to wait a month for money to be deposited and/or they didn't want to pay a higher fee to get funds for customer purchases deposited the next day

I asked the American Express people if went with their "wait a month for our money" program what would happen if we had to give a customer a refund. No problem -- just give them a credit and the customer would get the credit on their account immediately. We didn't have to wait for the customer's purchase to be deposited into our bank account. Duh! It would just show up as a credit against the funds that would be deposited on our behalf.

In the end, we didn't sign up for American Express merchant services. We could run our business by offering our customers the ability to purchase with just Visa, Master Card and, surprisingly we found Discover cards had a very loyal following. We almost didn't go with Discover card services, but the Master Card people "threw them in" as a near freebie.

Were you taking online payments from the shops website like an airline would or just at the shop itself or over the telephone? Kan Air is a small airline and whoever has put their website together may have bolted on another specialist online payment company to handle the card transactions. Who has all the know how to make it secure and up to date.

It could be as simple as Kan Air don't have many staff doing refunds? Like you say if you want to be refunded quicker than what the airline offers you have to dispute the payment with card company.

[NancyL]

I am not an expert on payment systems but could it be possible that the online credit card payment system that Kan Air uses, probably run by a third party might not actually pay the airline until some point after you made the booking? You pay today but the airline only gets the money a month later in a bulk payment? This may be the answer why they don't refund very fast. They may not have got your payment yet?

I highly doubt this explanation, based on my experience in running a retail business in the U.S. We got confirmation of a transaction's validity immediately and the funds were deposited into our bank account the next day.

American Express had some sort of two-tiered program where a business could pay a higher fee and get their funds the next day or wait a month for money to be deposited and pay the same (lower) fee that they paid for Visa/Master Card. This is why many small businesses in the U.S. don't accept American Express, because they either don't want to wait a month for money to be deposited and/or they didn't want to pay a higher fee to get funds for customer purchases deposited the next day

I asked the American Express people if went with their "wait a month for our money" program what would happen if we had to give a customer a refund. No problem -- just give them a credit and the customer would get the credit on their account immediately. We didn't have to wait for the customer's purchase to be deposited into our bank account. Duh! It would just show up as a credit against the funds that would be deposited on our behalf.

In the end, we didn't sign up for American Express merchant services. We could run our business by offering our customers the ability to purchase with just Visa, Master Card and, surprisingly we found Discover cards had a very loyal following. We almost didn't go with Discover card services, but the Master Card people "threw them in" as a near freebie.

Were you taking online payments from the shops website like an airline would or just at the shop itself or over the telephone? Kan Air is a small airline and whoever has put their website together may have bolted on another specialist online payment company to handle the card transactions. Who has all the know how to make it secure and up to date.

It could be as simple as Kan Air don't have many staff doing refunds? Like you say if you want to be refunded quicker than what the airline offers you have to dispute the payment with card company.

You're right -- we were just handling transactions in the retail shop or over the phone. Our website didn't have a "shopping-cart feature", so admittedly I don't know how that end of the retail world works. I doubt that a third party would hold onto Kan Air's money for 30 days. We did have a "store front" on Amazon.com for some items and Amazon deposited money into our bank account within five days of a customer placing an order/paying with a credit card.