Foreigners That Are Exempted From The Visa

[beammeup]

What seems to stand out to me is "counting from date of first entry". This leads me to believe that they will only look at stamps that have been stamped within 6 months and count from date of first entry. I have been wrong in the past though!!

[andyc2006]

I think regardless of the number times,

They will look to the earliest entree stamp,

within the last 90 days.

and use that.

Of course this will REALLY cause immigration slowdowns

as they jot down stamps on various pages trying to find

your LAST 6 MONTHS of Thai visa history.

my bets/predictions:

i think they will selectively enforce the rules, based on whether they think you're using the 30-day free entry repeatedly to "live" in thailand indefinitely.

after the 1st week or so, they won't even look at the passports of people who fly into thailand from overseas...

they'll just check on people coming in over land or flying in from the less expensive asian countries.

and even then, i don't think they'll bother counting days unless something looks suspicious... if you have 19 stamps for thailand, well, then expect them to scrutinize the passport and count the days, and enforce the rule. but if you have 4, they'll probably just stamp your 30-day entry and take the next visitor.

they'll always have the option enforce the rules, but they won't spend time trying to enforce it unless they suspect you're abusing their guest system to live in thailand.

good for them.

[cclub75]

they'll just check on people coming in over land or flying in from the less expensive asian countries.

and even then, i don't think they'll bother counting days unless something looks suspicious... if you have 19 stamps for thailand, well, then expect them to scrutinize the passport and count the days, and enforce the rule. but if you have 4, they'll probably just stamp your 30-day entry and take the next visitor.

You have a point. But don't forget that they have computer system. And maybe at the new airport, it has been upgrated.

On the other hand, it would make sense regarding their statement about "decentralization" (see the page on the Immigration website).

[A_Traveller]

3. According the Article 13 (3) of the Ministerial Regulation which stipulated the criterions, practices and conditions regarding the verification, exception and the changes in the visa requirements B.E. 2545 (2002) dated on 16th August B.E. 2545 (2002), within six months period, the holder of passport or substitutive documents which issued by any country that is approved by the Minister of the Interior, under the approval of the Cabinet, to enter to temporarily stay in Thailand for tourism purpose, shall be permitted to enter Thailand several times. Each permitted time shall not be exceeding [This implies that one day stay is the equivalent of 30 days] 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand. [Therefore one may enter more than 3 times but after 90 days have elapsed from the date of first entry, that is it. To clarify, assuming my imprecation is correct, if over a 90 day period from first date of arrival the traveller uses the 30 day stamp process 10 times that's OK, however, once 90 day have elapsed from date of first entry the 30 day stamp process will be unavailable for the period specified herein, six months {curious it's not 180 days}, and there is no indication as to the application of this, e.g. Retrospective]

1. you are ignoring that this is translated from thai. this is very tortured english, and obviously wasn't easily translated. we can sit here debating how to interpret it, but it is very likely that we have lost all ability to do that, not because of our limited intellects, but because of what is lost in translation. Agreed, I and others are trying to get an original to subject it to that very analysis, further there is no indication who was responsible for the translation, as I said my aim was to add to the discussion. I would also point out that the new information on the immigration web site adds to the confusion of exactly what is being said here. It also seems to expand the changes in other areas as well

2. i don't agree that that saying "each permitted time shall not be exceeding" implies that "one day stay is the equivalent of 30 days."

3. you completely ignore the "within six months period," phrase in line 3, which sets context for the rest of the paragraph, including the part that says, "the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand." a perfectly legit interpretation, given the "within 6 months period" clause, is that "within the 6 month period of the first day you enter thailand, you can't stay more than 90 days total," and this is the way i personally read it. On the basis of dealing with the {stamp} issue elsewhere I have had experience where the authorities take any use of an entry stamp to count as the maximum time allotted. This is the position here, with a single entry visa after all, unless a reentry permit is approved. Something which is not possible, by definition, for a Visa Waiver {30 day stamp}

but again, our opinions on this are pointless. we have no authority and we're not thai legal experts, we're simply a bunch of guys interpreting an english translation of a thai rule. Though it's to be hoped we do it with some elan

we'll know soon enough what these new rules really mean when the thai employees who check passports at the borders and airports explain it to us, by implementing the new rules. On that I hope you are wrong, since the implications of this, especially if you are right, are considerable for the airlines, the immigration bureau itself, and how the transitional arrangements, if any, are going to be managed.

Thanks and Regards

[dotcom]

I am so confused, I am coming to Thailand on sep 26th. I want to stay for 6 months. I have a 60 day tourist visa which (I think) I can extend for 30 more days, I (think) I can do 3 border runs and get 3 x VOAs hence giving me 6 months.

Can I stay for 6 months?

From what I understand, you can do 60 days, go to the immigration office and pay (1900b) to extend another 30 days. You could then pay again to extend 15 days. After that I think you could do a couple of border runs but not 3 of them.

As a previous reply said, it would be best to have paid for more than one entry when you applied for that visa. Maybe you still have time to change it and pay a bit extra to get another entry on the tourist visa.

Don't you just love that "back" button. 5555 what bullshit advice? indeed!!!

[F1 Visa Runner]

If they were smart, they would allow 2 thirty day extentions on permits and charge 1900 for each. That way they can monitor exactly whats going on, and make alot of cash in the process.

But TIT

This would be a great thing for Thailand to do. The extension money also gets into the system the right way and is not lost to corruption.

It would generate millions of baht everyday for the thai people.

Instead they are giving it away to visa run companies where half of it are just lost in fuel costs.

Edited September 14, 2006 by F1 Visa Runner

[bkk_mike]

There are a lot of 'dodgy' people here who have no money and no WP. More than a few have warrants from their native countries. They scrounge around somehow and make the monthly 'visa run' usually on public transportation. The problem for Immigration; how to rid the country of this vermin but not run off some of the 'good folks' (with money, internet job maybe, etc.) in the process? Not an easy problem to solve. If I'm reading things right coming back in country by plane and you're okay.......the vermin can't afford this.

I think this has less to do with "vermin", as you so elequently put it, and the (as yet completely theoretical) opening of the new airport....

For a law that's been on the statute books for 4 years, I think it's enforcement now has more to do with the immigration computer system rollout being complete than anything else.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that any genuine tourists who want to spend more than 90 days in Thailand can get a Tourist visa. Believe me, it's easier than for a Thai national getting a visa to go somewhere in the west. (We'd be up in arms if we had to take 6 months bank statements and proof of home ownership to the Thai embassy in order to get a tourist visa, yet the US, Britain, Oz, all ask for that from Thais...)

There is a possibility this will affect frequent visitors who live elsewhere in Asia. (i.e. Expats in Hong Kong / Singapore who come to Thailand regularly. - but only if it's implemented at the airport, and applied based on entries, not the number of days spent in the country.) In these cases, I'd expect immigration to act with some common sense, and allow them to continue spending the money they earn elsewhere in Thailand. (After all - they're flying in, and the airlines will kick up a fuss if frequent travellers start getting refused entry, as the airline will be liable for the cost of taking them back... - especially on the 3 x 30 day rule where they may be unable to check themselves at the time of check-in - i.e. the person may have had a new passport in the last few months...)

The people who this will really affect aren't tourists. They're people who live here, but who don't have Thai relatives, and who are not old enough to get the retirement visa, and who don't work here, or at least, aren't employed in Thailand.

Those who are working in Thailand will have to go legal. (i.e. If you're working for a Thai company, you should be on a 'B' visa, with a work permit. If anything, the fact you can't do visa runs any more will give you better leverage with the company to get things sorted out, as it's the company's responsibility to sort out the work permit...)

The only people left that I feel are a bit hard done by are the retirees who are under 50, and the telecommuters (or other people, such as writers, who are getting paid (and taxed) abroad for work that is done remotely.) There is no visa category for them, unless they want to set up a company (which, ridiculously, for what would be 1-man companies, would have to be 51% Thai-owned).

[sossn]

well i beleive this will be at the decission of the immigration officer and i dont think the days wil add up to 90 either and also nothing about mulitiple entr tourist visas except penang isnt issuing dueal ones now Help

[chucky66]

Ive read though pages and pages about this change now and I cant see a clear answer to my question. have I missed it somewhere?:

Q) Do the 90 days permitted in a 6 month period only apply to visa exemptions?

e.g. In a 6 month period could you have 90 days using 3 x 30 VOE and then 90 days using a single entry tourist visa (60 + 30)?

C66*

[Totster]

Q) Do the 90 days permitted in a 6 month period only apply to visa exemptions?

Yes.

totster

[fimo]

Q) Do the 90 days permitted in a 6 month period only apply to visa exemptions?

e.g. In a 6 month period could you have 90 days using 3 x 30 VOE and then 90 days using a single entry tourist visa (60 + 30)?

Yes you will be able to do that !

Trip do Penang for a single entry tourist visa = 12.000 bahts

3 VR to Cambodia = 6.000 bahts

It will cost you only 1.000 bahts more per month... not a big deal !

[chucky66]

But if you can do this and also get back to back tourist visas with visa exemptions (i.e: using a tourist visa during the VOE cooling off period) then does it not make a whole mockery of what this 'supposed' clampdown is about (i.e: stopping illegal workers) as this would permit almost limitless stays in Thailand? The only difference between the old rules and the new ones are that they create more confusion for everyone and the immigration get more revenue from visas?

C66*

Edited September 14, 2006 by chucky66

[A_Traveller]

Q) Do the 90 days permitted in a 6 month period only apply to visa exemptions?

e.g. In a 6 month period could you have 90 days using 3 x 30 VOE and then 90 days using a single entry tourist visa (60 + 30)?

Yes you will be able to do that !

Trip do Penang for a single entry tourist visa = 12.000 bahts

3 VR to Cambodia = 6.000 bahts

It will cost you only 1.000 bahts more per month... not a big deal !

Just a warning here, there is no evidence to support this.

If the reason for the change is to enforce the Immigration Act, which stipulates 'Touring' at 90 days maximum, then it is possible that the extension of 30 days to the inital visa will no longer be automatic, and further that {30 day stamp} runs may be subject to review if you have a tourist visa in your passport, or vice versa.

Regards

/edit add vice versa//

Edited September 14, 2006 by A_Traveller

[fimo]

But if you can do this and also get back to back Tourist visas then does it not make a whole mockery of what this 'supposed' clampdown is about (i.e: stopping illegal workers)?

Many illegal workers won't be able to pay a trip to Malaysia !

99% of the farang communauty won't be concerned...

[harrybua]

I think regardless of the number times,

They will look to the earliest entree stamp,

within the last 90 days.

and use that.

Of course this will REALLY cause immigration slowdowns

as they jot down stamps on various pages trying to find

your LAST 6 MONTHS of Thai visa history.

my bets/predictions:

i think they will selectively enforce the rules, based on whether they think you're using the 30-day free entry repeatedly to "live" in thailand indefinitely.

after the 1st week or so, they won't even look at the passports of people who fly into thailand from overseas...

they'll just check on people coming in over land or flying in from the less expensive asian countries.

and even then, i don't think they'll bother counting days unless something looks suspicious... if you have 19 stamps for thailand, well, then expect them to scrutinize the passport and count the days, and enforce the rule. but if you have 4, they'll probably just stamp your 30-day entry and take the next visitor.

they'll always have the option enforce the rules, but they won't spend time trying to enforce it unless they suspect you're abusing their guest system to live in thailand.

good for them.

So if you have 2 passports oyu can go out on one and then come back on the other is this ok

[Jing Joe]

Seems like the "tortured English" translation is just another piece of work that someone in yet another country got a Uni degree in law in order to express it in the universal B.S. language of Gobblydegook.

George's thumbnail explanation with just 51 English words explains the basics.

It exceeds my travel needs there.

Good luck folks in sorting it all out for your own needs for what ever reasons.

[fimo]

If the reason for the change is to enforce the Immigration Act, which stipulates 'Touring' at 90 days maximum, then it is possible that the extension of 30 days to the inital visa will no longer be automatic, and further that {30 day stamp} runs may be subject to review if you have a tourist visa in your passport, or vice versa.

I interpret the new application:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/newpro.html

The 90 days limit in 6 month concerns the VOA, not the visas obtained in foreign ambassies.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it may be a solution...

There are other solutions: go back to your contry and get a triple entries visa, or a non-immigrant visa... All those solutions will cost more money than a VR to Cambodia for 2.000 bahts.

If they want to stop illegal workers, this solution is not too bad !

[hertog]

I´m 46 years old. I bought a house for 5.6 milj bath and Thai gov. will not allow me to stay there after dec. this year. I think there is more people like me out there. Can anybody explaine how to do. The prices on house will drop! Or???

Last time I looked a foreigner cannot own land in Thailand. If you decided to bend the rules and therefore could not get the 3 Mln investor visa, I would say change your post and dont make it look to us as if you are some kind of victim.

[wpcoe]

Last time I looked a foreigner cannot own land in Thailand.

True, but not technically what he was saying, if you give him the benefit of the doubt: One can OWN the STRUCTURE (house) and have a long-term lease on the land. Perfectly legal, and if that's what he did, I wish him luck.

[suiging]

I´m 46 years old. I bought a house for 5.6 milj bath and Thai gov. will not allow me to stay there after dec. this year. I think there is more people like me out there. Can anybody explaine how to do. The prices on house will drop! Or???

Last time I looked a foreigner cannot own land in Thailand. If you decided to bend the rules and therefore could not get the 3 Mln investor visa, I would say change your post and dont make it look to us as if you are some kind of victim.

Whoooa, hang on a bit. Many on here are now playing a similar tune that all home owners who went the company route deserve evrything they get. Please remember the vast majority came to the LOS, found they loved the place, then being ignorant of the local laws first took advice from an agent and nine times out of ten followed that up with advice from a THAI lawyer. All in the chain smoothing the way with their words of wisdom. What else would you have done? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as is membership of this board, but for many, this fountain of wisdomcame later after they thought they had done the right thing by taking advice from a local officer of the courts, who's back wall was covered with all the tin foil you could wish for telling the world he was qualified to offer opinion on his own countries legal system.

[Scott]

This is so complicated. I am sure glad I have a work permit. It does affect people where I work, but I don't think I'll be able to sort out who or how for a while.

[balikbayan]

Have you seen how many people are reading this?!?!?!

It affects many many people and some might just be worried. This MIGHT only be the start of more bad news. Since the cutting of the investment visa and tourist visas, I would think that they might just tighten all the screws on visas.

Who knows what falls out of the wood work in the next few months.

i couldn't agree more.....next thing we know is they'll be taking away non immig."o" visas.e.g.dependent visa when your spouse has a working permit and u depend on that visa.i do know a lot of people on that level of visa.and then they will tighten up tourists visas as well,whoever tought that they'll get tourist visas easily must be out of their mind...or again i maybe wrong

[balikbayan]

Does any of this affect non-immigrant B (Business visas), retirement visas, marriage visas, student visas, or anything else besides Tourist Visas?

No, only repeated 30 days border runners are affected.

yes only repeated 30 days border runners are affected;but who knows what will happen next.

[thaihome]

.....next thing we know is they'll be taking away non immig."o" visas.e.g.dependent visa when your spouse has a working permit and u depend on that visa.i do know a lot of people on that level of visa.and then they will tighten up tourists visas as well,whoever tought that they'll get tourist visas easily must be out of their mind...or again i maybe wrong

TH

[Mikey7]

.....next thing we know is they'll be taking away non immig."o" visas.e.g.dependent visa when your spouse has a working permit and u depend on that visa.i do know a lot of people on that level of visa.and then they will tighten up tourists visas as well,whoever tought that they'll get tourist visas easily must be out of their mind...or again i maybe wrong

TH

Remember folks we are dealing with Thai immigration. This is the group that has a different set of rules depending on who you talk to and what mood they are in at the time. If you try to do VOA after 90 days on a tourist visa it will probably depend on the Immigration Officers decision at the time you how up. scary huh? The problem for the rest of us will be that a large number of Visa runners will go ahead and try for a different Visa like the non o which will probably cause a crack down in that area. Life is so much fun.

[paulmw]

Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand.

as I see it you won't be allowed back in regardless of how many days you actually spend in Thailand as the countdown starts from the very first day....so if you use Bkk as a base to fly around S.E. Asia and fly out three times you won't get back in after 90 days around the region.

A voa expires when you leave and the days don't carry over.

I don't think so, because they haven't mentioned three times, they stated several...

some countries are not entitled to 30 days ... but still a total of 90 apparently

Sadly this does not tell us HOW this will be implemented. Does the count start with stamps on Oct 1? or does it start in October for the past 90 days/6months

it dosn't say ... stay tuned for Tmw's update

I think this is what many would like to know when does the clock start ticking before the 1st or on the 1st

paul

[sabaijai]

3. According the Article 13 (3) of the Ministerial Regulation which stipulated the criterions, practices and conditions regarding the verification, exception and the changes in the visa requirements B.E. 2545 (2002) dated on 16th August B.E. 2545 (2002), within six months period, the holder of passport or substitutive documents which issued by any country that is approved by the Minister of the Interior, under the approval of the Cabinet, to enter to temporarily stay in Thailand for tourism purpose, shall be permitted to enter Thailand several times. Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand.

If the above translation is accurate then I don't believe this new rule will/can be applied universally because it doesn't make sense to apply a rule like this to for example a European working in Singapore who has frequent 1 day business meetings in Bangkok, or someone living in Vietnam who does his shopping in Bangkok. If someone would enter once for 3 days in January I find it implausible that he will be forbidden to enter Thailand between March and July.

This sounds to me like a law which can be applied selectively to certain individuals, ie: the back to back entry stamp border runner. It will be a convenient unambiguous piece of text which an immigration official can wave in the face of an angry farang who's pissed he's being denied his umpteenth consecutive entry stamp.

I totally agree. I don't see the Thais enforcing the new regs at international airports at all. Will have to wait and see.

[alotofsalesforyou]

This covers 30 day as well as tourisy or non visa, you can only stay 90 days in a 6 month period unless you have a work permit, a marriage visa or a retirement visa

[alotofsalesforyou]

But they have said this all before and only carried out the rule of 6 months then got fed up, after the election could all dissapear again

[LivinLOS]

OK well this does seem to start to become clearer but a point no one seems to have brought up..

If someone comes to Thailand 25 days in a month.. That process is repeated 3 times.. Theres now 15 days (3 x 5) spare left over in the 90 days per month quota right.. So is immigration now going to be marking the VOA stamps with periods less than 30 days ?? Will immigration be sussing out days left in credit and changing the exit date for each person if close.. Seems massive and unworkable workload.

I cannot see that happening.

Second thing.. Within all this legalese they are using two seperate and distinct time values.. One element is 'days' as in 30 days allowed and another is 'months' which are not 30 days long.

Now lets say the traveller population that arrive into Thailand during the period August 29 30 and 31.. When does thier clock reset ?? Does it reset on Feb 28th ?? Or March 1st 2nd 3rd ?? And if so what about people arriving for the first time Sept 1st 2nd 3rd.. Are they going to get a lesser '6 months' than someone elses '6 months'.

Are they really saying that a person comes in on 11 PM on Feb 28th gets a 6 month clock that starts and ends On August 28th but a person who arrives 2 hours later gets to stay 3 days longer ?? Although to a lesser extent this confusion happens throughout the year with 30 and 31 day months.

Again poorly concieved or worded and unworkable calculation for the traveller to know his exact legal position.