Regional Thai Embassies More Restrictive

[Siam International Legal Group]

Now that the visa requirements are scheduled to be more restrictive inside Thailand starting October 1, we are beginning to see the changes in the regional Thai Embassies and Consulates for business visa application requirements.

We sent our client to the Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia with the proper documents to apply for a non-immigrant business visa for 90 days. Now the Thai Embassy in KL is requiring a certified copy of the business registration documents for his Thai Limited Company BEFORE issuing the business visa. We are in the process of setting up his Thai company for him in Bangkok. Previously, we had provided our own company documents as the sponsor for securing the non-immigrant business visa for 90 days. Typically, the client will go outside to Malaysia to obtain a non-immigrant business visa (if they don't already have one) in order to apply for the work permit.

Our staff made calls today to the Thai Embassies in KL, Phnom Penh (Cambodia) and Vientiane (Lao), and the Thai Consulate in Hong Kong. The visa officers in each Embassy/Consulate verified that the Managing Director of that company must be the person signing the "guarantee" letter requesting the visa, a detailed description of job in that company and that all company documents (every last one of them) must be included with the application. This is a significant change and more restrictive from the previous requirements. By the way, we attempted to contact the Thai Consulate in Peneng but the telephone was engaged all day long. Remember that the information given out by the visa officer at one particular Thai Embassy or Consulate can vary greatly from another.

If you are interested in starting a business in Thailand it is still possible to obtain the non-immigrant business visa in a nearby Thai Embassy/Consulate, however, the company must be registered first and the Thai visa application comes after. Our ability to assist our Thai visa clients in USA and UK is unaffected by these new stricter guidelines so I highly recommend applying for your Thai Visa in your home country. Don’t leave home without it!

Dennis Ramm

www.siam-legal.com

Interesting note: We counted the telephone calls to our 7 offices (Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Samui, Hua Hin, Pattaya, and Jomtien) on Wednesday this week. We received 179 calls asking about the new visa regulations.

[danone]

highly interesting, tks for this detailed post.

I'm amazed at the efficiency of those authorities.

changing a policy consistently and within days - chapeau.

[Siam International Legal Group]

We were able to contact the Thai Consulate in Peneng Malaysia late in the day regarding the business visa applications. They will be following the more restrictive guidelines as well. In addition, they advised us that their Consulate NO longer will issue DOUBLE entry tourist visas.

[cclub75]

Once again, it's not a surprise.

The "visa run" issue (30 days visa exemption) is actually a much more large one...

A crack down on visa runers means to be more restrictive on tourist visas, business visas etc.

Next step : we will have new conditions for mariage and retirement visas.

This is why the official explaination of the crack down ("fight against people who are working without WP") is only the peak of the iceberg.

The real aim is to reduce (at least to control) the total number of foreigners living in Thailand.

[The Coder]

The real aim is to reduce (at least to control) the total number of foreigners living in Thailand.

While that may be the outcome, I don't think that is the goal. The goal is for everyone to obtain the appropriate type of visa for their situation.

[taxin]

We were able to contact the Thai Consulate in Peneng Malaysia late in the day regarding the business visa applications. They will be following the more restrictive guidelines as well. In addition, they advised us that their Consulate NO longer will issue DOUBLE entry tourist visas.

This is getting very exciting ! So in other words all these people who will now be attempting to get B visas through non existing companies, sorry "not quite ready" companies will also get knocked back ?

Hey, I could make some money out of this !!

I have an existing company which can support B visa applications, anyone want to buy a B visa ?

Serious bidders only please by PM !

[loveandlaughter]

Hardly surprising.

Work Permits are meant not as a DIY fix.

The hiring company should be already a going concern and have registered capital etc.

Siam Int, Sunbelt and all the others are helping out for a good fee, as they are not the employer in a way it is still rule bending for tourists who suddenly want to change but haven't a post with a real employer.

Better to sort it all out first at home.

[jbsears]

This makes no sense. How is someone supposed to start a company if they are not allowed to legally be in Thailand to start the company. Are they now expected to pay people in Thailand to totally start up the company and once it is up and running, they can then enter Thailand and head their own company. Shouldn't there be a temporary business visa for those just starting their business and then have them get a longer, more permenant visa once the business has been established.

[chuckygobyebye]

It should be pointed out that registering a company alone will not entitle for the extension of stay to your non-Imm B visa (of 12 months). To qualify your company must show a history of operation and employment of Thais*. Thus, even after setting up your company and getting a work permit, you'll still be doing visa runs to each three months foreign consulates -- unless you can get the 12-month multi entry B visa** for, say, six months. After which the FA department will sit on your application and make you extend it a few times.

I've said if before and I'll say it again, if Thailand wants people to stay legally, the best way is to make it easier for people who are already here. Most visa runners are honest people, nobody likes doing runs but the difficulties in going legal make (or made) visa runs a cheaper and easier option.

* Not sure if a sole employee company will be exempt.

** Which are getting as rare as hen's teeth and still require you to renew your permit and leave every three months.

[pascharay]

wait until the dust settles from the Bangkok immigration meeting on 9/15

Everything will be clearer then

if necessary then you can start panicking and until then keep investing in beer rather than condos

[dcychan]

Go visit the website of Thai Immigration or Ministry of Foreign Affairs, you can get all the information on all types of visa applications and requirements. Have been working in Thailand

since 1989 and didn't have problem in getting the non immig B visa. The Immig Office in BKK

is willing to extend the visa if applicant can provide all the documents to prove application

of work permit or BOI privileges are in process.

leo

[Foggy Bottom]

This is beginning to sound like the death-throes of an administration that knows it's on its way out, and knows that a large part of the enlightening of the masses came from foreigners, not from Thais.

Simplest illustration - 31 July 2002 - Thaksin pays back the IMF loan, against all advice, and declares Thailand's financial institutions "free of foreign interference and control" (we know now why he wanted that don't we Temasek?)

27 Dec 2003 Thaksin announces that Thailand does not need foreign financial aid for the tsunami clear-up, and the BBC announces that he may be right because "only 47% (forty seven) of Thai GDP is being used to pay off foreign debt".

You can fool some of the people some of the time .......

Next announcement will probably be a massive tightening of the rules for Press Visas (I hope not, but am not holding my breath on it).

Gaz

[DerringDo]

Looks like they're going to tighten up all the visa classes. Which is fair enough in my book.

Too many people are posting about "soft touch" consulates and it'll only be a matter of time before orders go out to them all.

No need to panic just yet, for everyone concerned, it'll take some time to settle down.

[jbsears]

There is one thing that I don't understand. I would really appreciate someone clarifying immigration's reasoning.

They are supposedly doing the tightening to get everybody on the proper visa/work permit and to get them to start paying their income taxes. Controlling border runs makes since but making it harder for people to get the proper visa like this business visa does not. Also, if they want everyone to get legal they need to make it easier to get a work permit, not harder. The main reason teachers are here without permits is not that they don't qualify, it is the schools are too lazy to do the paper work. All of us who have been here for a while know that thais are not the most productive people, so why don't they make it easier for the thais that have to do the paper work for their foreign employee's work permit.

[Fletcher]

I live in Myanmar (have done for 8 years), but I travel to BKK every 2 weeks for the weekend, I call it a sanity break. I also own a condo in BKK. Up to now I have always used the 'on arrival' visa. I have all the correct Visas / Stay Permits for Myanmar, so its clear I am not a border runner, but for me to visit Thailand now is starting to become a serious problem as:

1) Investment visa is 'no-more' from the end of the month.

2) I dont have a business in Thailand, so it looks like a Multiple Entry B Visa is out.

3) Am not married to a Thai so no 'O' visa.

What other options are there given that I make 24 trips to Thailand each year!!

I just spoke to the Thai embassy here and explained the situation, her only assurances were that despite all the recent immigrations meetings, she wasn't sure exactly what was going to happen because the rules aren't clear yet!! So I'm not exactly reassured.

There are lots of people here in a similar situation, I would imagine in Laos and Cambodia too. Hope the embassies are allowed to use discretion.

[george]

Several posts removed. This topic is a about NON-B,

(Non-Immigrant Visa Class "B") and nothing else!

For tourist visa questions, retirement or marriage visa extensions,

please go to our Visa forum and choose the correct topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=1

Thanks

/Admin

[VanZam]

I can't see much wrong with this new change, it just means you have be more organized before you arrive.

I do think that Thailand needs some sort of temp business visa, as, for those that come on short business trips, its a hel_l of a lot of paperwork to go through for what maybe a 1 week trip.

Im more worried about any changes they make to type O requirements, which will directly affect many families.

[MaiChai]

Here is a senario that is not covered well: people who come into Thailand to work on a project (typically up to three months). I do alot of these projects all over the world. Most countries understand this and will allow you in on the basis of 'business' (tick the reason for visiting as 'business'). However, in Thailand you would be clearly breaking the law. I mean working on a short term project when you are paid in your home country. Example: telco engineers comming in to do an upgrade. What about if you came here for a business meeting (1/2 days). Thats breaking the law? Common sense would say that it shoudl be allowed and you don't need a visa?

[llewynx]

Common sense would say that it shoudl be allowed and you don't need a visa?

This is Thailand. Common sense doesn't apply here

[jdinasia]

Here is a senario that is not covered well: people who come into Thailand to work on a project (typically up to three months). I do alot of these projects all over the world. Most countries understand this and will allow you in on the basis of 'business' (tick the reason for visiting as 'business'). However, in Thailand you would be clearly breaking the law. I mean working on a short term project when you are paid in your home country. Example: telco engineers comming in to do an upgrade. What about if you came here for a business meeting (1/2 days). Thats breaking the law? Common sense would say that it shoudl be allowed and you don't need a visa?

You need a non-imm and a work-permit to be legal

[yulie]

Dear Mr. Mobiryder (devil!!)

I agree with you to some degree, but i for one earn close to 80k and still go on monthly visa runs to Burma. Simply because its the least troublesome way of living in this great country. I tried several ways to stay in Thailand using different visas. Tourist visa and non imigrant visa through my Thai company ( which i might add, pay yearly taxes on) I will not bother you with red tape or all the other expenses and head ackes i had to endure to obtain a non imigrant visa. To make things even worse....all that "crap" every three months?? You do your math big man or just use your common sense. Maybe you know something or somebody, the rest of us (probably several thousand) don't know.

Yulie

[astral]

How will it work if you are the Managing Director, signing your own company documents and job description........

That would be my case.

[scottie dog]

It should be pointed out that registering a company alone will not entitle for the extension of stay to your non-Imm B visa (of 12 months). To qualify your company must show a history of operation and employment of Thais*. Thus, even after setting up your company and getting a work permit, you'll still be doing visa runs to each three months foreign consulates -- unless you can get the 12-month multi entry B visa** for, say, six months. After which the FA department will sit on your application and make you extend it a few times.

I've said if before and I'll say it again, if Thailand wants people to stay legally, the best way is to make it easier for people who are already here. Most visa runners are honest people, nobody likes doing runs but the difficulties in going legal make (or made) visa runs a cheaper and easier option.

* Not sure if a sole employee company will be exempt.

** Which are getting as rare as hen's teeth and still require you to renew your permit and leave every three months.

I am the MD of my company, I have a Non Im B and never have toleave the country. Just log ionto the IMM police every ninety days.

[opalhort]

How will it work if you are the Managing Director, signing your own company documents and job description........

That would be my case.

In theory this should be OK, but when we set up our Co in 2530BE I had some doubts about it and we set things up this way:

Three directors (father in law, wife and myself), all documents require at least two signatures according to the memorandum (40 items). This way there will always be at least one Thai person who has to counter sign all documents. Never had any problems this way for the past 20 years.

opalhort

PS. father in law is chairman, wife is director and I'm Managing Director

[Indifferent]

To get my B visa I had to furnish all the incorperation documents.

What it does lead to though (in the strictest sense of the law..please jump in the experts please) is that anyone starting up a business is technically working (since they are signing legal documents) and therefore requires a workpermit. This you cannot get because

A) The company doesn't exist yet (no tax registration etc,etc,etc)

You don't have the number of Thai workers.

Best option is if all the company startup proffesionals apply for the B visa as the client being employed (temporarily) by them as a consultant. They only have to furnish an offer of employment and or an invitation for an interview and hey presto...B visa. Of course..this isn't gonna happen.

[solent01]

I am the Managing Director for my company, and I'm also the only signatory, I have no problems what so ever, everything is above board and all my tax's paid, whats more I have no problem with the thought of investing more capital in my company and expanding my operations, one idea would be to buy up some of your condo's.........

To quote Bill Hicks....

Life is a roller coaster, sometimes your up, sometimes your down, but your always going around and around.

Sol

[solent01]

To get my B visa I had to furnish all the incorperation documents.

What it does lead to though (in the strictest sense of the law..please jump in the experts please) is that anyone starting up a business is technically working (since they are signing legal documents) and therefore requires a workpermit. This you cannot get because

A) The company doesn't exist yet (no tax registration etc,etc,etc)

You don't have the number of Thai workers.

Best option is if all the company startup proffesionals apply for the B visa as the client being employed (temporarily) by them as a consultant. They only have to furnish an offer of employment and or an invitation for an interview and hey presto...B visa. Of course..this isn't gonna happen.

Yes your example is correct, however, the time scale envolved is so small (if done correctly), between company formation and work permit application, I don't think its really that much of an issue.

Sol

Edit, sorry misread your post, why did you have to provide company registration to obtain the B visa and when was this? It is IMHO that you do not need to have a company already registered to obtain a B visa......

Sunbelt Asia would shed light on this for you.

Sol

Edited September 15, 2006 by solent01

[byarwood]

can someone shed some light on my particular situation, i presently have a non-imm B visa which i obtained back in the UK before i arrived, however i've never had a WP and my visa is about to expire (oct 1st) so what requirements do i need to fulfill in order to get an extention, bearing in mind, that my school is less than helpful in sorting me out with a WP....any suggestions would be great.

Ben

[jdinasia]

Byarwood---go out and return the day BEFORE it expires and you'll get another 90 days. TRY to get them to help you get a WP ... if they don't then you'll be heading somewhere outside of the region for a new non-imm multi

[toolpush]

Common sense would say that it shoudl be allowed and you don't need a visa?

This is Thailand. Common sense doesn't apply here

The Thai language makes no provision for the concept of "common sense". It does not translate. There are no Thai words that mean "common sense".