Was Buddism convoluted with Hindu beliefs?

[rockyysdt]

Source: Buddhadasa "Anatta": Quote: they got some bits and pieces of concepts from Mahayanists, secretly spread what they got to some others among themselves, and finally hold such concepts as the truth since they correspond to their viewpoints, which they have already believed in.

As you can see, cross referencing teachings is fraught with traps.

This quote is talking about people picking up ideas from other traditions/religions (Thais in this case, but westerners do it to), and they incorporate these other ideas into their own religion basically because they don't fully understand their own doctrines (this is how folk Buddhism develops).

It doesn't seem to have any relevance to the cross referencing between reputable sources that I was talking about, but is an example of how common folk practices deviate from the teachings over time.

Non the less "secretly spreading out" concepts could have included all kinds of things such as doctrine and have been done in order to authenticate the beliefs of sects/factions.

We know secretly spreading out occurred (Buddhadasa's example).

Why limit its scope?

[camerata]

One inflammatory post has been deleted. Stick to the topic at hand, please.

[VincentRJ]

Camerata,

I read that inflammatory post and was considering a reply. When I returned to the site to reply, I discovered you'd deleted the post. Fair enough! You have your rules and standards, but I'm disappointed that I cannot reply directly, in a Buddhistic and equanimous manner.

I was going to make the point that one of the stories relating to the Buddha was his response to insults.

I'll paraphrase the story as I remember it. Whilst the Buddha was on his wanderings, visiting various villages to teach his message, he came across another traveller who insulted him along the lines (paraphrasing here), "So you're another of these useless, religious teachers, spouting a load of rubbish!"

Instead of geting angry, the Buddha calmly asked his abuser, if a person were to make a present to someone who rejected the present, and refused to accept it, who would own the present?

The abuser agreed that he would still own the present. The Buddha replied, likewise I do not accept your insult. It's yours. You keeps it.

That's the sort of teaching I find useful and even revelatory.

[Fookhaht]

Ever visited the 1000-year-old Angkor Wat? Yes.

[rockyysdt]

Camerata,

I read that inflammatory post and was considering a reply. When I returned to the site to reply, I discovered you'd deleted the post. Fair enough! You have your rules and standards, but I'm disappointed that I cannot reply directly, in a Buddhistic and equanimous manner.

I was going to make the point that one of the stories relating to the Buddha was his response to insults.

I'll paraphrase the story as I remember it. Whilst the Buddha was on his wanderings, visiting various villages to teach his message, he came across another traveller who insulted him along the lines (paraphrasing here), "So you're another of these useless, religious teachers, spouting a load of rubbish!"

Instead of geting angry, the Buddha calmly asked his abuser, if a person were to make a present to someone who rejected the present, and refused to accept it, who would own the present?

The abuser agreed that he would still own the present. The Buddha replied, likewise I do not accept your insult. It's yours. You keeps it.

That's the sort of teaching I find useful and even revelatory.

Interestingly I had also read the post and was formulating a response in a Buddhistic & Equanimous manner.

A by product of Awareness practice is to increasingly look at ones, and others conditioning and conditioned behavior.

I'm seeing repetitive patterns of conditioning in myself and that of others.

And further, these repetitious patterns are extremely difficult to discard.

Patterns of behavior, so deeply ingrained, that even the offer of large sums of money haven't been able to motivate several work colleagues to alter their habitual lives.

These colleagues are between the ages of 55 to 61.

I can't comment about younger travelers, but I'm coming to the conclusion that for most, permanently adopting new practice such as the 8 Fold Path, is so difficult that it is one of the reasons why so few Awaken.

The other interesting thing regarding that post alerts us to the use of labels/words such as Buddhism which allow us to incorrectly characterize/label a teaching.

Humans tend to have fixed views associated with the meaning of words.

This causes them to refer to a predetermined meaning for dissociated events which may warrant unique interpretations/responses.

I incorrectly used the adjective "polluted" to describe how the original Buddhist teachings may have been "mixed, modified and colored with characteristics of religions".

The word "polluted" may have given readers a vision that I was suggesting that such a religion which may have influenced Buddhism was tainted or impure.

Unfortunately I suffer from conditioning, as most do.

I stand corrected regarding my choice of my descriptive word.

Coming back to the purpose of my original post.

One, faced with the need to dedicate ones self to a life long practice, needs to reduce the possibility that they may be practicing something bereft of merit, and not faithful to the original teaching.

It would be a wicked waste of ones life, if they faithfully practiced something void of any useful purpose.

Edited February 19, 2016 by rockyysdt

[VincentRJ]

Yes. this seemed to be the main objection by the (obviously) Hindu objector. I understand if one actually is a devout Hindu, then any description that infers that Hindu beliefs are a 'pollution', would tend to inspire anger.

Buddhism can transcend such anger.

[VincentRJ]

Ever visited the 1000-year-old Angkor Wat? Yes.

I've visited the Angkor Wat region many times and have taken a great number of photos over the years. It's interesting how the culture gradually changed from Hinduism to Buddhism during the course of the Khmer civilization, over several centuries.

Those ruins in Cambodia are the most amazing ruins in the world. I'd continue to visit the place were it not for the proliferation of Chinese tourists getting in the way and continually taking 'selfies'.

[camerata]

@VincentRJ

I like that story too. Here's the original version:

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels’ Sanctuary. Then the brahman Akkosaka Bharadvaja heard that a brahman of the Bharadvaja clan had gone forth from the home life into homelessness in the presence of the Blessed One. Angered & displeased, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, insulted & cursed him with rude, harsh words.

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him: “What do you think, brahman: Do friends & colleagues, relatives & kinsmen come to you as guests?”

“Yes, Master Gotama, sometimes friends & colleagues, relatives & kinsmen come to me as guests.”

“And what do you think: Do you serve them with staple & non-staple foods & delicacies?”

“Yes, sometimes I serve them with staple & non-staple foods & delicacies.”

“And if they don’t accept them, to whom do those foods belong?”

“If they don’t accept them, Master Gotama, those foods are all mine.”

“In the same way, brahman, that with which you have insulted me, who is not insulting; that with which you have taunted me, who is not taunting; that with which you have berated me, who is not berating: that I don’t accept from you. It’s all yours, brahman. It’s all yours.

“Whoever returns insult to one who is insulting, returns taunts to one who is taunting, returns a berating to one who is berating, is said to be eating together, sharing company, with that person. But I am neither eating together nor sharing your company, brahman. It’s all yours. It’s all yours.”

[camerata]

@rockysdt

I incorrectly used the adjective "polluted" to describe how the original Buddhist teachings may have been "mixed, modified and colored with characteristics of religions".

The word "polluted" may have given readers a vision that I was suggesting that such a religion which may have influenced Buddhism was tainted or impure.

I think the forum regulars, familiar with past discussions, knew you weren't denigrating Brahmanism/Hinduism, but a newbie wouldn't pick that up.

Also, a newbie wouldn't realise that we all frequently wrirte "Buddhism" - out of laziness I guess - when we actually mean "the teachings of the Buddha."

[only1]

There seems to be too much in your OP and the contents are not in consistent with your topic question. I will just reply to your title.

Surely YES, related but not convoluted at all.

Hinduism is known to be the oldest or first religion.

Buddhism focused on the right way of life. It can be considered an offshot of Hinduism but emphasis in a different area. For eg Hinduism already believed in rebirth and karma but no explanation about them. Buddhism explained them.

In fact, all existing religions are related or convoluted with Hinduism.

Judaism's Abraham, wife Sarah and the big flood could directly be copied from Brahma, Sarasthi and their big flood.

So is Christianity's Jesus with Buddha(Maya and Mary, miracle pregnancies, birth during a journey home or from home, prophesied after birth, had 12 disciples and one betrayed etc). They all cannot be coincidental.

Edited March 16, 2016 by only1