Greek bailout talks end without breakthrough in Brussels

[webfact]

Greek bailout talks end without breakthrough in Brussels
RAF CASERT, Associated Press
DEMETRIS NELLAS, Associated Press

BRUSSELS (AP) — The European Commission said Sunday that weekend talks to find common ground between international creditors and Greece were unsuccessful and left a wide rift that needs to be closed within two weeks to avoid a possible Greek default.

An EU Commission official, who refused to be identified because of the sensitivity of the negotiations, said that "the talks did not succeed as there remains a significant gap between the plans of the Greek authorities and" the demands of the international creditors.

On top of that, the official said that, for the EU's executive, "the Greek proposals remain incomplete." The official refused to be more precise.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker "remains convinced that with stronger reform efforts on the Greek side and political will on all sides, a solution can still be found before the end of the month," the official said.

Finance ministers from the 19 nations using the euro currency have a meeting next Thursday in Luxembourg which has already been billed as decisive to see if a bailout deal for Greece can be found.

The rift after the weekend's talks amounted to "the order of 0.5-1 percentage of GDP," the EU official said.

Greek Deputy Prime Minishter Yannis Dragasakis said disagreements remained over the cuts in pensions and increases in value added tax.

However, he said Greece has made "supplementary proposals that totally cover the fiscal gap and primary surpluses" and open "the way to a final deal."

Greece's 240 billion-euro ($270 billion) bailout expires June 30, at which point the country will lose access to the rescue loans it desperately needs to repay debts and avoid a default that could force it out of the euro.

The country's creditors — which include fellow eurozone states, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund — want the country to commit to new economic reforms before they disburse the last 7.2 billion euros ($8.2 billion) left in Greece's bailout fund.

Fears that the two sides were still too far apart to clinch a deal on such issues as pensions and the budget already saw the main stock index in Athens close 5.9 percent lower on Friday.

The most dramatic sign of an impasse in the discussions came on Thursday when the IMF sent its negotiators home from bailout talks with Greek officials in Brussels, citing a lack of progress.

Germany's Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel said his country won't let itself be blackmailed into a bailout deal with Greece.

Gabriel on Sunday told German public broadcaster ARD that Europe's patience with Greece is running out.

"A couple of game theorists in the Greek government believe that in the end the fear in Europe that Greece might leave (the euro) is so great that we'll agree to anything. That's not the case," he said.

At the same time, Greece also stuck to a hard line on Sunday, with a government official saying that the country will never accept cuts in pensions and wages or extra taxes on necessities such as electricity.

The official said IMF representatives are insisting on pension and wage savings worth about 1.8 billion euros ($2 billion) and an equal amount of extra revenue from VAT.

"These measures concern the popular classes and employees," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing talks in Brussels between Greece and its creditors.

He added that Greece will no longer accept measures that undermine growth and has submitted proposals that cover creditors' demands for a primary budget surplus without doing so.

Without outside help, Greece is unlikely to be able to repay a roughly 1.6 billion-euro IMF debt installment due June 30 and larger debts due to the European Central Bank in July and August.
___

Demetris Nellas reported from Athens. Frank Jordans in Berlin contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-06-15

[JockPieandBeans]

With A Grexit, A Lot Of Politicians And Bankers Would Lose Their Job... So This Must Be Avoided By All Means

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/us-markets/with-a-grexit-a-lot-of-politicians-and-bankers-would-lose-their-job-so-this-must-be-avoided-by-all-means?post=66794&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=referral

Echo's my own thoughts.

[Anthony5]

With A Grexit, A Lot Of Politicians And Bankers Would Lose Their Job... So This Must Be Avoided By All Means

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/us-markets/with-a-grexit-a-lot-of-politicians-and-bankers-would-lose-their-job-so-this-must-be-avoided-by-all-means?post=66794&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=referral

Echo's my own thoughts.

Another reason to speed up the Grexit.

[JockPieandBeans]

With A Grexit, A Lot Of Politicians And Bankers Would Lose Their Job... So This Must Be Avoided By All Means

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/us-markets/with-a-grexit-a-lot-of-politicians-and-bankers-would-lose-their-job-so-this-must-be-avoided-by-all-means?post=66794&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=referral

Echo's my own thoughts.

Another reason to speed up the Grexit.

I doubt it will be allowed to happen.

Germany and France have too much to lose.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. The thread isn't about the US

[gchurch259]

Greece got themselves into this mess !! Like most of the airlines and other companies in the USA, they went bankrupt because no one bailed them out. France and Germany should have stayed out of it and let them go flop !! I guess Spain is next ?

Does everyone think this EU (Additional Welfare Organization) is working ?

With A Grexit, A Lot Of Politicians And Bankers Would Lose Their Job... So This Must Be Avoided By All Means

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/us-markets/with-a-grexit-a-lot-of-politicians-and-bankers-would-lose-their-job-so-this-must-be-avoided-by-all-means?post=66794&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=referral

Echo's my own thoughts.

Another reason to speed up the Grexit.

I doubt it will be allowed to happen.

Germany and France have too much to lose.

[Basil B]

Question is what will happens if when Greece fails to cough up the money at the end of the month?

My guess is not a lot, the stock markets are now resigned to the fact that Greece is bankrupt, basically Greece will get no hand outs from Europe, no credit and will have to pay for all imports (cash on delivery), that will be a big wake up for Greece, they will have to increase taxes, and cut civil servant numbers and pay, pensions and welfare spending.

I doubt America will help, Russia Putin would love too but is bankrupts itself, China may extend credit, but only for goods purchased from china but Greece can not live on rice alone.

[hawker9000]

Question is what will happens if when Greece fails to cough up the money at the end of the month?

My guess is not a lot, the stock markets are now resigned to the fact that Greece is bankrupt, basically Greece will get no hand outs from Europe, no credit and will have to pay for all imports (cash on delivery), that will be a big wake up for Greece, they will have to increase taxes, and cut civil servant numbers and pay, pensions and welfare spending.

I doubt America will help, Russia Putin would love too but is bankrupts itself, China may extend credit, but only for goods purchased from china but Greece can not live on rice alone.

I too believe a Greek default has already heen factored in by all the markets. Then again, there's a lot of profit in volatility. Greece is past its sell-by date. There'll be some pain for those who have foolishly lent the Greeks all this money, but that's probably as it should be. Time to face the music, and hopefully learn something about the limits of government from it... Edited June 15, 2015 by hawker9000

[Srikcir]

It's not an issue to "find common ground between international creditors and Greece.."

It's already exists: Greece owes the international creditors and needs to pay.

The lenders have nothing to fix.

It is the Greeks who must decide if their nation's sovereignty is worth the price to pay its debts. It looks like it may revert back to its original city-states and cease being a nation.

I wonder if Macedonia might be willing to absorb it into its own to capitalize the debt. Call it Macegrekistan.

[JockPieandBeans]

Not looking good for Greece.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has said his government will wait patiently for international creditors to become "realistic", after talks on a debt deal in Brussels failed.

Mr Tsipras rejected demands for pension cuts, citing his country's dignity.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33131715

Greece are trying to unlock a 7.2 Billion loan.

To pay

6.74 Billion at the end of June.

5.95 Billion at the end of July.

4.38 Billion at the end of August.

The death rattle is loud and clear.

[tartempion]

Well Greece is death then, it's about time.

[RustBucket]

With A Grexit, A Lot Of Politicians And Bankers Would Lose Their Job... So This Must Be Avoided By All Means

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/us-markets/with-a-grexit-a-lot-of-politicians-and-bankers-would-lose-their-job-so-this-must-be-avoided-by-all-means?post=66794&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=referral

Echo's my own thoughts.

Another reason to speed up the Grexit.

I doubt it will be allowed to happen.

Germany and France have too much to lose.

A Grexit is already very much a done deal. Moscow with be Greece's future lenders.

Tsipras and Sryza will be gone before Christmas if they cave in to the troika, and that same troika is not going to give in to Tsipras and set a precedent which will encourage the other bailed out states Italy, Ireland, Portugal and Spain who are eaually suffering horrendously from Austerity rules and in some cases suspension oif democracy and almost loss of all sovereignty (Italy) who will insist on the same kid glove treatment, and that will be a real problem for not only the Eurozone but also the entire EU project.

Tsipras alreasdy has a great escape plan in Putin who will be loving sticking one on the EU.... He owes them big time for their interference with Ukraine and their US colluded sancions.

Putin and tsipras are not stupid people.... They have the troika in a very difficult position.

Even if they do strike a deal and the final 7.2 Bn euros is released to them, how long is that goiung to last Greece in their current position????..... They will be back in the same by September at the latest with nowhere else to go. They will be back at looking to default again.... This charade is just delaying the inevitable.

It is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. So appeasment from the troika is not an option because the ripple effect it will have across the other bailout nations will be just too much for them.

The Euro and the EU has been one big failure from the start when they threw vastly varying economies into a single monetary union.

Edited June 15, 2015 by RustBucket

[RustBucket]

It's not an issue to "find common ground between international creditors and Greece.."

It's already exists: Greece owes the international creditors and needs to pay.

The lenders have nothing to fix.

It is the Greeks who must decide if their nation's sovereignty is worth the price to pay its debts. It looks like it may revert back to its original city-states and cease being a nation.

I wonder if Macedonia might be willing to absorb it into its own to capitalize the debt. Call it Macegrekistan.

No way is that ever going to happen.

The Greek people will fight to the death to save their sovereignty.

They will default and get into bed with the mughty bear.

[hawker9000]

It's not an issue to "find common ground between international creditors and Greece.."

It's already exists: Greece owes the international creditors and needs to pay.

The lenders have nothing to fix.

It is the Greeks who must decide if their nation's sovereignty is worth the price to pay its debts. It looks like it may revert back to its original city-states and cease being a nation.

I wonder if Macedonia might be willing to absorb it into its own to capitalize the debt. Call it Macegrekistan.

No way is that ever going to happen.

The Greek people will fight to the death to save their sovereignty.

They will default and get into bed with the mughty bear.

The ideas of "a fight to the death to save their sovereignty" and getting "into bed with the mighty bear" are mutually exclusive. Better to describe it as jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. It's what desparate people (and nations) tend to do. There are equally desparate factions trying to save the EU, which is precisely why this has gone on as long as it has.