Beef Cattle Feed Options

[kickstart]

You can get good beef in Thailand,they is Thai /French in Yasothon part farang owned company,they is a co-op with a shop in Ragsit, bkk being try to find the link,but tv's "my containt" has gone pear shaped will try againe, a tv member recomened they beef . What they had in comon was the breed ,Kangpanpet,or Tark,which are Charalies x Brahman about 65% Charolies 35% Brahman,fed well and more importaint slautered properly and hung for a long time.

You can get Wague beef at a price ,tv had a thread on it 18 monthes ago( what happened to the op. they. ),but not easy, to get the price you must be member of a co-op,certain doner breed with paper work, regular inspections, a lot of work.

You can get Beefmaster cattle in Thailand now,a guy in Kangpanpet has a herd of 300 ,I would suspect mainy cross breeds but a high percentag of Beefmaster,he will make his money ,selling his bulls as stock bulls ,and the heifers as bulling heiffers, or in calf heiffers

That is a very small persentage of Thai beef,I have ,as i have said reaed some Angus x cattle bulls ,some Thai's have said "Angus you can get a premum price for them",I said where,they did not Know,so we sold them to a local guy , who said he was going to sell them as stock bulls,we did ok.

The other problem is the Thai pricing system,or lack of we sold 2 cattle last week for the basic price of 170 bart/kg,we got 20 000 bart for one ,and 18 000 bart for the other, the Thai way is, price per kg , for the animal, then they take off 50% for the KO %,killing out percent,that is 50% you can eat ,and 50% you can not ,hide ,bones, head , ect,the guy who brought them was not far out ,at 235 kg live wt for one ,and 210 kg for the other,one will go for the chop,the other will kept and fattened up some more, on the phone to -night price is now 163 bart /kg.

As i said for your average farmer,not company, they is no price insentive to produe quality beef ,in the uk they is a grading system ,good cattle ,good price.

All so the bigest problem is money and methord of rearing,for your av farmer,as the op is finding out it is all investing,for the op I would say for at least another 8-10 months, before he can sell his stock, or he could sell them ,before and let some one else finish them off, a lot of investment ,that the av Thai farmer can not afford, unlees he has a system of selling a couple every ,say 2-3 months,keep the cash flow going.

Say to a Thai farmer grow some grass, and fatten them off grass + some concectrate,he will say can not grow grass,it dies, or can not grow enough grass ,problems that can be over come with better grass verity's and managment he will say ,concentrate is to dear.,can be over come with better rationing.

With proper managment a farmer with his 25 rie could make more money growing beef,than growing crops especially this year,no money in arable,very littal rain but this is Thailand ,changes happen slowly.

As for the tv question of the hotel trade,I live a max of 3 hours from bkk,in this area I can get the stock ,feed,ect,have thought about it but a big no ,to much work hassal,who can do the killing,cutting up,walk in cold store,finding contracts,most hotels use imported beef, sending it it all to the buyer ,payment ,what do you do with the ,large amount you can not send to the hotel /restaurant trade,sell it on your local market?.

I am going to stick with what I am doing,on our bit of land,we are making more growing beef than growing crops,selling cattle for the chop,for fatting on ,or in calf, or on for breeding.

[loong]

Is this the thread Kickstart?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/646850-wagyu-cattle/

[pigeonjake]

Is this the thread Kickstart?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/646850-wagyu-cattle/

morning loong,

i can remember reading that thread, ive just done so again,

i wonder what happend to the op,?

i can remember thinking that 100,000bht a rai was very expencive,

would be nice to see if he got it off the pages of here and into practice, or was it another dream

[NeverSure]

Thank you for the wonderful explanations, Kickstart.

Unless one has a lot of money, increasing a herd size over time is expensive in time. Money is stagnant. If a guy has the money to buy a whole herd he's still looking at time before cash flow. His herd must reproduce itself which is very valuable, and be fed until ready to butcher. The end result can be very valuable and an ongoing cash producer but the beginning needs the time.

Perhaps the most money that a herd makes someone is when it reproduces itself. The same money put into a Kubota tractor won't cause it to reproduce itself unless that's where all of the little Kubotas come from, 55555. My family made as much money selling calves and breeding stock as they did selling beef. If a guy could get a Kubota to go out into the field and fuel itself with grass and then drop a little Kubota in the process he'd really have something. 555

I joke about this because this is where the money might be - reproduction and herd growth. There aren't many other farm products that while a guy is growing them will reproduce themselves for the next crop.

Oh well, it's interesting but I don't have the real experience in LOS with either costs or marketing or selling price to have a hard opinion. Thanks for letting me join in a bit.

[kickstart]

@ loong and PJ,That was one tread I was thinking of,there is another one similar somewhere.

@ slapout thanks for the comments,something I forgot last night , cull dairy cows are the same price as your beef animals, in the uk and probably the usa and oz,it is a completely different market , prime beef and cull cows.

So some one producing some good quality beef ,and is interested in the job,will only get the same price ,as a near neighbour selling his cull dairy cows ,cows that have already made the owner some money,something not right they.

My misses goes to our local market and see's crap beef selling for 220 baht/kg,people still buy it ,and when pork is a 130 baht /kg and fish at 70-80 baht/kg,if you could produce some good beef and sell it at 250 baht /kg ,people will buy it, and the producer, if he can become efficient, will make some money to.

May be one day.

[teletiger]

All beef has to be hung, 15 days minimum. Try explaining that to a Thai

My wife stopped just outside Lamphoon to buy beef for Laab. "Killed this morning" the old woman boasted.
Even the finely chopped Laab was tough.
Try explaining cutting off the mould from the outside of the carcass.....and then offer them a nice juicy steak.
Beef in Thailand will only ever be niche.

Regards.

[slapout]

the japenese have shown good beef can be raised in small areas with diets and living conditions much different than free range , feed lot beef. i refuse to pay the price nor spend the time spoiling a 4 legged piece of meat i am going to throw on a bbq, eat medium rare with beans, fried okra, some rabbit food and a cold beer I have never asked but have wondered if the japs cut the balls off these beeves to prevent stress which could affect the finished product taste. if they do cut then are the nuts cooked in a special way, massaged what about the tail, tongue, heart sweetbreads, etc questions in the same light , just a question that came to mind that i have never seen addressed.

[Allgeier]

What about cassava leaf? Come close to 30 % of Protein.

[Allgeier]

Here are two research from cassava byprodukt

http://ag2.kku.ac.th/kaj/PDF.cfm?filename=403.pdf&id=707&keeptrack=13

http://ag2.kku.ac.th/kaj/PDF.cfm?filename=15O-ANI-051.pdf&id=844&keeptrack=6

Feedepedia is also a good source to get information about feed and byprodukts and how to use them.

[kickstart]

You are right cassava leaves are a good feed when dried ,we tried it once the misses was out almost all day collecting the leaves, we then dried them and feed them to the cattle ,at the time we only had 12-14 head ,feeding 1-2 kg/head day ,in less than 2 weeks we used them all up .

To do the job right you need some one or a team out collecting the leaves 3-4 ?days a week ,and a big area to dry them ,and to store the bags of leaves, one bag ,a rice sack only weighted 10-14 kg ,a good idea I agree ,but very labour intensive.

Making silage from fresh leaves dose work I have seen it done Google it ,using a chipper shredder to chop the leaves,,again labour intensive ,but a team or 2-3 people over few days could make ,a lot of silage either in bags or in a clamp ,we tried it in a large concrete water trough it was ok ,but to many cassava stems, had a problem with mould ,had to dump a lot ,not one of my better ideas.

[Allgeier]

But why to make silage from the cassava leaf? Why not give it fresh?

Also depend on the size from the farm. I am alone and i have 6 Rai. This is my fundament.

This photo from my cows 3 year ago

[pigeonjake]

fresh casava leafs are poison, your best to dry and kickstart says

[Allgeier]

My 5 pigs over 80 kg get every Day one Wheelbarrow of fresh cassava leafs.

Here are two Links about cassava leafs

http://www.feedipedia.org/node/528

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0554e/t0554e08.htm

CYANOGENIC GLUCOSIDES

The cyanide content of cassava leaves has been extensively studied. The normal range of cyanide content is from 20 to 80 mg HCN per 100 g fresh leaf weight, but samples containing as low as 8 mg/100 g or over 400 mg/100 g have also been reported. On a dry basis (assuming 25% DM in fresh leaves), the normal range of HCN content would correspond to 800 to 3200 mg/kg. These levels are substantially higher than the normal range of HCN reported for fresh cassava roots.

The wide variations observed in leaf cyanide levels may be attributed to genetic, physiological, edaphic and climatic differences, but have been exaggerated by problems associated with methodology of cyanide assay. Stage of leaf maturity is perhaps a major factor causing variations in the cyanide content. As in other cyanogenic plants, the glucoside concentration in cassava leaves decrease with age. Cyanide levels in the leaves are also influenced by the nutritional status of the plant. De Bruijn (1973) reported that leaf cyanide levels were increased by fertilizer nitrogen, whereas potassium and farmyard manure had the opposite effect.

Try and after see what is happen.

[kickstart]

The idea of making silage ,is that you can make forage feed at the time of the year ,when there is a lot of that feed ,now they is no cassava ,to speak of ,at the new year they is a lot ,so it would be then you would make your silage ,and it can be kept for a long time ,if it is sealed properly .last week I just finished feeding grass silage, Napier grass ,we made back in November .

Also making silage from fresh cassava leaves ,kills the cyanide in the leaves ,making it safe to eat ,same as sorghum, that can do dodge for cattle, again cyanide, but ensiling sorghum , kills off the cyanides .

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Cool thread. Where is Neversure?

[BHW]

Hi All

What a good topic. Heaps of info.

Does anybody know of a Selective Herbicide to handle native grasses & weeds in a Napier crop.

We water it once a week in the dry season, the weeds love it, we cut every 45 to 50 days.

Thanks in advance.

[kickstart]

Problem is native grass and Napier ,are all but the same verity, so no selective herbicide ,I use Round -up ,glyphosate I have grass weed problem in my Napier grass ,in large patches ,one grass Yar-Con .in Thai ,or Para Grass that takes some getting rid of , I use a knapsack sprayer spray between the rows I wait until the Napier grass is about 18 inches tall ,the grass stems have grown ,no leaf , any chemical touching the grass stems ,the grass will not die ,done this now for a few years ,except last year ,short of time ,for my 1 1/2 rie it can take me a week plus ,working an hour or two at a time .

Or you could use a tractor ,if the row spacing are right , with the tool they use for ridging up maize go up and down between the rows ,I have used my cultivator ,I could adjust the tines to suit the row spacing works well

Have seen ,some crops ,one near me, with no weed at all ,the grass grows quicker than the grass weeds and it shades out the weeds .