Thailand's economic engine sputtering as global storm approaches

[webfact]

OVERDRIVE
Thailand's economic engine sputtering as global storm approaches

BANGKOK: -- The US Federal Reserve decided to keep its zero interest rate unchanged on Wednesday. But the financial markets now expect two rate rises of 25 basis points each this year, to bring the Fed rate to 0.75 per cent before the end of 2015. Any further rate increases beyond that date are expected to be gradual.

Since the committee last met in April, the pace of job gains has picked up and labour-market gains have improved further," Fed Chair Janet Yellen said at a press conference in Washington on Wednesday, after the Federal Open Market Committee voted to keep its main rate at zero.

This was the latest in a string of different excuses the Fed has used to justify maintaining its zero interest rate policy. Since the zero-interest policy's launch in 2008, accompanied by massive money printing totalling $4 trillion, we have been told of "green shoots", mild or strong recovery and labour market improvements. This dual monetary pressure has pumped bubbles in the market that have grown way beyond most observers' wildest imagination.

Now, any attempt to normalise the interest rate would risk triggering sell-offs in the markets. The Fed's normal rate is around 4 per cent. So there is a long way to go before rate normalisation is achieved. Apparently, the Fed is well aware that any rate increase might pop the financial bubbles, hence the delay in the rate rise. But the US central bank can't go on feeding the bubbles forever.

Danielle DiMartino Booth, a former adviser to Dallas Fed president Dick Fisher, has come out to slam the Fed for maintaining the rate at zero for too long, thereby fuelling the bubbles.

"The Fed's credibility itself is at stake … they have backed themselves into a very tight corner … the tightest ever," wrote DiMartino Booth.

"The hope today is that the current era of easy monetary policy will have no deep economic ramifications. Such thinking, though, may prove to be na?ve. … All retirees' security is thus at risk when the massive overvaluation in fixed income and equity markets eventually rights itself."

This can only mean that the financial bubbles will have to pop, triggering massive losses and economic crisis. Already, the bond markets are in jittery mood. Long-term yields have been rising since April. If the bond markets were to run into trouble, it would spill over into the equity markets and we would soon witness a full-blown crisis.

As an emerging-market economy, Thailand will not be exempt from the financial shocks. Higher US rates will induce capital outflows. The Bank of Thailand has brought its short-term rate to 1.5 per cent. If upward pressure on global interest rates increases, the Thai central bank might have to reverse its policy. It wants both a low rate and a weaker exchange rate, as these help stimulate the economy. But this manoeuvre has its limits, given the sluggish global growth. The export sector is no longer humming. Private investment is weak. The Thai government is almost broke. And consumers are seeing their debts climb through the roof.

Brace for more tough times in the second half of this year, when the effect of the recent drought on Thai farmers begins to spread. There is |only one way to go forward - by muddling through.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thailands-economic-engine-sputtering-as-global-sto-30262633.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-19

[NeverSure]

"Since the zero-interest policy's launch in 2008, accompanied by massive money printing totalling $4 trillion..."

If that's all the writer understands about Fed monetary policy he should quit and go have a beer. The writer tends to write using common myths and misconceptions that plague others who don't know what's really going on.

The Fed doesn't "print money" to increase the money supply. It doesn't even increase the amount of USD in the world. The Fed increases the money supply by one or all of three ways:

1. It lowers the reserve requirements of banks so that they have a higher percentage of their deposits available to loan. That's the big one that makes more money available to the economy.

2. It lowers interest rates to stimulate that borrowing so that more money is spent into the economy. See "fractional reserve banking".

3. It conducts "open market operations," buying and selling US bonds in the open market. That doesn't increase or decrease total money but rather makes more or less available in the marketplace.

There has been no increase in the total amount of USD in the world other than what is normal to meet any expanding economy or to match inflation of goods and services. The "money supply" increases and decreases only on the books, whichever way the Fed thinks it should go.

That will be $5 please, Mr. Author.

[Publicus]

The Fed is doing what it does, managing the money supply the Department of the Treasury provides and the two are separate while the Fed is itself independent. Anyone who knows the history of money and finance in the United States knows why the Fed was created in 1914 and why some other democracies have one, which to manage the money removed and away from politicians.

(The far out right likely will say its usual wild things against the Fed and more yet about banks yadda yadda yadda). While big banksters are not the best among us, they are not the worst either.

Emerging markets have maxed out and that is what is happening. The Brics have no mortar and they are falling, Thailand is a basket case etc. The emerging markets have controlled economies, lack rule of law, some have military governments, they've overborrowed and overspent with little to show for it due to incompetence but more so because of massive and endemic corruption; they're technologically slow and lack capital to include educated and trained human capital as well as financial capital; they've squandered their natural resources and the environment; their rapid growth has burned out.

Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea are the only three of the Asian Tiger economies of the 1990s forward to have escaped the middle income trap. It's exceedingly hard to do until one gets some kind of rule of law and the rest of the drill I've itemized and yet more.

Russia has cut off its nose to spite its face as has Thailand in its own bizarre and petty ways. China is maxed out on its development model of a command economy and a command political system undermined by Trillions in corruption. Brazil has bungled its way to the bottom. India continues to grow at 7.5% but the distribution of new wealth is almost malevolent in its distortions.

The Nation is running up the coconut tree again which means to look out below.

[NeverSure]

How anyone can extract "print money" from the acronym QE is beyond me. QE is "quantitative easing" which has the word easing in it. The Fed eases banks' lending restrictions by allowing them to lend a higher percentage of depositors' money than is normal. The Fed then further eases lending by lowering interest rates.

It's this easing that makes more money available to the economy and that gives it a jump start. It has nothing to do with printing creating more actual money. The good news is that the Fed can later tighten these controls and tighten down on the money supply by increasing bank reserve requirements and increasing interest rates. This obviously takes money out of the system while having nothing to do with actual USD in existence.

OP: That will be another $5 please.

[davehowden]

Publicus

Much enjoyed your synopsis.

[Manbing]

Boom and bust cycles traditionally run over 7 years.

Last bust was 2008- you do the math.

[sojourner007]

Signs that another financial crisis coming to Thailand soon?

[MockingJay]

Don't believe bankers, economists, lawyers, investment brokers and politicians and you'll just gonna be fine

Funny to read that members here try to explain what happened or will happen and why. There are thousands of so-called "experts" out there who in the past tried and even still today try to explain to us that the biggest ponzi scheme the world has ever seen is safe and can be rescued, while anyone who can see, hear, talk and think knows that the world and the world economy is going down south... So who cares? We are being lied to by the people we trusted and now will have to pay the price for our naivity. There's a big reset coming and none of us is in power to change things, because it is too late - feels like a June bug trying to stop a running elephant...

Edited June 19, 2015 by MockingJay

[peterpop]

Don't write off Thailand too quickly. Thailand has some world class companies with excellent credentials. These companies are light on their feet and can keep the economy ticking over in hard times. The government is another matter. It lacks the ability to manage the economy and cannot even raise taxes to pay for desperately needed infrastructure projects. Borrowing from the potential contractors is not the way forward. Even so I am a happy investor is selected companies and expect to make profit this coming year.

[MockingJay]

Signs that another financial crisis coming to Thailand soon?

It's already here if you haven't noticed. Wakiee, wakieee, my friend!

[MockingJay]

Don't write off Thailand too quickly. Thailand has some world class companies with excellent credentials. These companies are light on their feet and can keep the economy ticking over in hard times. The government is another matter. It lacks the ability to manage the economy and cannot even raise taxes to pay for desperately needed infrastructure projects. Borrowing from the potential contractors is not the way forward. Even so I am a happy investor is selected companies and expect to make profit this coming year.

So happy for you - let's hope the investments will not pop right into your face soon, Peter!

[alant]

"Since the zero-interest policy's launch in 2008, accompanied by massive money printing totalling $4 trillion..."

If that's all the writer understands about Fed monetary policy he should quit and go have a beer. The writer tends to write using common myths and misconceptions that plague others who don't know what's really going on.

The Fed doesn't "print money" to increase the money supply. It doesn't even increase the amount of USD in the world. The Fed increases the money supply by one or all of three ways:

1. It lowers the reserve requirements of banks so that they have a higher percentage of their deposits available to loan. That's the big one that makes more money available to the economy.

2. It lowers interest rates to stimulate that borrowing so that more money is spent into the economy. See "fractional reserve banking".

3. It conducts "open market operations," buying and selling US bonds in the open market. That doesn't increase or decrease total money but rather makes more or less available in the marketplace.

There has been no increase in the total amount of USD in the world other than what is normal to meet any expanding economy or to match inflation of goods and services. The "money supply" increases and decreases only on the books, whichever way the Fed thinks it should go.

That will be $5 please, Mr. Author.

I find this hard to believe. The Fed has not increased the money supply, really? All that printing has been a "paper" exercise? Lowering interest rates to increase spending or simply a message that says to prudently save is bad? It buys bonds, sure it does with what? And whilst we are at it please tell me how the Fed accounts for the Billions of $ that end up being taken out of the country through such activities as drug trafficking?

Now as a simple layman, I am happy to be told I do not understand the system and that my thoughts are just wrong but it seems to me that whilst economic students in university are preached that all is well as long as you can sell bonds then the basis of said economics is off track.

[Praematura]

Blame it on the Fed? Then what's the reason for the past 5 years of decline? Oh yea not TIT but... Oh democracy?

[elgordo38]

The Fed is doing what it does, managing the money supply the Department of the Treasury provides and the two are separate while the Fed is itself independent. Anyone who knows the history of money and finance in the United States knows why the Fed was created in 1914 and why some other democracies have one, which to manage the money removed and away from politicians.

(The far out right likely will say its usual wild things against the Fed and more yet about banks yadda yadda yadda). While big banksters are not the best among us, they are not the worst either.

Emerging markets have maxed out and that is what is happening. The Brics have no mortar and they are falling, Thailand is a basket case etc. The emerging markets have controlled economies, lack rule of law, some have military governments, they've overborrowed and overspent with little to show for it due to incompetence but more so because of massive and endemic corruption; they're technologically slow and lack capital to include educated and trained human capital as well as financial capital; they've squandered their natural resources and the environment; their rapid growth has burned out.

Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea are the only three of the Asian Tiger economies of the 1990s forward to have escaped the middle income trap. It's exceedingly hard to do until one gets some kind of rule of law and the rest of the drill I've itemized and yet more.

Russia has cut off its nose to spite its face as has Thailand in its own bizarre and petty ways. China is maxed out on its development model of a command economy and a command political system undermined by Trillions in corruption. Brazil has bungled its way to the bottom. India continues to grow at 7.5% but the distribution of new wealth is almost malevolent in its distortions.

The Nation is running up the coconut tree again which means to look out below.

A long and informative read to put it in layman terms "Fasten your seat belt its going to be a long rough ride in the future."

The Fed has no real plan they are winging it all the way. Usually money pumped into the market gave you a bang for your buck in the past now your hardly getting a whimper. The answer is simple toooo much world wide debt and we cannot climb to the bottom of the debt pit fast enough. The big boys who make all the toys we want are laughing all the way to the bank saying "come on suckers borrow more more more more" We are addicted.

[elgordo38]

Blame it on the Fed? Then what's the reason for the past 5 years of decline? Oh yea not TIT but... Oh democracy?

The Fed and Central banks world wide are controlled by the same group of shadow people no not the illuminati. When wars break out they are on the winning and loosing side. These shadow people are the people that have made their money over the centuries money passed from one generation to next. Unlike the stock market they are never on the loosing side of a trade that is why they are rich beyond your and Warren Buffets, Bill Gates dreams.

[timendres]

How anyone can extract "print money" from the acronym QE is beyond me. QE is "quantitative easing" which has the word easing in it. The Fed eases banks' lending restrictions by allowing them to lend a higher percentage of depositors' money than is normal. The Fed then further eases lending by lowering interest rates.

It's this easing that makes more money available to the economy and that gives it a jump start. It has nothing to do with printing creating more actual money. The good news is that the Fed can later tighten these controls and tighten down on the money supply by increasing bank reserve requirements and increasing interest rates. This obviously takes money out of the system while having nothing to do with actual USD in existence.

OP: That will be another $5 please.

You are absolutely correct, and in a way highlighting why the Fed's policy has been so ineffective.

You cannot push on a rope. Easing makes it easier to borrow money. BUT, if no one wants to borrow, it has no effect. When businesses see a weak economy, they are not inclined to borrow for investment, because they are not convinced the investment will produce the return needed to pay back the loan.

When consumers have no jobs, or poor jobs, they do not qualify to borrow more money, even if they do want it.

When baby boomers are nearing retirement, they do not want to borrow money for a bigger house or things they do not need. They are in saving mode, not borrowing mode.

The only real borrowers right now are investors who are looking to put cheap money (low borrowing cost) into the one investment that is giving them a return - the stock market. Which is why the stock market have remained elevated in this environment.

You cannot change the mindset of baby boomers who are nearing and entering retirement in vast (and increasing) numbers.

You cannot make up an economy by asking people/businesses to borrow money for investments that are not productive.

You cannot force anyone to borrow money they do not need.

You cannot push on a rope.

What the US needs the most right now is less government regulations, fewer costs of business imposed by the government (e.g., ObamaCare), and less unknowns about the future business environment (aka, less government involvement). Businesses are being strangled by government regulations, taxes, and other costs. They are unsure about where to invest because of unknowns about government regulations and costs.

And we need the Fed to stop manipulating money in such a bad way. The zero interest rate policy is punishing those who have saved by making the return on those savings zero. They are encouraging inefficient borrowing by those who are consuming, which does not promote future returns on investment. And they are pushing money into less productive areas of the economy, such as non-productive trading in the stock markets.

We need to reset back to a more normal, productive economic environment. Unfortunately, that reset is going to cause pain. Instead of accepting this pain for the sake of future generations, we are avoiding it at their expense.

[Steely Dan]

We are in uncharted territory. Interest rates of even 4% would sink the economy without trace. If there isn't more money in circulation I would ask why not re establish the link between a dollar and the amount of gold it can buy? That one act would surely remove accusations of printing money.

The next bear market is overdue but will probably be even more so by the time it arrives, but when it does I wonder whether it will be followed by another smoke and mirrors style recovery, I suspect so as these are the only ones available.

Recommended reading 'This time it's different Eight centuries of financial folly' to see the prognosis for Neo-Keynesian (progressive) monetary policy.

[Pakboong]

We are in uncharted territory. Interest rates of even 4% would sink the economy without trace. If there isn't more money in circulation I would ask why not re establish the link between a dollar and the amount of gold it can buy? That one act would surely remove accusations of printing money.

The next bear market is overdue but will probably be even more so by the time it arrives, but when it does I wonder whether it will be followed by another smoke and mirrors style recovery, I suspect so as these are the only ones available.

Recommended reading 'This time it's different Eight centuries of financial folly' to see the prognosis for Neo-Keynesian (progressive) monetary policy.

It looks to me like the BRICS have figured this out and are planning accordingly. Anyone wondering why Russia is standing pat in Ukraine should take some time to consider why. They are a couple of years away from a gold backed currency. They will have plenty of opposition but they do seem committed.

[Publicus]

It's getting harder to figure out what's from the Nation and what's not.

Actually, even the Nation doesn't try to tell us the gold standard is coming back, much less coming back as a surprise announcement by certain group of secretive nations hell bent on a new world order dominated by the falling Brics.

A radically new gold standard based on radically altered valuations could indeed be established. It would however require a 100% global cooperation on the grandest of scales. Any separate group of involved nations acting clandestinely on their own would see things suddenly go ballistic.

No foolin'

Edited June 19, 2015 by Publicus

[NeverSure]

I find this hard to believe. The Fed has not increased the money supply, really? All that printing has been a "paper" exercise?

The Fed has increased the supply of money that's in the economy but it did not create new money, not even print. It increased the percentage of the depositors' money that banks can lend. That does put more money into the economy.

The Fed also lowered interest rates to stimulate borrowing, especially real estate and business borrowing.

The term is quantitative easing, not "printing".

Lowering interest rates to increase spending or simply a message that says to prudently save is bad? It buys bonds, sure it does with what? And whilst we are at it please tell me how the Fed accounts for the Billions of $ that end up being taken out of the country through such activities as drug trafficking?

Putting more money into the economy to stimulate, especially the real estate and business sectors is the idea. Drug money is irrelevant. It's a drop compared the USD that are circulating.

Now as a simple layman, I am happy to be told I do not understand the system and that my thoughts are just wrong but it seems to me that whilst economic students in university are preached that all is well as long as you can sell bonds then the basis of said economics is off track.

You have been mistaken if you think the Fed has printed money or created new money to finance QE. It is also true that since the actions have been easing of lending restrictions and interest rates, the Fed can reduce the money supply and increase interest rates if it wants to in the future.

If the economic professors in British schools were so smart, they wouldn't be teaching university in British schools. Oh, and you might be wrong that they teach that because it is wrong, but then I wouldn't know what they teach.

Cheers

[NeverSure]

How anyone can extract "print money" from the acronym QE is beyond me. QE is "quantitative easing" which has the word easing in it. The Fed eases banks' lending restrictions by allowing them to lend a higher percentage of depositors' money than is normal. The Fed then further eases lending by lowering interest rates.

It's this easing that makes more money available to the economy and that gives it a jump start. It has nothing to do with printing creating more actual money. The good news is that the Fed can later tighten these controls and tighten down on the money supply by increasing bank reserve requirements and increasing interest rates. This obviously takes money out of the system while having nothing to do with actual USD in existence.

OP: That will be another $5 please.

You are absolutely correct, and in a way highlighting why the Fed's policy has been so ineffective.

You cannot push on a rope. Easing makes it easier to borrow money. BUT, if no one wants to borrow, it has no effect. When businesses see a weak economy, they are not inclined to borrow for investment, because they are not convinced the investment will produce the return needed to pay back the loan.

When consumers have no jobs, or poor jobs, they do not qualify to borrow more money, even if they do want it.

When baby boomers are nearing retirement, they do not want to borrow money for a bigger house or things they do not need. They are in saving mode, not borrowing mode.

The only real borrowers right now are investors who are looking to put cheap money (low borrowing cost) into the one investment that is giving them a return - the stock market. Which is why the stock market have remained elevated in this environment.

You cannot change the mindset of baby boomers who are nearing and entering retirement in vast (and increasing) numbers.

You cannot make up an economy by asking people/businesses to borrow money for investments that are not productive.

You cannot force anyone to borrow money they do not need.

You cannot push on a rope.

What the US needs the most right now is less government regulations, fewer costs of business imposed by the government (e.g., ObamaCare), and less unknowns about the future business environment (aka, less government involvement). Businesses are being strangled by government regulations, taxes, and other costs. They are unsure about where to invest because of unknowns about government regulations and costs.

And we need the Fed to stop manipulating money in such a bad way. The zero interest rate policy is punishing those who have saved by making the return on those savings zero. They are encouraging inefficient borrowing by those who are consuming, which does not promote future returns on investment. And they are pushing money into less productive areas of the economy, such as non-productive trading in the stock markets.

We need to reset back to a more normal, productive economic environment. Unfortunately, that reset is going to cause pain. Instead of accepting this pain for the sake of future generations, we are avoiding it at their expense.

I agree with you - you can't force people to borrow. Very low interest rates have led a housing recovery after a stunning crash. I bought some rentals in 2008-2009 but prices have gone up so much that they no longer pencil to buy more.

I agree about regulations and they hurt small to medium and startup businesses most because they can't amortize the costs as well.

No one ever promised anyone that interest rates would be good on savings. That's not what savings are for. Savings are for parking money and investments are for making money. Remember, someone has to borrow those savings and pay interest on it before a bank can pay interest and we really don't want too much borrowing at high interest rates. See Jimmy Carter.

Cheers

[thaibeachlovers]

Signs that another financial crisis coming to Thailand soon?

It's already here if you haven't noticed. Wakiee, wakieee, my friend!

Perhaps in Bkk, but up north you wouldn't know there's a problem.

If there was a drop that got a few thousand cars off the roads it would be a good thing. I remember Bkk after the Asian crisis- great getting around on public transport then, after all the "rich" people had to sell their Mercs. Good days.

No matter what happens, you know the 1% going to get richer and the poor people going to get poorer.

[konying]

Now do not shoot the messenger, but was in the meeting with my accountant.

Her mother or mothers sister work at Ministry of Commerce

I was advised NOT to buy anything because in September Thai economy will crash.

She was super sure about the month, she was super sure that the prices of houses and condo's will drop by at least 30%

Again, do not shoot the messenger, i am only posting what was told to me.

One of my staff was with me, and in general chat said her hubby wanted to change jobs, accountant insisted he DOES NOT because again come September, there will be no jobs.

Take from it what you will.

[thaibeachlovers]

How anyone can extract "print money" from the acronym QE is beyond me. QE is "quantitative easing" which has the word easing in it. The Fed eases banks' lending restrictions by allowing them to lend a higher percentage of depositors' money than is normal. The Fed then further eases lending by lowering interest rates.

It's this easing that makes more money available to the economy and that gives it a jump start. It has nothing to do with printing creating more actual money. The good news is that the Fed can later tighten these controls and tighten down on the money supply by increasing bank reserve requirements and increasing interest rates. This obviously takes money out of the system while having nothing to do with actual USD in existence.

OP: That will be another $5 please.

You are absolutely correct, and in a way highlighting why the Fed's policy has been so ineffective.

You cannot push on a rope. Easing makes it easier to borrow money. BUT, if no one wants to borrow, it has no effect. When businesses see a weak economy, they are not inclined to borrow for investment, because they are not convinced the investment will produce the return needed to pay back the loan.

When consumers have no jobs, or poor jobs, they do not qualify to borrow more money, even if they do want it.

When baby boomers are nearing retirement, they do not want to borrow money for a bigger house or things they do not need. They are in saving mode, not borrowing mode.

The only real borrowers right now are investors who are looking to put cheap money (low borrowing cost) into the one investment that is giving them a return - the stock market. Which is why the stock market have remained elevated in this environment.

You cannot change the mindset of baby boomers who are nearing and entering retirement in vast (and increasing) numbers.

You cannot make up an economy by asking people/businesses to borrow money for investments that are not productive.

You cannot force anyone to borrow money they do not need.

You cannot push on a rope.

What the US needs the most right now is less government regulations, fewer costs of business imposed by the government (e.g., ObamaCare), and less unknowns about the future business environment (aka, less government involvement). Businesses are being strangled by government regulations, taxes, and other costs. They are unsure about where to invest because of unknowns about government regulations and costs.

And we need the Fed to stop manipulating money in such a bad way. The zero interest rate policy is punishing those who have saved by making the return on those savings zero. They are encouraging inefficient borrowing by those who are consuming, which does not promote future returns on investment. And they are pushing money into less productive areas of the economy, such as non-productive trading in the stock markets.

We need to reset back to a more normal, productive economic environment. Unfortunately, that reset is going to cause pain. Instead of accepting this pain for the sake of future generations, we are avoiding it at their expense.

You might not be able to MAKE people borrow money, but given the right propaganda people will borrow money for stuff they do not need. That is how the western world fell down in 2007. Have you not seen the sheeple queueing up outside Apple stores to get the latest crap phone?

I know how addictive easy credit can be when they were increasing my CC limit without me asking for an increase. They screwed me big time till I cut the evil plastic up and never bought on credit I couldn't pay off straight away again.

However, given the inflation rate, my savings are losing value every year due to the scum that brought in 0 interest so the filth bankers could get rich.

[Asiantravel]

The fact is USA’s economy has for so long been heavily reliant on consumer spending (in fact 70% of USA's GDP was based on just spending).

Now 93 million Americans are even not in the labour force ( nearly one third of the population ) and this is the first time ever it has happened. On top of that due to technology, robotics there will never be enough good jobs ever again to sustain the level of consumer spending that America needs to get back where it was.

On top of that when you read 76% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck with fewer than one in four Americans with enough money in their savings account to cover at least six months of expenses. Most sobering of all is 50% of American households have less than a three-month cushion of emergency savings and 27% had no savings at all.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Asiantravel

[Publicus]

The fact is USA’s economy has for so long been heavily reliant on consumer spending (in fact 70% of USA's GDP was based on just spending).

Now 93 million Americans are even not in the labour force ( nearly one third of the population ) and this is the first time ever it has happened. On top of that due to technology, robotics there will never be enough good jobs ever again to sustain the level of consumer spending that America needs to get back where it was.

On top of that when you read 76% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck with fewer than one in four Americans with enough money in their savings account to cover at least six months of expenses. Most sobering of all is 50% of American households have less than a three-month cushion of emergency savings and 27% had no savings at all.

We're already into the Information Age and also the Technology & Cyber Economy, so the right wing slave driver ideologues are going to have to adjust to the reality that, coming soon, not all people will have to work, nor will the economy need a laborforce anything near its historical and traditional ongoing size.

Many people won't be getting a minimum wage, they'll be getting a comfortable sustainability resource of money, or of some medium of exchange, modality to obtain goods and services. It's of some considerable comfort that ideology and dogmas do not have a future in this almost present world.

[thaibeachlovers]

The fact is USA’s economy has for so long been heavily reliant on consumer spending (in fact 70% of USA's GDP was based on just spending).

Now 93 million Americans are even not in the labour force ( nearly one third of the population ) and this is the first time ever it has happened. On top of that due to technology, robotics there will never be enough good jobs ever again to sustain the level of consumer spending that America needs to get back where it was.

On top of that when you read 76% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck with fewer than one in four Americans with enough money in their savings account to cover at least six months of expenses. Most sobering of all is 50% of American households have less than a three-month cushion of emergency savings and 27% had no savings at all.

We're already into the Information Age and also the Technology & Cyber Economy, so the right wing slave driver ideologues are going to have to adjust to the reality that, coming soon, not all people will have to work, nor will the economy need a laborforce anything near its historical and traditional ongoing size.

Many people won't be getting a minimum wage, they'll be getting a comfortable sustainability resource of money, or of some medium of exchange, modality to obtain goods and services. It's of some considerable comfort that ideology and dogmas do not have a future in this almost present world.

they'll be getting a comfortable sustainability resource of money, or of some medium of exchange, modality to obtain goods and services.

Dream on.

[NeverSure]

Somebody needs to get over the idea that making the rich poorer would make the poor richer. The 1%ers don't have enough money to share to make the world's 7 billion people prosperous. The only thing that will bring new wealth to the masses is to create new wealth.

We can't all stand around in a circle with our hands in each other's pockets believing we'll all get rich. We have get busy and create new wealth to have more to go around.

Examples of creating new wealth and thus jobs and opportunities for others (and taxes to the government.)

1. Invent a Microsoft that can burn a copy of Windows onto a 10 baht DVD and turn it into a 5,000 baht copy of Windows. In the meantime promote the computer explosion that put the masses online and created countless careers the world over in the hardware and software and internet business.

2. Plant seed and watch a crop grow into new wealth that can be sold or bartered for a computer or tractor and help feed the masses.

3. Be part of the value added process where iron ore is mined, next refined into steel, next shipped, next turned into a brand new car, shipped again, sold by a retail dealer's sales force, and maintained by the service department. Jobs from new wealth abound at every step. Cars get cheaper with productivity until the masses have one.

3. Build a new house creating new wealth in the form of shelter while spending money into many directions in the economy. From the very beginning of the chain this is turning raw materials into new wealth including a home for someone.

4. Be a teacher. Create new wealth in the form of educated people who can go out into the world and be productive. The poorest people in the world are often uneducated.

Each person involved in the chain of creating new wealth is creating a better lifestyle for someone while creating jobs, earning money and paying taxes.

No slackers are invited to this party. Only the people who are willing to get up and go to work will participate in the economy despite the dreams of dreamers.

[Asiantravel]

The fact is USA’s economy has for so long been heavily reliant on consumer spending (in fact 70% of USA's GDP was based on just spending).

Now 93 million Americans are even not in the labour force ( nearly one third of the population ) and this is the first time ever it has happened. On top of that due to technology, robotics there will never be enough good jobs ever again to sustain the level of consumer spending that America needs to get back where it was.

On top of that when you read 76% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck with fewer than one in four Americans with enough money in their savings account to cover at least six months of expenses. Most sobering of all is 50% of American households have less than a three-month cushion of emergency savings and 27% had no savings at all.

We're already into the Information Age and also the Technology & Cyber Economy, so the right wing slave driver ideologues are going to have to adjust to the reality that, coming soon, not all people will have to work, nor will the economy need a laborforce anything near its historical and traditional ongoing size.

Many people won't be getting a minimum wage, they'll be getting a comfortable sustainability resource of money, or of some medium of exchange, modality to obtain goods and services. It's of some considerable comfort that ideology and dogmas do not have a future in this almost present world.

they'll be getting a comfortable sustainability resource of money, or of some medium of exchange, modality to obtain goods and services.

Dream on.

yeah.

Where is this " resource of money " going to come from? I mean it's delusional to think that entrepreneurs and really hard-working business people in USA are going to keep going when all they see in front of them are taxes and more taxes to pay these bums.

[NeverSure]

We're already into the Information Age and also the Technology & Cyber Economy, so the right wing slave driver ideologues are going to have to adjust to the reality that, coming soon, not all people will have to work, nor will the economy need a laborforce anything near its historical and traditional ongoing size.

Many people won't be getting a minimum wage, they'll be getting a comfortable sustainability resource of money, or of some medium of exchange, modality to obtain goods and services. It's of some considerable comfort that ideology and dogmas do not have a future in this almost present world.

Not so, mi amigo. It's called productivity. The more the collective produce, the more there is to go around. No one is going to pay for the slacker to enjoy the fruits of the labors and the fruits of the investments of the productive.

If there is all of this automation that would allow many not to work, who would buy the machinery and build the factory to give away the productivity of this factory? The inventor and investor is not going to be motivated to develop these things if he can't charge for and keep the fruits of his labor and investment. Oh and btw, like it or not it is the private, profit motivated sector that invents and creates these modern products that can propel the world forward. Neither socialism nor communism brought us the tech age, the TV, the airliner, the automobile or anything else. Profit motive and individual striving did.

You are actually talking about "just another" 1%er vs another 98%. 1% would own the means of production and 98% would still have to live from it. There are 7 billion people in this world and to lift them out of poverty they would have to be educated and motivated to produce something of value (new wealth) that they could exchange for the value someone else produces

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

Cheers