Red flagging Thai aviation safety is normal procedure

[Grusa]

A true story for you.

A certain Thai senior pilot for a certain Thai national carrier, likes to fly light aircraft from a certain highly popular tourist island. The aircraft he likes to fly is not his, he has no financial interest in it. One day, it is being serviced and inspected for its annual Certificate of Airworthiness, by Thai certificated mechanics. They are finishing off the job, adjusting the tick-over speed of the engine. The said pilot is showing around some friends, intending to take them flying.

"The tickover is set too fast, make it slower" says he. "But the book says minimum 1700 rpm," says mechanic.

"I am a senior ATPL pilot, I know best, do what I say" says our hero.

Being Thailand the mechanics defer and set the tickover far too slow. Our hero takes off, with a friend, flies low over the water, and on approaching an island says, "now I am going to show you how safe these little aeroplanes are!", and closes the throttle, expecting to glide to the island, demonstrate a practice forced landing, open the throttle and go. But, because the idle was set too slow, now the engine stops. Oh dear, suddenly it's a REAL forced landing, no time to restart the engine, nowhere to go, and actually he is not very good at this, even though it is basic training.......he reaches land, but trashes the aircraft. Fortunately, no serious injuries.

This guy is retired from said national carrier, but still flies for one of the low cost local ones, and has huge influence, by virtue of his seniority, in Thai aviation circles. No one here has any power to curb his influence, or stupidity. He still takes people flying in aircraft which are not his, not safe, and dictates who can or cannot fly.

[lovelomsak]

sad... Thailand really has a long way to go...

all Thai aircraft are worthless as they don't do proper maintenance or have proper maintenance records.

i guess it is OK as long as they keep flying around inside their own bubble world country.

i wonder if the Thai Air Force does the same thing?

I am fairly sure the Thai Airforce is the same. A few years ago they had a series of crashes with their helicopters. I believe the blame was put on inferior replacement parts purchased at low prices. I cannot remember exactly how many accidents there were in a short time but i think it was 4 in less than 2 weeks. Maybe some else here could give the correct number of crashs.

Just googgles it was 3 crashs in 2011 july 16,july19 and july24. The july19 crash happened while trying to assist at the crash site of july 16. Great huh.

Edited June 19, 2015 by lovelomsak

[geriatrickid]

ACM Prajin said his assistant, Arkom Termpittayapaisith, traveled to the ICAO headquarters in Canada to negotiate for more time to address the agency's safety concerns, and sent him a text message that the ICAO had agreed not to publish any information about Thailand's failure to meet the agency's standards.

"But yesterday the ICAO ended up putting red flag on Thailand on its website," ACM Prajin said. "That means the president of the ICAO did not do what he told Mr. Arkom. I am really confused why this happened. I have to admit that there was some miscommunication, but whether it was a miscommunication between me and Arkom, or between Arkom and the ICAO president, we are still checking about that."

1. 1st Paragraph may not be good news for travelers who keep insisting BKK sucks.: Arkom most likely flew into YYZ and experienced the long wait at Canada Border Services and then if he flew on Thai/ANA/United/Air Canada most likely experienced the misery that is Air Canada's baggage service with a wait of between 30 and 60 minutes on a good day. Then the long walk to domestic departures. And then the disgusting YUL airport experience with the even slower baggage delivery and the filthy arrivals hall. Hopefully he had someone meeting him and did not take a taxi as the Montreal taxis make Bangkoks look like professional and honest in comparison. Also the YUL taxi to the city is approx. 1200 baht and the driver has a fit if no tip. All this to say, that the welcome to Canada experience will convince this person that BKK is superior in every way, and safer too.

2. ICAO did not make a public announcement. There was no press release. ICAO doesn't do that with the red flags.

This does not mean that the red flag is not given. Talk about Thai mentality and procedures vs. proper management procedures.

[casindonet]

It clearly shows how arrogant this bone head people are.....instead admitting they have a problem, they claim being red flagged is normal. I certainly hope that ICAO would just issue a banned order.

[Jay Sata]

A true story for you.

A certain Thai senior pilot for a certain Thai national carrier, likes to fly light aircraft from a certain highly popular tourist island. The aircraft he likes to fly is not his, he has no financial interest in it. One day, it is being serviced and inspected for its annual Certificate of Airworthiness, by Thai certificated mechanics. They are finishing off the job, adjusting the tick-over speed of the engine. The said pilot is showing around some friends, intending to take them flying.

"The tickover is set too fast, make it slower" says he. "But the book says minimum 1700 rpm," says mechanic.

"I am a senior ATPL pilot, I know best, do what I say" says our hero.

Being Thailand the mechanics defer and set the tickover far too slow. Our hero takes off, with a friend, flies low over the water, and on approaching an island says, "now I am going to show you how safe these little aeroplanes are!", and closes the throttle, expecting to glide to the island, demonstrate a practice forced landing, open the throttle and go. But, because the idle was set too slow, now the engine stops. Oh dear, suddenly it's a REAL forced landing, no time to restart the engine, nowhere to go, and actually he is not very good at this, even though it is basic training.......he reaches land, but trashes the aircraft. Fortunately, no serious injuries.

This guy is retired from said national carrier, but still flies for one of the low cost local ones, and has huge influence, by virtue of his seniority, in Thai aviation circles. No one here has any power to curb his influence, or stupidity. He still takes people flying in aircraft which are not his, not safe, and dictates who can or cannot fly.

Sorry to spoil a good yarn but got my licence over 30 years ago and am with the pilot on this. If it was a conventional light aircraft then a 'tickover' of 1700rpm would present huge problems on the ground as the aircraft would want to taxi close to take off speed. Depending on the engine 600 to 800 is more normal.

As for the poster thinking speed tape on an engine cowling is life threatening then I have to disapoint you.

As its name implies it sticks to aluminium at high speed and is mostly used to cover minor airframe imperfections to improve airflow.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Jay Sata

[casualbiker]

I thought they were originally red flagged in 2005!

[Inepto Cracy]

sad... Thailand really has a long way to go...

all Thai aircraft are worthless as they don't do proper maintenance or have proper maintenance records.

i guess it is OK as long as they keep flying around inside their own bubble world country.

i wonder if the Thai Air Force does the same thing?

Yes. There were three fatal helicopter crashes this year by Thai Military Choppers.

[Jimlove]

Impossible to make this up - Even ICAO must be able to see now that the Thais are trying to make fools of them ...

Just ban them right a way, maybe that can get them of the couch and actually do something elser than fill other people with BS even tho they are the Masters of that ...

ICAO have to learn to say : "Dont thai us" ...

[Grusa]

A true story for you.

A certain Thai senior pilot for a certain Thai national carrier, likes to fly light aircraft from a certain highly popular tourist island. The aircraft he likes to fly is not his, he has no financial interest in it. One day, it is being serviced and inspected for its annual Certificate of Airworthiness, by Thai certificated mechanics. They are finishing off the job, adjusting the tick-over speed of the engine. The said pilot is showing around some friends, intending to take them flying.

"The tickover is set too fast, make it slower" says he. "But the book says minimum 1700 rpm," says mechanic.

"I am a senior ATPL pilot, I know best, do what I say" says our hero.

Being Thailand the mechanics defer and set the tickover far too slow. Our hero takes off, with a friend, flies low over the water, and on approaching an island says, "now I am going to show you how safe these little aeroplanes are!", and closes the throttle, expecting to glide to the island, demonstrate a practice forced landing, open the throttle and go. But, because the idle was set too slow, now the engine stops. Oh dear, suddenly it's a REAL forced landing, no time to restart the engine, nowhere to go, and actually he is not very good at this, even though it is basic training.......he reaches land, but trashes the aircraft. Fortunately, no serious injuries.

This guy is retired from said national carrier, but still flies for one of the low cost local ones, and has huge influence, by virtue of his seniority, in Thai aviation circles. No one here has any power to curb his influence, or stupidity. He still takes people flying in aircraft which are not his, not safe, and dictates who can or cannot fly.

Sorry to spoil a good yarn but got my licence over 30 years ago and am with the pilot on this. If it was a conventional light aircraft then a 'tickover' of 1700rpm would present huge problems on the ground as the aircraft would want to taxi close to take off speed. Depending on the engine 600 to 800 is more normal.

As for the poster thinking speed tape on an engine cowling is life threatening then I have to disapoint you.

As its name implies it sticks to aluminium at high speed and is mostly used to cover minor airframe imperfections to improve airflow.

[Grusa]

A true story for you.

A certain Thai senior pilot for a certain Thai national carrier, likes to fly light aircraft from a certain highly popular tourist island. The aircraft he likes to fly is not his, he has no financial interest in it. One day, it is being serviced and inspected for its annual Certificate of Airworthiness, by Thai certificated mechanics. They are finishing off the job, adjusting the tick-over speed of the engine. The said pilot is showing around some friends, intending to take them flying.

"The tickover is set too fast, make it slower" says he. "But the book says minimum 1700 rpm," says mechanic.

"I am a senior ATPL pilot, I know best, do what I say" says our hero.

Being Thailand the mechanics defer and set the tickover far too slow. Our hero takes off, with a friend, flies low over the water, and on approaching an island says, "now I am going to show you how safe these little aeroplanes are!", and closes the throttle, expecting to glide to the island, demonstrate a practice forced landing, open the throttle and go. But, because the idle was set too slow, now the engine stops. Oh dear, suddenly it's a REAL forced landing, no time to restart the engine, nowhere to go, and actually he is not very good at this, even though it is basic training.......he reaches land, but trashes the aircraft. Fortunately, no serious injuries.

This guy is retired from said national carrier, but still flies for one of the low cost local ones, and has huge influence, by virtue of his seniority, in Thai aviation circles. No one here has any power to curb his influence, or stupidity. He still takes people flying in aircraft which are not his, not safe, and dictates who can or cannot fly.

Sorry to spoil a good yarn but got my licence over 30 years ago and am with the pilot on this. If it was a conventional light aircraft then a 'tickover' of 1700rpm would present huge problems on the ground as the aircraft would want to taxi close to take off speed. Depending on the engine 600 to 800 is more normal.

As for the poster thinking speed tape on an engine cowling is life threatening then I have to disapoint you.

As its name implies it sticks to aluminium at high speed and is mostly used to cover minor airframe imperfections to improve airflow.

[Grusa]

A true story for you.

A certain Thai senior pilot for a certain Thai national carrier, likes to fly light aircraft from a certain highly popular tourist island. The aircraft he likes to fly is not his, he has no financial interest in it. One day, it is being serviced and inspected for its annual Certificate of Airworthiness, by Thai certificated mechanics. They are finishing off the job, adjusting the tick-over speed of the engine. The said pilot is showing around some friends, intending to take them flying.

"The tickover is set too fast, make it slower" says he. "But the book says minimum 1700 rpm," says mechanic.

"I am a senior ATPL pilot, I know best, do what I say" says our hero.

Being Thailand the mechanics defer and set the tickover far too slow. Our hero takes off, with a friend, flies low over the water, and on approaching an island says, "now I am going to show you how safe these little aeroplanes are!", and closes the throttle, expecting to glide to the island, demonstrate a practice forced landing, open the throttle and go. But, because the idle was set too slow, now the engine stops. Oh dear, suddenly it's a REAL forced landing, no time to restart the engine, nowhere to go, and actually he is not very good at this, even though it is basic training.......he reaches land, but trashes the aircraft. Fortunately, no serious injuries.

This guy is retired from said national carrier, but still flies for one of the low cost local ones, and has huge influence, by virtue of his seniority, in Thai aviation circles. No one here has any power to curb his influence, or stupidity. He still takes people flying in aircraft which are not his, not safe, and dictates who can or cannot fly.

Sorry to spoil a good yarn but got my licence over 30 years ago and am with the pilot on this. If it was a conventional light aircraft then a 'tickover' of 1700rpm would present huge problems on the ground as the aircraft would want to taxi close to take off speed. Depending on the engine 600 to 800 is more normal.

As for the poster thinking speed tape on an engine cowling is life threatening then I have to disapoint you.

As its name implies it sticks to aluminium at high speed and is mostly used to cover minor airframe imperfections to improve airflow.

I suggest, if you achieved your licence 30 years ago, that you look into modern engine technology. the PROPELLOR rpm might be around 600, Rotax engines have gearboxes and ENGINE rpm is much higher. I further suggest that if you were a current and active pilot in Thailand you would already know this story, and the names and places involved - we all do! My story is anonymised for obvious reasons, but 100% true and verifiable.

As to speed tape, I do not know where this reference comes from, nothing to do with my post!

[Jay Sata]

The story refered to an aircraft with a certificate of airworthiness. Most of these have either Lycoming or Continental engines which are flat out at 2700rpm.

I take it you are refering to what in Europe are termed microlight or ultralight aircraft powered by Rotax engines originaly designed for snowmobiles. In Thailand most of these are in a catagory designated and placarded as Expermental.

I can't speak for homebuilts but the Rotax powered Katana which I have flown has an idle speed of 950rpm.

Whatever the idle speed should have no effect of making a demand for power at idle. I think you may be refering to an accident caused by carb icing.

You can't have much flying experience if you have never come across speed tape.

I am all for raising issues with aviation safety in Thailand but please stick to the truth.

The issues discussed here have nothing to do with General Aviation in Thailand but if you want to discuss that on another thread feel free.

To get back on topic the problems with regulation go back a long way but had proper procedures been in place the One Two Go accident that killed so many innocent people at Phuket some years ago would never have happened.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Carl64]

Students failing a test tend not to wipe out hundreds of lives in one foul swoop. Unlike air safety deficiencies .

[Srikcir]

Hanging is a normal procedure for a death sentence but that doesn't give the convicted any solace.

[fritzzz25]

Well here is a RED FLAG for you to start with then...

NOK AIR FLIGHT DD9515 to Don Muang on 15 June

Since when did Duct Tape become a standard practice for holding critical Engine Clips in place?

I guarantee it hasn't been fixed since Monday either....

Just what are customers supposed to feel when they look out of the window and see this???

FullSizeRender.jpg

FullSizeRender_3.jpg

FullSizeRender_4.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_tape

And those "engine clips" are not "critical" to holding the engine to the wing. They hold the cowl on to the engine.