The terrorism the US is turning a blind eye to

[sirineou]

I wonder though, what will happened if the 9 dead people would have been white people

at a restaurant, would the story be as big had there were no racial and religious undertone

to it? would they still call it terrorism or hate crime? can a white man be accused of hate

crime killing his own kind?

In the US now day, everything is about race, even if it has nothing to do with race, some

one will find a way to connect it and make a big noise out of it, for fame, money, influence

or just to be seem relevant, would it ever change and be better? Never...as there always

will be powerful people who will not let peace be....

If a militant black organization committed a massacre against white people with the stated intent to start a race war, we would certainly call it terrorism, same if the situation was reversed and the group was white.

Then why not if it was an individual? why not a lone terrorist? wasn't the incident designed to instill terror with in a large group of people with a specific goal in mind?

No doubt in my mind, A terrorist act

[FangFerang]

What happened was racist and hateful and inhumane, but we really need to STOP mangling our own language.

We love mangling our own language. Terrorism is a word used to describe "acts of violence with a political purpose". This was not political, it was racist and inhuman. A massacre is a killing of a large number of people, willfully and heartlessly. Nine people does not a massacre make.

We already have a war on drugs (let's bring in the military to annihilate an inanimate object), a rape culture (let's all go ISIS) and a radical stance (meaning sometimes to just speak the truth).

The situation is a tragic and evil one -- why should we dismember our own language when we have words to describe these terrible things already? I am sick of the people who are 'controlling the message'.

Edited June 21, 2015 by FangFerang

[Dumbastheycome]

It would appear that the USA has some numerous issues it needs deal with But it also appears that the distractive finger seems to be consistantly pointed elswhere. Ho hum. Situation normal.

[arjunadawn]

"Whether Racist or not there is a big problem and much reason to be leery of a group which makes up less than 26% of the population and does 65% of the crimes."

Can you provide a reference for such profound insight?

African Americans make up less than 15% of US population but are not responsible for 65% of the crimes, that honor goes to whites per FBI data:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

Maybe educate yourself instead spreading lies commonly thrown about by right wing talking heads.

Great, forceful response, only it is not correct. Black on black and black on white violence in America is epidemic. It is an inconvenient truth and no amount of gymnastics can change it. One may fudge numbers or plug in data to get a desired end but this cannot change the increasingly widely held observation that black on white crime is out of control, is aptly captured by White Girl Bleed A Lot and other niche media that are now considering the overwhelming data, and permissive media that refuse to report on violent crimes (unless necessary) if the attacker is black.

This is not terrorism as is currently and internationally accepted, though I agree it should be pretty damn close. But terrorism is definitively something very different. If we begin to walk down the road of calling such things terrorist there is no end to where it could stop. I could, for example, be labeled as abetting terrorism for simply providing a contrary point of view. This is horrific, it is a hate crime (an otherwise meaningless label for thought crime- murder is murder is murder), but this is not terrorism.

I would not race to call someone a liar when a causal link to support your view is simply more than another poster. Links and data are everywhere and so are points of view but the character of a man can be uniquely inferred by the manner in which he addresses those with differing views. Black on white violence is not limited to the US either. The phenomena is widespread. Therefore, when looking for causation it simply must be considered that there is evidence that extends beyond borders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jBMM7C7IEE

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/10/obama-doj-growth-in-violent-crimes-against-whites/

http://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime/

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/jack-kerwick/black-on-white-violence-why-it-matters/

http://www.libertynews.com/2014/12/facts-cops-kill-whites-at-almost-double-the-rate-that-cops-kill-blacks/

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=21594

Earlier I noted the SPLC did not list the New Black Panthers. I was incorrect.

Edited June 21, 2015 by arjunadawn

[sgtsabai]

From Wikipedia "In the meantime, the international community adopted a series of sectoral conventions that define and criminalize various types of terrorist activities. In addition, since 1994, the United Nations General Assembly has condemned terrorist acts using the following political description of terrorism: "Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them."[6]" Whether a lone wolf terrorist or not, Roof is a terrorist. Boy the racists have sure come out of the woodwork on this, doing anything and everything to mangle, demean, change the subject to where it looks like black people are the problem, not racist America. After all, white folks must be defended in general while they blame everything on blacks, especially Obama who has done absolutely nothing to invite a "race war" or black toward white hatred. Hell, he wouldn't have to do anything to get blacks to hate whites, history alone does that. That little prick was a racist terrorist, period.

[arjunadawn]

Black people are not the problem, government polices and manipulation are the problem. The remainder are facts secondary to this.

[nemrut]

From Wikipedia "In the meantime, the international community adopted a series of sectoral conventions that define and criminalize various types of terrorist activities. In addition, since 1994, the United Nations General Assembly has condemned terrorist acts using the following political description of terrorism: "Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them."[6]" Whether a lone wolf terrorist or not, Roof is a terrorist. Boy the racists have sure come out of the woodwork on this, doing anything and everything to mangle, demean, change the subject to where it looks like black people are the problem, not racist America. After all, white folks must be defended in general while they blame everything on blacks, especially Obama who has done absolutely nothing to invite a "race war" or black toward white hatred. Hell, he wouldn't have to do anything to get blacks to hate whites, history alone does that. That little prick was a racist terrorist, period.

It's interesting that all the mass shootings in the US during last 20yrs, except for one, were by white males. Let's not forget the serial killers from Jeffrey Dahmer to Ted Bundy have all been white. Each and every time, the media along with most whites proclaim these individuals had mental issues and are isolated incidents. Yet they happen over and over again.

At some point white Americans need to acknowledge the problem of violence among their own, and why as a developed society, there is so much of it compared to other wealthy countries.

[asean]

Why is this event even News? It's just another everyday shooting in USA.

[Jingthing]

Dylann Roof -- white terrorist.

It's bizarre that telegraphing this basic truth is so hard in white majority USA!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/magazine/white-terrorism-is-as-old-as-america.html

White Terrorism Is as Old as America
In America’s contemporary imagination, terrorism is foreign and brown. Those terrorists do not have complex motivations. We do not urge one another to reserve judgment until we search through their Facebook histories or interview their friends. We do not trot out psychologists to analyze their mental states. We know immediately why they kill. But a white terrorist is an enigma. A white terrorist has no history, no context, no origin. He is forever unknowable. His very existence is unspeakable. We see him, but we pretend we cannot. He is a ghost floating in the night.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/magazine/before-charlestons-church-shooting-a-long-history-of-attacks.html?_r=0

Before Charleston’s Church Shooting, a Long History of Attacks

In the coming days, the world will find out more about Dylann Storm Roof and his state of mind. But to dismiss him as simply a troubled young man is to disregard history. For 198 years, angry whites have attacked Emanuel A.M.E. and its congregation, and when its leaders have fused faith with political activism, white vigilantes have used terror to silence its ministers and mute its message of progress and hope. Denmark Vesey’s story should never be forgotten — nor should the tragedy of June 17.

[Jingthing]

Why is this event even News? It's just another everyday shooting in USA.

No, it isn't.

It was a terrorist attack.

[redandyellow]

I know an American Author living in Chiang Mai - he has a Doctorate Degree.

He told me that us Canadians know more about the U.S. than many Americans do.

He also told me that (in general) Americans know nothing about Canada, and could care less. They know nothing about the rest of the world, and could care less.

IMHO - America's problems are best solved by the Americans, just as Thailand's are best solved by the Thais.

That's why I'll keep my opinions on the U.S. to myself.

And because we all think we "know" more than the next guy..

Signed,

Deluded

[Publicus]

From Wikipedia "In the meantime, the international community adopted a series of sectoral conventions that define and criminalize various types of terrorist activities. In addition, since 1994, the United Nations General Assembly has condemned terrorist acts using the following political description of terrorism: "Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them."[6]" Whether a lone wolf terrorist or not, Roof is a terrorist. Boy the racists have sure come out of the woodwork on this, doing anything and everything to mangle, demean, change the subject to where it looks like black people are the problem, not racist America. After all, white folks must be defended in general while they blame everything on blacks, especially Obama who has done absolutely nothing to invite a "race war" or black toward white hatred. Hell, he wouldn't have to do anything to get blacks to hate whites, history alone does that. That little prick was a racist terrorist, period.

The post is worth revisiting whether one had initially read it or not.

Concisely and well done it is.

(Saved me a lot of carrying on about it )

[Lukecan]

Damn I thought this massacre was commited by some ISIS symphatizer. Cant believe the perpetrator turned out to be a redneck.

[neeray]

well if you have a backward country saying ..its my right to bear arms or what ever what do you expect..only losers need guns..oh and the police/military..

America has approximately 300 million people. There is approximately an equal number of guns .... enough for every man, woman and child to own one. This incident will probably see gun sales "shoot up". Even some pastors now pack a gun. Probably more will soon.

God Bless America.

[cookee68]

Can a killing not just be called a killing, or do people just enjoy the protests and destruction every time a black person is killed, do white people get killed in the US as well or not, cos I don't see the protesting, he did not like blacks and killed them, so lets treat it as that, a murderer, does the colour matter, and terrorist attack well that's for each and everyone to their own opinion,

[sirineou]

Can a killing not just be called a killing, or do people just enjoy the protests and destruction every time a black person is killed, do white people get killed in the US as well or not, cos I don't see the protesting, he did not like blacks and killed them, so lets treat it as that, a murderer, does the colour matter, and terrorist attack well that's for each and everyone to their own opinion,

would you be saying the same if the situation was reversed?

[simple1]

Dylann Roof -- white terrorist.

It's bizarre that telegraphing this basic truth is so hard in white majority USA!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/magazine/white-terrorism-is-as-old-as-america.html

White Terrorism Is as Old as America

In America’s contemporary imagination, terrorism is foreign and brown. Those terrorists do not have complex motivations. We do not urge one another to reserve judgment until we search through their Facebook histories or interview their friends. We do not trot out psychologists to analyze their mental states. We know immediately why they kill. But a white terrorist is an enigma. A white terrorist has no history, no context, no origin. He is forever unknowable. His very existence is unspeakable. We see him, but we pretend we cannot. He is a ghost floating in the night.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/magazine/before-charlestons-church-shooting-a-long-history-of-attacks.html?_r=0

Before Charleston’s Church Shooting, a Long History of Attacks

In the coming days, the world will find out more about Dylann Storm Roof and his state of mind. But to dismiss him as simply a troubled young man is to disregard history. For 198 years, angry whites have attacked Emanuel A.M.E. and its congregation, and when its leaders have fused faith with political activism, white vigilantes have used terror to silence its ministers and mute its message of progress and hope. Denmark Vesey’s story should never be forgotten — nor should the tragedy of June 17.

I find it interesting the the guy's manifesto (even if he didn't write it, still confirms his thought processes as hosted on his website) is heavily interlaced with hatred of Jews, yet so far as I can ascertain minimal mention of this in the media.

[ABCer]

I wonder though, what will happened if the 9 dead people would have been white people

at a restaurant, would the story be as big had there were no racial and religious undertone

to it? would they still call it terrorism or hate crime? can a white man be accused of hate

crime killing his own kind?

In the US now day, everything is about race, even if it has nothing to do with race, some

one will find a way to connect it and make a big noise out of it, for fame, money, influence

or just to be seem relevant, would it ever change and be better? Never...as there always

will be powerful people who will not let peace be....

I'm sorry sir, but you are an idiot.

Can't you comprehend what you read?

Of course it was a hate crime because the shooter stated that he wanted to start a race war by deliberately targeting this church with a black congregation.

He identified with white supremacists, he identified with historical white racist governments.

This is the very definition of a hate crime

There can be no other interpretation.

I am sorry.

I am sorry for bobmac10.

We are trying here to have meaningful discussion. This allows by definition people to have different views.

Not knowing anything about these ezzra or bobmac10 fellows I protest the way this discussion is taking.

Calling anybody an idiot is a personal insult.

This Big Mac intelligence you demonstrate shows one thing only: - you cannot argue, you are illogical and you are a Boer.

Let me demonstrate to you by using your own words:

"Of course it was a hate crime because the shooter stated that he wanted to start a race war by deliberately targeting this church with a black congregation.

He identified with white supremacists, he identified with historical white racist governments.

This is the very definition of a hate crime

There can be no other interpretation."

If he wanted to start a race war - this act is a provocation! Or rather a failed attempt to provoke (so far).

If he identified himself with white racist governments - his act is a political murder or a political statement.

Many people here consider his act as an act of Domestic Terrorism (I disagree with this).

I think semantics are irrelevant as this guy earned his death sentence by any count.

Here are 3 (three) other interpretations. Which you refuse or rather are not capable of seeing.

Which leaves me no other interpretation than - YOU are an idiot!

It is opening a big question as to who or rather what are all the people who gave you their 'Likes'.

Edited June 22, 2015 by ABCer

[Jingthing]

Dylann Roof -- white terrorist.

It's bizarre that telegraphing this basic truth is so hard in white majority USA!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/magazine/white-terrorism-is-as-old-as-america.html

White Terrorism Is as Old as America

In America’s contemporary imagination, terrorism is foreign and brown. Those terrorists do not have complex motivations. We do not urge one another to reserve judgment until we search through their Facebook histories or interview their friends. We do not trot out psychologists to analyze their mental states. We know immediately why they kill. But a white terrorist is an enigma. A white terrorist has no history, no context, no origin. He is forever unknowable. His very existence is unspeakable. We see him, but we pretend we cannot. He is a ghost floating in the night.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/magazine/before-charlestons-church-shooting-a-long-history-of-attacks.html?_r=0

Before Charleston’s Church Shooting, a Long History of Attacks

In the coming days, the world will find out more about Dylann Storm Roof and his state of mind. But to dismiss him as simply a troubled young man is to disregard history. For 198 years, angry whites have attacked Emanuel A.M.E. and its congregation, and when its leaders have fused faith with political activism, white vigilantes have used terror to silence its ministers and mute its message of progress and hope. Denmark Vesey’s story should never be forgotten — nor should the tragedy of June 17.

I find it interesting the the guy's manifesto (even if he didn't write it, still confirms his thought processes as hosted on his website) is heavily interlaced with hatred of Jews, yet so far as I can ascertain minimal mention of this in the media.

It's not emphasized because it is well known that Jew hatred is typical with such Southern bigots and also because he didn't happen to shoot up Jews. As such, it is not really big news.

About the racist manifesto on that racist website, there has been a report that people who know him say it sounds like his thought processes, especially the inspiration moment related to Trayvon Martin. The bizarre pictures certainly appear to be him, yes?

Edited June 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[simple1]

I find it interesting the the guy's manifesto (even if he didn't write it, still confirms his thought processes as hosted on his website) is heavily interlaced with hatred of Jews, yet so far as I can ascertain minimal mention of this in the media.

It's not emphasized because it is well known that Jew hatred is typical with such Southern bigots and also because he didn't happen to shoot up Jews. As such, it is not really big news.

About the racist manifesto on that racist website, there has been a report that people who know him say it sounds like his thought processes, especially the inspiration moment related to Trayvon Martin. The bizarre pictures certainly appear to be him, yes?

Post removed to enable reply.

YES & IMO he did write the content, but for sure I'd be attacked right now by right wing sympathisers for posting this view as it's yet to be confirmed by the FBI.

[Jingthing]

The guy confessed already, he has live witnesses to his murders, and he's also been open about his race wars motivation. So as far as his trial is concerned for murders, I don't think the website is important. That might be different if there is any legal/political reason to classify the case as domestic terrorism, which it obviously is, but not sure how that impacts on any trials as he will likely be executed regardless.

[Merzik]

You know nothing about my country or its people.

Racism and prejudice are not endemic in the American people, the vast majority of whom are tolerant, if not loving.

Racism and hate is screamed from the rooftops, however, by our divisive government spokespersons, including the President, and very much so by western media, permeating both the journalistic and "entertainment" industries like the stench of rotted flesh on cloth. These people are the ones who are deliberately, methodically, seeking to incite us to hate each other, and so to commit violence against each other.

Either you have been brainwashed, or you know this, and are too trying to brainwash the masses.

So I take it that what I read about slavery and the Ku klux Klan is all in the imagination of some writers.

Slavery ended in the U.S. in 1865. Today there are probably about 5,000 Ku Klux Klan (KKK) members nationwide and they are considered a subversive or terrorists organisation. Since you already read about slavery and the KKK you already know this, so what's up with the silly post.

And once slavery ended daily lynchings continued to the 1920s-30s with cases reported to 1950s. Let's not forget segregation but that wouldn't fit into your narrative that because slavery ended long ago it should be a non-issue.

From wiki:

"The Tuskegee Institute has recorded 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites being lynched between 1882 and 1968, with the annual peak occurring in the 1890s, at a time of economic stress in the South and political suppression.[3] "

Any lynching is one too many. I do not approve of this or defend any of it. Yet the numbers are much smaller than people who use Hollywood movies for their historical understanding believe. Many of those lynched were innocent victims; others were legitimate criminals "caught-in-the-act" and given immediate street justice. This is common all over the world in rural areas or places where there is not adequate policing . The number of blacks in America at the end of slavery was estimated at 400,000 by wikipedia. Now they number about 35-40 million. They were discriminated against until the 1960s, and some were unfortunately murdered ; but most lived much better than their brothers back in Africa and their numbers have increased dramatically. Minority groups all over the planet have faced similar histories, and more times that not, much harsher and tragic circumstances.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Merzik

[chuckd]

Can a killing not just be called a killing, or do people just enjoy the protests and destruction every time a black person is killed, do white people get killed in the US as well or not, cos I don't see the protesting, he did not like blacks and killed them, so lets treat it as that, a murderer, does the colour matter, and terrorist attack well that's for each and everyone to their own opinion,

would you be saying the same if the situation was reversed?

I doubt he would be saying anything. If the situation was reversed it wouldn't even be on the forum as a news event.

[Merzik]

Can a killing not just be called a killing, or do people just enjoy the protests and destruction every time a black person is killed, do white people get killed in the US as well or not, cos I don't see the protesting, he did not like blacks and killed them, so lets treat it as that, a murderer, does the colour matter, and terrorist attack well that's for each and everyone to their own opinion,

would you be saying the same if the situation was reversed?

Whites are murdered, raped and victims of violent black crime every day in America ; usually with little or no media attention or politicians expressing their remorse or asking why this is taking place. White-on-black crime ( when it happens) gets all the media attention with the political whores ( no offense to sex workers) all crying and whining about racism. Whites are far more likely to victims of black criminals than the reverse case; yet those who depend on television for their news would obviously not know this fact.

[Merzik]

"Whether Racist or not there is a big problem and much reason to be leery of a group which makes up less than 26% of the population and does 65% of the crimes."

Can you provide a reference for such profound insight?

African Americans make up less than 15% of US population but are not responsible for 65% of the crimes, that honor goes to whites per FBI data:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

Maybe educate yourself instead spreading lies commonly thrown about by right wing talking heads.

As you said; blacks at 15% of the population do not commit the majority of the crime; but they are committing a vastly higher percentage of violent crime based on their percentage of residents. Black-on-white violent crime in particular dwarfs that of white-on-black. It is you that needs to do some research.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[Pinot]

Reading this thread is sad. The racism in the United States grows, lived by the Repubs as a cornerstone of their learned (and pathetic) beliefs: We have a god given right to hate anyone that's not like the rest of us white guys.

"We need guns because the darkies are coming to kill us." And it's all Obama and Hillery's fault. The twisted illogical mindset of the Right.

Oh my Buddha...

Edited June 22, 2015 by Scott

[Merzik]

Reading this thread is sad. The racism in the United States grows, lived by the Repubs as a cornerstone of their learned (and pathetic) beliefs: We have a god given right to hate anyone that's not like the rest of us white guys.

"We need guns because the darkies are coming to kill us." And it's all Obama and Hillery's fault. The twisted illogical mindset of the Right.

Oh my Buddha...

There is far more racial politics being played by the political left than the right. Tune in to Al Sharpton's MSNBC program if you doubt this. Sharpton is a frequent visiter to the White House where he chums with obama despite his long record of lying and making outrageous racist statments about European -Americans. The number of overtly racist remarks by leftists directed against the majority population is endless.

[Scott]

A post with an inflammatory label has been edited.

[Ulysses G.]

"Whether Racist or not there is a big problem and much reason to be leery of a group which makes up less than 26% of the population and does 65% of the crimes."

Can you provide a reference for such profound insight?

African Americans make up less than 15% of US population but are not responsible for 65% of the crimes, that honor goes to whites per FBI data:

Please post accurate statistics. African Americans make up something like 13% of the population, but commit 28.4% of the crimes overall and 50% of the homicides. Blacks are 8 times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and 8 times more likely to commit robbery.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Ulysses G.