Confederate flag sets off debate in 2016 Republican class

[lostoday]

And the typical right wing personal attacks continue because the right doesn't have a leg to stand on. That is the typical right wing tactic. Pardner, if you want to call me a liar, you better try it to my face, I'm no keyboard warrior. I live in Udon and I'm not hard to find. I hope I'm very, very disturbing to the right wing wacko's, there are a lot of us out there, many, many more than the racist, teabagging, troglodyte wacko's could possibly imagine. We are not the "peace, love, dope, and good vibes" people you think of when you think of "liberals. You are presented with facts that you cannot accept because they are true. That nutcase with the flags is a disgrace to the Marine Corp, if he ever was one. Oh, that photo of "black people", exactly how many do you count? The US has been on a downhill slide since the Reagun regime, economical slide aided by Bill Clinton. I grew up in the south, it is the most racist, bigoted, faux christian part of the US, not that you won't find that it other parts. Oh my, the government forced a restaurant in where, oh yea that's right, racist Alabama, to allow black customers in. And that is bad exactly how? Does someone actually believe that black people should be kept out of anyplace because they are black? The woodwork is crawling and the racist colors are showing.

Since my post is above yours I assume you are writing to me. Are you?

[chuckd]

And the typical right wing personal attacks continue because the right doesn't have a leg to stand on. That is the typical right wing tactic. Pardner, if you want to call me a liar, you better try it to my face, I'm no keyboard warrior. I live in Udon and I'm not hard to find. I hope I'm very, very disturbing to the right wing wacko's, there are a lot of us out there, many, many more than the racist, teabagging, troglodyte wacko's could possibly imagine. We are not the "peace, love, dope, and good vibes" people you think of when you think of "liberals. You are presented with facts that you cannot accept because they are true. That nutcase with the flags is a disgrace to the Marine Corp, if he ever was one. Oh, that photo of "black people", exactly how many do you count? The US has been on a downhill slide since the Reagun regime, economical slide aided by Bill Clinton. I grew up in the south, it is the most racist, bigoted, faux christian part of the US, not that you won't find that it other parts. Oh my, the government forced a restaurant in where, oh yea that's right, racist Alabama, to allow black customers in. And that is bad exactly how? Does someone actually believe that black people should be kept out of anyplace because they are black? The woodwork is crawling and the racist colors are showing.

Your claim that you just finished watching GWTW just at the precise moment you needed to was one of two things.

It was either a coincidence or a lie. I ask again, which was it.

PS: I live a little over 100 clicks from Udorn. Jump on your Honda Dream and come on over.

[chuckd]

And the typical right wing personal attacks continue because the right doesn't have a leg to stand on. That is the typical right wing tactic. Pardner, if you want to call me a liar, you better try it to my face, I'm no keyboard warrior. I live in Udon and I'm not hard to find. I hope I'm very, very disturbing to the right wing wacko's, there are a lot of us out there, many, many more than the racist, teabagging, troglodyte wacko's could possibly imagine. We are not the "peace, love, dope, and good vibes" people you think of when you think of "liberals. You are presented with facts that you cannot accept because they are true. That nutcase with the flags is a disgrace to the Marine Corp, if he ever was one. Oh, that photo of "black people", exactly how many do you count? The US has been on a downhill slide since the Reagun regime, economical slide aided by Bill Clinton. I grew up in the south, it is the most racist, bigoted, faux christian part of the US, not that you won't find that it other parts. Oh my, the government forced a restaurant in where, oh yea that's right, racist Alabama, to allow black customers in. And that is bad exactly how? Does someone actually believe that black people should be kept out of anyplace because they are black? The woodwork is crawling and the racist colors are showing.

Since my post is above yours I assume you are writing to me. Are you?

Nah. His post of bravado is aimed at me from several posts back. He is always making this threatening invitation to anybody that disagrees with him to say something to his face.

I have now been invited to the party.

[lostoday]

And the typical right wing personal attacks continue because the right doesn't have a leg to stand on. That is the typical right wing tactic. Pardner, if you want to call me a liar, you better try it to my face, I'm no keyboard warrior. I live in Udon and I'm not hard to find. I hope I'm very, very disturbing to the right wing wacko's, there are a lot of us out there, many, many more than the racist, teabagging, troglodyte wacko's could possibly imagine. We are not the "peace, love, dope, and good vibes" people you think of when you think of "liberals. You are presented with facts that you cannot accept because they are true. That nutcase with the flags is a disgrace to the Marine Corp, if he ever was one. Oh, that photo of "black people", exactly how many do you count? The US has been on a downhill slide since the Reagun regime, economical slide aided by Bill Clinton. I grew up in the south, it is the most racist, bigoted, faux christian part of the US, not that you won't find that it other parts. Oh my, the government forced a restaurant in where, oh yea that's right, racist Alabama, to allow black customers in. And that is bad exactly how? Does someone actually believe that black people should be kept out of anyplace because they are black? The woodwork is crawling and the racist colors are showing.

I Think 20 attended the event.

http://www.scv357.org/images/CV%201928%20Huntsville.jpg

[Publicus]

Why the F would someone want to fly that flag? It's super un american. These guys who used this flag in the 1860's were willing to leave America and fight a war and exterminate people to slave and rape and lynch people. These people were traitors to America and they lost.

Why are people honoring traitors who killed Americans? If anyone doubts me, look at the number of graves in Gettysburg or other cemeteries.

Would you rather be friends and relatives of people who like to enslave, lynch and rape?

Enough debate already. Admit it.. you're all f'ing idiots to want to be related to racist war mongering rapist slavers.

I can only presume your ignorance of the following might have caused your post.

You are blissfully unaware of Section 16 at Arlington National Cemetary which contains the remains of hundreds of Confederate soldiers killed in battle.

Arlington National Cemetary was opened in 1866 to honor the Civil War dead and was later amended to include Confederate war dead as well.

Would you have them reburied someplace more to your liking?

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/csa-mem.htm

The Confederate flag does not fly over Arlington National Cemetery. On Memorial Day, the confederates buried there get the US flag placed on their graves, which I'd hope makes the Rebs turn over in them.

Efforts over more than a hundred years have been unsuccessful to place statues in ANC to confederate leaders to include Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis the president of the Confederacy, Generals Stonewall Jackson, Jas Longstreet, George Pickett among others. A Confederate Memorial was placed in 1914 where those involved in annual ceremonies must bear the US flag and sing the national anthem.

After Pres Woodrow Wilson dedicated the Memorial he sent a wreath each year which became a presidential tradition until Pres Harry Truman broke it. It was Pres Truman who by executive order in 1947 racially integrated the armed forces, not Pres Eisenhower as previously claimed by a poster.

Each president after Truman sent a wreath until Pres GHW Bush did not. Pres Clinton and GWBush sent a wreath annually. Pres Obama sends an annual wreath but began a new tradition of also sending a wreath to the African-American Civil War Veterans Memorial in Washington DC.

I share the view of many black and white fellow veterans of the armed forces that US military bases currently named after generals of the Confederacy need to have the names removed in favor of the names of American patriots instead whose faithful loyalty of the Constitution is a matter of record.

Some of the most important U.S. Army bases in the country — including forts Hood, Bragg, Benning, Gordon and Polk — are named for Confederate officers, and one generally acknowledged to have been a leader of the Ku Klux Klan.

Apart from the residual pain of slavery, Jamie Malanowski, a journalist who has written on the Civil War, wrote that it was inappropriate to name military bases for men who led troops who killed U.S. Army soldiers.

“We simply should not name U.S. Army bases after people who fought the U.S. Army in battle,” Malanowski wrote in a widely published 2013 op-ed.

“The gesture honors one man, while it denigrates the struggle and the sacrifice of every U.S. soldier who faced him. It mocks them. It mocks the Union they preserved.”

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/opinions-mixed-on-changing-names-of-us-bases-that-honor-confederates-1.354614

[sgtsabai]

I count 2 blacks, exactly like the link said. I've watched GWtW several times, that wasn't the first by any means. It is on my hard drive. You want to call me a liar, come on over, let's party. I haven't had one since I threw a neo-nazi into the middle of the soi last year and that party was over much too soon. Like I said, I'm no keyboard warrior, unlike the right wingers that hide on this forum. Hoka Hey.

[Ulysses G.]

And the typical right wing personal attacks continue because the right doesn't have a leg to stand on. That is the typical right wing tactic. Pardner, if you want to call me a liar, you better try it to my face, I'm no keyboard warrior. I live in Udon and I'm not hard to find. I hope I'm very, very disturbing to the right wing wacko's, there are a lot of us out there, many, many more than the racist, teabagging, troglodyte wacko's could possibly imagine. We are not the "peace, love, dope, and good vibes" people you think of when you think of "liberals. You are presented with facts that you cannot accept because they are true. That nutcase with the flags is a disgrace to the Marine Corp, if he ever was one. Oh, that photo of "black people", exactly how many do you count? The US has been on a downhill slide since the Reagun regime, economical slide aided by Bill Clinton. I grew up in the south, it is the most racist, bigoted, faux christian part of the US, not that you won't find that it other parts. Oh my, the government forced a restaurant in where, oh yea that's right, racist Alabama, to allow black customers in. And that is bad exactly how? Does someone actually believe that black people should be kept out of anyplace because they are black? The woodwork is crawling and the racist colors are showing.

Since my post is above yours I assume you are writing to me. Are you?

Nah. His post of bravado is aimed at me from several posts back. He is always making this threatening invitation to anybody that disagrees with him to say something to his face.

I have now been invited to the party.

Isn't threatening other posters against Thai Visa rules? This poster does it continually as well as the constant insults towards anyone who holds different views.

[Scott]

Please stop baiting other posters.

[CMNightRider]

And the typical right wing personal attacks continue because the right doesn't have a leg to stand on. That is the typical right wing tactic. Pardner, if you want to call me a liar, you better try it to my face, I'm no keyboard warrior. I live in Udon and I'm not hard to find. I hope I'm very, very disturbing to the right wing wacko's, there are a lot of us out there, many, many more than the racist, teabagging, troglodyte wacko's could possibly imagine. We are not the "peace, love, dope, and good vibes" people you think of when you think of "liberals. You are presented with facts that you cannot accept because they are true. That nutcase with the flags is a disgrace to the Marine Corp, if he ever was one. Oh, that photo of "black people", exactly how many do you count? The US has been on a downhill slide since the Reagun regime, economical slide aided by Bill Clinton. I grew up in the south, it is the most racist, bigoted, faux christian part of the US, not that you won't find that it other parts. Oh my, the government forced a restaurant in where, oh yea that's right, racist Alabama, to allow black customers in. And that is bad exactly how? Does someone actually believe that black people should be kept out of anyplace because they are black? The woodwork is crawling and the racist colors are showing.

It appears anytime you encounter any sane poster who doesn't agree with your left wing loony rants, you refer to them as keyboard warriors and invite them to fight you. This is either a display of immaturity or you simply need your doctor to adjust your meds.

I did serve in the United States Marine Corps, and after completing a three year tour, was released in May 1964. I didn't fight in Vietnam, but I did spend two an a half years in Afghanistan, as a private contractor.

I doubt if anyone is interested in how tough you are or think you are, so you might considered toning that nonsense down. I would be happy to meet you for coffee if and when you visit CM.

I don't know if the Confederate flag will be taken down in South Carolina or not. I certainly hope it will remain flying since it represents nothing more than Southern pride, and has nothing to do with hating blacks. In my opinion, liberalism is worst than the bubonic plague, and is destroying the American way of life.

If a black person or anyone other person in America, is not employed, it is either because they are sick, lame, or lazy. America is still the land of opportunity, although liberals are trying their best to change that. Okay, nothing more to see here folks so keep moving along, lol.

[Scott]

If you wish to discuss private matters, you may do so by PM. This is an internet discussion forum and not a dating service, so please stop with the invitations whether meant as a warm and genuine gesture or as a threat. At a minimum, such discussions are off-topic, at most they are threatening and inflammatory.

The giving out of personal information, although it may be interesting, does not necessarily make someone's opinion more valid than another members. Experience and exposure does count for something, but obviously people with very similar experiences may have very different views on the same subject.

This thread is about a flag.

[KarenBravo]

It really doesn't matter what this flag originally stood for, the perception of what it stands for today is what matters.

Seems like it now stands for something offensive to a large chunk of society, so, it shouldn't be endorsed by the US government any more and be taken down.

[geriatrickid]

President Obama gave a very moving eulogy for the murdered senator. He mentioned the Confederate flag.

"For too long, we were blind to the pain that the Confederate flag stirred into many of our citizens. It's true a flag did not cause these murders. But as people from all walks of life, Republicans and Democrats, now acknowledge, including Governor Haley, whose recent eloquence on the subject is worthy of praise as we all have to acknowledge, the flag has always represented more than just ancestral pride.

For many, black and white, that flag was a reminder of systemic oppression and racial subjugation. Removing the flag from this state's capital would not be an act of political correctness. It would not an insult to the valour of Confederate soldiers. It would simply be acknowledgement that the cause for which they fought, the cause of slavery, was wrong. The imposition of Jim Crow after the Civil War, the resistance to civil rights for all people was wrong. It would be one step in an honest accounting of America's history, a modest but meaningful balm for so many unhealed wounds."

The Governor Haley referenced above is a GOP governor. Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley who directed that four Confederate flags be taken down from a Confederate memorial at the state capitol is a GOP governor. I see that bipartisan leaders in Tennessee are also reviewing their state flag and looking to remove a bust of Nathan Bedford Forrest, the former Confederate general and Ku Klux Klan leader, which sits outside the state Senate chamber. This issue isn't about democrats vs. republicans. It's about right vs. wrong, It's also a generational issue. Younger people are more appreciative of the pain the Confederate flag causes for some. Some older people who lived in a time of privilege don't want to let go.

Those claiming state rights as a justification to fly the flag are using the issue of state rights as a convenient cover to express their prejudice against afro Americans. The Confederate flag was the flag of people who took up arms against the lawful government of the USA, whether it was in the civil war, or as a rallying flag when lynching blacks, or when having a KKK march or this;

The confederate flag does not belong on government property, property which should be free of hate, bigotry and intimidation. The fact that the US federal government allowed confederate soldiers to be buried in areas proximate to the defenders of the union who were killed by the rebels speaks to the compassion of the Union, and was an attempt to heal wounds caused by the civil war. It was not and has never been an endorsement of the evil that characterized the confederacy.

The Republican governors who have stood up for decency and finally done the right thing deserve praise.

[sdanielmcev]

It really doesn't matter what this flag originally stood for, the perception of what it stands for today is what matters.

Seems like it now stands for something offensive to a large chunk of society, so, it shouldn't be endorsed by the US government any more and be taken down.

Because then the bad guys win if we give in to their evil. And that includes those that revise history for their political purposes.

[Publicus]

It's 2015 and the Charleston church massacre and Barack Obama is POTUS yet a number of people are having a great difficulty in keeping up.

In fact they're not even trying to keep up.

They're trying to go back in time and circumstances to apply then and them to us, here and now.

Reactionaries through and through.

Suffering also from some kind of flag separation psychosis.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The Republican party wants the Confederate flag issue defragmented, done, defanged so it doesn't explode their upcoming debates or their presidential election campaign because the Republicans can only lose on it, especially given the hysteria emanating from the dozen and more candidates who are practically cursing critics and opponents of the flag.

The gaggle of candidates have already formed another 2012 circular firing squad and the Confederate flag issue in their debates would be the ammunition for them all to open fire on one another in trying to outdo each other defending the Confederate flag. That would of course lead to having to speak about slavery, cession, state's rights, state sovereignty yadda yadda yadda.

The SCOTUS marriage decision, the SCOTUS ruling on the ACA and the flag issue would be a hat trick against the GOP, the Gone Old Party. Trump might end up firing 'em all and seize power in the party by buying it.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Publicus

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts and replies removed.

[Merzik]

Are we really re-fighting the American Civil War on a Thailand specific site?

Sometimes i have to sit back and look at us all .. me included .. and laugh.

Came half way around the world to argue about the Civil War.

Amazing.

Who started the crusade against the flag and brought this issue up? I'll give you a hint; it wasn't conservatives. We may live in Thailand but our home and citizenship is not here. What happens back home affects us all. Edited June 27, 2015 by Merzik

[lifeincnx]

This was a great week for the USA with two, count `em two, right-headed important SCOTUS rulings.

[Chicog]

This was a great week for the USA with two, count `em two, right-headed important SCOTUS rulings.

A quick check on the polls this week:

57% of Americans supported the gay marriage ruling, no real surprise there.

But on Obamacare:

25% think it needs eliminating

25% think it needs a major overhaul

40% think it needs minor modifications

8% think it is fine the way it is.

That first number is a lot lower that I thought it would be. It will be interesting to see how the Republicans decide to approach it as a campaign issue.

[Usernames]

Apple has banned the sale of items with the Confederate flag in historical games. The very definition of lunatic frenzy. http://toucharcade.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-confederate-flag/

[CMNightRider]

After the Civil War ended, President Lincoln appeared in the nation’s capital with one simple request. He requested the military band to play “Dixie,” the unofficial anthem of the Confederacy.

​It's hard to understand the liberal thought process behind immediately attacking a flag, rich with our nation's history, in the wake of a tragic shooting that left nine people dead in South Carolina.

Instead of banning flags and guns, why isn't Obama addressing mental health issues that cause people to comment such heinous crimes?

Obama claimed Abraham Lincoln is one of his favourite presidents. If he were to emulate him, this country would be in better shape.

Edited June 27, 2015 by CMNightRider

[lostoday]

My family had one brother on the Northern side and one on the Southern side. I can't ever remember seeing a Confederate flag at home. The kids in the family now know a great great ...... grand daddy fought in the Civil war but they don't know who fought on which side. I never flew a Confederate flag. I stand up when Dixie is played and the Battle hymn of the Republic. I also stand up when they play any Elvis Presley song.

[Merzik]

After the Civil War ended, President Lincoln appeared in the nations capital with one simple request. He requested the military band to play Dixie, the unofficial anthem of the Confederacy.

​It's hard to understand the liberal thought process behind immediately attacking a flag, rich with our nation's history, in the wake of a tragic shooting that left nine people dead in South Carolina.

Instead of banning flags and guns, why isn't Obama addressing mental health issues that cause people to comment such heinous crimes?

Obama claimed Abraham Lincoln is one of his favourite presidents. If he were to emulate him, this country would be in better shape.

Had Lincolon not been murdered; the very harsh Reconstruction period of the post war would not have taken place. It was this revengeful and harsh treatment of Southerners which led to the birth of the KKK as disenfranchiled whites fought back. This was much like how the Treaty of Versailles after WW I led to the rise of Nazism in Germany.

[NickJ]

Civil War fought over Slavery....

WW1 The War to End All Wars....

The History is out there if you drunk liberal clucks would care to read it....

[NickJ]

And Liberia was for what?

Lincolns plans?

The Senate voted to approve the amendment to end slavery thinking they would end the war...Lincoln was able to hold off the Southern surrender till after the vote......Had the war ended and then the vote slavery would not have been abolished.

less then 2% of southerners owned slaves.

Google the end of slavery for Illionois.

Edited June 27, 2015 by NickJ

[Publicus]

The desperate right needs to recognize and admit the fact the Confederate Battle Flag was taken out of mothballs in the 1950s into the 1960s by states of the Old Confederacy as their pronounced statement of their direct and forceful opposition to the Black Civil Right Movement.

Things Confederate signal a devotion to slavery and other forms of human bondage, to include racism.

The right and other Republicans need to acknowledge reality.

[lostoday]

Civil War fought over Slavery....

WW1 The War to End All Wars....

The History is out there if you drunk liberal clucks would care to read it....

A common assumption to explain the cause of the American Civil War was that the North was no longer willing to tolerate slavery as being part of the fabric of US society and that the political power brokers in Washington were planning to abolish slavery throughout the Union. Therefore for many people slavery is the key issue to explain the causes of the American Civil War. However, it is not as simple as this and slavery, while a major issue, was not the only issue that pushed American into the ‘Great American Tragedy.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/the-american-civil-war/causes-of-the-american-civil-war/

Do you really think many people in the North in 1860 cared for the plight of Southern Blacks? Ya right on that.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[sgtsabai]

Ah, Elvis in his prime. What a great voice, please note the ending of the trilogy, and from a southerner. He also did some great gospel songs. Look, no matter what, good thinking people are not going to change the right wingnuts' view on this. Their heads would explode if they even entertained the truth or facts. Hey, Obama can even sing, well not great, but pretty good. Oh my did the baptist preacher voice come out in that eulogy. Look when even most of the gang of 5 support what some of you would call a liberal view, it is in reality just humanity, you have another lost cause on your soul, if you have one. When Republican southern governors are saying time to take the flag down, you have lost, GOOD. Fly it, display it, bumper sticker it, patch it, great, human beings will know you for what you are.

[geriatrickid]

After the Civil War ended, President Lincoln appeared in the nation’s capital with one simple request. He requested the military band to play “Dixie,” the unofficial anthem of the Confederacy.

​It's hard to understand the liberal thought process behind immediately attacking a flag, rich with our nation's history, in the wake of a tragic shooting that left nine people dead in South Carolina.

Instead of banning flags and guns, why isn't Obama addressing mental health issues that cause people to comment such heinous crimes?

Obama claimed Abraham Lincoln is one of his favourite presidents. If he were to emulate him, this country would be in better shape.

The use of Dixie by Lincoln needs to be put in its appropriate historical context. Performers were still appearing in Black Face on US TV shows including the Ed Sullivan show until the late 1950's. In the UK, Black Face minstrel shows were going strong until the 1970's. The argument given at the time was that they were harmless fun. People today recoil at such activity. One cannot look back and use past activities as a justification for practices today. In the 1960's it was still acceptable to smoke in hospitals. Today, it is unacceptable behaviour.

I posted the President's statement on the flag. Please read it again. He spoke for the majority of Americans from all political parties. This isn't an issue of left vs. right or liberal vs. conservative. It is about understanding the difference between right and wrong. Yours is the view that denied jews and afro americans the military decorations earned in service for the nation. Need a reminder?

WASHINGTON — Two World War I Army heroes — one black, one Jewish — are finally getting the Medal of Honor they may have been denied because of discrimination, nearly 100 years after bravely rescuing comrades on the battlefields of France. Sgt. William Shemin repeatedly dodged gunfire to pull wounded comrades to safety during three days of bloody battle. And Pvt. Henry Johnson rescued a wounded comrade from his all-black regiment while single-handedly fighting off a surprise German attack.

The denial of their honor was the result of a culture and time when membership in the KKK was considered acceptable, when it was ok to have whites only facilities and when it was ok not to hire jews or to sell them a home because they were jews. Times changed. People grew. The flag debate is about growing and moving on.

Eisenhower was a Republican. He introduced civil rights legislation in 1957. The Civil Rights Act of 1957, the first civil rights legislation since Reconstruction. The new act established the Civil Rights Section of the Justice Department and empowered federal prosecutors to obtain court injunctions against interference with the right to vote. It also established a federal Civil Rights Commission with authority to investigate discriminatory conditions and recommend corrective measures. The final act was weakened by Congress due to lack of support among the Democrats.

The Dixiecrats held the Democrat party back. They still had hatred for the Republicans because it was the GOP led government which had defeated the Confederacy. Times change. Once those Dixiecrats went to the GOP, politics changed.

In respect to mental health, there is not much one can do to prevent mass killings if the mentally ill have unfettered access to firearms. Dylaan Roof may be mentally ill, but how do you propose greater access to mental health care would have helped? Was he likely to seek help? Was someone likely to force him to get help I doubt it. You are not a supporter of the Affordable Care Act are you? You are also a supporter of state rights, the same rights being used to justify a state using the confederate flag. The provision of medical care and its standards at the local level is a state mandate, but you want the feds to intervene in a state issue. You can't have it both ways. How a convicted methamphetamine and LSD use was able to obtain a gun is interesting. Maybe if there was some screening in place, the murderer would not have obtained a firearm. So, uyes, let's distract the issue to how a nutter got a gun, and not concern ourselves with righting an obvious wrong with the flying of a hate symbol on PUBLIC land and paid for by the PUBLIC.