Thousands march in central London to protest austerity

[trogers]

looks like he could do with an austerity program of his own, and cut down on the big mac's and kebabs

send him to greece, he could the feed the natives for a month at least

Go easy on him Sout...he's ''physically challenged''. Obesity is a disease remember-overactive glands and all He probably eats only carrots and lettuce

More like the grown up cousin of Harry Potter...

[samran]

The clowns who stand around selling the 'socialist left' newspaper must have gotten bored.

Clearly the sun was out.

I wonder if they all went for a lentil burger afterwards (except the fat bloke).

[trogers]

Cut all welfare by 30% to start...

When all austerity measures are taken into account, including cuts to public services and changes to taxes and welfare, the poorest tenth of the population are by far the hardest hit, seeing a 38 per cent decrease in their net income over the period 2010 - 15.

https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf

Pensions are welfare benefits, so are you recommending pensioners have their payments cut by 30%? Three per cent of expenditure is accounted for by Jobseekers Allowance, while over 50 per cent is spent on pensioners.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/2013/01/fact-and-fiction-on-welfare-spending

I can't see a single mature adult among the protesters on the news, much less a pensioner. They look like demanding college students who think the world owes them a living. Eventually reality has to catch up with them.

Look at the news. They are punks.

You're looking at different media shots to me...have a look at URL below.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/20/tens-thousands-rally-uk-protest-against-austerity

There have been major cuts to public servant staffing who are also protesting, are they 'punks'?

Over the next five years, around 500,000 more jobs have to go, according to the basic arithmetic of austerity: the Office for Budget Responsibility predicted a total of a million lost jobs over the decade from 2010.

Lost from which sector? Is the civil service overstaffed like in Thailand? Takes 5 to change a ? ?

[NeverSure]

The poorer segment of the UK population have experienced a decrease of 38% of their income in the past five years, yet your carrying on with your right wing propaganda.

Oh, poor babies. Their false faith in a nanny state won't be blamed on the politicians who lied to them. It won't be blamed on the education establishment which brainwashed them into thinking government could actually support people. (Governments can't support people. People have to support governments. That will be $5 please.)

Maybe if the fine but foolish people of the UK hadn't allowed every Muhammad, Hasan, Asif, Chirag, and Aaliyah into the country and onto the welfare system there would be more for those who actually paid taxes.

No?

[samran]

The poorer segment of the UK population have experienced a decrease of 38% of their income in the past five years, yet your carrying on with your right wing propaganda.

Oh, poor babies. Their false faith in a nanny state won't be blamed on the politicians who lied to them. It won't be blamed on the education establishment which brainwashed them into thinking government could actually support people. (Governments can't support people. People have to support governments. That will be $5 please.)

Maybe if the fine but foolish people of the UK hadn't allowed every Muhammad, Hasan, Asif, Chirag, and Aaliyah into the country and onto the welfare system there would be more for those who actually paid taxes.

No?

There is a real issue here of real income.

London to a brick that the share of profit to workers has been flat while those to capital have increased.

Not trying to sound like a socialist here, cause I'm far from one, but if real wages are stagnant for your lowest paid workers, then there are clear issues of how productivity gains are being distributed.

[khunken]

What the right-wingnuts (& Thatcher supporters) 'forget' is that Thatcher's Big Bang created the opportunity for retail banks to gobble up the investment banks and/or create their own investment department which invested in the disastrous Credit Default Swaps & Sub-prime Loan packages.

Who bailed them out - the taxpayer at a huge cost to the whole economy & particularly to those who lost their jobs. "Get a job" being the mantra of those too indoctrinated to understand that there were no jobs.

AS some have pointed out, the students are likely either non-voters or those (63%) who didn't support the Tories.

[NeverSure]

Not trying to sound like a socialist here, cause I'm far from one, but if real wages are stagnant for your lowest paid workers, then there are clear issues of how productivity gains are being distributed.

Productivity gains. I see a loss of productivity. What do all of these people on welfare produce other than babies? When you have one person working and the other sucking up benefits you have a 50% loss in productivity out of the gate. End of. Someone has to pay for it and it will be the working stiff.

Do you want to nail capital with higher wages and more taxes? It will flee to China and Taiwan and Thailand and... The USA. Yep, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW and so many others have built factories in the US because they love giving Americans money they like to make as much money as they can for themselves. They don't own those businesses to make money for other people, much to the surprise of those brainwashed liberals.

As for the cars and computers that are UK brands... Oh wait... There aren't any major UK car brands or computers. They even lost Rolls and Bentley and Jaguar. But... Well...

Tell, me. What does the UK actually make? Is the UK turning into another Thailand or China that provides only cheap labor to build something that was invented somewhere else? Is it a wonder that labor is cheap when there isn't much new wealth being created?

Cheers.

[Ricardo]

"Thousands marched in central London Saturday"

There might have been more, but their trains were delayed/cancelled, and the other five are still waiting for a bus !

[Jay Sata]

Lots of complaints about austerity but there is nothing austere about the way public bodies have wasted money in the past.

Council chief executives on hundreds of thousands a year...money wasted on weird jobs like various outreach officers advertised in the socialist Guardian newspaper.

Gold plated pensions,money wasted on council propoganda newspapers that goes straight in the bin and so the list goes on.

Public servants have wasted money like confetti for years and exploited the public purse.

There is something wrong when they can get a golden handshake worth hundreds of thousand this week and be back in the same job on another council next.

Then of course we have the welfare state scroungers who have never done a days work in their life apart from signing on and producing children like rabbits in between watching they sateliite tv.

I was watching a programme a couple of days ago where the mother of three and husband admitted never having worked because they would need to earn £36,000 a year to have the same standard of living.

Nothing austere about their lifestyle apart from the garden looking like a rubbish dump.

The UK needs to cut out the handout that has resulted in thousands of economic migrants waiting in Calais for their place on the gravy train.

I don't see many of the refugees heading for Romania.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Soutpeel]

The clowns who stand around selling the 'socialist left' newspaper must have gotten bored.

Clearly the sun was out.

I wonder if they all went for a lentil burger afterwards (except the fat bloke).

and when it rained they put their Anoraks on and trimmed each others beards

[hawker9000]

Cut all welfare by 30% to start...

When all austerity measures are taken into account, including cuts to public services and changes to taxes and welfare, the poorest tenth of the population are by far the hardest hit, seeing a 38 per cent decrease in their net income over the period 2010 - 15.

https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf

Pensions are welfare benefits, so are you recommending pensioners have their payments cut by 30%? Three per cent of expenditure is accounted for by Jobseekers Allowance, while over 50 per cent is spent on pensioners.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/2013/01/fact-and-fiction-on-welfare-spending

No! 100% wrong! Pensions are most definitely NOT welfare benefits! Pure ignorance. They are EARNED benefits. Get a clue. Now pensions MAY be excessive (esp if union-negotiated or a political officeholder's perk), and in need of a trimming - no doubt - in which case YES, I'm all for subjecting them to austerity cuts. But they are not in the same category with welfare.

[samran]

Not trying to sound like a socialist here, cause I'm far from one, but if real wages are stagnant for your lowest paid workers, then there are clear issues of how productivity gains are being distributed.

Productivity gains. I see a loss of productivity. What do all of these people on welfare produce other than babies? When you have one person working and the other sucking up benefits you have a 50% loss in productivity out of the gate. End of. Someone has to pay for it and it will be the working stiff.

Do you want to nail capital with higher wages and more taxes? It will flee to China and Taiwan and Thailand and... The USA. Yep, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW and so many others have built factories in the US because they love giving Americans money they like to make as much money as they can for themselves. They don't own those businesses to make money for other people, much to the surprise of those brainwashed liberals.

As for the cars and computers that are UK brands... Oh wait... There aren't any major UK car brands or computers. They even lost Rolls and Bentley and Jaguar. But... Well...

Tell, me. What does the UK actually make? Is the UK turning into another Thailand or China that provides only cheap labor to build something that was invented somewhere else? Is it a wonder that labor is cheap when there isn't much new wealth being created?

Cheers.

Gawd, you try and have a simple economic conversation and you get this diatribe.

Where did I talk about taxes? Or welfare?

The point was made that real wages have gone down 36%. If company profits have gone down 36% then that might be fine.

My guess is they haven't. If workers are helping a company do well, they should be rewarded for it was simply my point.

Edited June 21, 2015 by samran

[Soutpeel]

Not trying to sound like a socialist here, cause I'm far from one, but if real wages are stagnant for your lowest paid workers, then there are clear issues of how productivity gains are being distributed.

Productivity gains. I see a loss of productivity. What do all of these people on welfare produce other than babies? When you have one person working and the other sucking up benefits you have a 50% loss in productivity out of the gate. End of. Someone has to pay for it and it will be the working stiff.

Do you want to nail capital with higher wages and more taxes? It will flee to China and Taiwan and Thailand and... The USA. Yep, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW and so many others have built factories in the US because they love giving Americans money they like to make as much money as they can for themselves. They don't own those businesses to make money for other people, much to the surprise of those brainwashed liberals.

As for the cars and computers that are UK brands... Oh wait... There aren't any major UK car brands or computers. They even lost Rolls and Bentley and Jaguar. But... Well...

Tell, me. What does the UK actually make? Is the UK turning into another Thailand or China that provides only cheap labor to build something that was invented somewhere else? Is it a wonder that labor is cheap when there isn't much new wealth being created?

Cheers.

Gawd, you try and have a simple economic conversation and you get this diatribe.

Where did I talk about taxes? Or welfare?

The point was made that real wages have gone down 36%. If company profits have gone down 36% then that might be fine.

My guess is they haven't. If workers are helping a company do well, they should be rewarded for it was simply my point.

Mate,

there are a few on TV who just cant help themselves, within that diatribe, the purpose was to inject discussion about the US, all I am reading is vile Anti-British rhetoric

the poster is obviously Anti-British

[simple1]

Cut all welfare by 30% to start...

When all austerity measures are taken into account, including cuts to public services and changes to taxes and welfare, the poorest tenth of the population are by far the hardest hit, seeing a 38 per cent decrease in their net income over the period 2010 - 15.

https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf

Pensions are welfare benefits, so are you recommending pensioners have their payments cut by 30%? Three per cent of expenditure is accounted for by Jobseekers Allowance, while over 50 per cent is spent on pensioners.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/2013/01/fact-and-fiction-on-welfare-spending

No! 100% wrong! Pensions are most definitely NOT welfare benefits! Pure ignorance. They are EARNED benefits. Get a clue. Now pensions MAY be excessive (esp if union-negotiated or a political officeholder's perk), and in need of a trimming - no doubt - in which case YES, I'm all for subjecting them to austerity cuts. But they are not in the same category with welfare.

Basic State Pension payments are treated as a component of HMG Social Services expenditure

Basic State Pension (contributory) claimants 12,672,860

Basic State Pension (non-contributory) claimants 34,780

http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn13.pdf

[mizztraveller]

Maybe they see this as a problem? I certainly do.

[Basil B]

"We will not rest until austerity is history, our services are back in public hands and the needs of the majority are put first."

--Didn't these people just lose an election? Massively. So, how are they now the majority?

You think 35 % or so is a majority

No over 60% did not vote TORY

In actual fact if you take into account those who did not vote.

78% did not vote Tory...

Tories 22%, Labour 18%, Others 20% and Did Not Vote 40%

The only thing I am certain about is had Labour won the election back in 2010 the loony left and the unions would have left the UK in a bigger mess than what Greece is in.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Basil B

[MaeJoMTB]

Amazing to me being from The States how liberal

UK benefits are to people that don't contribute at

Least 15% of their earnings to a retirement plan.

In the US employee contributes 7.5% and employer

Contributes 7.5% to fund Social Security, our Federal

Retirement Program. Your benefits are paid to you

Based on # of years worked and amt you paid into

The system. Not welfare like the U K where you

Don't contribute...again, amazing. To collect SS

Benefits you have to work a minimum of 4 years and

Become totally disabled (accident,stroke). Minimum

Monthly benefit, or Full Retirement benefits at age 67,

And have worked at least 15 years prior to retirement.

Every employed person in the UK contributes 20% of their earnings to the state retirement plan.

(10% directly from their wage, 10% from their employer, so 5% more than you do in the USA)

[simple1]

<snip>

Tell, me. What does the UK actually make?

Although it's fair to say UK manufacturing is being impacted by the strength of the £, contrary to common belief, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently the 11th largest manufacturing nation in the world. Manufacturing makes up 11% of UK GVA and 54% of UK exports and directly employs 2.6 million people.

http://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/

Edited June 21, 2015 by simple1

[NeverSure]

Productivity gains. I see a loss of productivity. What do all of these people on welfare produce other than babies? When you have one person working and the other sucking up benefits you have a 50% loss in productivity out of the gate. End of. Someone has to pay for it and it will be the working stiff.

Do you want to nail capital with higher wages and more taxes? It will flee to China and Taiwan and Thailand and... The USA. Yep, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW and so many others have built factories in the US because they love giving Americans money they like to make as much money as they can for themselves. They don't own those businesses to make money for other people, much to the surprise of those brainwashed liberals.

As for the cars and computers that are UK brands... Oh wait... There aren't any major UK car brands or computers. They even lost Rolls and Bentley and Jaguar. But... Well...

Tell, me. What does the UK actually make? Is the UK turning into another Thailand or China that provides only cheap labor to build something that was invented somewhere else? Is it a wonder that labor is cheap when there isn't much new wealth being created?

Cheers.

Gawd, you try and have a simple economic conversation and you get this diatribe.

Where did I talk about taxes? Or welfare?

The point was made that real wages have gone down 36%. If company profits have gone down 36% then that might be fine.

My guess is they haven't. If workers are helping a company do well, they should be rewarded for it was simply my point.

You can't force companies to share their profits unless the market forces induce a shortage of workers and there is competition for them. Even then, the companies may simply move to where labor is cheaper. For proof of what a company will do we all see production moved to Thailand. That was yesterday though because Thailand forced a minimum wage and now it's struggling as investment goes to Vietnam, The Phils... This moving offshore is all around us.

No one was ever promised a great wage for working for the other guy. If people want to advance themselves they have to - advance themselves. There's no great fount of money out there that can just flow to the masses. As a model, communism has never worked. The Soviet Union promised to bring equality but it failed in a big way as the producers moved out or simply quit. If Russia didn't have oil it would really be a disaster zone.

This equality of income thing has never worked anywhere in the world and to the contrary any country that's tried anything else either went broke or kept people in abject poverty. It's OK for people to dream and even demand, but the money won't be their unless they get busy and make it happen for themselves. This has always been true, everywhere. These protesters can't repeal the law of supply and demand for their labor.

[zyphodb]

Take the Nanny out of Nanny State and the bawling starts.

And what do we call all those crooked bankers worldwide who in 2008 got us into this mess from which we are still suffering. Oh yeah leaches.Guess where they got their bailout money from hmm the taxpayer maybe. Guess what said banks have not learned a thing except to keep up and increase their greedy ways and are setting us for yet another big fall and their government buddies are looking the other way. They seem able to live off of the taxpayers teet just fine. None went to jail. They only got richer.The Iron lady only helped the rich as did her dancing partner Romping Ronnie. I understand the Iron Lady towards the end looked in the mirror and saw only a shadow of her former self. Maybe this was Gods punishment for helping to destroy honest hard working men and women. You will never run out of other peoples money as the rich just keep on getting richer by stealing from the rest of us so lets do a Robin Hood. You have just about worn out the Nanny State phrase. You sound like a lonely rich man who cares diddly squat about his fellow man. Get a new speech writer. Put the other one out to pasture.

" And what do we call all those crooked bankers worldwide who in 2008 got us into this mess from which we are still suffering? Oh yeah" TORIES...

[NeverSure]

Complain about banks or Tories if it feels better. It's not the real issue. This is:

You can pass a law telling an employer that if he's going to do business in the UK he has to do certain things about pay and benefits. What you can't do is make him stay in the UK and do it. As a result the government has zero control over what these people are protesting about.

The government also needs austerity. The UK debt to GDP ratio is bumping right up against that of the US. Link The problem is that the UK has nowhere near the economic engine to handle it. The US is wallowing in tech profits, natural resource profits not only oil, manufacturing profits, and the US government owns enough real estate (huge) to pay off the national debt twice.

I don't get the impression that many Europeans know that the UK's debt is about the same as that of the US, proportionately. The US deficits have now shrunk to a small number but the UK's haven't. It's perilous for the UK right now and these protesters are insisting that it spend more and more money.

[Basil B]

" And what do we call all those crooked bankers worldwide who in 2008 got us into this mess from which we are still suffering? Oh yeah" TORIES...

More like Republicans...

The economic crisis did not start in the UK, as for the Bankers this is a worldwide issue, seems to me that the banking industry does need a sort out, but only a few years ago when Cameron tried to cap bonuses... Oh yes, Bank threaten to pull out the UK.

What is really wrong with banks and their management, they are answerable to no one, the majority of shares are owned by investment schemes run by other banks, with the old boy network "I will scratch your back...", the shareholders lose out, the inverters lose out...

The real issue is investment schemes should not have voting rights unless the actual inverters have voting rights not the scheme managers.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Basil B

[MaeJoMTB]

Complain about banks or Tories if it feels better. It's not the real issue. This is:

You can pass a law telling an employer that if he's going to do business in the UK he has to do certain things about pay and benefits. What you can't do is make him stay in the UK and do it. As a result the government has zero control over what these people are protesting about.

The government also needs austerity. The UK debt to GDP ratio is bumping right up against that of the US. Link The problem is that the UK has nowhere near the economic engine to handle it. The US is wallowing in tech profits, natural resource profits not only oil, manufacturing profits, and the US government owns enough real estate (huge) to pay off the national debt twice.

I don't get the impression that many Europeans know that the UK's debt is about the same as that of the US, proportionately. The US deficits have now shrunk to a small number but the UK's haven't. It's perilous for the UK right now and these protesters are insisting that it spend more and more money.

Complete &lt;deleted&gt; from someone who knows nothing about the UK.

If they need to save money, military cuts and cuts to the MPs salary (and number).

Austerity, in the UK, is just a way for the rich to oppress the poor and make the wage slaves work harder.

Very easy to control where a business is based, punitive import tax, work permits, employment restrictions.

It's just the western governments are all owned by the same people, so they don't do it.

Not about can't control, it's about no will to control.

[samran]

Productivity gains. I see a loss of productivity. What do all of these people on welfare produce other than babies? When you have one person working and the other sucking up benefits you have a 50% loss in productivity out of the gate. End of. Someone has to pay for it and it will be the working stiff.

Do you want to nail capital with higher wages and more taxes? It will flee to China and Taiwan and Thailand and... The USA. Yep, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW and so many others have built factories in the US because they love giving Americans money they like to make as much money as they can for themselves. They don't own those businesses to make money for other people, much to the surprise of those brainwashed liberals.

As for the cars and computers that are UK brands... Oh wait... There aren't any major UK car brands or computers. They even lost Rolls and Bentley and Jaguar. But... Well...

Tell, me. What does the UK actually make? Is the UK turning into another Thailand or China that provides only cheap labor to build something that was invented somewhere else? Is it a wonder that labor is cheap when there isn't much new wealth being created?

Cheers.

Gawd, you try and have a simple economic conversation and you get this diatribe.

Where did I talk about taxes? Or welfare?

The point was made that real wages have gone down 36%. If company profits have gone down 36% then that might be fine.

My guess is they haven't. If workers are helping a company do well, they should be rewarded for it was simply my point.

You can't force companies to share their profits unless the market forces induce a shortage of workers and there is competition for them. Even then, the companies may simply move to where labor is cheaper. For proof of what a company will do we all see production moved to Thailand. That was yesterday though because Thailand forced a minimum wage and now it's struggling as investment goes to Vietnam, The Phils... This moving offshore is all around us.

No one was ever promised a great wage for working for the other guy. If people want to advance themselves they have to - advance themselves. There's no great fount of money out there that can just flow to the masses. As a model, communism has never worked. The Soviet Union promised to bring equality but it failed in a big way as the producers moved out or simply quit. If Russia didn't have oil it would really be a disaster zone.

This equality of income thing has never worked anywhere in the world and to the contrary any country that's tried anything else either went broke or kept people in abject poverty. It's OK for people to dream and even demand, but the money won't be their unless they get busy and make it happen for themselves. This has always been true, everywhere. These protesters can't repeal the law of supply and demand for their labor.

70 to 90% of any economy deal in non traded goods and services. Meaning they'll never be offshored.

Your plumber and the guy who served you coffee this morning aren't going to be replaced by a service provider in the Philippines. Markets are more local than we give them credit for.

Equally, running a business it makes good business sense to reward workers who help the bottom line. Doesn't matter if it is the top or the bottom, the principal is the same that if you reward workers properly, and which reflects their contribution they'll help to keep delivering. Not a socialist strand to any of that, where socialism sought to make everyone 'equal'.

All I'm saying is that if you aren't rewarding your workers when you firm is doing well, then you are screwing the long run - they will go somewhere else...

[Thongkorn]

Why do the British Public have to pay for Commercial Banks owned by Share holders. Nobody asked if they could use my taxes, I have never ever been in debit or owed money, i have done as the government wanted, worked my balls off, payed my taxes, I bought my own house put money in the bank , Then i get punished and told that every house hold in the Uk is in debit,

[Enoon]

The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money to spend- The great Margaret Thatch

It was certainly misguided to try and carry through socialist policies, based on taxation, in a fundamentally capitalist state (the UK).

I think it is true to say that in socialist theory (and this is a gross simplification) there is no such thing as "other peoples money".

[gamini]

Take the Nanny out of Nanny State and the bawling starts.

And what do we call all those crooked bankers worldwide who in 2008 got us into this mess from which we are still suffering. Oh yeah leaches.Guess where they got their bailout money from hmm the taxpayer maybe. Guess what said banks have not learned a thing except to keep up and increase their greedy ways and are setting us for yet another big fall and their government buddies are looking the other way. They seem able to live off of the taxpayers teet just fine. None went to jail. They only got richer.The Iron lady only helped the rich as did her dancing partner Romping Ronnie. I understand the Iron Lady towards the end looked in the mirror and saw only a shadow of her former self. Maybe this was Gods punishment for helping to destroy honest hard working men and women. You will never run out of other peoples money as the rich just keep on getting richer by stealing from the rest of us so lets do a Robin Hood. You have just about worn out the Nanny State phrase. You sound like a lonely rich man who cares diddly squat about his fellow man. Get a new speech writer. Put the other one out to pasture.

You are obviously a socialist and the Brits rejected socialism in the last election.

If it had not been for mrs Thatcher the UK would be a third world country

[Ghostnigel]

They look like demanding college students who think the world owes them a living. Eventually reality has to catch up with them.

Look at the news. They are punks.

Demanding farangs, who think Thailand owes them a citizenship/permanent residency

Well at least now we know where some of the farangs here picked their concept of of self entitlement, its all making sense now

You got anything good to say about the human race? You don't like people very much, do you? They are only expressing what they think, fat or thin, they are entitled to an opinion. Please try not to be so harsh on others.

[Basil B]

Why do the British Public have to pay for Commercial Banks owned by Share holders. Nobody asked if they could use my taxes, I have never ever been in debit or owed money, i have done as the government wanted, worked my balls off, payed my taxes, I bought my own house put money in the bank , Then i get punished and told that every house hold in the Uk is in debit,

I am uncertain whether it actually cost the tax payers anything, hopefully shares were/will be sold off at a profit, what annoys me is while the government was the major shareholder they did not sway more control, cut the bonuses and sacked the Fat Cats.

As I understand it the government underwrote bad loans of the banks to stop them going under, and in return the banks had to print more shares diluting the value of their current shares, much of the bad debts has now been recovered and the banks are in a better state so those shares should be worth a lot more.

[attento]

What do you mean, pensions are "welfare"? You mean

When you work you don't pay into your pension? If you

Pay for the benefit it is not welfare.

In The States every working person pays 7.5% of their

Salaey into Social Security . The Employer must match

This and pay 7.5% also. Not at all a Welfare Program

If UK pensions are not paid by the employee and employer,

Than it's welfare and cut it too by 30%... To start.

The UK retirement pension has been likened to a massive Ponzi Scheme. Tax payers don't pay for their own retirement pensions, they pay for the pensions of those already retired. Their own pensions will be paid for by those in work at that future date.