Austere brand of Islam on rise in Europe, stirring concerns

[ggt]

PARIS (AP) — Its imams preach austere piety, its tenets demand strict separation of sexes — and some of its most radical adherents are heeding the call of jihad. Salafism, an Islamic movement based on a literal reading of the Quran, is on the rise in France, Germany and Britain, security officials say, with Salafis sharply increasing their influence in mosques and on the streets.

Soon the US may take away the guns of law abiding citizens...leaving them defenseless against all kinds of aggression...

Jihad...coming soon to a US city near you...you liberals will be wringing your hands as you line up to either voice your allegiance to Islam or loose your heads...

[ggt]

Let us all be honest here...non of us qualify as Islamic scholars...but then it does not take a scholar to see what is going on in every...EVERY...country where Islamic people have immigrated to the predominantly Christian West...settled down and taken root...and decided they wanted to setup Islamic states within Western sovereign countries...

IMHO...Islam is a blood sucking leech on Western society...for the most part they do not assimilate with the people who have been there for generations...and view the locals as living in moral decay...compared to their beloved Islam...(They hide their decadence and proclaim innocence)

Intolerance and severe punishment rule their communities...

Is this what you want for your family and fellow countrymen?

I should hope not!

Ok all you bleeding heart liberals...give me your best shot...with Islamic phobias...bigot...uneducated...and so on!

One day...when it is too late...think back to the time you could have taken a stand against Islamic aggression but chose to play the peacemaker...

Good luck with that! They rule by the sword...and view passive resistance as total weakness...

Edited June 22, 2015 by ggt

[geriatrickid]

Would it surprise you that some Western (Christian) women occasionally have fun in Moslem communities and don't mind chadors at all?

No. Concealment is always a welcome option for those who have low self esteem or who see themselves as old or ugly or fat. It also works for those with deformities or unfortunate malformations. There are times when I am out when I wish some of the women and men were wearing a burka or even a veil.

In some cultures where young women are forced by circumstance to take up with a disgusting old creep of a man, I can certainly understand why the woman would want to conceal her identity when going out.

On the other hand, I have yet to meet a mentally sound educated woman who would voluntarily put a fabric sack on because she enjoyed it.

[Steely Dan]

Based on the not being seen with an ugly or fat old man rationale I'm surprised Pattaya Main Street doesn't resemble Kabul.

[jacky54]

Islam has ALWAYS been austere

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts and replies have been removed. Please stay on topic. The thread is about the brand of Islam in Europe, not about dress codes in Saudi Arabia.

[Naam]

But the progressives (who would be the first to be crushed under Islamic rule) will defend the religion of peace to the very end. Blinded by their own idealism.

Agreed, the groups that refuse to accept the dangers all around them may well find themselves the first to be slaughtered in the name of Allah.

We (the plebs on the street) could see it coming, so why didn't the powers that brought them all here see it coming too. There will be a lot lot more to follow, most with hatred towards us before they even get to Europe...God help everyone left there, they're gonna need it.

lo and behold! the skies will be falling on Chicken Little as well as on the plebs on the street.

[SABloke]

Let us all be honest here...non of us qualify as Islamic scholars...but then it does not take a scholar to see what is going on in every...EVERY...country where Islamic people have immigrated to the predominantly Christian West...settled down and taken root...and decided they wanted to setup Islamic states within Western sovereign countries...

IMHO...Islam is a blood sucking leech on Western society...for the most part they do not assimilate with the people who have been there for generations...and view the locals as living in moral decay...compared to their beloved Islam...(They hide their decadence and proclaim innocence)

Intolerance and severe punishment rule their communities...

Is this what you want for your family and fellow countrymen?

I should hope not!

Ok all you bleeding heart liberals...give me your best shot...with Islamic phobias...bigot...uneducated...and so on!

One day...when it is too late...think back to the time you could have taken a stand against Islamic aggression but chose to play the peacemaker...

Good luck with that! They rule by the sword...and view passive resistance as total weakness...

I've always wondered about the Muslims in Europe etc. I come from Cape Town which has the largest Muslim population in South Africa. Everyone goes to school together, hangs out together and visits each other's homes. Most of my Muslim friends are very religious (try to live as good people...the base lesson of all religion including Islam), go to mosque and fast etc. but they all are very South African and we don't have any calls for Sharia and other BS like people walking around the UK telling women what to wear. What I'm wondering is whether (and this is my conspiracy theory side speaking) a large percentage of the Muslims immigrating to Europe are actually being selected and sponsored by higher ups?

[Steely Dan]

It's not even a well kept secret that a very large number of UK Mosques are controlled by austere brands of Islam (Austere - not exactly Quakers or Amish are they?). That the UK should have a problem with non assimilation and enclaves of a hostile culture is no surprise whatsoever.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/

P.s note that the 6% figure for Mosques controlled by Salafi Wahabbis may be true, but the op is misleading portraying these as the extent of the problem. The Deobandi sect which dominates is itself illiberal to its very core, it constitutes 45% of UK Mosques meaning the 'austere' control over half of the UK Mosques. Little wonder increasing religiosity leads to increasing chances of violence.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Steely Dan

[micmichd]

Maybe it's good to get away from religion sometimes and look at the economic situation first.

Most of these Muslims that fall for hate speech are probably economic underdogs. On the other side, there are 10,000 Muslim millionaires in the UK.

Doesn't the Quran say something about rich Muslims' duty to donate to the poor?

Edited June 23, 2015 by micmichd

[Naam]

Maybe it's good to get away from religion sometimes and look at the economic situation first.

Most of these Muslims that fall for hate speech are probably economic underdogs. On the other side, there are 10,000 Muslim millionaires in the UK.

Doesn't the Quran say something about rich Muslims' duty to donate to the poor?

one of the five "pillars" of Islam is giving alms (zakat commandment). it is usually 2.5% but there are different views "of what". the average well-off Muslim is supposed to donate 2.5% of his net income. some "learned" scholars claim it should be calculated from an individuals net worth. zakat is voluntary for individuals, in Saudi Arabia a mandatory zakat tax of 5% is levied and applied to companies with government contracts.

but in what way does that relate to your question and statement that there are 10k Muslim millionaires in the UK is beyond my grasp.

[micmichd]

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I guess that the followers of Salafism are mostly marginalized people, and maybe their Imams could stop blaming everything on the infidels only. The same could hold true for marginalized White Christians who blame everything on Muslims.

[simple1]

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I guess that the followers of Salafism are mostly marginalized people, and maybe their Imams could stop blaming everything on the infidels only. The same could hold true for marginalized White Christians who blame everything on Muslims.

One of the reasons cited by Islamic extremists for their cause is the corruption of the dictators in M.E. countries. Added to this is the corruption of Imams when managing the alms received by the mosques. No doubt in my mind that the very same Imams who support Salafism are equally corrupt.

[Jay Sata]

If they really want to enjoy austerity then there is plenty of choice to relocate.

Northern Pakistan,Afghanistan,Yemen etc.

Make a start by refusing welfare payments and housing from your hated hosts.

Stop whining and leave us westerners to get on with our decadence.

[Lissos]

Notions of 'brands' of Islam are a falsehood.

Islam 'is' austere, 'is' uncompromising and always intended to conquer the Kuffar.

.....one way or another.

I maintain there are no brands, there is either obedience and adherence or cherry picking.

Currently the narrative is one of the 'wishy washy' ones claiming to be the true flame holders.

Muhammad would see them as well outs, based on his own life deeds and what be encouraged.

Islam is not 'getting' extreme or austere, Jihad is merely rising again after a hard winter.

It was an Arab Spring, but beware the scorching Islamist summer and the wasteland of its Autumn.

[micmichd]

If you were right with your generalisations, then we should have trouble with Muslims in Bangkok and Pattaya all the time. The fact that there are no religious fights between Buddhists and Muslims in these Thai cities proves you're wrong.

[Naam]

Notions of 'brands' of Islam are a falsehood.

Islam 'is' austere, 'is' uncompromising and always intended to conquer the Kuffar.

.....one way or another.

I maintain there are no brands, there is either obedience and adherence or cherry picking.

Currently the narrative is one of the 'wishy washy' ones claiming to be the true flame holders.

Muhammad would see them as well outs, based on his own life deeds and what be encouraged.

Islam is not 'getting' extreme or austere, Jihad is merely rising again after a hard winter.

It was an Arab Spring, but beware the scorching Islamist summer and the wasteland of its Autumn.

would you please be kind enough and translate your posting in a language i master?

[jacky54]

If you were right with your generalisations, then we should have trouble with Muslims in Bangkok and Pattaya all the time. The fact that there are no religious fights between Buddhists and Muslims in these Thai cities proves you're wrong.

He is talking about Islam, not Muslims. Of course not all 1..6 billion are as brainwashed as each other, but that does not change what Islam is all about.

[Jimlove]

If the governments do not change their stance toward islam in Europe, I do no give 10 years before seeing the first clashes.

Europe will end as Yugoslavia with people slaughtering each other in the streets - muslims only understand one thing : The Cane ...

[NeverSure]

This kind of generalization can easily end up in a Civil War.

I want some popcorn to eat while watching this European civil war where all that the citizens have is Popsicle sticks to hit someone with. The bad guys are going to run amok among the population. Just wait until they get enough people because they don't obey laws or lament the deaths of anyone.

[thaibeachlovers]

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Allow unlimited immigration of an alien culture into your society and what do you get?

The European governments have learned nothing, now that they are actually sending boats to rescue the Muslim economic refugees from the shores of Libya, and taking them to Europe instead of returning them to Libya.

The west owes those illegal economic migrants nothing.

Edited June 25, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[Neurath]

Muslims aim is total control. And they will do this merely by having more children! Europe beware.

It's too late. That horse is already out of the barn. The liberals in Europe with their PC notions and inclusiveness have already destroyed the area and it's just a matter of time now. Either the pro-inclusiveness people can't see it or they actually want it. It's rushing to the cliff and it will be interesting to see the answer.

Time to break Brievik out of prison and have him give your sermons. He predicted it would happen.

[boomerangutang]

Muslims aim is total control. And they will do this merely by having more children! Europe beware.

I agree, but not with the word 'merely.' Having more children (and bringing truckloads of their relatives from dune countries they came from) is one of many tactics for taking over. They've got a lot more tricks (and bombs) up their sleeves - toward their goal of eventurally forcing Sharia upon everyone. British authorites reluctantly agreed to allow radicals to have their own archaic sets of rules/laws for their communities. Big mistake. Brit and other Europeans should make it crystal clear: "You wanna reside in our country, you adhere to our laws. You don't make your own sets of laws."

If the governments do not change their stance toward islam in Europe, I do no give 10 years before seeing the first clashes.

How do you define 'clashes.' There have already been clashes, if you ask me. Paris' Charlie Hebko, Madrid's train bombing, London's Train bombing. Death threats against a Dutch activitist, ....and that's just a very partial list. If you mean large clashes, like hundreds of people squared off against each other - ok, we agree, it's inevitable. Though Muslim fanatics are adept at hiding in the shadows, slinking away - and even dressing as females to avoid direct confrontation. There won't be pitched battles, but in their insidious ways, Muslim fanatics will keep making inroads toward control in Europe.

[samuibeachcomber]

The only government trying to push back the tide is australia,however they do have the luxury of distance.

Europe is a major problem because of its closeness to africa and the middle east.But a bigger problem is getting 28 member states to agree on some action.By the time a decision is reached it will be too late.30 years too late.

[Jay Sata]

Australia's distance has nothing to do with their success in controlling the problem.

It is their attitude in not allowing them to stay if they land or interception at sea.

They are deported or settled outside Australia.

If we did the same by deporting them to settle in the Falklands if they did not want to return home the flood would

slow to a trickle.

As it is Europe is now faced with a problem of some of the more extreme followers of this religion wanting to take us back to the Middle Ages.

Europe needs someone strong to sort this problem.

I don't see them flocking to Russia.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed. Please stay on topic and cease with the personal remarks directed at other members.

[Robby nz]

A little off topic but just been reading : http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/the-secret-world-of-isis-brides-u-dnt-hav-2-pay-4-anything-if-u-r-wife-of-a-martyr/ar-AAc3UcD?ocid=ASUDHP

Worth a read of that article and all the links from it to give an insight into why young women in particular go to join IS.

[NickJ]

I dont think letting Brievik out of prison is the solution. He didnt really kill muslims.

What I see is that more and more regular people are starting to turn towards hating anything Islamic or anybody muslim.....There very well could be a tipping point for the West. A time when anyone who rejects islam isnt labeled a racist.....Things are going to get a lot worse.

[boomerangutang]

Australia's distance has nothing to do with their success in controlling the problem.

It is their attitude in not allowing them to stay if they land or interception at sea.

They are deported or settled outside Australia.

If we did the same by deporting them to settle in the Falklands if they did not want to return home the flood would

slow to a trickle.

As it is Europe is now faced with a problem of some of the more extreme followers of this religion wanting to take us back to the Middle Ages.

Europe needs someone strong to sort this problem.

I don't see them flocking to Russia.

They would go to the Falklands if given the option, for 3 basic reasons:

>>> they'd get away from their home country, which is more miserable in every way but cold.

>>> they'd be given welfare and places to reside

>>> They could easily dominate the populace at the Falklands, because of their (muslim extremists') agressive belief system.

[micmichd]

So, you would like to deport Muslims from UK to Falkland Islands?

All Muslims? Also the 10,000 Muslim millionaires currently living in UK?

You make a big mistake.

Muslims are not only Muslims, they usually have roots in a foreign country. Many have forgotten about this, and some Imams take advantage of this by providing them a religious-only identity.

Why don't you find out where they (their parents, grandparents, etc) actually came from?

You might find out that many came from Pakistan (incl. today's Bangladesh). Find out how Pakistanis are treated in some Arab countries. Then, why should Moslems with Pakistani roots follow Arabian Imams?