How Thailand Perceives the Massive Influx of Digital Nomads

[pinkpanther99]

An interesting video on those digital nomads, well worth a watch

[pigeonjake]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

[pinkpanther99]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

Yes, probably.

I hate the term 'digital nomad'. It's just a hipster term for someone who basically works freelance. The world has always had self employed freelance workers, the concept is nothing new.

I met a guy once who described himself as a digital nomad. When I asked what exactly he did, he replied "I create digital strategies for startups and SME's". In my ignorance , to this day I am still no wiser as to what that guy's job actually involved. He also seemed to just spend his entire life working out of the room of his guesthouse in Chiang Mai, whilst bragging how he can live in Thailand on $500 per month, basically living off 30 Baht pad Thai. It seemed pretty horrific existence to me.

Then there are issues with visas for these guys in Thailand. I could be wrong, but I reckon most digital nomads in Thailand are working on ED or tourist visas, which is against the law, it's just that the authorities here aren't clued up enough yet to work this out and/or don't have the resources to tackle the problem.

Digital Nomads often speak of living outside the system, as it were. But i reckon that most of them, especially in Thailand, are actually victims of/ under the thumb of the system as they can't get proper visas so are forced to live here illegally or have to take part in regular visa runs or out/in border hops - there's not much freedom about that - whilst it perhaps also being in the back of their minds that immigration and the labour dept could come knocking on their door at any moment.

These guys are also on a massive tax swindle as they seem to think that their western passport gives them some kind of right to exploit the locals laws, visa and taxation requirements of many SE Asian, developing countries.

[Soutpeel]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

Naah Jake, you an offshore pig farmer

[robblok]

Most digital nomads can work here without fear of the government unless they brag. If they are good they can make quite a bit of money. I know quite a few of them and their only problem is indeed visa's. Of course many would set up a company in a heart beat if they could get a visa then but the 4 Thais to a foreigner is just too much for most of them because their business is based on their knowledge and input.

Most people against digital nomads are old farts who don't like the young guys having money and having it easier with the girls.

[robblok]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

Naah Jake, you an offshore pig farmer

Just as illegal as a digital nomad and so are many others who work here without the correct visa.

[Soutpeel]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

Naah Jake, you an offshore pig farmer

Just as illegal as a digital nomad and so are many others who work here without the correct visa.

Jake doesn't work here, Jake has a proper job outside of Thailand and his pig farming is a hobby and there is nothing illegal about having a hobby or keeping pets

even if you do eat them on occasion for breakfast

1. Jake earns his living to support his life style in Thailand by working a job outside Thailand and one presumes he pays his tax outside Thailand

2. I understand Jake is married and has a visa/extension which reflects this

3. Jake has a hobby of raising pigs from which he makes sausage and other piggy products for his own consumption

So tell me again about someone working here without a correct visa ?...hope your post isn't a precursor to launching headlong into another Anti-British diatribe

Edited June 23, 2015 by Soutpeel

[robblok]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

Naah Jake, you an offshore pig farmer

Just as illegal as a digital nomad and so are many others who work here without the correct visa.

Jake doesn't work here, Jake has a proper job outside of Thailand and his pig farming is a hobby and there is nothing illegal about having a hobby or keeping pets

even if you do eat them on occasion for breakfast

1. Jake earns his living to support his life style in Thailand working a job outside Thailand and one presumes he pays his tax outside Thailand

2. I understand Jake is married and has a visa/extension which reflects this

3. Jake has a hobby of raising pigs from which he makes sausage and other piggy products for his own consumption

So tell me again about someone working here without a correct visa ?...hope your post isn't a precursor to launching headlong into another Anti-British diatribe

Mate farming is on the list of things foreigners can't do if you sell the stuff off its not a hobby. If you only eat it yourself then it is a hobby. I could not care less what Jake does.. live and let live is my motto on these kind of things. But fact remains many people here are in the grey or black area.

From digital nomads to anti British good luck with that, seems Brits don't like any form of criticism and it huts them so badly they have to bring it up even when there is not even a hint of anything against Brits.

[pigeonjake]

the website,

well thats just about 2 guest rooms my wife has had built for paying guests if they want to come and stay on a working farm,

but i must admit ive had good fun doing the website, im no web builder and it will show on the site, but ive enjoyed putting it together,

souty,

i havnt been to work since march, i did a 3 month stint in angola, bloody nightmare, so im having a rest, sod the work

[Naam]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

Naah Jake, you an offshore pig farmer

Just as illegal as a digital nomad and so are many others who work here without the correct visa.

Jake doesn't work here, Jake has a proper job outside of Thailand and his pig farming is a hobby and there is nothing illegal about having a hobby or keeping pets

even if you do eat them on occasion for breakfast

1. Jake earns his living to support his life style in Thailand by working a job outside Thailand and one presumes he pays his tax outside Thailand

2. I understand Jake is married and has a visa/extension which reflects this

3. Jake has a hobby of raising pigs from which he makes sausage and other piggy products for his own consumption

So tell me again about someone working here without a correct visa ?...hope your post isn't a precursor to launching headlong into another Anti-British diatribe

not to forget that Jake cares a flying fàrt when he reads some irrelevant bitching of a wannabe weightlifter who's main concern in life seems to be counting the daily intake of protein and carbohydrates to the third percentage decimal digit.

GO JAKE GO!

[sfokevin]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

Edited June 23, 2015 by sfokevin

[Soutpeel]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

I once suggested the 4 employee thing could be done away with, but they would have to register THB 1.0 million Ltd company

pay 25% withholding tax, accountants/auditng fees, WP fee's and hold medical insurance and was shouted down as this would be "unfair" and some even stamped their little feet

I suspect most actually think they should be given a "DM" visa for free..

[pinkpanther99]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

Agreed. Thailand should offer something like this.

[Soutpeel]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

Agreed. Thailand should offer something like this.

Yes but surely, seeing as they are working in Thailand they should fall under the standard income tax laws, like other people employed ? I mean the top PAYE tax rate is 35%, so of the opinion 5% is way too low, prevailing PAYE rates or a withholding tax or provision tax of around 25% ?

[robblok]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

[robblok]

not to forget that Jake cares a flying fàrt when he reads some irrelevant bitching of a wannabe weightlifter who's main concern in life seems to be counting the daily intake of protein and carbohydrates to the third percentage decimal digit.

GO JAKE GO!

Just as I could not care less about what Jake does. That is Jake his business not mine. I have absolutely no problems with Jake, or whatever he does. As for my hobbies your off mark, a third percentage decimal digit is just not enough.

[robblok]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

Agreed. Thailand should offer something like this.

Yes but surely, seeing as they are working in Thailand they should fall under the standard income tax laws, like other people employed ? I mean the top PAYE tax rate is 35%, so of the opinion 5% is way too low, prevailing PAYE rates or a withholding tax or provision tax of around 25% ?

5% is really low and most people would love it for sure. Just the normal income tax that is here with it deductibles seems far fairer (more expensive too)

[CharlieH]

Posts removed.

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[Soutpeel]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

seems to me you don't either

In some countries, if you only paid 5% Tax in one country, and in your own country the same money would have attracted say 25%, then you own country can claim the 20% off you.

Further if in certain countries, if the source of the money is your own country, then you are taxed at source, you cant claim against any double taxation agreement, however chances are they would not tax you in Thailand on the same money

you explanation is rather simplistic and tax laws are a lot more complicated than that and can in include residency/Non residency for tax purposes, Source of Income, where a registered company is located etc

[Franky Bear]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

Why should they have a different visa to other professions?

[rwdrwdrwd]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

seems to me you don't either

In some countries, if you only paid 5% Tax in one country, and in your own country the same money would have attracted say 25%, then you own country can claim the 20% off you.

Further if in certain countries, if the source of the money is your own country, then you are taxed at source, you cant claim against any double taxation agreement, however chances are they would not tax you in Thailand on the same money

you explanation is rather simplistic and tax laws are a lot more complicated than that and can in include residency/Non residency for tax purposes, Source of Income, where a registered company is located etc

The 'proof of registering with home country' is also simplistic - there is no requirement at all in many countries that a non resident citizen registers offshore income or businesses with them, nor is there any mechanism to do so. A UK non resident freelancer that operates via company in Hong Kong can't be 'registered' with the UK, nor are they required to operate via a UK co.

Tax on minimum 50k a month sounds fair to me. Perhaps higher to offset no requirement for thaico or employees. I agree with your comment re 5% being too low, but 25% flat rate is too high - as with traditional roles should use a sliding scale with a tax free limit then incrementing up.

Health insurance shouldn't be limited to a Thai co - just should be provable. Though unless this applies to traditional expats as well it isn't fair - it's not like DNs are going to get free treatment if they don't have it.

Thai drivers licence is completely random and unrelated.

Edited June 23, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[DrDave]

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

seems to me you don't either

In some countries, if you only paid 5% Tax in one country, and in your own country the same money would have attracted say 25%, then you own country can claim the 20% off you.

Further if in certain countries, if the source of the money is your own country, then you are taxed at source, you cant claim against any double taxation agreement, however chances are they would not tax you in Thailand on the same money

you explanation is rather simplistic and tax laws are a lot more complicated than that and can in include residency/Non residency for tax purposes, Source of Income, where a registered company is located etc

Absolutely correct! Your home country may (or may not) have a tax treaty with Thailand, and the rules can be quite complicated and very different across all of those treaties.

As an aside to the "racist" discussion - you all realize that "British" is not a race, don't you? Neither is Canadian, American, German, Mexican, Thai, Chinese, etc. These are nationalities. You'll need to find some other term for calling out people who bash certain nationalities.

[Soutpeel]

but 25% flat rate is too high - as with traditional roles should use a sliding scale with a tax free limit then incrementing up.

Health insurance shouldn't be limited to a Thai co - just should be provable.

Thai drivers licence is completely random.

That would fine on the understanding the top tax rate in Thailand is 35% some people have to pay, and that threshold with very few deductions is only USD 125k/yr

to me 25% is spot on for a provisional or withholding tax...

[seancbk]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

What would they need a Thai driver licence for? Or any driving licence for that matter?

[robblok]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

seems to me you don't either

In some countries, if you only paid 5% Tax in one country, and in your own country the same money would have attracted say 25%, then you own country can claim the 20% off you.

Further if in certain countries, if the source of the money is your own country, then you are taxed at source, you cant claim against any double taxation agreement, however chances are they would not tax you in Thailand on the same money

you explanation is rather simplistic and tax laws are a lot more complicated than that and can in include residency/Non residency for tax purposes, Source of Income, where a registered company is located etc

Your right my explanation was simple and it has many exceptions.

However if you reside in Thailand and make your money here you should be taxed in Thailand. If you have for instance a company in your home country it would pay salary to you (depending on what kind of company) and you would have to pay tax here.

At least those are some of the laws where I come from. Your right with the resident non resident.

If i had a normal company (not sure about the english word) it would not even be possible to have it exist if I am a resident in Thailand.

Only a limited would do as that has its own registration place.

Hard to explain tax laws but it isnt all that simple.

[Soutpeel]

As an aside to the "racist" discussion - you all realize that "British" is not a race, don't you? Neither is Canadian, American, German, Mexican, Thai, Chinese, etc. These are nationalities. You'll need to find some other term for calling out people who bash certain nationalities.

who rattled your cage Tonto ?

[robblok]

As an aside to the "racist" discussion - you all realize that "British" is not a race, don't you? Neither is Canadian, American, German, Mexican, Thai, Chinese, etc. These are nationalities. You'll need to find some other term for calling out people who bash certain nationalities.

who rattled your cage Tonto ?

not me

[Soutpeel]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

Why should they have a different visa to other professions?

they shouldn't contrary to what they believe they are doing, they are working in Thailand, and should be under similar rules as everyone else

Fact is all this DM visa thing is just a pie in the sky dream, Thailand, I suspect would never allow something like this with without a legitimised Thai entity, full income tax, WP etc,

The dreams of some "professional" walking in with a lap top under his arm, claiming he is a DM and getting a long term visa, are exactly that...a wet dream, will not happen

[dotpoom]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

" basically living off 30 Baht pad Thai. It seemed pretty horrific existence to me."

.

Pad Thai is lovely....it doesn't get any better.

[timmyp]

At the end of the vid, he talks about "some of the image that has been built over the years," which is exactly what this video helps to perpetuate.

It's pretty silly that they just gave examples of people not paying taxes, sexpats, and ED visa abuse.

I'm sure the numbers of digital nomads supporting the sex industry pales in comparison to English teachers and other professions. Of course, that's just a guess based on hearsay, just like this video which didn't provide any statistics, only a poorly made ad for digital nomads aimed at the lowest-common denominator.

Certainly, people coming to Thailand and abusing the ED visa to study Thai language is a problem. But the problem is the schools and the immigration office, which allow people to do this. I would love for that problem to be taken care of, because it makes it difficult for people who want to legitimately study Thai. These so-called digital nomads are likely an insignificant number of the people abusing the ED visa (but again, this is hearsay, I have no statistics, and neither does this video).

The video is just xenophobic, but it if spurs changes that allow digital nomads to pay taxes and stay in Thailand legitimately, then wonderful.