Has Obama's China strategy failed?

[webfact]

Has Obama's China Strategy Failed?
Ahead of a key summit, U.S. policy in Asia appears to be adrift.
MATT SCHIAVENZA

WASHINGTON: -- China and the United States are a bit like squabbling family members: Whatever their differences, they still find a way to get together. These regular gatherings are generally a promising sign for the future of U.S.-Chinese relations, even if the summits themselves often achieve little of substance.

On Tuesday, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of the Treasury Jacob Lew will carry on this tradition, meeting with their Chinese counterparts Wang Yang and Yang Jiechi in the seventh Strategic and Economic Dialogue in Washington, D.C. The two-day gathering comes shortly after revelations that Chinese hackers pulled off a massive breach of U.S. government files, gaining access to sensitive information including the Social Security numbers of government personnel. The Chinese government claims it didn’t orchestrate the cyberattack, though it has long accused the United States of staging similar attacks on Chinese infrastructure. The official denial has done little to tamp down mutual suspicion in the Sino-American relationship.

Overall, U.S.-China ties are currently stable, a point reiterated by Chinese President Xi Jinping after Kerry’s visit to China in May. But the U.S. government’s long-term strategy on China appears to be adrift. Over the last two decades, America’s China policy has consisted of two major goals: integrating the Communist Party-ruled country into the U.S.-led global economic order, and maintaining American hegemony in the western Pacific Ocean. Both goals now seem to have stalled.

Full story: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/obama-china-policy/396476/

-- The Atlantic 2015-06-23

[RustBucket]

I love the way the USA constantly accuse other nations of 'definitely' committing offences with absolutely zero proof.

The Chinese hacked us.

The Russians shot down MH17

Al Queda was responsible for 9/11

Iraq has weapons of mass destruction

They are in no position to finger wag. The world are cheesed off with them now. They won't last long.

[Credo]

Even if the world is cheesed off at China, I think they will last quite a while.

[terry Meltham]

Not all the world are cheesed off with China

[JakeSully]

Even if the world is cheesed off at China, I think they will last quite a while.

Atleast until they figure out how to refill their aquifers and stop land subsidence.

China is projected to run out of drinkable water in 20 years and since the aquifers are empty, the land is subsiding and more vulnerable to flooding. Where would the population migrate to?

[oneday]

Has Obama's China Strategy Failed?

What strategy?

Please remind me again, Mr. Obama says to his Secretary of State, what is foreign affairs about?

[MaxYakov]

Even if the world is cheesed off at China, I think they will last quite a while.

Atleast until they figure out how to refill their aquifers and stop land subsidence.

China is projected to run out of drinkable water in 20 years and since the aquifers are empty, the land is subsiding and more vulnerable to flooding. Where would the population migrate to?

Well, there are those islands they're creating in the South China Sea.

We'd better hope they don't decide on Thailand!

[hawker9000]

I love the way the USA constantly accuse other nations of 'definitely' committing offences with absolutely zero proof.

The Chinese hacked us.

The Russians shot down MH17

Al Queda was responsible for 9/11

Iraq has weapons of mass destruction

They are in no position to finger wag. The world are cheesed off with them now. They won't last long.

Last years comedy awards were pretty hotly contested. Good to see the America-haters taking an early lead in the "laughable loonies" category this year. A good yuk is always appreciated! Two thumbs-up!!

[maidee]

why is so much crap produced in China ? even Big Pharma overpriced chemical junk called medicines sold at a premium to the sick american people

[LawrenceChee]

why is so much crap produced in China ? even Big Pharma overpriced chemical junk called medicines sold at a premium to the sick american people

Pay more then and don't be a cheapskate ...they make iPhones too ...not everything is cheapskate it really depends on the purchase department or what you are willing to pay

From my last price check , it's stores like Target and Walmart that continue to order this crap and forcing the Chinese workers into deplorable work condition by paying cheap prices for the orders

[ggt]

Compared to Yemen...a failed state under siege and war...proclaimed by Obama himself to be the best example of Obama's foreign policy...US war drums and posturing against China is child's play...at the moment...

Most folks in the US hope that the world will not dissolve into world war III during the remaining months of the POTUS administration...

We do not need anymore legacy achievements to pad his resume...such as acting like a pouting child when negotiating with Russia...acting like a defeated foe when negotiating with Iran...trading five hardened ME terrorists for a lone military deserter...and calling ISIS the JV team that does not warrant the US's full attention...

China is flexing it's muscle...because they sees the US is lacking in decisive leadership at the moment...

You can not make this stuff up!

[sdanielmcev]

Yes

[Srikcir]

Compared to Yemen...a failed state under siege and war...proclaimed by Obama himself to be the best example of Obama's foreign policy...US war drums and posturing against China is child's play...at the moment...

Most folks in the US hope that the world will not dissolve into world war III during the remaining months of the POTUS administration...

We do not need anymore legacy achievements to pad his resume...such as acting like a pouting child when negotiating with Russia...acting like a defeated foe when negotiating with Iran...trading five hardened ME terrorists for a lone military deserter...and calling ISIS the JV team that does not warrant the US's full attention...

China is flexing it's muscle...because they sees the US is lacking in decisive leadership at the moment...

You can not make this stuff up!

China is more likely flexing it's muscle because it sees REGIONAL weakness in national leadership. Should South Korea and Japan ever decide to become more aggressive on territorial claims, ie., letting loose the US Dogs of War, China will be having muscle spasms.

[Publicus]

China under the CCP Boyz in Beijing has not had the "major and significant correction" to its fundamentally flawed economy and financial system just yet and when the huge and loud crash occurs the political system is going tits up too.

Why China won't be the next great superpower

China is and will be a power - but the next great superpower it is not nor ever likely to be

China's state-led capitalism can only take the country so far

as it has presently maxed out.

All talk amongst global trend watchers these days is about the rise of China; how China is the next big thing, the new superpower, and how China's rise will change the world we live in. A closer look at trends within China, however, point to a different story.

In a recent interview with The Times, a young well-to-do Chinese couple discussed what life was like for the nouveau riche in China today. They spoke about their trendy new apartment, their designer clothes, and the first class private education their daughter was receiving. When asked what they wished for their daughter most of all, without any hesitation, they replied “Canadian citizenship”.

There are good reasons why most of China's new middle class are dreaming of a new life in the west,

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/2190/why_china_won_t_be_the_next_great_superpower

The CCP and its PRC must needs be experience their inevitable economic 'correction' which is in only its early stages before they can even begin to get real about China in the 21st century world. Both foreign and domestic Chinese capital continues to flee to the West along with the Chinese human capital that created it. The CCP economy continues its inexorable downward slide that is beyond anyone's control as it must necessarily go over the edge.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Publicus

[F430murci]

Obama's strategy on anything has always failed. Everything he has done has ended up in a mess. Please name some of his decisions that actually turned out well. Obama care is a train wreck so don't say that one unless you actually understand it.

[Publicus]

Putin is trying to grovel back and Xi Jinping is kissing up in advance of his official state visit to Washington in September and the IMF yuan vote in October over which the USA has veto power.

These are globally the two major guys and neither wants to take on the United States. Neither wants to give ammunition to HRC in the presidential campaign nor does either want to try to box in Prez Obama during the final stretch to a new president.

Of all the candidates for prez in either party, Xi and the CCP Boyz in Beijing always get cold chills at the mention of HRC because she and the then Asst SecState for Asia/Pacific Kurt Campbell devised the "Rebalance to Asia" policy Sec Kerry has no interest in. SecDef Carter has taken personal charge in this region the rest of the way through and likely will remain at the Pentagon for the new president .

The US over the weekend positioned a P-8A Poseidon intelligence and anti-sub plane on Palawan Island owned by the Philippines and just 150 km from the Spratlys. The Pentagon put the new Littoral Combat ship USS Fort Worth there as well so stay tuned. There are lots more Poseidons here and three more new Littoral combat ships (shallow waters) are on the way as is the supercarrier Ronald Reagan.

The right refuses to admit Putin is grovelling up and that Xi is kissing up or that the White House has put SecDef Carter in charge of the strategy board here the rest of the way.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Publicus

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[sdanielmcev]

Putin groveling? China kissing up? Of course the right doesn't know about it because you just made it up. As usual. More prevaricating. Of course everything is far right if you're so far left you're not even in the solar system anymore.

[Publicus]

The OP doesn't use the word 'crossroads' but that is where the CCP Boyz in Beijing and the US are at this time so it needs to be said the two are on a collision course.

The PRChina now has enough bucks and economic clout to start to show some of its very closely held cards, as it is doing in the South China Sea. The direct consequence is that the hawks in Washington are recently gaining more support and a larger audience. The Congress is for instance, and always has been raring to go at Beijing, from hawk military actions to include economic sanctions.

The long dominant Washington and New York doves who favor dialogue, trust in cooperation, preach integration are now trying to justify their continued reign but they are already fading.

The CCP Boyz only started showing their increasing and expanding regional and near seas hand in 2012, so while presidents previous to Barack Obama have had some dicey moments with the Boyz, relations for other presidents have been very smooth on the surface.

Now that the Boyz are stepping out with a vast popular domestic support, the hawks in Washington, New York, the Pentagon especially have gained a great deal of ground and in a very short time besides.

The mixing, grinding and smoke emanating from among US policy level experts in and out of government, driven by the Pentagon will continue until there is a new president. In the meantime however, the China hawks in the US are decidedly and freely ascendant. Xi Jinping knows this and is now trying to slow things down for a while by trying to buttress the US doves he has known for a considerable time, and that he's known so very well for more than a decade.

The Boyz really don't like SecDef Ashton Carter but Carter has been put in charge around here for the duration. The Boyz favor US Ambassador Max Baucus who's informed the Boyz a lot about Washington and the Congress, but Max is an old Congress guy from way back so the Boyz don't stand a chance with him either.

[LawrenceChee]

The USA strategy of trying to contain China has always failed and its arrogance and ignorance that had led the USA to its current state

China is standing on its own rights and will continue to make policy decisions that favours its own interests ; I don't think any other country would do otherwise

So getting used to it may just be a smart strategy

[Publicus]

Containment is the central strategy, yes. And the CCP Chinese are already on the inevitable and unavoidable course of failure previously travelled by the former USSR in Moscow.

The Soviet Union failed because of its inherent and fatal fundamentals. The same wrongheaded slowness is already occurring to the CCP Chinese who haven't yet had their economic 'correction.'

Coming soon.

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

[LawrenceChee]

Containment is the central strategy, yes. And the CCP Chinese are already on the inevitable and unavoidable course of failure previously travelled by the former USSR in Moscow.

The Soviet Union failed because of its inherent and fatal fundamentals. The same wrongheaded slowness is already occurring to the CCP Chinese who haven't yet had their economic 'correction.'

Coming soon.

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

Indeed a good description on the present state of affairs of USA ...how hard they have fallen in recents times

However there are certain sectors with bright individuals and enterprising spirit ...now to elect a better head of state might just work for the better good of the masses

[Publicus]

The USA strategy of trying to contain China has always failed and its arrogance and ignorance that had led the USA to its current state

China is standing on its own rights and will continue to make policy decisions that favours its own interests ; I don't think any other country would do otherwise

So getting used to it may just be a smart strategy

its arrogance and ignorance that had led the USA to its current state

Experience with the CCP Chinese on their own turf is that the CCP Chinese need roughly once a month to be reminded they are no longer speaking to a 12th century peasantry or to peasants and that this is the 21st century world.

A major flaw and failure of the Heavenly Kingdom Chinese is that they presumed to speak from on high to 19th century British royalty and their elites, which then proceeded to kick Chinese arse. All the CCP Chinese got out of that was their present and again wrongheaded revanchism and irredentism.

The CCP Chinese continue to think and act solely on the basis of race, ethnicity, egocentrism. The CCP Chinese continue to expect the world to be impressed and intimidated in tribute before them as if the world of nations and peoples were the Sino-Thai elites.

Reality is that the older one is the slower and more dimwitted they are, and the bigger they think they are the harder they do fall. That's especially true of those who never learn or who acquire only the wrong lessons, repeatedly, over a long period of time and wrongly interpreted experience.

The present state of the USA btw is modern, advancing, defining the future.

[LawrenceChee]

It would be interesting if some posters have an opportunity to meet some intellectual Chinese in a think tank

They probably realise Chinese culture and intellectual matches any seen in a model society

It shows however there is a small minority that still thinks China is doomed for failure and has only backward imperialistic thinking ....ah well the dreams of unicorns and fairies

I am hoping Obama or the next president continue to engage as its a necessity now not a nicety to engage China

[squarethecircle]

It would be interesting if some posters have an opportunity to meet some intellectual Chinese in a think tank

They probably realise Chinese culture and intellectual matches any seen in a model society

It shows however there is a small minority that still thinks China is doomed for failure and has only backward imperialistic thinking ....ah well the dreams of unicorns and fairies

I am hoping Obama or the next president continue to engage as its a necessity now not a nicety to engage China

I know some German creep who works in a Chinese intellectual think tank in Shanghai.

It seems like he just repeats CCP dogma back to them and uses it as a way to get into Chinese women's pants*.

At least he's one step ahead of Obama, who just kisses up to these punks and gets nothing out of it.

*not to demean females, but it is creepy how this German just kisses up to the gangsters running China and then goes around acting like he's God's gift to Chinese women

[Publicus]

It would be interesting if some posters have an opportunity to meet some intellectual Chinese in a think tank

They probably realise Chinese culture and intellectual matches any seen in a model society

It shows however there is a small minority that still thinks China is doomed for failure and has only backward imperialistic thinking ....ah well the dreams of unicorns and fairies

I am hoping Obama or the next president continue to engage as its a necessity now not a nicety to engage China

The naturally occurring superiority of the Chinese occurs only to the Chinese while they continue to pronounce from on high and to lecture and scold as the elderly senior to the errant junior.

'Nice' would be coincidental to the hard cash strictly business relationship between the CCP Boyz and the CCP Chinese, and the USA. The two economies had become intertwined, however, as the CCP economy downslides towards its inevitable and overdue 'correction', the relationship is transforming in to a military one given that the CCP Boyz and the CCP Chinese have begun to show their hand, as in the South China Sea.

Prez Obama consequently has given the hawks in Washington and New York in and out of government the green light, so the CCP Boyz make yet another error in believing they need to advance now instead of wait for a new president. Xi has backed off in the SCS because of his upcoming official state visit to Washington in September and due to the IMF vote in October on the yuan which Prez Obama has veto power over. Neither does Xi nor his Boyz want the CCP to become a hot issue in the election campaign next year.

The CCP Boyz fear Hillary Clinton more than anyone in the United States and the CCP Chinese hate her more than the Republican party right wing does, so the best days of US-CCP relations which weren't so great anyway are already history.

As noted in the quote, HRC had a significant interview with the Atlantic while SecState....

Clinton even went so far as to provocatively suggest that China’s Communist Party would collapse under the weight of a popular uprising similar to what’s unfolding in parts of West Asia and Northern Africa.

“(The Chinese) are worried. They’re trying to stop history, which is a fool’s errand. They cannot do it, but they’re going to hold it off as long as possible,” Clinton told interviewer Jeffrey Goldberg.

When Chinese leaders hear a sitting US Secretary of State “make an offhand remark that sounds like, ‘we know you’’re going to collapse, sooner or later,’ it’s like confirmation of their worst paranoid fears.”

As Goldberg notes on his blog, Clinton’s comments calling into question the long-term viability of China’s one-party system is extraordinary, and “almost-Reaganesque”. And although the Obama administration has been stepping up its criticism of China’s human rights record, Clinton’s remarks go much farther

http://www.firstpost.com/world/explosive-hillary-clinton-says-china%E2%80%99s-regime-will-collapse-7720.html

The Chinese Internet Hates Hillary Clinton Even More than Republicans Do

Some Netizens Fear a Tough China Stance, While Others are Just Sexist

• April 13, 2015

Within hours, Chinese news sites shared the announcement on Weibo, China’s most popular micro-blogging platform, provoking thousands of comments from Chinese netizens. Most of the popular comments were nasty.

On a popular post about Clinton’s announcement from state-run Chinese Central Television (CCTV), the most upvoted comment called her an “old witch,” who, if elected, “would make Sino-U.S. elections even worse.”

In a popular comment, one user expressed concern that Clinton would increase regional tensions by moving closer to China’s rival Japan and stirring up trouble in the South China Sea, where Beijing and Washington are already angling for influence. Another predicted that if Clinton became president, “World War III would not be far away.”

http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/media/chinese-internet-hates-hillary-clinton-even-more-republicans-do

[LawrenceChee]

It would be interesting if some posters have an opportunity to meet some intellectual Chinese in a think tank

They probably realise Chinese culture and intellectual matches any seen in a model society

It shows however there is a small minority that still thinks China is doomed for failure and has only backward imperialistic thinking ....ah well the dreams of unicorns and fairies

I am hoping Obama or the next president continue to engage as its a necessity now not a nicety to engage China

I know some German creep who works in a Chinese intellectual think tank in Shanghai.

It seems like he just repeats CCP dogma back to them and uses it as a way to get into Chinese women's pants*.

At least he's one step ahead of Obama, who just kisses up to these punks and gets nothing out of it.

*not to demean females, but it is creepy how this German just kisses up to the gangsters running China and then goes around acting like he's God's gift to Chinese women

Seems like there is something creepy here that keeps attracting some to see the worst out of every Chinese scenario ...speaks a lot of the literal term hanging out in the trenches to get Intel

Guess there is always the low hanging roots ....

[Scott]

A post with foreign script has been removed.

[sdanielmcev]

It would be interesting if some posters have an opportunity to meet some intellectual Chinese in a think tank

They probably realise Chinese culture and intellectual matches any seen in a model society

It shows however there is a small minority that still thinks China is doomed for failure and has only backward imperialistic thinking ....ah well the dreams of unicorns and fairies

I am hoping Obama or the next president continue to engage as its a necessity now not a nicety to engage China

The naturally occurring superiority of the Chinese occurs only to the Chinese while they continue to pronounce from on high and to lecture and scold as the elderly senior to the errant junior.

'Nice' would be coincidental to the hard cash strictly business relationship between the CCP Boyz and the CCP Chinese, and the USA. The two economies had become intertwined, however, as the CCP economy downslides towards its inevitable and overdue 'correction', the relationship is transforming in to a military one given that the CCP Boyz and the CCP Chinese have begun to show their hand, as in the South China Sea.

Prez Obama consequently has given the hawks in Washington and New York in and out of government the green light, so the CCP Boyz make yet another error in believing they need to advance now instead of wait for a new president. Xi has backed off in the SCS because of his upcoming official state visit to Washington in September and due to the IMF vote in October on the yuan which Prez Obama has veto power over. Neither does Xi nor his Boyz want the CCP to become a hot issue in the election campaign next year.

The CCP Boyz fear Hillary Clinton more than anyone in the United States and the CCP Chinese hate her more than the Republican party right wing does, so the best days of US-CCP relations which weren't so great anyway are already history.

As noted in the quote, HRC had a significant interview with the Atlantic while SecState....

Clinton even went so far as to provocatively suggest that Chinas Communist Party would collapse under the weight of a popular uprising similar to whats unfolding in parts of West Asia and Northern Africa.

(The Chinese) are worried. Theyre trying to stop history, which is a fools errand. They cannot do it, but theyre going to hold it off as long as possible, Clinton told interviewer Jeffrey Goldberg.

When Chinese leaders hear a sitting US Secretary of State make an offhand remark that sounds like, we know youre going to collapse, sooner or later, its like confirmation of their worst paranoid fears.

As Goldberg notes on his blog, Clintons comments calling into question the long-term viability of Chinas one-party system is extraordinary, and almost-Reaganesque. And although the Obama administration has been stepping up its criticism of Chinas human rights record, Clintons remarks go much farther

http://www.firstpost.com/world/explosive-hillary-clinton-says-china%E2%80%99s-regime-will-collapse-7720.html

The Chinese Internet Hates Hillary Clinton Even More than Republicans Do

Some Netizens Fear a Tough China Stance, While Others are Just Sexist

• April 13, 2015

Within hours, Chinese news sites shared the announcement on Weibo, Chinas most popular micro-blogging platform, provoking thousands of comments from Chinese netizens. Most of the popular comments were nasty.

On a popular post about Clintons announcement from state-run Chinese Central Television (CCTV), the most upvoted comment called her an old witch, who, if elected, would make Sino-U.S. elections even worse.

In a popular comment, one user expressed concern that Clinton would increase regional tensions by moving closer to Chinas rival Japan and stirring up trouble in the South China Sea, where Beijing and Washington are already angling for influence. Another predicted that if Clinton became president, World War III would not be far away.

http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/media/chinese-internet-hates-hillary-clinton-even-more-republicans-do

Another laughable post. Clinton, like most dems are soft on foreign policy. China doesn't fear Obama or Clinton any more than they do a box of Cheerios.

[Publicus]

Tell me about it.

Get with the program....

Japan, Philippines defy China with second spy plane flight

June 26, 2015

PUERTO PRINCESA – Japan and the Philippines flew patrol planes near disputed South China Sea waters for a second straight day on Wednesday, despite Chinese criticism of this week’s air and sea exercises.

A Japanese P-3C Orion and a Philippine navy Islander conducted a search and rescue drill 50 nautical miles (93 kilometres) northwest of the Philippine island of Palawan, officials said. The flight was in the general direction of the resource-rich Reed Bank claimed by both the Philippines and China.

The Philippines is also holding separate Naval exercises with long-time ally the United States off Palawan Island this week, as it seeks to bolster alliances in the face of its territorial disputes with China.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/foreign/26-Jun-2015/japan-philippines-defy-china-with-second-spy-plane-flight