rijit Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) I reckon it must be strange for the child if they are with a gay couple. I would think it would really have a psychological effect on them that wwould stay with them for lifeperhaps you'd care to outline those effects? Yes the rationalisation of not having a Mother and a Father which the other children have. Who is the mother and who is the father? You obviously have some very strange concepts of people if you believe a child is going to identify two men or women as a mother and father. The child is the one who has to take the name calling from other children not the gay "parents"Your putting your ignorance onto the children. When i was a.child single parents had a stigma not amongst us kids, we didnt give a.fuc but the parents did, and that was what was reflected in the kids. These days kids deal far more social scenarios than we ever did and are far more adapt at it so dont put your biggotry onto them rijit Edited August 24, 2015 by rijit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takkatan in the land Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world. Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijit Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Whats there to expose? All consenting adults, in it for whatever reasons, The women for the money and the males for a genetic offspring. Thats their choise, because it doesnt fall into others limited veiw or conform to their lifestyle, doesnt imo make a very strong arguemnt a more constructive and benefical approach would be to examine and broaden your view and lifestyle rather than critise others for theirs and their choisesrijit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Same as infertile straight couples which employ surrogates. Nothing to expose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takkatan in the land Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Whats there to expose? All consenting adults, in it for whatever reasons, The women for the money and the males for a genetic offspring. Thats their choise, because it doesnt fall into others limited veiw or conform to their lifestyle, doesnt imo make a very strong arguemnt a more constructive and benefical approach would be to examine and broaden your view and lifestyle rather than critise others for theirs and their choisesrijit yeah those who we think different we have limited view you just describe yourself here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takkatan in the land Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Same as infertile straight couples which employ surrogates. Nothing to expose. you miss one point here buddy, if the straight couple were not infertile they would be capable to conceive a kid by themselves nor a couple of gays even if they are fertile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I missed no point. They're in the same boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Same as infertile straight couples which employ surrogates. Nothing to expose. Two Gay men renting a 3rd world woman to make a baby - nothing to expose, it's as American as Apple pie.. not sure if your serious but thank god Thailand put an end to it... How weird would it be to that baby growing up in that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Two Gay men renting a 3rd world woman to make a baby - nothing to expose, it's as American as Apple pie.. not sure if your serious but thank god Thailand put an end to it... How weird would it be to that baby growing up in that situation? It wasn't illegal when the contract was signed. I don't have a problem with nations banning surrogacy in general but I do have a problem with anti-gay bigotry. I don't know whether Thai laws are retroactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijit Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Same as infertile straight couples which employ surrogates. Nothing to expose. Two Gay men renting a 3rd world woman to make a baby - nothing to expose, it's as American as Apple pie.. not sure if your serious but thank god Thailand put an end to it... How weird would it be to that baby growing up in that situation? Sounds like it would be more weird to you and your ignorance. rijit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I reckon it must be strange for the child if they are with a gay couple. I would think it would really have a psychological effect on them that wwould stay with them for lifeperhaps you'd care to outline those effects? Yes the rationalisation of not having a Mother and a Father which the other children have. Who is the mother and who is the father? You obviously have some very strange concepts of people if you believe a child is going to identify two men or women as a mother and father. The child is the one who has to take the name calling from other children not the gay "parents"Your putting your ignorance onto the children. When i was a.child single parents had a stigma not amongst us kids, we didnt give a.fuc but the parents did, and that was what was reflected in the kids. These days kids deal far more social scenarios than we ever did and are far more adapt at it so dont put your biggotry onto them rijit Obviously the poster either believes he had a perfect upbringing (i could hint at a few flaws) or doesn't have any knowledge of childcare except in the very narrow concept of his own blinkered experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 If ever a thread made the case for a 'dislike' button, this one is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijit Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Yep this topic has really attracted the narrow minded ignorant biggots out in numbers. rijit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.Except nobody chooses to be gay. Why the hell would somebody choose to live a life if constant discrimination and regular threats of violence? Do you think you could suddenly choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex if you wanted to? I don't think so. Same goes the other way. How you feel about the sex with the same sex is how gays feel about sex with the opposite sex. It's pretty simple! they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Same as infertile straight couples which employ surrogates. Nothing to expose. I am as critical of infertile parents that rent wombs in a foreign country as I am of homosexual couples that do so. It's just exploiting poor people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Whether the surrogates are "exploited" or not is matter of legitimate debate. That depends on the level of consent and the level of compensation. I'm not fooled though. This thread isn't about anti-surrogacy in general. It's mostly about the issue of gay parents and surrogacy. Sure people shop over borders for better deals on a lot of things. Does the plastic surgery patient who goes to Thailand to get a face lift cheaper than their home country "exploit" the surgeons here? I think definitely not. Edited August 26, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Whether the surrogates are "exploited" or not is matter of legitimate debate. That depends on the level of consent and the level of compensation. I'm not fooled though. This thread isn't about anti-surrogacy in general. It's mostly about the issue of gay parents and surrogacy. Sure people shop over borders for better deals on a lot of things. Does the plastic surgery patient who goes to Thailand to get a face lift cheaper than their home country "exploit" the surgeons here? I think definitely not. Speaking with my theatre nurse cap on, anyone that goes to a foreign country for potentially life ruining unnecessary surgery is a mug, regardless of how much cheaper it is. I had a broken bone in my hand pinned ( very simple surgery ) and they managed to stuff that up. There is no such thing as foolproof surgery. I don't include dentistry as if they stuff that up it's not life changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) It's a free will choice whether people go abroad for services or not. That is NOT the question here! This couple did go abroad for this service, legal at that time, and it appears anti-gay bigotry rather than Thai law is being use to deny them their new family member, this baby, who has no genetic connection to the surrogate mother. I don't know who is going to win on this conflict as it is clearly very messy, but the persistence of the parents here (not the Thai lady) to see this through is remarkable. Edited August 26, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 It's a free will choice whether people go abroad for services or not. That is NOT the question here! This couple did go abroad for this service, legal at that time, and it appears anti-gay bigotry rather than Thai law is being use to deny them their new family member, this baby, who has no genetic connection to the surrogate mother. I don't know who is going to win on this conflict as it is clearly very messy, but the persistence of the parents here (not the Thai lady) to see this through is remarkable. IMO it's a MORAL choice, but these days few have any. Selfishness prevails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsycat Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The surrogate must have known, right from the start. What straight couple would hire a surrogate and the wife doesn't even meet her? I think about these guys and their beautiful children quite a bit. I must have a looky at the facebook page and see if there are any updates. As for the TV bigots and homophobes - there are no words that would not be deleted for what i would like to say to you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Here we go again with the morality lectures. Obviously, parents who adopt babies (whether gay, straight, fertile, or infertile) that don't have any of their genes are more "unselflish" than those who desire their genes to be passed on. But as that's the vast majority of parents in the history of our species, I suppose you might say we're a "selfish" species and always have been. Demonizing and scapegoating gay and lesbian couples in the world who want to be "selfish" this same way is irrational. Edited August 26, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Here we go again with the morality lectures. Obviously, parents who adopt babies (whether gay, straight, fertile, or infertile) that don't have any of their genes are more "unselflish" than those who desire their genes to be passed on. But as that's the vast majority of parents in the history of our species, I suppose you might say we're a "selfish" species and always have been. Demonizing and scapegoating gay and lesbian couples in the world who want to be "selfish" this same way is irrational. Given that you are responding to me, you seem to have a problem understanding that my objection stands regardless of sexual orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) So what? It's totally irrational either way. Why don't you call fertile couples who have babies selfish for not adopting? But you don't. The desire to pass on your genes is totally normal for PEOPLE. Period. It would be ideal if all the unwanted children in the world found good adoptive homes as well. Sadly, it doesn't work out that way. This perfect world of perfect morality doesn't exist but meanwhile, this gay family deserves to take THEIR baby home! Edited August 26, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world. "I have no objection to life style choices" - and the most predictable cliche of the thread award goes to............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijit Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 they didn't choose to be gay, but they did certainly choose to conceive a kid two people of the same sex, which it's imposible thing to make, so they had to rent a women's belly to conceive their kid, which it's the only way they could have their dream come truth, using a women to do what, because they cannot, they are not capable by themselves. And it's this what was it exposed and criticized here. Just that. Same as infertile straight couples which employ surrogates. Nothing to expose. I am as critical of infertile parents that rent wombs in a foreign country as I am of homosexual couples that do so. It's just exploiting poor people. thats debatable and definitely a/your value judgement , it could be argued the surrogate is exploiting the people inability to conceive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world. "I have no objection to life style choices" - and the most predictable cliche of the thread award goes to............ Being a GLBT person isn't a lifestyle choice. Surfing is a lifestyle choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 So what? It's totally irrational either way. Why don't you call fertile couples who have babies selfish for not adopting? But you don't. The desire to pass on your genes is totally normal for PEOPLE. Period. It would be ideal if all the unwanted children in the world found good adoptive homes as well. Sadly, it doesn't work out that way. This perfect world of perfect morality doesn't exist but meanwhile, this gay family deserves to take THEIR baby home! Oh come on! There aren't enough children in western countries to adopt available, so they will obviously be prioritised to infertile couples. That is why we are hearing stories of how difficult it was for people to adopt from other countries. If there were enough babies in western countries no one would be looking overseas. So your argument is irrelevant. Yes, I understand why people want to pass on their genes, but I'd rather they did it in their own countries, unless they actually want to marry the foreign mother of their child ( having children is the only reason I can support marriage for ). Their child? There is another person involved and they should have done their homework better before starting. I'm not familiar with the legal aspect, but if the woman puts her name on the birth cert, she is the mother and has the right to keep the baby. Enough women use preganancy in the west to make men pay for years and years to make that clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 This baby exists now, whether people think that should have ever happened or not. So now it's basically a high profile international custody battle and people are taking sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 This baby exists now, whether people think that should have ever happened or not. So now it's basically a high profile international custody battle and people are taking sides. True. However, unless they have deep pockets I think the "mother" will win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 This baby exists now, whether people think that should have ever happened or not. So now it's basically a high profile international custody battle and people are taking sides. True. However, unless they have deep pockets I think the "mother" will win. Hopefully.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 This baby exists now, whether people think that should have ever happened or not. So now it's basically a high profile international custody battle and people are taking sides. True. However, unless they have deep pockets I think the "mother" will win. Hopefully.... they will have deep pockets? I guess it partly depends on her true motivations. I am very skeptical that it's really about being anti-gay. Other motivations have been discussed ... no need to repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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