Virgin Coconut Oil

[Ulysses G.]

I've been reading about the wonders of eating virgin coconut oil which is supposed to be even better for one than olive oil.

Where in the Kingdom can one buy excellent quality virgin coconut oil for a reasonable price?

Edited September 16, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[kat]

From my friends. She is an English woman married to a Thai man and they are running a new business producing virgin coconut oil. They gave me some too and it's great.

Her name is Shola. I'll tell her to have a look at this thread. Watch this space.

[Khun Jean]

I know a little about this as i researched how to make it.

It is actually very easy to make. Especially if you are in Thailand.

Just go to the market and buy some fresh pressed coconut milk.

Now you have 2 choices. Just let it sit in a pan for 2-3 days. The milk will start to fermentate (sp). The oil will start floating on the top and you can skim it of.

2nd. You heat the coconut milk, this also seperates the oil.

The best quality however is 'cold' pressed. For this you need a press, in the market they can do it for you to, only they are not used to it.

First you take the white coconut meat and let it dry, not by heating it, then it would not be 'cold' anymore but by drying it in the sun. To make this process faster you have to shred the white meat in small pieces. Not too small.

After it is dry, you press it. At the market they add water, obvious if you want the oil this step has to be skipped. Press it and .... cold pressed virgin coconut oil.

If you have too much, put it in your diesel tank and drive on clean biological coconut oil.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm much too lazy to make it.

I'll be looking for Shola's reply!

[Shola]

Hi!

Yes me and hubby have a (newly built) huge export factory for organic virgin coconut oil, the only centrifugaly seperated oil in the country! Ahem ok product placement over with!

We generally sell wholesale but I can certainly hook you up with a few liters.

It would be 400B per liter.

BTW fermented coconut oil is basicly rancid and oil extracted with heat has lost all its valuable properties.

We use a patented cold pressed centrifugal technic so you get the highest levels of anti-oxidents and MCFA (medium chain fatty acids)

You can eat it, cook with it, apply it topicly or style your hair with it!

PM me if your interested!

Sho

[kayo]

I´ve been readin about the wonders of Virgin`s spreading coconut oil on ---

user self-moderated...!

Chang Chompuu Woz `ERE

[Khun Jean]

It would be 400B per liter.

That is why i prefer to make it myself.

About 25 baht for 1 liter. And yes it is also cold pressed to remain all the good qualities. But for that you need a good press.

Fortunately people on the market that make coconutmilk from fresh coconuts have the right equipment.

With fermenting you ferment the 'milk' not the oil. The quality is almost the same as cold pressed. The process is used in the Philipines and they are very succesfull.

For export the price is on par with others, in a Thai market it is completely unsellable.

Now how much was a rai with a coconut orchard?

I bet a million baht, coconuts will be much more expensive in the future, now that many orchard are converted for palm oil. And the funny thing is, coconut oil is a much much better basis for biodiesel than all other sources.

[Ulysses G.]

oil extracted with heat has lost all its valuable properties.

That is interesting because the book that I'm reading about virgin coconut oil is about a Philipino man who sells and promotes it in the US, but I'm pretty sure that he uses a heat process.

I prefer raw.

[sabaijai]

Very interesting thread. If you're taking coconut oil strictly for its health properties, can't you just eat fresh-pressed coconut milk from the market (rather than extracting the oil)?

[sbk]

OK, excuse my ignorance but how is coconut oil good for you? Must it be cold pressed? Is there some thing in the process that somehow reduces the saturated fat level?

Because everyone I know on my island grew up making (and cooking with) their own coconut oil (heat extracted), have eaten coconut products their entire lives (sweets, curries etc) and nearly every single one of them have high blood pressure or heart disease.

[Ulysses G.]

According to all the holistic health types, virgin coconut fat is highly beneficial to human beings despite the saturated fat - more so than virgin olive oil.

Supposedly it got it's bad reputation because rival Western food oil producers purposely sponsored tests way back when using hydronated coconut oil - rather than virgin - to discredit it and Westerners have avoided it ever since.

As to why sbk's islanders have bad health. Could they be using hydronated or partially hydronated oil?

To sabaijai, yes you can use coconut milk although perhaps it is heated (I'm not sure about that) which would ruin some of the benifits of eating it raw, or just eat the meat of young coconuts, however, there are a lot of ways that coconut oil can be used outside the body and I want to experiment with them as well.

[Khun Jean]

Thai people, at least the ones i know, are not convinced about the healthy properties of coconut. They think it will make you fat and get heart problems. If your weight is not changing to much and you substitue the oil, butter or fat that you use to cook wit coconut oil, you will loose weight! This because it is not getting in your blood but goes straight to your liver. It costs the body more energy to break it down than with other oils and fats.

When you look at which ingredients are used for a green curry notice the amount of chilly, sugar and 'pomsulot' (sp).

That last one is a real 'brain' killer, and it is used a lot.

The heart deseases and high blood pressure can be accounted to other foods, ingredients and especially snacks.

Other products that can be made, and i am experimenting with those, are soaps, lotions, shampoo and conditioner, makeup basis, scented oil, etc.. You can say i have a coconut hobby. What to think of drinking cups, lamps, floormats, charcoal, etc..

The rest i have left, into the car..

[sbk]

These are people who didn't eat processed foods for many years of their lives.

One man in particular lived a very healthy life, drank little, didn't smoke, went fishing every day, washboard abs at 60. I doubt he ate much processed foods, certainly never saw him eating any all the years he lived next door to me. Heart attack at 62, in his fishing boat. Survived the trip back, survived the boat trip over to Samui and to the hospital. Dr there said it would have killed a weaker man.

My father-in-law is the same, I have never seen the man eat processed foods or snacks. He is fit and healthy (still getting coconuts down at 70) and has had high blood pressure for years. Mother-in-law too.

[sabaijai]

sbk if you Google for 'coconut oil' or 'coconut cure' you'll find lots of articles about the health benefits. Or on Amazon you can find a slew of books touting the 'coconut cure'. The Thais have used raw coconut milk and coconut cream as a medicine for certain ailments for centuries. I have a farang woman friend here in Thailand who tried for years to rid herself of candida and in the end only a daily dose for 2-4 tbsp of fresh coconut cream (ka-ti) did the job. She heard about the cure from other women who had had similar results.

A lot of people mistakenly believe that coconuts contain cholesterol, which of course is only present in animal fats.

As for the supposed link with heart disease, apparently there is no conclusive evidence to support that notion. From Wikipedia:

During the 1980's, The American Heart Association, advised that coconut oil's high saturated fat content was detrimental to cardiovascular health and promotes heart disease. Due to a study at the Heart Research Institute in Sydney, Australia in reaserch they used coconut oil and safflower oil (a polyunsaturated fat) in two otherwise identical meals. The old studies however were based on hydrogentated oil and polyunsaturated fats. Instead of regular refined or virgin coconut oils. This old study found that:

“...three hours after eating [the coconut oil meal], the lining of the arteries was hindered from expanding to increase blood flow. And after six hours, the anti-inflammatory qualities of the good cholesterol were reduced.

“But [the safflower oil meal] seemed to improve those anti-inflammatory qualities. Also, fewer inflammatory agents were found in the arteries than before the meal.”[3].

The above study involved only 14 subjects and thus continued reaserch in modern times is now disproving these older results. What once was thought to be unhealthy is now making a u-turn that cocnut oil is indeed very healthy and beneficial

Modern Research and Health Benefits More reseacrh beyond the use of isolated studies of more than 14 people have shown promising health benefits of coconut oil. A study demonstrated that lauric acid (the most abundant fat in coconut oil) is highly effective at stimulating Peptide YY (PYY) release and suppressing ghrelin secretion.[4] Ghrelin suppression usually leads to lowered hunger levels, and thus a lowered likelihood of snacking between meals and eating too much during meals.[5]

Weight loss is also associated with a diet that uses coconut oils by regulating the thyroid function and ails digestive problems. Other more promising research studies indicate that coconut oil may actually lower bad cholestrol and reduce the risk of heart disease. The high amounts of lauric acid help prevent anti-fungal infections, and anti-batreial infections, and promote a healthy immune system. It also has no trans fats and may even be the healthiest oil you can consume according to many doctors and researchers. It is also associated with reduced risk of hypercholesteremia, diabetes, and related ailments. Coconut promotes healthy skin, and helps prevent osteoprosis and so many other numerous health benefits that it is hard to ignore. The conlusion is that coconut oil is unique from any other oil and far more healthy than once thought thanks to continued reasearch.

[sabaijai]

One of the most comprehensive single sources of health-related coconut issues online is the Coconut Research Center. It's main objective obviously is to promote the author's books on coconut therapy, so it's hard to say how reliable the info is but it's worth a look.

Coconut

(Cocos nucifera)

The Tree of Life

The scientific name for coconut is Cocos nucifera. Early Spanish explorers called it coco, which means "monkey face" because the three indentations (eyes) on the hairy nut resembles the head and face of a monkey. Nucifera means "nut-bearing."

The coconut provides a nutritious source of meat, juice, milk, and oil that has fed and nourished populations around the world for generations. On many islands coconut is a staple in the diet and provides the majority of the food eaten. Nearly one third of the world's population depends on coconut to some degree for their food and their economy. Among these cultures the coconut has a long and respected history.

Coconut is highly nutritious and rich in fiber, vitamins, and minerals. It is classified as a "functional food" because it provides many health benefits beyond its nutritional content. Coconut oil is of special interest because it possesses healing properties far beyond that of any other dietary oil and is extensively used in traditional medicine among Asian and Pacific populations. Pacific Islanders consider coconut oil to be the cure for all illness. The coconut palm is so highly valued by them as both a source of food and medicine that it is called "The Tree of Life." Only recently has modern medical science unlocked the secrets to coconut's amazing healing powers.

Coconut In Traditional Medicine

People from many diverse cultures, languages, religions, and races scattered around the globe have revered the coconut as a valuable source of both food and medicine. Wherever the coconut palm grows the people have learned of its importance as a effective medicine. For thousands of years coconut products have held a respected and valuable place in local folk medicine.

In traditional medicine around the world coconut is used to treat a wide variety of health problems including the following: abscesses, asthma, baldness, bronchitis, bruises, burns, colds, constipation, cough, dropsy, dysentery, earache, fever, flu, gingivitis, gonorrhea, irregular or painful menstruation, jaundice, kidney stones, lice, malnutrition, nausea, rash, scabies, scurvy, skin infections, sore throat, swelling, syphilis, toothache, tuberculosis, tumors, typhoid, ulcers, upset stomach, weakness, and wounds.

Coconut In Modern Medicine

Modern medical science is now confirming the use of coconut in treating many of the above conditions. Published studies in medical journals show that coconut, in one form or another, may provide a wide range of health benefits. Some of these are summarized below:

Kills viruses that cause influenza, herpes, measles, hepatitis C, SARS, AIDS, and other illnesses.

Kills bacteria that cause ulcers, throat infections, urinary tract infections, gum disease and cavities, pneumonia, and gonorrhea, and other diseases.

Kills fungi and yeasts that cause candidiasis, ringworm, athlete's foot, thrush, diaper rash, and other infections.

Expels or kills tapeworms, lice, giardia, and other parasites.

Provides a nutritional source of quick energy.

Boosts energy and endurance, enhancing physical and athletic performance.

Improves digestion and absorption of other nutrients including vitamins, minerals, and amino acids.

Improves insulin secretion and utilization of blood glucose.

Relieves stress on pancreas and enzyme systems of the body.

Reduces symptoms associated with pancreatitis.

Helps relieve symptoms and reduce health risks associated with diabetes.

Reduces problems associated with malabsorption syndrome and cystic fibrosis.

Improves calcium and magnesium absorption and supports the development of strong bones and teeth.

Helps protect against osteoporosis.

Helps relieve symptoms associated with gallbladder disease.

Relieves symptoms associated with Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and stomach ulcers.

Improves digestion and bowel function.

Relieves pain and irritation caused by hemorrhoids.

Reduces inflammation.

Supports tissue healing and repair.

Supports and aids immune system function.

Helps protect the body from breast, colon, and other cancers.

Is heart healthy; improves cholesterol ratio reducing risk of heart disease.

Protects arteries from injury that causes atherosclerosis and thus protects against heart disease.

Helps prevent periodontal disease and tooth decay.

Functions as a protective antioxidant.

Helps to protect the body from harmful free radicals that promote premature aging and degenerative disease.

Does not deplete the body's antioxidant reserves like other oils do.

Improves utilization of essential fatty acids and protects them from oxidation.

Helps relieve symptoms associated with chronic fatigue syndrome.

Relieves symptoms associated with benign prostatic hyperplasia (prostate enlargement).

Reduces epileptic seizures.

Helps protect against kidney disease and bladder infections.

Dissolves kidney stones.

Helps prevent liver disease.

Is lower in calories than all other fats.

Supports thyroid function.

Promotes loss of excess weight by increasing metabolic rate.

Is utilized by the body to produce energy in preference to being stored as body fat like other dietary fats.

Helps prevent obesity and overweight problems.

Applied topically helps to form a chemical barrier on the skin to ward of infection.

Reduces symptoms associated the psoriasis, eczema, and dermatitis.

Supports the natural chemical balance of the skin.

Softens skin and helps relieve dryness and flaking.

Prevents wrinkles, sagging skin, and age spots.

Promotes healthy looking hair and complexion.

Provides protection form damaging effects of ultraviolet radiation form the sun.

Helps control dandruff.

Does not form harmful by-products when heated to normal cooking temperature like other vegetable oils do.

Has no harmful or discomforting side effects.

Is completely non-toxic to humans.

See Research to read some of the published studies regarding the above mentioned uses of coconut products.

Coconut Oil

While coconut possesses many health benefits due to its fiber and nutritional content, it's the oil that makes it a truly remarkable food and medicine.

Once mistakenly believed to be unhealthy because of its high saturated fat content, it is now known that the fat in coconut oil is a unique and different from most all other fats and possesses many health giving properties. It is now gaining long overdue recognition as a nutritious health food.

Coconut oil has been described as "the healthiest oil on earth." That's quite a remarkable statement. What makes coconut oil so good? What makes it different from all other oils, especially other saturated fats?

The difference is in the fat molecule. All fats and oils are composed of molecules called fatty acids. There are two methods of classifying fatty acids. The first you are probably familiar with, is based on saturation. You have saturated fats, monounsaturated fats, and polyunsaturated fats. Another system of classification is based on molecular size or length of the carbon chain within each fatty acid. Fatty acids consist of long chains of carbon atoms with hydrogen atoms attached. In this system you have short-chain fatty acids (SCFA), medium-chain fatty acids (MCFA), and long-chain fatty acids (LCFA). Coconut oil is composed predominately of medium-chain fatty acids (MCFA), also known as medium-chain triglycerides (MCT).

The vast majority of fats and oils in our diets, whether they are saturated or unsaturated or come from animals or plants, are composed of long-chain fatty acids (LCFA). Some 98 to 100% of all the fatty acids you consume are LCFA.

The size of the fatty acid is extremely important. Why? Because our bodies respond to and metabolize each fatty acid differently depending on its size. So the physiological effects of MCFA in coconut oil are distinctly different from those of LCFA more commonly found in our foods. The saturated fatty acids in coconut oil are predominately medium-chain fatty acids. Both the saturated and unsaturated fat found in meat, milk, eggs, and plants (including most all vegetable oils) are composed of LCFA.

MCFA are very different from LCFA. They do not have a negative effect on cholesterol and help to protect against heart disease. MCFA help to lower the risk of both atherosclerosis and heart disease. It is primarily due to the MCFA in coconut oil that makes it so special and so beneficial.

There are only a very few good dietary sources of MCFA. By far the best sources are from coconut and palm kernel oils.

Copyright © 2004 Coconut Research Center

Nexus magazine published an interesting article about the origins of the coconut-oil-is-bad myth that appears to confirm what Ulysses G wrote above, ie, that it was commercially motivated.

[BambinA]

Virgin Coconut Oil, Where can I buy it?

Lemon Farm

http://www.lemonfarm.com/lmfbranch.html

[sbk]

OK, how about a link from a site that doesn't have something to sell? The Harvard School of Public Health

Detailed research -much of it done at Harvard - shows that the total amount of fat in the diet, whether high or low, isn't really linked with disease. What really matters is the type of fat in the diet. New results from the large and long Women's Health Initiative Dietary Modification Trial showed that eating a low-fat diet for 8 years did not prevent heart disease, breast cancer, or colon cancer, and didn't do much for weight loss, either.(1-4)

What is becoming clearer and clearer is that bad fats, meaning saturated and trans fats, increase the risk for certain diseases while good fats, meaning monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, lower the risk. The key is to substitute good fats for bad fats.

DIETARY FATS

Type of Fat

Effect on Cholesterol Levels

Monounsaturated

Olives; olive oil, canola oil, peanut oil; cashews, almonds, peanuts, and most other nuts; avocados Liquid

Lowers LDL; raises HDL

Polyunsaturated

Corn, soybean, safflower, and cottonseed oils; fish Liquid

Lowers LDL; raises HDL

Saturated

Whole milk, butter, cheese, and ice cream; red meat; chocolate; coconuts, coconut milk, and coconut oil Solid

Raises both LDL and HDL

Trans

Most margarines; vegetable shortening; partially hydrogenated vegetable oil; deep-fried chips; many fast foods; most commercial baked goods Solid or semi-solid

Raises LDL; lowers HDL

Saturated Fats

Saturated fats are mainly animal fats. They are found in meat, seafood, whole-milk dairy products (cheese, milk, and ice cream), poultry skin, and egg yolks. Some plant foods are also high in saturated fats, including coconut and coconut oil, palm oil, and palm kernel oil. Saturated fats raise total blood cholesterol levels more than dietary cholesterol because they tend to boost both good HDL and bad LDL cholesterol. The net effect is negative, meaning it's important to limit saturated fats.

The relation of fat intake to health is one of the areas that Harvard researchers have examined in detail over the last 20 years in two large studies. The Nurses' Health Study and the Health Professionals Follow-up Study have found no link between the overall percentage of calories from fat and any important health outcome, including cancer, heart disease, and weight gain.

What was important in these studies was the type of fat in the diet.(7) There are clear links between the different types of dietary fats and heart disease. Logically, most of the influence that fat intake has on heart disease is due to its effect on blood cholesterol levels.

Ounce for ounce, trans fats are far worse than saturated fats when it comes to heart disease. The Nurses' Health Study found that replacing only 30 calories (7 grams) of carbohydrates every day with 30 calories (4 grams) of trans fats nearly doubled the risk for heart disease.(8) Saturated fats increased risk as well, but not nearly as much.

[poorfarmer]

Where in the Kingdom can one buy excellent quality virgin coconut oil for a reasonable price?

You can buy it at the Golden Place shop(Royal project) ..sukumvit, ramkumheng, others.

100% coconut oil ~ 300 /l

You can buy it at Poo-Fah shop.sukumvit

You can buy it in Kasorn plaza 4th floor at Kow-Kor Products Small shop

You can buy it at SuksapanPanich Educating Shop at Sanamlung and Ladprow area.

[sabaijai]

OK, how about a link from a site that doesn't have something to sell? The Harvard School of Public Health

Detailed research -much of it done at Harvard - shows that the total amount of fat in the diet, whether high or low, isn't really linked with disease. What really matters is the type of fat in the diet. New results from the large and long Women's Health Initiative Dietary Modification Trial showed that eating a low-fat diet for 8 years did not prevent heart disease, breast cancer, or colon cancer, and didn't do much for weight loss, either.(1-4)

What is becoming clearer and clearer is that bad fats, meaning saturated and trans fats, increase the risk for certain diseases while good fats, meaning monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, lower the risk. The key is to substitute good fats for bad fats.

DIETARY FATS

Type of Fat

Effect on Cholesterol Levels

Monounsaturated

Olives; olive oil, canola oil, peanut oil; cashews, almonds, peanuts, and most other nuts; avocados Liquid

Lowers LDL; raises HDL

Polyunsaturated

Corn, soybean, safflower, and cottonseed oils; fish Liquid

Lowers LDL; raises HDL

Saturated

Whole milk, butter, cheese, and ice cream; red meat; chocolate; coconuts, coconut milk, and coconut oil Solid

Raises both LDL and HDL

Trans

Most margarines; vegetable shortening; partially hydrogenated vegetable oil; deep-fried chips; many fast foods; most commercial baked goods Solid or semi-solid

Raises LDL; lowers HDL

Saturated Fats

Saturated fats are mainly animal fats. They are found in meat, seafood, whole-milk dairy products (cheese, milk, and ice cream), poultry skin, and egg yolks. Some plant foods are also high in saturated fats, including coconut and coconut oil, palm oil, and palm kernel oil. Saturated fats raise total blood cholesterol levels more than dietary cholesterol because they tend to boost both good HDL and bad LDL cholesterol. The net effect is negative, meaning it's important to limit saturated fats.

The relation of fat intake to health is one of the areas that Harvard researchers have examined in detail over the last 20 years in two large studies. The Nurses' Health Study and the Health Professionals Follow-up Study have found no link between the overall percentage of calories from fat and any important health outcome, including cancer, heart disease, and weight gain.

What was important in these studies was the type of fat in the diet.(7) There are clear links between the different types of dietary fats and heart disease. Logically, most of the influence that fat intake has on heart disease is due to its effect on blood cholesterol levels.

Ounce for ounce, trans fats are far worse than saturated fats when it comes to heart disease. The Nurses' Health Study found that replacing only 30 calories (7 grams) of carbohydrates every day with 30 calories (4 grams) of trans fats nearly doubled the risk for heart disease.(8) Saturated fats increased risk as well, but not nearly as much.

Interesting. Obviously there's more than one side to this. The Wikipedia citations weren't selling anything. I'd like to learn more.

[sabaijai]

Here are excerpts (it's very long) of the Nexus article. Nexus isn't selling coconuts or books though it does tend to cover 'fringe' issues.

ABSTRACT

Coconuts play a unique role in the diets of mankind because they are the source of important physiologically functional components. These physiologically functional components are found in the fat part of whole coconut, in the fat part of desiccated coconut and in the extracted coconut oil.

Lauric acid, the major fatty acid from the fat of the coconut, has long been recognised for the unique properties that it lends to nonfood uses in the soaps and cosmetics industry. More recently, lauric acid has been recognised for its unique properties in food use, which are related to its antiviral, antibacterial and antiprotozoal functions. Now, capric acid, another of coconut's fatty acids, has been added to the list of coconut's antimicrobial components. These fatty acids are found in the largest amounts only in traditional lauric fats, especially from coconut. Also, recently published research has shown that natural coconut fat in the diet leads to a normalisation of body lipids, protects against alcohol damage to the liver and improves the immune system's anti-inflammatory response.

Clearly, there has been increasing recognition of the health-supporting functions of the fatty acids found in coconut. Recent reports from the US Food and Drug Administration about required labelling of the trans fatty acids will put coconut oil in a more competitive position and may help its return to use by the baking and snack-food industry, where it has continued to be recognised for its functionality. Now it can be recognised for another kind of functionality: the improvement of the health of mankind.

III. ORIGINS OF THE ANTI - SATURATED FAT, ANTI - TROPICAL OILS AGENDA

When and how did the anti - saturated fat story begin? It really began in part in the late 1950s, when a researcher in Minnesota announced that the heart disease epidemic was being caused by hydrogenated vegetable fats. The edible oil industry's response at that time was to claim it was only the saturated fat in the hydrogenated oils that was causing the problem. The industry then announced that it would be changing to partially hydrogenated fats and that this would solve the problem.

In actual fact, there was no change because the oils were already being partially hydrogenated and the levels of saturated fatty acids remained similar, as did the levels of the trans fatty acids. The only thing that really changed was the term for "hydrogenation" or "hardening" listed on the food label.

During this same period, a researcher in Philadelphia reported that consuming polyunsaturated fatty acids lowered serum cholesterol. This researcher neglected, however, to include the information that the lowering was due to the cholesterol going into the tissues such as the liver and the arteries. As a result of this research report and the acceptance of this new agenda by the domestic edible oils industry, there was a gradual increase in the emphasis on replacing "saturated fats" in the diet and on consuming larger amounts of the "polyunsaturated fats".

As many of you probably know, this strong emphasis on consuming polyunsaturates has backfired in many ways. The current adjustments, being recommended in the US by groups such as the National Academy of Sciences, replace the saturates with mono-unsaturates instead of with polyunsaturates and replace polyunsaturates with mono-unsaturates.

Early promoters of the anti - saturated fat ideas included companies such as Corn Products Company (CPC International), through a book written by Jeremiah Stamler in 1963, with the professional edition published in 1966 by CPC. This book took some of the earliest pejorative stabs at the tropical oils. In 1963, the only tropical fat or oil singled out as high in saturated fats was coconut oil. Palm oil had not entered the US food supply to any extent, had not become a commercial threat to the domestic oils and was not recognised in any of the early texts.

The editorial staff of Consumer Reports noted that "...in 1962...one writer observed, the average American now fears fat [saturated fat, that is] 'as he once feared witches"'.

In 1965, a representative of Procter & Gamble Pharmaceuticals told the American Heart Association to change its diet/heart statement to remove any reference to the trans fatty acids. This altered official document encouraged the consumption of partially hydrogenated fats. In the 1970s, this same Procter & Gamble employee served as nutrition chairman in two controlling positions for the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute's Lipid Research Clinic (LRC) trials and as director of one of the LRC centres. These LRC trials were the basis for the 1984 NIH Cholesterol Consensus Conference, which in turn spawned the National Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP). This program encourages consumption of margarine and partially hydrogenated fats, while admitting that trans should not be consumed in excess. The official NCEP document states that "coconut oil, palm oil, and palm kernel oil...should be avoided".

In 1966, the US Department of Agriculture documents on fats and oils talked about how unstable the unsaturated fats and oils were. There was no criticism of the saturated fats. That criticism of saturated fats was to come later to this agency when it came under the influence of the domestic edible fats and oils industry and when it developed the US Dietary Guidelines. These Dietary Guidelines became very anti - saturated fat and remain so to this day. Nevertheless, as we will learn later in my talk, there started some reversal of the anti - saturated fat stance in the works of this agency in 1998.

In the early 1970s, although a number of researchers were voicing concerns about the trans fats, the edible oil industry and the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) were engaging in a revolving-door exchange that would promote the increasing consumption of partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, condemn the saturated fats and hide the trans issue. As an example of this "oily" exchange, in 1971 the FDA's general counsel became president of the edible oil trade association, the Institute of Shortening and Edible Oils (ISEO), and he in turn was replaced at the FDA by a food lawyer who had represented the edible oil industry.

From that point on, the truth about any real effects of the dietary fats had to play catch-up. The American edible oil industry sponsored "information" to educate the public, and the natural dairy and animal fats industries were inept at countering any of that misinformation. Not being domestically grown in the US, coconut oil, palm oil and palm kernel oil were not around to defend themselves at that time. The government agencies responsible for disseminating information ignored those protesting "lone voices", and by the mid-1980s American food manufacturers and consumers had made major changes in their fats and oils usage - away from the safe, saturated fats and headlong into the problematic trans fats.

Dr Mary G. Enig holds an MS and PhD in Nutritional Sciences from the University of Maryland in the USA. She is a consulting nutritionist and biochemist of international renown and an expert in fats/oils analysis and metabolism, food chemistry and composition and nutrition and dietetics.

Dr Enig has many years of experience as a lecturer and has taught graduate-level courses for the Nutritional Sciences Program at the University of Maryland, where she was a Faculty Research Associate in the Lipids Research Group, Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, University of Maryland.

Dr Enig is the author of numerous journal publications, mainly on fats and oils research and nutrient/drug interactions. One of Dr Enig's recent research topics dealt with the development of a nutritional protocol for proposed clinical trials of a non-drug treatment for HIV/AIDS patients. Her articles, "The Oiling of America" and "Tragedy and Hype: The Third International Soy Symposium", written with nutritionist/ researcher Sally Fallon, were published in NEXUS 6/01 - 2 and 7/03 respectively.

I'm interested in any scientific data on the stuff, positive or negative.

I've read that if you correlate heart disease rates with consumption of coconut, high rates of consumption have a negative correlation with heart disease (that is, the more coconut in in the diet, the lower the rate of heart disease, statistically). A simple correlation can never be the whole story however, you'd need to conduct long-term, longitudinal, cross-sectional studies where other dietary and lifestyle factors were accounted for. My guess is that coconut is neither a very big negative or a very big positive, might just be effective in certain instances and counter-effective in others depending on factors the average person knows nothing about ...

[Ulysses G.]

I went on a raw food diet for about 6 months that was mostly raw fruit, vegetables, nuts and goats milk. I ate a LOT of avocado, durian and coconut every day which are all high fat foods.

I lost 60 pounds and lowered my cholesterol, however my triglicerides went up slightly. It seems from what I have read that doctors don't really know for sure if high triglicerides are bad, or not, but because they are associated with saturated fat, medical types tend to guess that they are not good for you.

[sbk]

Interesting. Obviously there's more than one side to this. The Wikipedia citations weren't selling anything. I'd like to learn more.

Actually, check out the comments tab in the Wiki article. It gave a different perspective on the source of the article and the information it presents.

And, well, as far as I am concerned, all I may have is anecdotal evidence but I tend to believe what I see with my own eyes. And what I see is people who have been eating a coconut diet their entire lives with very little outside "stress" or processed foods. People who eat and have eaten alot of fish (far more than pork, almost no beef, and alot of chicken). And they almost all have high blood pressure.

When I was 32 (afer living on Koh P for almost 10 years) and eating mostly the same diet as the locals, I had my cholestorol levels tested. The only good news was the high level of good cholesterol cancelled out the very high levels of bad cholesterol that I had.

[sabaijai]

Actually, check out the comments tab in the Wiki article. It gave a different perspective on the source of the article and the information it presents.

I did, and it seems the dissenters have already cleaned up the article. They made some good points (based on empirical, rather than anecdotal evidence, I might add!) But if you favour anecdotal, why bother to read comments by specialists?

And, well, as far as I am concerned, all I may have is anecdotal evidence but I tend to believe what I see with my own eyes. And what I see is people who have been eating a coconut diet their entire lives with very little outside "stress" or processed foods. People who eat and have eaten alot of fish (far more than pork, almost no beef, and alot of chicken). And they almost all have high blood pressure.

When I was 32 (afer living on Koh P for almost 10 years) and eating mostly the same diet as the locals, I had my cholestorol levels tested. The only good news was the high level of good cholesterol cancelled out the very high levels of bad cholesterol that I had.

How do you know the high rate of blood pressure among the locals (if indeed this is true) is due to consumption of coconut? I imagine they also eat fairly salty, ie, sodium-rich, foods if they're typical of Thai islanders elsewhere, and I imagine that most smoke cigarettes as well. My Thai father-in-law is a vegetarian, eats virtually no coconut, is quite slender yet has high blood pressure. He has smoked since he was a teenager.

Further on the anecdotal side, my wife is half Malay and her family and I all eat quite a bit of coconut. Last time I had my cholesterol levels checked the supervising doctor told me I had the lowest blood cholesterol (102) of any adult he'd yet tested. My blood pressure is also lower than average.

So much for my anecdotal evidence. We can all compare stories till the cows come home but without a larger sample, in which one's observations control for other lifestyle and genetic factors, it's virtually impossible to draw any meaningful correlations. Certainly it's fallacious to conclude that because people you know eat a lot of coconut, and have high blood pressure, that coconut consumption caused their high blood pressure.

According to DiagnoseMe.com:

Every study using natural, unprocessed coconut oil found a normalizing of cholesterol, blood sugar and blood pressure. This is also true of extra virgin olive oil, peanut oil and avocado oil.

I'd like more information on those studies however, simply stating this as fact isn't enough.

[sbk]

True, but I don't smoke don't drink and neither does my father-in-law or mother-in-law. None of us are overweight, and all of us lead fairly healthy active lives (ok, my father-in-law more active than me ).

Also, you are talking about natural unprocessed coconut oil. I am talking about a steady diet of everything coconut. Most of it cooked, including the oil.

I was curious if anyone had proof that it was because it was unprocessed and uncooked, and so far, I havent' really seen anything to really say unequivocally yes.

Also, a question, and this is an honest "I would like to know" question, if it is ok unprocessed, does it lose that Healthy factor once you cook with it?

[Ulysses G.]

Also, a question, and this is an honest "I would like to know" question, if it is ok unprocessed, does it lose that Healthy factor once you cook with it?

I want to know about this also. Most of the reading I've done suggests that it is healthy to cook with it as well as eating it raw, and some oils that have been recommended in these books are heat processsed, however some people - like Shola - seem to disagree about using heated oil.

What sbk says about the health of her family makes me wonder if the villagers are using hydronated coconut oil for cooking, or pure virgin coconut oil (if it is heated is it still "virgin"?)

[Khun Jean]

If heat is used in the process to extract the oil, the oil will be of lower quality.

Once it is extracted preferably 'cold' it keeps it qualities.

Of course when used for deep frying it will loose quality because impureties will be in the oil and the chemical makeup of the oil will change.

And anything that is used one time, is not called virgin anymore.

[sbk]

And anything that is used one time, is not called virgin anymore.

So, that applies to oil as well huh

[merlin1]

This is a very interesting and confusing discussion. No doubt because much of the "objective" science is being funded by someone with a vested interest.

I don't have access to the "truth" about coconut oil. My sense is that cold pressed may be healthful. However, what I would like to know if how bad for you is the usual way of consuming coconut in Thai food -- that is, in the form of curries which are heated. I don't know how bad for you this might be, but I have a feeling it's analogous to eating burgers back home. You can do it occasionally, but you probably wouldn't want to do it every day. But that's just a feeling.

I think studies of local people who eat coconut regularly are key. On the question of high blood pressure, this could be caused by any number of factors, most obviously a high salt diet. Thais are famous for eating salty food.

Heart attack rates are probably a better measure of the relative health benefits of certain saturated fats.

[sabaijai]

This is a very interesting and confusing discussion. No doubt because much of the "objective" science is being funded by someone with a vested interest.

I don't have access to the "truth" about coconut oil. My sense is that cold pressed may be healthful. However, what I would like to know if how bad for you is the usual way of consuming coconut in Thai food -- that is, in the form of curries which are heated. I don't know how bad for you this might be, but I have a feeling it's analogous to eating burgers back home. You can do it occasionally, but you probably wouldn't want to do it every day. But that's just a feeling.

I think studies of local people who eat coconut regularly are key. On the question of high blood pressure, this could be caused by any number of factors, most obviously a high salt diet. Thais are famous for eating salty food.

Heart attack rates are probably a better measure of the relative health benefits of certain saturated fats.

I've read that studies show a negative correlation between coconut consumption and heart disease (ie, high rates of coconut consumption do not correlate with high rates of heart disease). I'll see if I can dig up a reference and post here later.

[Sheryl]

Very interesting thread...and thanks SBK for the research posts. The Nurses health Study was one of the finest and most reliable every done, with a huge sample size followed lobngitudinally over deacdes. It's a real "gold standard" and its findings should be given serious attention.

I too am puzzled by the conflicting findings as well as the high incidence of heart disease among people who consume a great deal of coconut, e.g. not only Thais but Pacific Islanders. But referring back to the findings of the Nurse Health Study, which found trans fats to be the most harmful, I wonder what the most common cooking oils in Thailand contain? They are often not well labelled but seem to be some type of processed palm oil. If this contains trans fat, it could well be the culprit, since just about everything is stir fried....

My own impression is that the effects of saturated fats is not clear cut and may not be the same for all types. Certainly there are cultures which consume a lot of eggs & butter yet have low rates of heart disease. And the value of a food is not limited to its type of fat. Eggs for example have gotten a very bad rep, but they are very nutritious -- complete protein, B vitamins, and other micronutrients.