Speakers and amplifiers hooked up to AirPlay

[WorkingTourist]

I would like to have speakers placed in 4 audio zones in my condo.

The speakers should be connected to four amplifiers (one per zone).

Each amplifier will use an AirPort Express as audio source (Apple AirPlay).

There will be one router (presumably provided by the ISP) and each AirPort Express unit should be connected to this via ethernet.

Does the above make sense to you? And are you in Chiang Mai? If so, perhaps you are willing to help me? Or do you have a reference to someone you think can help here?

My dilemma is that I am not in Chiang Mai, and I have a condo under construction, so now is the best time to do cabling, but the developer assigned the interior architect, who adds a 15% management fee yet contracts a third party, which means slow communication with misunderstandings, 40% on top of the retail price (plus installation fee) and originally they wanted to do a Sonos system with NAS server, etc.

I contacted another company, they would like to sell me a Bose SoundTouch system, and they don’t do cabling themselves, but could recommend an electrician.

So it’s clear that if I want to have this done to my specification, I either need to go to Chiang Mai myself, or find someone who understand my requirements (as specified above) and have the time to involve themselves in this job.

My concern is just the cabling. If the contractor does not understand what I want, the chance of getting the proper cabling done is low. For example I mentioned to the interior architect the ethernet requirement (since amplifier audio source is from AirPort Express that should ideally be connected to ethernet), and she told me she would bring that up with the ISP later…

What I would like from you (if you have the time to help me) is that you:

1. Go to the condo and look around to get a feel for the rooms

2. Go to my contractor with floor plans and explain to them where speakers, amplifiers, and thus wall plugs should be (I will explain this to you and mark this on the floor plans).

3. The contractor will do a wiring plan.

4. For ethernet plugs, the developer’s architect (not the interior architect) have previously said that rooms will already have ethernet plugs, so confirm this is compatible with the wiring plan for speakers, and/or request necessary adjustments, to ensure that speaker input sockets are next to ethernet wall sockets, and that there are also power sockets.

Presumably developer can implement the wiring plan, if not, we’ll ask contractor for recommended electrician.

The contractor will do installation and setup of audio equipment.

The crucial step is really 2 and 4.

[narkeddiver]

Typically if you are using AirPlay you are playing music wirelessly from iPhone or iPad and you can get amplifiers that have AirPlay built in which means you can do away with the airport express and the requirement for the Ethernet sockets

[WorkingTourist]

Typically if you are using AirPlay you are playing music wirelessly from iPhone or iPad and you can get amplifiers that have AirPlay built in which means you can do away with the airport express and the requirement for the Ethernet sockets

True, though with a 200 sqm. condo, I prefer to rely on ethernet when possible, and also to have multiple hotspots, to ensure good signal throughout the place.

I may also need to hookup a USB printer to one of the units.

[WorkingTourist]

Where are the speakers? in-ceiling?

Also what amps are you going to be using?

I'm in the industry here in Thailand (in Phuket - although I live in Chiang Mai, we don't work up here) and I think you really need to contract a professional company to do the install, do proper diagrams and ensure that the wiring is run correctly - don't leave it up to the architect or builder, you need someone directly responsible, reporting to you. Else you will most likely be disappointed. So engage a custom A/V company.

It will be in-ceiling speakers, I haven’t decided on amps yet. I took this out to simplify the design, i.e. avoid being sold on some proprietary streaming system when I am already decided on AirPlay via AirPort Express, and also to avoid having another expensive item that they can inflate the price of.

I’m making another attempt with the contractor who is hired through the interior architect. This does seem like an A/V company that know their stuff, i.e. I get very good diagrams about what they intend to install, where, and how it’ll be wired up. My problem is partly that it has taken two months to still not get the exact design I want, and partly that they started by charging me more than 60% above store prices, but we’re now down to ~7% by the A/V company and another 10% by the interior architect (for the speakers, other items are still above retail price, e.g. speaker cables for the 9 speakers currently comes to about 35k baht).

As indicated above, I tried another A/V company, but that was the one that didn’t have their own electrician (to install cables), and who gave me a design which was very different than what I had described…

[WorkingTourist]

9 speakers? Do you have a stereo speaker being added to one of the pairs in the 4 zones?

Two zones each have a pair of stereo speakers with an additional mono speaker in the adjoining bathroom. I intend to add a stereo to mono converter for this third speaker and connect the speakers to an amplifier with A/B outputs so that inclusion of the bathrooms can be toggled.

Do let me know if this sounds like a bad idea (using stereo → mono converter). The bathrooms are not the most crucial sound listening rooms though. The one with the bathtub, I’ll probably mostly use the speaker for radio/podcasts, where the other bathroom is the one with washing machine and ironing board, so I could see myself wanting background music while doing these chores.

I know that there are single-point stereo speakers, which I have considered for the bathrooms, but I think it’s important to use the same speaker type, so that the sound image will be identical (when going between rooms and both A and B speakers are enabled).

I am using Bose 100F speakers throughout.

As for the 9th speaker; that one is all alone in the kitchen/living room audio zone. I don’t know if the interior architect or the A/V contractor placed it, but I have asked to have it removed and replaced with wall speakers in the living room, if they can sell them at retail price. Otherwise I’ll take care of this when I arrive.

The “problem” is that living room has double ceiling height and is connected with the kitchen, which has regular ceiling height. So they just added a single ceiling speaker in the kitchen. They should probably have added two, but I think it makes more sense to add wall speakers in the living room (primary listening room), and then just have the sound overflow into the open kitchen.

Doesn't sound like a difficult job, speaker wire down from ceilings to speaker wall plates - making sure it's located next to power and ethernet socket.

We charge from 100 baht a metre for speaker cable, we import from the USA, if that's of any help as a guideline.

Thanks, that is useful to know. The cable they’re using is Amphenol APH SPC-018. I found this online for 40 baht/meter, which sounded fairly cheap, but compared to your price, it sounds reasonable (and definitely I’m being overcharged on cabling).

I’m btw paying 8.700 baht (excl. VAT) for “wiring and installation”. At this price, is it reasonable to expect that materials are sold “at cost”? I’m also paying an extra 10% on everything for “management services”. I’m quite sure that goes to the interior architect.

[Benjie]

Hi,

I don't think it's ever reasonable to expect materials are sold at cost unless you supply them entirely by yourself and then get an entirely separate quote for installation.

10% is probably right for someone to Project Manage it but you should make them aware they are responsible for your satisfaction of how well the job is done. i.e they don't just get to add 10% and get free money.

That speaker cable is probably 60% of the size of the one we sell at 100 baht a metre, so I'd expect you should be paying 60 baht or so a metre.

I wouldn't use a mono speaker like that, will play havoc with the impedence on the amp if you only load one side and a stereo to mono converter just adds another potential thing to go wrong, better to add a pair of speakers or a single point stereo. Also the sound won't be anywhere near identical in a bathroom to a bedroom, so I wouldn't worry about matching speakers for Tone/Timbre.

Also be aware that those Bose speakers have a very low sensitivity, don't go very low in terms of bass and are primarily for commercial uses (shops, restaurants, supermarkets) you will need quite a big amp if you want them to go loud and I wouldn't imagine them being particularly musical. May I ask why you aren't using Bose's series of in-ceiling speakers meant for home use?

[WorkingTourist]

Hi,

I don't think it's ever reasonable to expect materials are sold at cost unless you supply them entirely by yourself and then get an entirely separate quote for installation.

10% is probably right for someone to Project Manage it but you should make them aware they are responsible for your satisfaction of how well the job is done. i.e they don't just get to add 10% and get free money.

That speaker cable is probably 60% of the size of the one we sell at 100 baht a metre, so I'd expect you should be paying 60 baht or so a metre.

I wouldn't use a mono speaker like that, will play havoc with the impedence on the amp if you only load one side and a stereo to mono converter just adds another potential thing to go wrong, better to add a pair of speakers or a single point stereo. Also the sound won't be anywhere near identical in a bathroom to a bedroom, so I wouldn't worry about matching speakers for Tone/Timbre.

Also be aware that those Bose speakers have a very low sensitivity, don't go very low in terms of bass and are primarily for commercial uses (shops, restaurants, supermarkets) you will need quite a big amp if you want them to go loud and I wouldn't imagine them being particularly musical. May I ask why you aren't using Bose's series of in-ceiling speakers meant for home use?

The first design I got was using Bose DS 40. I have no experience with in-ceiling speakers, but read (in Boses own materials) that these are for background music, so I asked to instead use the DS 100, which Bose describes as for foreground music. I didnt realise the entire DS series is for shops, and I was unable to find a local dealer where I could test them.

I now see that Bose 191 or 791 is the better choice for a home audio system, thanks!

Im hesitant to mix speakers for the same audio source based on prior experience having Jamo and B&W speakers in different rooms. Going from one to the other felt wrong enough for me to harmonise on B&W speakers.

I thought that a stereo → mono converter was a trivial thing, but if its not, then I should revise the use of mono speakers, be it a different brand single-point stereo speaker, or possibly squeezing in two speakers.

[Benjie]

You could always find a speaker supplier that has stereo pairs and single point stereo speakers so that the tone/timbre match.

Also if the company made such an error already in suggesting (or allowing you to choose) commercial speakers for your home, what else are they doing incorrectly? Feel free to PM me for any advice.