Former British soldier jailed for 50 years in Thailand for drug dealing

[huangnon]

^Only "crime" here is not being able to pay. Look at the other news stories on the front page about Thais getting off with literally murder...

[Johnny S]

He belong in prison no doubt ... but 50 years is maybe "overkill" - looks like a "Farang-sentence" .... A thai would never do get that ...

So how do you account for the Thai prisoners on Death Row for drugs offences?

for selling Ecstasy ... I doubt that, any links ?

[vr6onlysiam]

What about tobacco what about prescribed drugs

[stramash]

It is an utterly ludicrous sentence and reflects the unjust and archaic laws in this part of the world.

The very fact that he had a relatively low amount of a relatively harmless drug says he should have received a sentence proportionate to the crime.

My only caveat on this whole business is there is no report of the chemical breakdown of the tablets he had. If they were MDMA then they are low harm, less harmful than alcohol, tobacco, meth, heroin, valium etc etc

If however they were PMA or PMMA then we get into dodgy territory. Those are the 2 substances which have been responsible for the upsurge in deaths the last year or two. What these deaths say loudly is that it is time to change drug policy. If low harm substances such as cannabis, lsd and mdma were regulated, then quality would be controlled. This would also represent huge savings in court and jail costs and would stop criminalising young people for 'having fun'. Those released revenues could also be put into better rhab schemes for the drugs that are actually dangerous as well as education for young people. Not that we're going to see that discussion any time soon in Thailand, or even the Uk with the current government who can't even listen to their own experts' advice on classification. But it will come in the west, then gradually, but slowly spread further. The Portugeuese policies have proven that such progressive ideas actually work, and I can see it being widespread throughout Europe in the next decade - with the likely exception of the UK.

This poor sod knew he was running a risk - how much of that stupidity was down to recently losing his fiancee I have no idea - but I'm sure he never expected a ridiculous sentence of 50 years.

Someone said earlier, most crimes are committed under the influence of drugs. Well yes, that's true if you are including alcohol (rightfully) as a drug. Around half of all violent crime in the UK is committed under the influence of alcohol. It's when you get to crimes like theft where addictions like heroin or valium become factors.

Time to change our policies worldwide. Time to be progressive, sensible and listen to the experts.

Actually there is a Report on these drugs and there chemical breakdown. I saw it in one of the news articles.

In fact there were 2 Reports, and in which case the Defense will use in there Appeal Case. The Second Drug Report shows a much higher purity of illegal drugs, which the Defense is claiming to be tampering with evidence, and thus resulting in a stiffer penalty.

Yes, saw that fact this morning on another site. The fact that it was MDMA (never mind the tampering in the lab) means he wasn't selling the dangerous shit.

The whole MDMA vs PMA/PMMA scenario is the strongest argument yet for regulation.

Regular users should buy testing kits - easily available online.

We used to do testing for folk at major raves in the UK - but some idiots still took their pills even when they tested negative for any MDMA content.

Legalise and regulate the low harm substances, keep the high harm substances illegal. It's common sense to nearly all but the <deleted> <deleted> in government.

[stramash]

He belong in prison no doubt ... but 50 years is maybe "overkill" - looks like a "Farang-sentence" .... A thai would never do get that ...

So how do you account for the Thai prisoners on Death Row for drugs offences?

for selling Ecstasy ... I doubt that, any links ?

Last 2 executions in Thailand were for drugs - 2009 - but it was for $1.2 million of methamphetamine

[z42]

The thing with crime, and this includes drug dealing, is that nobody ever expects to get caught.

No matter what, this is excessive punishment. I don't know how long he will actually spend in jail, I suspect he could get transferred to a UK jail within 5 years, but the punishment here does not fit the crime.

British guys in Thai jails have a harder time than many other nationalities as they get no support from the UK government. There are charities that can help, but basically he will need to depend on help from friends and family outside for even basics like food and basic medicine etc.

Much as I dislike drug dealing, I feel sorry for this guy.

Would you still feel sorry for him if any of your family died because they were using drugs supplied by a dealer?

If there was no drug dealers, almost every type of crime would be reduced.

and AJAYDEE, you cannot say that bartenders can be compared with drug dealers, alcohol is not a drug if drunk in moderation.

OK Possum seeing as this is clearly trolling, am biting. Alcohol is a drug whether you have 1 beer or 50 beers.

Alcohol is the root cause of a LOT of societal issues because of its wide availability and aggressive selling strategies by the manufacturers. Even in my immediate family, my wife had an ex partner who beat her exclusively when he got drunk, also attacked his own 8 year old daughter when drunk because she tried to protect her mother. Then you have all the drink drivers (doesn't take a lot to impair driving ability) who kill and injure many.

And then you have all the health and productivity issues associated with drinking either in moderation or to excess. Even having a couple of beers every day is not going to benefit your health, productivity or bank balance is it.

Also if you've ever done ecstasy (MDMA) you'd know that if it is good quality then it is absolutely safe to take. Some people do die after taking tablets, but in most cases there has been a bad batch made and / or the stuff has been cut with something more dangerous because the authoritieshave made natural precursors almost impossible to source. The drug war is an abject failure. The only good thing it is used for is the bringing down of bloodthirsty cartel bosses who incidentally only got rich because of the inflated price of drugs due to prohibition. Fact is alcohol and tobacco ruin and end more lives than illegal drugs ever have.

I agree with you about alcohol, I have never touched it in my life, and never smoked. I have been brought up with alcohol, was married for twelve years to a drunk, have lost two brothers mainly because of drink and cigarettes, have worked most of my adult life as a professional musician with alcohol all around me.

I hate drunks and have no time for them. But what I am saying is not everyone who touches alcohol is a drunk, there is nothing wrong with it if it is not abused. I have Farang friends I have been seeing here in Thailand for years, who I meet regularly and have never seen them drunk. I suppose you are right in saying alcohol is a drug, but what I am saying is there are many people who drink alcohol and do not abuse it.

As for drugs, I am not qualified to talk about them and I only know what I read in the papers, like young people who fall into drugs and end up dead, and the drug dealers must take a lot of responsibility for that, and I do agree with your last sentence.

As for trolling, I have over 8000 posts here in Thaivisa, and if I was a troll in any way, I would have been found out long before now.

Balanced and fair comments, fair play to you. Like you know many people who drink alcohol and not abuse it, I know many people in the west who use illegal drugs and maintain very decent and productive lifestyles, raise wonderful families and who generally are an asset to society. A probably small percentage of drug users are addicts who roam the streets robbing and plundering to finance their next fix. It's just when these people do get locked up for such a thing it makes the papers and people read it, getting a completely inaccurate picture of the drug problem.

Ecstasy isn't in any way good for you, but it's certainly not a million times more harmful than legal drugs and medicines. In moderation and in the right circumstances it does a job. Anybody who would choose to take ecstasy daily would simply not be able to function. The war failed but there is too much at stake in blanket legalization or decriminalization. But working towards a solution is what's needed, not power hungry, xenophobic judges dishing out eye wateringly harsh sentences.

[rijit]

The thing with crime, and this includes drug dealing, is that nobody ever expects to get caught.

No matter what, this is excessive punishment. I don't know how long he will actually spend in jail, I suspect he could get transferred to a UK jail within 5 years, but the punishment here does not fit the crime.

British guys in Thai jails have a harder time than many other nationalities as they get no support from the UK government. There are charities that can help, but basically he will need to depend on help from friends and family outside for even basics like food and basic medicine etc.

Much as I dislike drug dealing, I feel sorry for this guy.

Would you still feel sorry for him if any of your family died because they were using drugs supplied by a dealer?

If there was no drug dealers, almost every type of crime would be reduced.

and AJAYDEE, you cannot say that bartenders can be compared with drug dealers, alcohol is not a drug if drunk in moderation.

OK Possum seeing as this is clearly trolling, am biting. Alcohol is a drug whether you have 1 beer or 50 beers.

Alcohol is the root cause of a LOT of societal issues because of its wide availability and aggressive selling strategies by the manufacturers. Even in my immediate family, my wife had an ex partner who beat her exclusively when he got drunk, also attacked his own 8 year old daughter when drunk because she tried to protect her mother. Then you have all the drink drivers (doesn't take a lot to impair driving ability) who kill and injure many.

And then you have all the health and productivity issues associated with drinking either in moderation or to excess. Even having a couple of beers every day is not going to benefit your health, productivity or bank balance is it.

Also if you've ever done ecstasy (MDMA) you'd know that if it is good quality then it is absolutely safe to take. Some people do die after taking tablets, but in most cases there has been a bad batch made and / or the stuff has been cut with something more dangerous because the authoritieshave made natural precursors almost impossible to source. The drug war is an abject failure. The only good thing it is used for is the bringing down of bloodthirsty cartel bosses who incidentally only got rich because of the inflated price of drugs due to prohibition. Fact is alcohol and tobacco ruin and end more lives than illegal drugs ever have.

I agree with you about alcohol, I have never touched it in my life, and never smoked. I have been brought up with alcohol, was married for twelve years to a drunk, have lost two brothers mainly because of drink and cigarettes, have worked most of my adult life as a professional musician with alcohol all around me.

I hate drunks and have no time for them. But what I am saying is not everyone who touches alcohol is a drunk, there is nothing wrong with it if it is not abused. I have Farang friends I have been seeing here in Thailand for years, who I meet regularly and have never seen them drunk. I suppose you are right in saying alcohol is a drug, but what I am saying is there are many people who drink alcohol and do not abuse it.

As for drugs, I am not qualified to talk about them and I only know what I read in the papers, like young people who fall into drugs and end up dead, and the drug dealers must take a lot of responsibility for that, and I do agree with your last sentence.

As for trolling, I have over 8000 posts here in Thaivisa, and if I was a troll in any way, I would have been found out long before now.

Balanced and fair comments, fair play to you. Like you know many people who drink alcohol and not abuse it, I know many people in the west who use illegal drugs and maintain very decent and productive lifestyles, raise wonderful families and who generally are an asset to society. A probably small percentage of drug users are addicts who roam the streets robbing and plundering to finance their next fix. It's just when these people do get locked up for such a thing it makes the papers and people read it, getting a completely inaccurate picture of the drug problem.

Ecstasy isn't in any way good for you, but it's certainly not a million times more harmful than legal drugs and medicines. In moderation and in the right circumstances it does a job. Anybody who would choose to take ecstasy daily would simply not be able to function. The war failed but there is too much at stake in blanket legalization or decriminalization. But working towards a solution is what's needed, not power hungry, xenophobic judges dishing out eye wateringly harsh sentences.

Mate its just ignorance, the blind leading the blind. The east is just following the wests 20 year old direction. With no updates cos that would make their policy wrong and

u know asians,,, cant do wrong!!

rij

[rijit]

The irony is orgonised legalisation would probably lift some of the worlds poorest people out of poverty, u'de think the respective govs would see that but no they prefer out right war against their own. To keep who hapi ? Basically imo, the west.

rijit

Edited July 2, 2015 by rijit

[stramash]

The irony is orgonised legalisation would probably lift some of the worlds poorest people out of poverty, u'de think the respective govs would see that but no they prefer out right war against their own. To keep who hapi ? Basically imo, the west.

rijit

More the brewers and tobacco companies. Though I know for a fact that when legalisation was being considered by Thatcher back in the 80s, Benson and Hedges looked at how to market marijuana cigarettes.

If you regulated/legalised low harm drugs, you'd free up a huge amount of money, never mind the tax raised (Just look at how Colorado has benefited)

More money from tax for hospitals and schools. More money for good rehab schemes and education for kids on drugs. Police time and resources freed up to pursue the hard drug suppliers. Less people being criminalised for using something less harmful than booze. Taking revenue away from organised crime. And yes, as you say, potential income at points of production (though that would mainly be weed, and that could even be grown on industrial scale in England so it might not be as great as we think)

[stramash]

Ecstasy isn't in any way good for you, but it's certainly not a million times more harmful than legal drugs and medicines. In moderation and in the right circumstances it does a job. Anybody who would choose to take ecstasy daily would simply not be able to function. The war failed but there is too much at stake in blanket legalization or decriminalization. But working towards a solution is what's needed, not power hungry, xenophobic judges dishing out eye wateringly harsh sentences.

Mate its just ignorance, the blind leading the blind. The east is just following the wests 20 year old direction. With no updates cos that would make their policy wrong and

u know asians,,, cant do wrong!!

rij

Even at the height of the rave days, I don't know anyone that took it daily. It was, for the vast majority of users, a weekend drug, so no different (and less potential violence) than a night in the pub.

But there are now a lot of studies that show it is 'good' for you - at least therapeutically for PTSD, depression sufferers and similar. We're now seeing (rediscovering) that many of these pyschoactive substances can have huge benefits if used correctly.

[rijit]

Ive aligned myself to every which way believing in a total ban to free legalisation of them Lets not get carried away, the cons in alot of signifivant ways atm still visibaly outway the pro's. But bottom line, .ever mind the legislation is seems the demand.is here to stay

rijit

Edited July 2, 2015 by rijit

[Blackfox]

I popped a lot back in the day and I'm fine.

As a matter of fact, all the guys and girls I partied with are fine also. They, as I, are leading happy and successful lives.

In this case, if he thought he was getting an offshore gig in SE Asia with no prior experience, he's got no idea, as with his old man who by all accounts footed the cost of his training.

Secondly, if he and his old man are playing in Pattaya, his son then <deleted> up, and the family can't raise the THB to get him sorted, then they are just <deleted> dumb and stupid.

Good luck for many days ahead in Klong Prem…you're gonna need it.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Blackfox

[stramash]

Ive aligned myself to every which way believing in a total ban to free legalisation of them Lets not get carried away, the cons in alot of signifivant ways atm still visibaly outway the pro's. But bottom line, .ever mind the legislation is seems the demand.is here to stay

rijit

I'd never go for all out legalisation of all drugs

Regulation is the way to go: LSD, cannabis, mushrooms and MDMA for sure. Cocaine at a very hard push.

Keep heroin, meth and amphetamine completely off the books

It makes total sense.

Just look at the amazing success of Portugal.

[Bernard Flint]

I have seen a Thai guy selling drugs for the last couple of years on Samui, always on the same patch, but mysteriously he never gets caught.

Even more reason for a non thai not to sell drugs, sound like common sense to me????

[khundon]

50 years in a cell with 30+ guys all vying to be his proctologist is going to keep him on his toes.

Drug dealers are scum but 10 years would be a more suitable sentence. If he can survive that, then pack him off back home and blacklist the idiot.

[Bernard Flint]

The guys father is a massive kunt, a lot and tried to bully people. Fact is his so. Was the wrong'un here

This is his old man on the right yeah.

Which bar in Pattaya????

[Don Mega]

The guys father is a massive kunt, a lot and tried to bully people. Fact is his so. Was the wrong'un here

This is his old man on the right yeah.

Which bar in Pattaya????

That was TQ2 back in 2007.

[phrodan]

I bet he didn't have a work permit either.

[nev]

The guys father is a massive kunt, a lot and tried to bully people. Fact is his so. Was the wrong'un here

This is his old man on the right yeah.

Which bar in Pattaya????

That was TQ2 back in 2007.

So his son first came to pattaya as a 18 year old kid, to young to be getting hooked on the pattaya gogo scene.

[boomerangutang]

I've never understood the idea that adults need protection from their own enjoyment or even their own self-destruction. If someone wants to smoke something that grows out the ground, or inject it into themselves, or swallow a compound of chemicals made in lab somewhere, it's none of my business and shouldn't be anyone else's.

So how about when some out of their skull junkie runs berserk with an axe and you're in their way or a yabba'd up bus or lorry driver crushes your bike or car? None of your business then?

I think Rumblecat is referring to doing things which don't harm others.

The War on Drugs has always amped up the worst effects of illegal drugs. So everyone is supposed to believe that - and it's been a highly successful brainwashing campaign. Just as much as the general public, so too the law-makers and enforcers have been successfully brainwashed - in to believing that every use of any illegal drug is bad bad bad, and harmful.

If they were doing a campaign against cars, they would say every car is a violent killer, every time it's turned on.

With everything an enlightened person does: the basic tenent is: DO NO HARM

Unfortunately, very few enlightened people exist, over the age of 14. The older the average person gets, the more encumbered he/she becomes with societal indoctrination. All the 'hang 'em high' crowd posting herein - have been successfully brainwashed by society to hate all recreational drugs except alcohol - and also to think that every use of a non-alc rec. drug is horrible and hurtful and destructive. Ignorance knows no bounds.

A car only becomes a violent killer when driven by someone, for instance, incapable or impaired through drug use.

To suggest the car itself is a violent killer smacks of distorted thinking at best or excessive drug use at worst.

You missed my point, re; the car analogy. Let me try to state it again: If the same people who are pushing the War on Drugs were dealing with cars, they would say all cars are completely dangerous all the time. Here's why: the people who criminalize all recreational drugs (except alcohol) are determined to demonize all those other drugs, including pot and hemp. An even bigger irony is: those criminalizing people (politicians, judges, cops) don't have first hand familiarity with those recreational drugs. They're only familiar with alcohol, and (surprise!) they make excuses for drunks.

If you had a surgeon cutting you open, you would want that person to know something about human anatomy, wouldn't you?

How many times do we read of a crime in Thailand, and the excuse is embedded: "Oh, he was drunk, so he didn't really know what he was doing." Almost every day. .....as if being drunk is an excuse for a more lenient response to a criminal's actions. We're supposed to laugh at drunks. Here's a heads up to all you establishmentarianists who also don't really know what recreational drugs are about: THEY ARE MOST OFTEN USED IN MODERATION. It's only the most extreme screw-ups that society wants you to hear about - so the establishment can paint all rec. drug users (other than alchies) as harmful weirdos bent on destruction.

[Franky Bear]

Ecstasy isn't in any way good for you, but it's certainly not a million times more harmful than legal drugs and medicines. In moderation and in the right circumstances it does a job. Anybody who would choose to take ecstasy daily would simply not be able to function. The war failed but there is too much at stake in blanket legalization or decriminalization. But working towards a solution is what's needed, not power hungry, xenophobic judges dishing out eye wateringly harsh sentences.

Mate its just ignorance, the blind leading the blind. The east is just following the wests 20 year old direction. With no updates cos that would make their policy wrong and

u know asians,,, cant do wrong!!

rij

Even at the height of the rave days, I don't know anyone that took it daily. It was, for the vast majority of users, a weekend drug, so no different (and less potential violence) than a night in the pub.

But there are now a lot of studies that show it is 'good' for you - at least therapeutically for PTSD, depression sufferers and similar. We're now seeing (rediscovering) that many of these pyschoactive substances can have huge benefits if used correctly.

Agree

As I said previously I love E. Took it a lot during 90's. Only at weekends. Made me a better person and had some of the best times of my life on it

[Franky Bear]

I popped a lot back in the day and I'm fine.

As a matter of fact, all the guys and girls I partied with are fine also. They, as I, are leading happy and successful lives.

In this case, if he thought he was getting an offshore gig in SE Asia with no prior experience, he's got no idea, as with his old man who by all accounts footed the cost of his training.

Secondly, if he and his old man are playing in Pattaya, his son then <deleted> up, and the family can't raise the THB to get him sorted, then they are just <deleted> dumb and stupid.

Good luck for many days ahead in Klong Prem…you're gonna need it.

Best post in this thread mate 10/10

[boomerangutang]

Plus, there's a lot more money involved - when criminalizing small time druggies. As mentioned in dozens of posts in this thread: the judge and legal system in Thailand thrives on pay-outs in cases like this. They hear of a farang getting busted for drugs and they salivate like Pavlov's dogs, knowing some of them will hit the jackpot. Like the authorities who got to split up the $30,000 fine a farang recently paid to stay out of prison - for just crashing a motorbike while tipsy, and a few people got some bruises.

[Rumblecat]

I've never understood the idea that adults need protection from their own enjoyment or even their own self-destruction. If someone wants to smoke something that grows out the ground, or inject it into themselves, or swallow a compound of chemicals made in lab somewhere, it's none of my business and shouldn't be anyone else's.

So how about when some out of their skull junkie runs berserk with an axe and you're in their way or a yabba'd up bus or lorry driver crushes your bike or car? None of your business then?

What does that have to do with MDMA??

I'm replying to a post that suggests drug abuse is nobody's business. No mention of MDMA.

Aptly wants to ban alcohol though and stop people from drinking it, even in the privacy of their own homes, so we're dealing with a hardcore prohibitionist here- I doubt there's going to be much common ground (and check how 'drug use' suddenly becomes 'drug abuse'... )

[Rumblecat]

I've never understood the idea that adults need protection from their own enjoyment or even their own self-destruction. If someone wants to smoke something that grows out the ground, or inject it into themselves, or swallow a compound of chemicals made in lab somewhere, it's none of my business and shouldn't be anyone else's.

So how about when some out of their skull junkie runs berserk with an axe and you're in their way or a yabba'd up bus or lorry driver crushes your bike or car? None of your business then?

What does that have to do with MDMA??

I'm replying to a post that suggests drug abuse is nobody's business. No mention of MDMA.

Apetley wants to ban alcohol though and make it illegal for people to drink beer or wine, even in the privacy of their own homes, so we're dealing with a hardcore prohibitionist here- I doubt there's going to be much common ground (and check how 'drug use' suddenly becomes 'drug abuse'... )

[Neurath]

If you cant do the time dont do the crime.

Anybody dealing drugs is dealing DEATH. scum of the earth.

Drug dealers are no more responsible for the irresponsible behavior of drug takers than are gun dealers for the irresponsible behavior of gun owners.

All you accomplish by criminalizing drug ownership is to leave drugs in the hands of criminals. And they will get hold of drugs anyway. The best approach is to deal with the mental health issues of those who use drugs irresponsibly. It's the only sensible approach.

[apetley]

I've never understood the idea that adults need protection from their own enjoyment or even their own self-destruction. If someone wants to smoke something that grows out the ground, or inject it into themselves, or swallow a compound of chemicals made in lab somewhere, it's none of my business and shouldn't be anyone else's.

So how about when some out of their skull junkie runs berserk with an axe and you're in their way or a yabba'd up bus or lorry driver crushes your bike or car? None of your business then?

What does that have to do with MDMA??

I'm replying to a post that suggests drug abuse is nobody's business. No mention of MDMA.

Aptly wants to ban alcohol though and stop people from drinking it, even in the privacy of their own homes, so we're dealing with a hardcore prohibitionist here- I doubt there's going to be much common ground (and check how 'drug use' suddenly becomes 'drug abuse'... )

When you take enough of any drug to impair judgement and or ability then that is abuse not use.

I speak as somebody who worked for the police in the UK so I have seen more than my fair share of the damage drugs can do.

As I said before we shall disagree on this so I'm out of here.

Edited July 2, 2015 by apetley

[Si Thea01]

"E" isn't particularly dangerous, addictive or destructive. Most truly civilized countries wouldn't be too concerned with this crime.

No, the letter "E" is not but Ecstasy or MDMA is, so pray tell, what are your qualifications to proffer such delusionary falsehoods or are you a troll just out to see how many jolly's he can get? And no, I am not a medical expert but have seen enough of this synthetic drug and what it does to the users and eventually addicts to tell others they should never touch it. If you truly believe what you are proffering then I suggest you speak with police, paramedics, emergency room staff and doctors, who have to deal with the aftermath of people taking this not particularly dangerous, addictive or destructive drug.

Not particularly dangerous, addictive or destructive. Who in the hell are you trying to kid? So it's not dangerous despite it being proven that it interferes with the brain's essential chemical functions, which, in turn, can scramble the body's temperature signals to the brain, possibly causing hypothermia, dehydration, or heat stroke, especially dangerous for users who exert themselves while dancing. . It can also produce other harmful side effects, such as high blood pressure, blurred vision, fainting, muscle cramps, confusion and panic attacks.

Not addictive or destructive? Even first-time users have shown after-effects such as depression, anxiety, aggressiveness, paranoia, and sleep disorders, and may become psychologically and physically addicted to the drug. And don't most users generally mix this with alcohol, thus escalating the harmful effects of the drug.? Now with people suffering seizures, strokes and even dying through use of this drug, wouldn't you call that destructive?

I don't know if your brain has been frazzled through using this drug or you're just a foolish person propagating totally misleading information on an open forum, something you should be severely criticised for. There are many are words that could your actions but I will keep it civil for now but please if you have evidence that can counter what I have put forward, then please educate me. And lastly, which are the truly civilised countries you are referring to that would not concern themselves with this crime. Go and check the statistics before you post anymore inane remarks because you certainly do not know what you are talking about on this subject.

[Neurath]

"E" isn't particularly dangerous, addictive or destructive. Most truly civilized countries wouldn't be too concerned with this crime.

It can also produce other harmful side effects, such as high blood pressure, blurred vision, fainting, muscle cramps, confusion and panic attacks.

Not addictive or destructive? Even first-time users have shown after-effects such as depression, anxiety, aggressiveness, paranoia, and sleep disorders, and may become psychologically and physically addicted [......] And don't most users generally mix this with alcohol, thus escalating the harmful effects

Sounds like the effect of Thai Visa on many.

[Rumblecat]

I've never understood the idea that adults need protection from their own enjoyment or even their own self-destruction. If someone wants to smoke something that grows out the ground, or inject it into themselves, or swallow a compound of chemicals made in lab somewhere, it's none of my business and shouldn't be anyone else's.

So how about when some out of their skull junkie runs berserk with an axe and you're in their way or a yabba'd up bus or lorry driver crushes your bike or car? None of your business then?

What does that have to do with MDMA??

I'm replying to a post that suggests drug abuse is nobody's business. No mention of MDMA.

Aptly wants to ban alcohol though and stop people from drinking it, even in the privacy of their own homes, so we're dealing with a hardcore prohibitionist here- I doubt there's going to be much common ground (and check how 'drug use' suddenly becomes 'drug abuse'... )

When you take enough of any drug to impair judgement and or ability then that is abuse not use.

I speak as somebody who worked for the police in the UK so I have seen more than my fair share of the damage drugs can do.

As I said before we shall disagree on this so I'm out of here.

Uh-huh, no I understand you. Alcohol is responsible for a lot of horrendous domestic violence (and random acts of violence and abuse in public), and what happens when a drunk bus or lorry driver crushes your bike or car? I can see why you'd be against it. And as someone who has worked with the police you'll be well aware of the damage alcohol does (I used to work in a hospital so I've seen it first hand, many times over).

Personally I think denying the majority of society freedoms because of the actions of tiny minority is a slippery slope, but I get where you're coming from and I appreciate that you're not cherry picking, you know, like saying we should ban MDMA or cocaine but we shouldn't ban alcohol, because that would just be totally disingenuous.