Koh Tao: Men accused of killing Brit backpackers plead with victims' families for justice

[Jonmarleesco]

Barking up the wrong tree there.

The scapegoating is not being arranged by those families or for the benefit of those families.

May as well pray to Buddha

The families, however, apparently supported the Thai police investigation's outcome; though based on what grounds heaven knows.

[berybert]

I pray the families of the desists do not become accessories to the locking up or killing of the two innocent boys by being silent.

They must do a little do-diligence and find the truth before being quiet during this trial.

Enough wrong doing already!!!

How many times does one have to repeat oneself for people to get the message? So please pay attention.

The Parents have already said that they have seen the evidence and that the Thai Police and Prosecutor have a strong case against the accused. What would you have them do now. Beg the Police to let these murders of their Children off for humanitarian reasons.

How humane where they to Victoria, when they murdered her male friend, who was trying to protect her, in front of her eyes? Then afterwards they violently raped her in her vagina and then in her anus? If this was not enough, they decide to entertain themselves but sticking a club or the end of a Garden Hoe inside of Victoria's Private Parts. (The Condom with her DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside). Then when they were finally bored with tormenting her, they bashed heard beautiful head in so badly that her own Parents could hardly recognize her.

So I ask you now. How Humane where they to her to deserve such royal treatment and sympathy from us now? That you, a decent person, should feel sorry for them now, when all evidence points to there guilt? When nobody here has provided one shed of evidence to prove they are innocent.

If they are innocent they will go free. If they are guilty they will either face Lethal Injection, or Life in Prison. Either one will keep them off the streets so they cannot do this again.

Someone was upset you were called a troll. I find your posts mainly child like. Then you throw in things like Victoria and prove those that call you a troll correct. What was the man who got killed called ? Fred or James ?

[Manbing]

Barking up the wrong tree there.

The scapegoating is not being arranged by those families or for the benefit of those families.

May as well pray to Buddha

The families, however, apparently supported the Thai police investigation's outcome; though based on what grounds heaven knows.

But begging for their help is as useful as asking the TV posters for a whip round to stump up for their defenseman costs.

[berybert]

I pray the families of the desists do not become accessories to the locking up or killing of the two innocent boys by being silent.

They must do a little do-diligence and find the truth before being quiet during this trial.

Enough wrong doing already!!!

How many times does one have to repeat oneself for people to get the message? So please pay attention.

The Parents have already said that they have seen the evidence and that the Thai Police and Prosecutor have a strong case against the accused. What would you have them do now. Beg the Police to let these murders of their Children off for humanitarian reasons.

How humane where they to Victoria, when they murdered her male friend, who was trying to protect her, in front of her eyes? Then afterwards they violently raped her in her vagina and then in her anus? If this was not enough, they decide to entertain themselves but sticking a club or the end of a Garden Hoe inside of Victoria's Private Parts. (The Condom with her DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside). Then when they were finally bored with tormenting her, they bashed heard beautiful head in so badly that her own Parents could hardly recognize her.

So I ask you now. How Humane where they to her to deserve such royal treatment and sympathy from us now? That you, a decent person, should feel sorry for them now, when all evidence points to there guilt? When nobody here has provided one shed of evidence to prove they are innocent.

If they are innocent they will go free. If they are guilty they will either face Lethal Injection, or Life in Prison. Either one will keep them off the streets so they cannot do this again.

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

I believe my post which you attached yours to, ended by me saying that if they are Innocent, they will go Free. If they are guilty they will either get Lethal Injection or Life In Prison. Does this suggest to you that I am organizing a Lynch Mob as they are already guilty before trail?

Yes! I have my opinion. Just like many who post here think they are innocent, I tend to differ and I think they are guilty. I have stated many times that if someone can show me some proof or evidence to say they are innocent, I would listen and then perhaps change my mind. But so far nobody has done that. Just more Bla!Bla!Bla! Like you for instance.

No! You did not state that you thought they are innocent. But then you never attacked anyone else's post that said they were. Only mine! That to me says enough to tell me which side of the fence you sit on. Which personally I don't really care.

I seem to recall many months ago you had no opinion one way or the other as to whether they were guilty or not. You then got so upset with people saying they didn't believe they did it, that you decided they had done it. So rather than taking any notice of any proof you have seen, which is none, Your reason for guilt was to be different.

How very mature.

[007cableguy]

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

I believe my post which you attached yours to, ended by me saying that if they are Innocent, they will go Free. If they are guilty they will either get Lethal Injection or Life In Prison. Does this suggest to you that I am organizing a Lynch Mob as they are already guilty before trail?

Yes! I have my opinion. Just like many who post here think they are innocent, I tend to differ and I think they are guilty. I have stated many times that if someone can show me some proof or evidence to say they are innocent, I would listen and then perhaps change my mind. But so far nobody has done that. Just more Bla!Bla!Bla! Like you for instance.

No! You did not state that you thought they are innocent. But then you never attacked anyone else's post that said they were. Only mine! That to me says enough to tell me which side of the fence you sit on. Which personally I don't really care.

Again your making assumptions, now saying you know what side of the fence I sit on? What makes you think there are only 2 sides? Guilty or not guilty? Is that it, but how to you get to make a decision on that? Let the judges decide on the evidence presented?

No I'm on firmly on the side of justice and ensuring the right poeple are convicted. But to do that you need a fair and transparent trial and judicial procedure, that has not happened nor does it look like its going to happen, if thats the case then nobody will be satisfied with the judges decision no matter what it is other than those who have no concern for human rights.

But then you don't care so I'll leave it there with you

What do you consider a fare trial then? LA Law on TV, or the real world?

Thailand doesn't have a Jury System, but instead a 3 Judge Panel, is that fare? The Prosecution doesn't have to show the defense their evidence here, is that fare? Thailand has the Death Penalty, is that fare? This is the Law in Thailand and fare or not, it is still their Law and were the crime was committed. It has also been many of my real life experiences where things happened to me that wasn't fare.

So then what is a fare trail for you? To move it to the UK? Perhaps, but that isn't the law here. So no matter what, you probably will never see a Trail you would call fare or expect back home, because it isn't back home.

But just because things aren't the same, it doesn't prove one way or the other to the accused innocents or guilt. I personally would like to see all the evidence come up on both sides. There is enough doubt to drop the Confessions in the court and have the trail it based on Evidence only. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised at the last minutes to see a Guilty Plea.

I would love to see a Fair trial but that's never going to happen sadly!

As I for you making light of horrific murders I find sickening!...............Seems to be aliG alter ego!

[TheKnave]

If these two innocent men are convicted then there is no justice here in Thailand. It will mean that the real scum sucking murdering rapist runt who's low class criminal family that pay the police will never be convicted.

My Thai wife says that there are lots of people on death island who know exactly what really happened but are too scared to speak up. Hopefully there will be at least one suicidal person who will be at the trial to tell the truth.

I am sick of hearing stories of everyday people getting away with murder because they can pay the police off.

I know a Thai/Chinese man here who killed someone while driving drunk and paid the police and one of his staff to do the jail time on his behalf. This kind of thing stinks. One day things will change and then people like this will be made to face their past with devastating consequences.

Americans won't understand this but we abolished the death penalty for 2 very good reasons.

1. It was not a deterrent

2. Many peopke were proved innocent after they had been hanged

1. Why, pray tell, won't 'the Americans' understand this? Are we a monolith?

2. Who is 'we'? You and the mouse in your pocket? Or are we to believe Brits are also monolithic?

This gratuitous American-bashing is just getting tedious. Why not grow up?

[AleG]

All the gossip mongers have achieved is to turn a simple case into a circus

Is there one shred of concrete evidence that says these guys could be innocent?............ Even the John Wayne Gacy said it wasn't me...........most do

Seems to me the police have plenty to say they are guilty but according to the doubters they rigged the dna planted her phone put blood from the girl on the T shirt of one of the accused, planted a cigarette butt showed them where the hoe was in front of hundreds of witnesses none of who cried foul.

They did all that in front of hundreds of investigating police from Bangkok

Worth noting that the same people that have encouraged those rumors are the same people that constantly ask for money to fight the injustice those rumors allege to.

[GOLDBUGGY]

berybert,

Quite on the contrary. There is a preponderance of evidence that all point to the accused. It has all been brought up here several times in the past, only to be argued by many speaking about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It would have to be "Grand" as there theory does not only involve the Local Police planting some evidence, but includes some of the Highest Ranking Police Officials in this Land, and several different Labs falsifying evidence.

And for what I may ask? To accuse some poor Migrant Workers? This Grand Conspiracy Theory even extends to the Head Man of the Village paying the police to let his son go free. Someone even came out with a figure of 112 M Baht. But yet it has been reported by the Police and Media that his Son wasn't even on the island during the time of the murders nor could he have been. He was off island in school where many of his Classmates are willing to testify to this. So now all of them would also have to have been paid off in this Grand Conspiracy Theory as well. Not accepting perhaps the truth for a second, and that his Son had a reason for not being charged, which is called a "Good Alibi".

Even if this Grand Conspiracy Theory actually existed, which I don't believe for a second, why not just say his Son has a Good Alibi, so it can't be him, and collect the 112 M? Why try to accuse 2 innocent men knowing this High Profile Case will drag on afterwards. Why not just say that the DNA evidence collected from Hannah did not match anyone on island. That the perpetrators must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way at the present time to narrow down who this (these) people are. That is believable isn't it? Which also puts an end to this whole story.

In the past, the Media have uncovered many Conspiracies. What comes to mind for me is the greatest Cover-up of all time, "Water Gate", which resulted in the most Powerful Man in the World, the President on the United States, to step down, and put some others in powerful positions in prison. Uncovering Conspiracies helps sell newspapers.

So don't you think it is odd, with all this Media attention in this case, and in all this time, that not one Newspaper Reported this Grand Conspiracy Theory? That they can uncover something like the Water Gate but yet here they can't find even one villager to come forward and say he saw the murders, and it wasn't them. Or One Lab Guy, saying he was forced to falsify evidence, or one Police Man, to say he planted evidence. What a story that would make, and please don't think for a second they would be afraid to do this. If they can expose the President of United States, they are not afraid to expose anyone.

The Media haven't exposed any Grand Conspiracy Theory not because they are shy and afraid to talk to people, not because they are afraid of being arrested for asking too many questions, but only because this Grand Conspiracy Theory doesn't exist. People can talk to them and not be in fear as they won't use there real names. Happens all the time. The Media have ways to hide this better than any Police Department can find.

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

It was also pointed out by the Police very early on that they intended to send a separate sample to Singapore to be tested. Since then it has never been confirmed, or denied, this was or was not done. So we will have to wait for the Trail to find this out for sure I guess. But to me it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and trouble, just to accuse 2 Migrant Workers, when they could have washed their hands from this case ages ago.

So yes, I do believe they are guilty. But please keep in mind I am not the Judge at this Trial who has to make the important decision. I am just expressing my honest opinion here, which last I heard I was allowed to do. .

[GOLDBUGGY]

All the gossip mongers have achieved is to turn a simple case into a circus

Is there one shred of concrete evidence that says these guys could be innocent?............ Even the John Wayne Gacy said it wasn't me...........most do

Seems to me the police have plenty to say they are guilty but according to the doubters they rigged the dna planted her phone put blood from the girl on the T shirt of one of the accused, planted a cigarette butt showed them where the hoe was in front of hundreds of witnesses none of who cried foul.

They did all that in front of hundreds of investigating police from Bangkok

Worth noting that the same people that have encouraged those rumors are the same people that constantly ask for money to fight the injustice those rumors allege to.

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

[stephenterry]

Goldbuggy post 121 in response to Berybert

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

Actually, it's pretty easy to provide false information in order to convict the B2. All the RTP need to do is to report that the DNA found on the victim exactly matches the B2 DNA. (Please note reports have stated there are over 300 DNA reports and 900 pages of evidence that the defence have to sift through).

As this 'evidence' has not been validated, verified, or independently tested it's not yet authenticated. While they don't have to permit the defence to carry out an authentication process, if this 'evidence' was 'perfect' there really wouldn't be any defence and 'everyone' would be satisfied. Logically, then, there must be a certain doubt regarding the veracity of this 'evidence', IMO. But this is Thailand - arrogance and face are prime motivators.

And, as the defence (if permitted) won't have time to carry out independent testing during this trial they cannot challenge it, only the collection and storage process. Thus the outcome of this trial could convict the B2, but (if necessary) there's the Appeals court, and eventually the Supreme court once the defence can authenticate the DNA evidence and can confirm or challenge the prosecution's assertions.

For anyone on here to jump to the opinion that the B2 are guilty re the DNA match, is only hearing the prosecution's assertions. As the defence has not released their case to accept or challenge this, it is premature, IMO. And that would apply to any other evidence provided by the prosecution.

[thailandchilli]

All the gossip mongers have achieved is to turn a simple case into a circus

Is there one shred of concrete evidence that says these guys could be innocent?............ Even the John Wayne Gacy said it wasn't me...........most do

Seems to me the police have plenty to say they are guilty but according to the doubters they rigged the dna planted her phone put blood from the girl on the T shirt of one of the accused, planted a cigarette butt showed them where the hoe was in front of hundreds of witnesses none of who cried foul.

They did all that in front of hundreds of investigating police from Bangkok

Worth noting that the same people that have encouraged those rumors are the same people that constantly ask for money to fight the injustice those rumors allege to.

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

SICK, we can all see how you regard the defense and the rights of the accused. Have you noticed the accounts that are regularly published by Andy Hall on the spending of the funds

[GOLDBUGGY]

Goldbuggy post 121 in response to Berybert

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

Actually, it's pretty easy to provide false information in order to convict the B2. All the RTP need to do is to report that the DNA found on the victim exactly matches the B2 DNA. (Please note reports have stated there are over 300 DNA reports and 900 pages of evidence that the defence have to sift through).

As this 'evidence' has not been validated, verified, or independently tested it's not yet authenticated. While they don't have to permit the defence to carry out an authentication process, if this 'evidence' was 'perfect' there really wouldn't be any defence and 'everyone' would be satisfied. Logically, then, there must be a certain doubt regarding the veracity of this 'evidence', IMO. But this is Thailand - arrogance and face are prime motivators.

And, as the defence (if permitted) won't have time to carry out independent testing during this trial they cannot challenge it, only the collection and storage process. Thus the outcome of this trial could convict the B2, but (if necessary) there's the Appeals court, and eventually the Supreme court once the defence can authenticate the DNA evidence and can confirm or challenge the prosecution's assertions.

For anyone on here to jump to the opinion that the B2 are guilty re the DNA match, is only hearing the prosecution's assertions. As the defence has not released their case to accept or challenge this, it is premature, IMO. And that would apply to any other evidence provided by the prosecution.

Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?

First, a sample is taken from a Doctor as soon as the victim reports the rape, in the presence of 2 Police Officers, as witnesses. The sample is then sealed in a special container where if open the seal would show it was broken. It is then taken to the lab for analysis, with signatures all along the way. Do you mean to tell me that all this Lab Tech has to do now is throw that sample in the garbage, and just say there was no match, so end of story. No Way!

There would be several people involved in this analysis and many procedures they would have to follow, like the police had to, to keep it from being tampered with or producing falsified results. They would also have to produce the results, and thus why 3 papers to one analysis. Including the procedure they followed and witnesses, to sign on. The Lab Tech just doesn't get a piece of scrap paper and say the DNA Matches, and pass it on. He has to show proof of that under strict conditions and procedures.

But even under these strict conditions and procedures it is possible to falsify DNA Results. If intentional this carriers a very stiff penalty. So I question why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men, when they didn't have to arrest anyone. Which is the huge part you left out of my post.

It is not up to the Prosecutor or Legal Defense to verify anything. It is up to the Judges to decide if this is Evidence and whether or not they will allow it as such in their court, or if independent testing is going to be allowed or required. I highly doubt the Judges will ask for independent testing if the procedure where carried out correctly, and especially if independent testing was already carried out in Singapore.

You are watching too much TV Son.

[sartoric]

All the gossip mongers have achieved is to turn a simple case into a circus

Is there one shred of concrete evidence that says these guys could be innocent?............ Even the John Wayne Gacy said it wasn't me...........most do

Seems to me the police have plenty to say they are guilty but according to the doubters they rigged the dna planted her phone put blood from the girl on the T shirt of one of the accused, planted a cigarette butt showed them where the hoe was in front of hundreds of witnesses none of who cried foul.

They did all that in front of hundreds of investigating police from Bangkok

Worth noting that the same people that have encouraged those rumors are the same people that constantly ask for money to fight the injustice those rumors allege to.

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

I understand that the defence lawyers are working pro bono, ie. no fees, the fundraising is sought to cover costs, like transport to Samui for those lawyers.

[stephenterry]

Goldbuggy post 121 in response to Berybert

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

Actually, it's pretty easy to provide false information in order to convict the B2. All the RTP need to do is to report that the DNA found on the victim exactly matches the B2 DNA. (Please note reports have stated there are over 300 DNA reports and 900 pages of evidence that the defence have to sift through).

As this 'evidence' has not been validated, verified, or independently tested it's not yet authenticated. While they don't have to permit the defence to carry out an authentication process, if this 'evidence' was 'perfect' there really wouldn't be any defence and 'everyone' would be satisfied. Logically, then, there must be a certain doubt regarding the veracity of this 'evidence', IMO. But this is Thailand - arrogance and face are prime motivators.

And, as the defence (if permitted) won't have time to carry out independent testing during this trial they cannot challenge it, only the collection and storage process. Thus the outcome of this trial could convict the B2, but (if necessary) there's the Appeals court, and eventually the Supreme court once the defence can authenticate the DNA evidence and can confirm or challenge the prosecution's assertions.

For anyone on here to jump to the opinion that the B2 are guilty re the DNA match, is only hearing the prosecution's assertions. As the defence has not released their case to accept or challenge this, it is premature, IMO. And that would apply to any other evidence provided by the prosecution.

Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?

First, a sample is taken from a Doctor as soon as the victim reports the rape, in the presence of 2 Police Officers, as witnesses. The sample is then sealed in a special container where if open the seal would show it was broken. It is then taken to the lab for analysis, with signatures all along the way. Do you mean to tell me that all this Lab Tech has to do now is throw that sample in the garbage, and just say there was no match, so end of story. No Way!

There would be several people involved in this analysis and many procedures they would have to follow, like the police had to, to keep it from being tampered with or producing falsified results. They would also have to produce the results, and thus why 3 papers to one analysis. Including the procedure they followed and witnesses, to sign on. The Lab Tech just doesn't get a piece of scrap paper and say the DNA Matches, and pass it on. He has to show proof of that under strict conditions and procedures.

But even under these strict conditions and procedures it is possible to falsify DNA Results. If intentional this carriers a very stiff penalty. So I question why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men, when they didn't have to arrest anyone. Which is the huge part you left out of my post.

It is not up to the Prosecutor or Legal Defense to verify anything. It is up to the Judges to decide if this is Evidence and whether or not they will allow it as such in their court, or if independent testing is going to be allowed or required. I highly doubt the Judges will ask for independent testing if the procedure where carried out correctly, and especially if independent testing was already carried out in Singapore.

You are watching too much TV Son.

This is Thailand, not America. The DNA science here is not on a par with the US, UK, or other highly developed countries, that's why Singapore was mentioned after the FBI proposal was declined.

Of course the court will accept the evidence if the defence cannot challenge it, and as I've stated above, it's not been authenticated, which is a right the defence has to carry out independent testing. That is, independent from the RTP. Forget Singapore, nothing went there - all samples were spread around hospitals in BKK and CM.

Why would someone attempt to convict 2 innocent men, when they didn't have to arrest anyone? The RTP were under pressure from above (especially when the media splashed it about) to solve this case in case it damaged tourism. They HAD to find suspects. They HAD to convict to show the world that the island was safe. An unsolved crime was a no-no proposition. You really ought to bring yourself up to speed, instead of making spurious arrogant and insulting comments.

[mmh8]

 

berybert,

Quite on the contrary. There is a preponderance of evidence that all point to the accused. It has all been brought up here several times in the past, only to be argued by many speaking about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It would have to be "Grand" as there theory does not only involve the Local Police planting some evidence, but includes some of the Highest Ranking Police Officials in this Land, and several different Labs falsifying evidence.

And for what I may ask? To accuse some poor Migrant Workers? This Grand Conspiracy Theory even extends to the Head Man of the Village paying the police to let his son go free. Someone even came out with a figure of 112 M Baht. But yet it has been reported by the Police and Media that his Son wasn't even on the island during the time of the murders nor could he have been. He was off island in school where many of his Classmates are willing to testify to this. So now all of them would also have to have been paid off in this Grand Conspiracy Theory as well. Not accepting perhaps the truth for a second, and that his Son had a reason for not being charged, which is called a "Good Alibi".

Even if this Grand Conspiracy Theory actually existed, which I don't believe for a second, why not just say his Son has a Good Alibi, so it can't be him, and collect the 112 M? Why try to accuse 2 innocent men knowing this High Profile Case will drag on afterwards. Why not just say that the DNA evidence collected from Hannah did not match anyone on island. That the perpetrators must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way at the present time to narrow down who this (these) people are. That is believable isn't it? Which also puts an end to this whole story.

In the past, the Media have uncovered many Conspiracies. What comes to mind for me is the greatest Cover-up of all time, "Water Gate", which resulted in the most Powerful Man in the World, the President on the United States, to step down, and put some others in powerful positions in prison. Uncovering Conspiracies helps sell newspapers.

So don't you think it is odd, with all this Media attention in this case, and in all this time, that not one Newspaper Reported this Grand Conspiracy Theory? That they can uncover something like the Water Gate but yet here they can't find even one villager to come forward and say he saw the murders, and it wasn't them. Or One Lab Guy, saying he was forced to falsify evidence, or one Police Man, to say he planted evidence. What a story that would make, and please don't think for a second they would be afraid to do this. If they can expose the President of United States, they are not afraid to expose anyone.

The Media haven't exposed any Grand Conspiracy Theory not because they are shy and afraid to talk to people, not because they are afraid of being arrested for asking too many questions, but only because this Grand Conspiracy Theory doesn't exist. People can talk to them and not be in fear as they won't use there real names. Happens all the time. The Media have ways to hide this better than any Police Department can find.

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

It was also pointed out by the Police very early on that they intended to send a separate sample to Singapore to be tested. Since then it has never been confirmed, or denied, this was or was not done. So we will have to wait for the Trail to find this out for sure I guess. But to me it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and trouble, just to accuse 2 Migrant Workers, when they could have washed their hands from this case ages ago.

So yes, I do believe they are guilty. But please keep in mind I am not the Judge at this Trial who has to make the important decision. I am just expressing my honest opinion here, which last I heard I was allowed to do. .

  quote from goldbuggy

In the case of Thailand I would always keep in mind the liklihood of innocence before guilt. This is the ocuntry where in September 2014 a man was imprisoned without trial on the basis of the words of a translator. This all hapopened because he was mugged apparently.

In the case of the 2 burmians they happened to be illegal workers - undocumented, thus guilty for whate ever -

reports from the others workers of beatings and burning with scolding water

no evidence ( though apparently photo evidence of torture is around) though the crime scene was destroyed by incompetant investigators, reports of police offering bribes for false witness.

on the reinaction ( a highly signifncant Thai process) they needed a lot of instructions on what to do and where to go, for instance both pointing in different directions for the press photo

hearsay ?, perhaps, but there is precedent

I would like to see you on the receiving end of this type of investigation to see if justice is truly served,

[Jai Dee]

There is a lot of petty bickering and flaming going on again.

One OTT flame post has been removed from this thread.

If the bickering and flaming continues, this topic will be closed and posting suspensions awarded to offenders.

Please be civil to each other.

[enufsaid]

Thailand is corrupt & unfortunately unless the families of the victims have private investigators on the case the truth will never come about. If I was the parent of one of the victims I'd be sitting in that bar, day in & day out, watching & waiting. burmese culture & this kind of violence really don't go together, this is the act of one very evil & arrogant man who wanted what someone else had & had enough money to pay people/person off.

[stephenterry]

Thailand is corrupt & unfortunately unless the families of the victims have private investigators on the case the truth will never come about. If I was the parent of one of the victims I'd be sitting in that bar, day in & day out, watching & waiting. burmese culture & this kind of violence really don't go together, this is the act of one very evil & arrogant man who wanted what someone else had & had enough money to pay people/person off.

It's more likely to be a gang attack, initially, which then turned into an act of violent rage. Given a close-knit community where locals know what's going on, I have little doubt that had the B2 been involved, they would have been marched into police HQ the first day. That's if, they hadn't already fled the island. A wall of silence is quite credible if homes, livelihoods, and families would be threatened by powerful people who are above the law.

Put yourself in honest-thai's shoes. Given normal thai behaviour of 'it's not my business' would you squeal to save the lives of migrants you care little about, if at all?

[Johnny S]

the numbers of foreigners in this country being killed in crimes and accidents is insane. And what The Thais do not know or do not care to know is each one of these murders are broadcast world wide. No matter how hard they try and advertise their country as a holiday destination. Its a futile effort. The Thais are killing their selves really is what they are doing. In a big way. They seem to be their own worst enemy.........

And this is why they only expect 28 Million Tourist this year.

Get Real!

In the real World only you and Mrs. Wristband Popcorn dream of 28,8 million tourists ... People will definately find other countries where they are not extorted by the infamous RTP or killed by some maniac minvan driver or son of a hi-so ... Say goodbye to the golden goose, you killed it your self in so many ways ...

[MockingJay]

Goldbuggy post 121 in response to Berybert

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

Actually, it's pretty easy to provide false information in order to convict the B2. All the RTP need to do is to report that the DNA found on the victim exactly matches the B2 DNA. (Please note reports have stated there are over 300 DNA reports and 900 pages of evidence that the defence have to sift through).

As this 'evidence' has not been validated, verified, or independently tested it's not yet authenticated. While they don't have to permit the defence to carry out an authentication process, if this 'evidence' was 'perfect' there really wouldn't be any defence and 'everyone' would be satisfied. Logically, then, there must be a certain doubt regarding the veracity of this 'evidence', IMO. But this is Thailand - arrogance and face are prime motivators.

And, as the defence (if permitted) won't have time to carry out independent testing during this trial they cannot challenge it, only the collection and storage process. Thus the outcome of this trial could convict the B2, but (if necessary) there's the Appeals court, and eventually the Supreme court once the defence can authenticate the DNA evidence and can confirm or challenge the prosecution's assertions.

For anyone on here to jump to the opinion that the B2 are guilty re the DNA match, is only hearing the prosecution's assertions. As the defence has not released their case to accept or challenge this, it is premature, IMO. And that would apply to any other evidence provided by the prosecution.

The DNA samples were stored initially in the fridge of the mafia headman, father of one of the accused. No doubt that the samples have been tempered with, plus were both Burmese in the front line of DNA testing on the island and results from that very mass sample collection were negative. In addition, nobody can say for sure if Hannah might not have had consensual intercourse with one or more men before the murder occured, plus is there the possibility of post mortem rape. All the other odds and f##kups in the investigation you virtually ignore with your repeated DNA babble. You fail to ask the right questions!

[Baerboxer]

These two boys are headed towards the rocks of disaster and all decent folk feel a deep concern for them .... and how to avert that no one seems to know.

The murder of those two young decent holidaymakers was done in a manner of extreme hate and violence ...... Where would or how would those two Burmese boys develop motivation like that?

However if someone had an argument with the young lady and Face was felt to be lost ..... no more smiles just hate.

Just saying!

No idea what the character of these two Myanmar men are like. They could be totally innocent pattsies or psychos for all I know. Haven't met them - have you?

We had a nice young sweet maid from that country. Her mum worked locally, for many years and was very nice. The maid thieved from us, was caught, forgiven and given a second chance, with support. Thieved again and caught again. Her mum and family were really shamed and sent her back to Myanmar. Since then, we found she thieved some things of special value. If I showed you a picture of her playing with my disabled son you would think she was lovely.

Appearances can be very deceptive. Just saying!

Thieving is not in the same league as murdering with extreme violence.

No shit Sherlock!

The point was appearances can be and often are very deceptive. Guilt or innocence can not be determined by appearance. Calling the accused "boys" etc is attempting to suggest they are too young to commit murder. They are men. They might have been on booze, drugs, both or just lost it; or they might be totally innocent victims of a set up; or some how involved but not on their own.

We simply don't know - but how they "appear" won't tell.

[lvr181]

So much bickering and none of it will help or hinder the accused.

[Jai Dee]

One flame post has been removed from this thread and the offending member awarded a 7 day holiday.

[GOLDBUGGY]

All the gossip mongers have achieved is to turn a simple case into a circus

Is there one shred of concrete evidence that says these guys could be innocent?............ Even the John Wayne Gacy said it wasn't me...........most do

Seems to me the police have plenty to say they are guilty but according to the doubters they rigged the dna planted her phone put blood from the girl on the T shirt of one of the accused, planted a cigarette butt showed them where the hoe was in front of hundreds of witnesses none of who cried foul.

They did all that in front of hundreds of investigating police from Bangkok

Worth noting that the same people that have encouraged those rumors are the same people that constantly ask for money to fight the injustice those rumors allege to.

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

SICK, we can all see how you regard the defense and the rights of the accused. Have you noticed the accounts that are regularly published by Andy Hall on the spending of the funds

No! I have seen that. Seems to me this is as good as place as any for you to Link that for all of us to see.

Quite surprised he has time for that, considering he is fighting his own prosecution case in Thailand right now.

[thailandchilli]

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

SICK, we can all see how you regard the defense and the rights of the accused. Have you noticed the accounts that are regularly published by Andy Hall on the spending of the funds

No! I have seen that. Seems to me this is as good as place as any for you to Link that for all of us to see.

Quite surprised he has time for that, considering he is fighting his own prosecution case in Thailand right now.

Seems to me you can find your own links so long as it fits with your bizarre opinions but fail to find anything else. If your so surprised Andy has time to fight for justice on the behalf of other people when he himself is the victim of persecution by draconian libel laws in Thailand then why not email him and ask him, his contact details are widely available on the internet, go on give it a try. Heres your starter for 10:

For further enquiries on the Koh Tao murder case or MWRN’s fundraiser, please contact:

1. Andy Hall MWRN International Affairs Advisor

[email protected] +66(0)846 119209 (English/Thai)

2. Nakhon Chompuchat Head Koh Tao Case Defence Lawyer

[email protected] +66(0)818 473086 (English/Thai)

3. Ko Sein Htay MWRN President

[email protected] +95(0)949278500 / +66 (0)94 679 2478 (Myanmar/Thai)

All funds raised have been deposited into a Thai bank account specifically and jointly opened for the case by Andy Hall and Nakhon Chompuchat, the two main advisors to MWRN’s fund:

Account Name: Mr. Andrew Hall and Mr. Nakhon Chompuchat;

Account Number: 405-870484-8;

Bank: Siam Commercial Bank Public Company Ltd; Bank Branch: 5280 Terminal 21;

Bank SWIFT code: SICOTHBK).

Summary reports of spending and case assistance updates are reviewable by all, available on request and are published regularly on MWRN’s Facebook site and other social media.

[GOLDBUGGY]

All the gossip mongers have achieved is to turn a simple case into a circus

Is there one shred of concrete evidence that says these guys could be innocent?............ Even the John Wayne Gacy said it wasn't me...........most do

Seems to me the police have plenty to say they are guilty but according to the doubters they rigged the dna planted her phone put blood from the girl on the T shirt of one of the accused, planted a cigarette butt showed them where the hoe was in front of hundreds of witnesses none of who cried foul.

They did all that in front of hundreds of investigating police from Bangkok

Worth noting that the same people that have encouraged those rumors are the same people that constantly ask for money to fight the injustice those rumors allege to.

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

I understand that the defence lawyers are working pro bono, ie. no fees, the fundraising is sought to cover costs, like transport to Samui for those lawyers.

Yeah! I also understood that these TV Evangelists only wanted money each week to pay for the cost of there TV Broadcast. That if their viewers didn't send in a donation now they may not be their next week to bring the "Word of God".

That was until TV Evangelist Jim Baker got caught with too many fingers in the pie, after a sex scandal with a young mistress ( Jessica Hahn) in the late 1980's. He paid her about $300,000 to keep quiet, and himself a 3.4 Million Dollar Bonus from donated funds. But the word got out anyway and he was convicted on 24 counts of fraud and given a 45 year sentence.

What isn't well know, as they did not take out full page adds in the local newspapers, or have a big promotion program, was that Hannah's Parents also had a Fund Raiser, so they could send their family of 6 (or was it 4) to Thailand to attend these trials for a couple of weeks. They even had a Tea & Bake Sale at their local church to help do that.

Odd that in less than two weeks they had all the money they needed to send a family of six to Thailand for weeks, then thanked everyone and stopped asking for funds, were these guys still do. I mean odd that with there full page adds, and promotions, with constant talk on Facebook, but still thy can't raise the funds to send a few lawyers to Thailand. Go Figure?

Were they seeking money just to send the Lawyers here on a regular flight, or were they planning on buying their own jet?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Goldbuggy post 121 in response to Berybert

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

Actually, it's pretty easy to provide false information in order to convict the B2. All the RTP need to do is to report that the DNA found on the victim exactly matches the B2 DNA. (Please note reports have stated there are over 300 DNA reports and 900 pages of evidence that the defence have to sift through).

As this 'evidence' has not been validated, verified, or independently tested it's not yet authenticated. While they don't have to permit the defence to carry out an authentication process, if this 'evidence' was 'perfect' there really wouldn't be any defence and 'everyone' would be satisfied. Logically, then, there must be a certain doubt regarding the veracity of this 'evidence', IMO. But this is Thailand - arrogance and face are prime motivators.

And, as the defence (if permitted) won't have time to carry out independent testing during this trial they cannot challenge it, only the collection and storage process. Thus the outcome of this trial could convict the B2, but (if necessary) there's the Appeals court, and eventually the Supreme court once the defence can authenticate the DNA evidence and can confirm or challenge the prosecution's assertions.

For anyone on here to jump to the opinion that the B2 are guilty re the DNA match, is only hearing the prosecution's assertions. As the defence has not released their case to accept or challenge this, it is premature, IMO. And that would apply to any other evidence provided by the prosecution.

Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?

First, a sample is taken from a Doctor as soon as the victim reports the rape, in the presence of 2 Police Officers, as witnesses. The sample is then sealed in a special container where if open the seal would show it was broken. It is then taken to the lab for analysis, with signatures all along the way. Do you mean to tell me that all this Lab Tech has to do now is throw that sample in the garbage, and just say there was no match, so end of story. No Way!

There would be several people involved in this analysis and many procedures they would have to follow, like the police had to, to keep it from being tampered with or producing falsified results. They would also have to produce the results, and thus why 3 papers to one analysis. Including the procedure they followed and witnesses, to sign on. The Lab Tech just doesn't get a piece of scrap paper and say the DNA Matches, and pass it on. He has to show proof of that under strict conditions and procedures.

But even under these strict conditions and procedures it is possible to falsify DNA Results. If intentional this carriers a very stiff penalty. So I question why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men, when they didn't have to arrest anyone. Which is the huge part you left out of my post.

It is not up to the Prosecutor or Legal Defense to verify anything. It is up to the Judges to decide if this is Evidence and whether or not they will allow it as such in their court, or if independent testing is going to be allowed or required. I highly doubt the Judges will ask for independent testing if the procedure where carried out correctly, and especially if independent testing was already carried out in Singapore.

You are watching too much TV Son.

This is Thailand, not America. The DNA science here is not on a par with the US, UK, or other highly developed countries, that's why Singapore was mentioned after the FBI proposal was declined.

Of course the court will accept the evidence if the defence cannot challenge it, and as I've stated above, it's not been authenticated, which is a right the defence has to carry out independent testing. That is, independent from the RTP. Forget Singapore, nothing went there - all samples were spread around hospitals in BKK and CM.

Why would someone attempt to convict 2 innocent men, when they didn't have to arrest anyone? The RTP were under pressure from above (especially when the media splashed it about) to solve this case in case it damaged tourism. They HAD to find suspects. They HAD to convict to show the world that the island was safe. An unsolved crime was a no-no proposition. You really ought to bring yourself up to speed, instead of making spurious arrogant and insulting comments.

So are you saying that since they found what you call "scapegoats" that they are not under pressure anymore or now? I tend to differ. They are under far more pressure now than if they would have buried this all under a rug ages ago. Look how many people here are complaining about it and the trail hasn't even started yet.

Never sent the Lab Samples to Singapore you say? Then Prove It! I will wait for your Link that shows that.

But I won't hold my breath for long as I already know it is just another case of more Bla!Bla!Bla!

[thailandchilli]

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

I understand that the defence lawyers are working pro bono, ie. no fees, the fundraising is sought to cover costs, like transport to Samui for those lawyers.

Yeah! I also understood that these TV Evangelists only wanted money each week to pay for the cost of there TV Broadcast. That if their viewers didn't send in a donation now they may not be their next week to bring the "Word of God".

That was until TV Evangelist Jim Baker got caught with too many fingers in the pie, after a sex scandal with a young mistress ( Jessica Hahn) in the late 1980's. He paid her about $300,000 to keep quiet, and himself a 3.4 Million Dollar Bonus from donated funds. But the word got out anyway and he was convicted on 24 counts of fraud and given a 45 year sentence.

What isn't well know, as they did not take out full page adds in the local newspapers, or have a big promotion program, was that Hannah's Parents also had a Fund Raiser, so they could send their family of 6 (or was it 4) to Thailand to attend these trials for a couple of weeks. They even had a Tea & Bake Sale at their local church to help do that.

Odd that in less than two weeks they had all the money they needed to send a family of six to Thailand for weeks, then thanked everyone and stopped asking for funds, were these guys still do. I mean odd that with there full page adds, and promotions, with constant talk on Facebook, but still thy can't raise the funds to send a few lawyers to Thailand. Go Figure?

Were they seeking money just to send the Lawyers here on a regular flight, or were they planning on buying their own jet?

Maybe not well known in your world but well known enough for Andy Hall to promote the appeal by the parents on his facebook page and also CSILA on their facebook page, try looking it up, it may get you somewhere before fantasizing. Oh look, even promoted by the BBC along with countless other media outlets http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-32022526

[GOLDBUGGY]

 

berybert,

Quite on the contrary. There is a preponderance of evidence that all point to the accused. It has all been brought up here several times in the past, only to be argued by many speaking about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It would have to be "Grand" as there theory does not only involve the Local Police planting some evidence, but includes some of the Highest Ranking Police Officials in this Land, and several different Labs falsifying evidence.

And for what I may ask? To accuse some poor Migrant Workers? This Grand Conspiracy Theory even extends to the Head Man of the Village paying the police to let his son go free. Someone even came out with a figure of 112 M Baht. But yet it has been reported by the Police and Media that his Son wasn't even on the island during the time of the murders nor could he have been. He was off island in school where many of his Classmates are willing to testify to this. So now all of them would also have to have been paid off in this Grand Conspiracy Theory as well. Not accepting perhaps the truth for a second, and that his Son had a reason for not being charged, which is called a "Good Alibi".

Even if this Grand Conspiracy Theory actually existed, which I don't believe for a second, why not just say his Son has a Good Alibi, so it can't be him, and collect the 112 M? Why try to accuse 2 innocent men knowing this High Profile Case will drag on afterwards. Why not just say that the DNA evidence collected from Hannah did not match anyone on island. That the perpetrators must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way at the present time to narrow down who this (these) people are. That is believable isn't it? Which also puts an end to this whole story.

In the past, the Media have uncovered many Conspiracies. What comes to mind for me is the greatest Cover-up of all time, "Water Gate", which resulted in the most Powerful Man in the World, the President on the United States, to step down, and put some others in powerful positions in prison. Uncovering Conspiracies helps sell newspapers.

So don't you think it is odd, with all this Media attention in this case, and in all this time, that not one Newspaper Reported this Grand Conspiracy Theory? That they can uncover something like the Water Gate but yet here they can't find even one villager to come forward and say he saw the murders, and it wasn't them. Or One Lab Guy, saying he was forced to falsify evidence, or one Police Man, to say he planted evidence. What a story that would make, and please don't think for a second they would be afraid to do this. If they can expose the President of United States, they are not afraid to expose anyone.

The Media haven't exposed any Grand Conspiracy Theory not because they are shy and afraid to talk to people, not because they are afraid of being arrested for asking too many questions, but only because this Grand Conspiracy Theory doesn't exist. People can talk to them and not be in fear as they won't use there real names. Happens all the time. The Media have ways to hide this better than any Police Department can find.

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

It was also pointed out by the Police very early on that they intended to send a separate sample to Singapore to be tested. Since then it has never been confirmed, or denied, this was or was not done. So we will have to wait for the Trail to find this out for sure I guess. But to me it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and trouble, just to accuse 2 Migrant Workers, when they could have washed their hands from this case ages ago.

So yes, I do believe they are guilty. But please keep in mind I am not the Judge at this Trial who has to make the important decision. I am just expressing my honest opinion here, which last I heard I was allowed to do. .

  quote from goldbuggy

In the case of Thailand I would always keep in mind the liklihood of innocence before guilt. This is the ocuntry where in September 2014 a man was imprisoned without trial on the basis of the words of a translator. This all hapopened because he was mugged apparently.

In the case of the 2 burmians they happened to be illegal workers - undocumented, thus guilty for whate ever -

reports from the others workers of beatings and burning with scolding water

no evidence ( though apparently photo evidence of torture is around) though the crime scene was destroyed by incompetant investigators, reports of police offering bribes for false witness.

on the reinaction ( a highly signifncant Thai process) they needed a lot of instructions on what to do and where to go, for instance both pointing in different directions for the press photo

hearsay ?, perhaps, but there is precedent

I would like to see you on the receiving end of this type of investigation to see if justice is truly served,

No Link to any of this? Is this the latest Bar Room talk?

Sure injustice can happen in any country. Not too long ago in Canada 2 Police Officers killed a Polish Immigrant in the Vancouver Airport. He was being held for questioning but since he did not speak English they needed to find a Polish Translator first. While waiting he got very upset and started to throw some chairs around. The Police were called and they stunned him with a Stun Gun, and he died. Believe me, this did not go over very well in Canada, Poland, or the rest of the World.

As to the destruction of the Crime Scene this is purely Hog Wash and Dribble. It was not destroyed! It was just not made as secure as it should have been. This is not the same as destroyed.

As to police taking bribes, tampering with witnesses, giving instruction during the reenactment, this doesn't even qualify as Hearsay. More like Bar Room Gossip at best. Unless of course you have proof any of this and can Link it, which again I highly doubt.

[sartoric]

All the gossip mongers have achieved is to turn a simple case into a circus

Is there one shred of concrete evidence that says these guys could be innocent?............ Even the John Wayne Gacy said it wasn't me...........most do

Seems to me the police have plenty to say they are guilty but according to the doubters they rigged the dna planted her phone put blood from the girl on the T shirt of one of the accused, planted a cigarette butt showed them where the hoe was in front of hundreds of witnesses none of who cried foul.

They did all that in front of hundreds of investigating police from Bangkok

Worth noting that the same people that have encouraged those rumors are the same people that constantly ask for money to fight the injustice those rumors allege to.

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

I understand that the defence lawyers are working pro bono, ie. no fees, the fundraising is sought to cover costs, like transport to Samui for those lawyers.

Yeah! I also understood that these TV Evangelists only wanted money each week to pay for the cost of there TV Broadcast. That if their viewers didn't send in a donation now they may not be their next week to bring the "Word of God".

That was until TV Evangelist Jim Baker got caught with too many fingers in the pie, after a sex scandal with a young mistress ( Jessica Hahn) in the late 1980's. He paid her about $300,000 to keep quiet, and himself a 3.4 Million Dollar Bonus from donated funds. But the word got out anyway and he was convicted on 24 counts of fraud and given a 45 year sentence.

What isn't well know, as they did not take out full page adds in the local newspapers, or have a big promotion program, was that Hannah's Parents also had a Fund Raiser, so they could send their family of 6 (or was it 4) to Thailand to attend these trials for a couple of weeks. They even had a Tea & Bake Sale at their local church to help do that.

Odd that in less than two weeks they had all the money they needed to send a family of six to Thailand for weeks, then thanked everyone and stopped asking for funds, were these guys still do. I mean odd that with there full page adds, and promotions, with constant talk on Facebook, but still thy can't raise the funds to send a few lawyers to Thailand. Go Figure?

Were they seeking money just to send the Lawyers here on a regular flight, or were they planning on buying their own jet?

Your comparison of American TV Evangelists is bizarre. The MWRN is raising funds to enable as fair a trial as possible. The lawyers are based in Bangkok, so I was talking about local flights. If you didn't know that, I would suggest you haven't been following this saga too closely.

The victims families fund raising efforts were publicised. Perhaps the meeting of targets has something to do with the relative wealth of the contributors.