Lite Beer Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Great stuff. I know absolutely nothing but what do you think you will be able to run off this? Lights, Fridges, Water Pumps, TVs, Computers, Aircon, Fans. Or just some of the above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinBoy2 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Almost done! Checking final continuity, and the last panels on the roof and being aligned. Almost time to turn on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issangeorge Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Its a 5KW single phase systemthat does not answer my question. i have some figures for Central Europe and would like to compare them with those of Thailand. a pricewise investment comparison is not possible because especially in my home country photovoltaic installations are heavily subsidised. In my area at 16.533 longitude they say I can expect 4.49 hours productive sunlight per day, check out thus site http://www.ecowho.com/tools/solar_power_calculator.php That means I would generate about 22.45kWh per day on a 5kW system. Isaan is suppose to get 300 sunny days a year, so figure 22.45 * 300 = 6,735kWh per year or 18.45kWh per day. From what I understand you lose about 20% when it is converted to normal household current, so about 14.76kWh per day or 448.85kWh per month. That's about 40kWh more per month than I average without AC. If you borrowed ฿257,000 amortized over 25 years at 6%, the lifespan of the system your payment would be ฿1,650 per month, that works out to about ฿3.68 per kWh, just slightly less than I am paying now. And that would be for the next 25 years, no rate increase. Instead of building dirty coal plants in Laos, I can't understand why the Thai Government doesn't facilitate long term loans for people to build solar systems, they would not have to subsidize them. I am sure there are pension funds and insurance companies that would Love to have a safe 6% return on their money. If I have made a mistake in my calculation, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Great stuff. I know absolutely nothing but what do you think you will be able to run off this? Lights, Fridges, Water Pumps, TVs, Computers, Aircon, Fans. Or just some of the above? On its own it won't run anything. This is a grid-tie system so it offsets the consumption of whatever you're running the balance being made up using power from the grid. If you're using less than it makes your meter goes backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinBoy2 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Great stuff. I know absolutely nothing but what do you think you will be able to run off this? Lights, Fridges, Water Pumps, TVs, Computers, Aircon, Fans. Or just some of the above? This is an On Grid system, so I'm complementing what I get from the grid. Now the neat thing is that the inverter has a WiFi monitoring system, both local and you can sign up for a remote monitor as well. When I get some data I'll post the real figures of how much I'm generating Edited July 6, 2015 by GinBoy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Inverter & Breaker boxes being wired up. having a little pause outside, 4 more panels to mount, but....hasn't rained for frikkin weeks and it decides to p*ss it down this afternoon I hope they bring a ruler next time to get the conduit holes lined up. Such a little thing and so easy to get right ... I would be rejecting that. Is the inverter IP rated for outdoor installation, if we go with this it will be on the wall next to the car-port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Any chance of a high res photo of the insides of the left box? Curious to see what protection they implemented... Also, where and how did they tap into the mains? before/after/at the consumer unit/main breaker box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinBoy2 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Any chance of a high res photo of the insides of the left box? Curious to see what protection they implemented... Also, where and how did they tap into the mains? before/after/at the consumer unit/main breaker box? Hopefully this is a good enough picture. It tied into the output from the main consumer box breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinBoy2 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Its a 5KW single phase systemthat does not answer my question. i have some figures for Central Europe and would like to compare them with those of Thailand. a pricewise investment comparison is not possible because especially in my home country photovoltaic installations are heavily subsidised. In my area at 16.533 longitude they say I can expect 4.49 hours productive sunlight per day, check out thus site http://www.ecowho.com/tools/solar_power_calculator.php That means I would generate about 22.45kWh per day on a 5kW system. Isaan is suppose to get 300 sunny days a year, so figure 22.45 * 300 = 6,735kWh per year or 18.45kWh per day. From what I understand you lose about 20% when it is converted to normal household current, so about 14.76kWh per day or 448.85kWh per month. That's about 40kWh more per month than I average without AC. If you borrowed ฿257,000 amortized over 25 years at 6%, the lifespan of the system your payment would be ฿1,650 per month, that works out to about ฿3.68 per kWh, just slightly less than I am paying now. And that would be for the next 25 years, no rate increase. Instead of building dirty coal plants in Laos, I can't understand why the Thai Government doesn't facilitate long term loans for people to build solar systems, they would not have to subsidize them. I am sure there are pension funds and insurance companies that would Love to have a safe 6% return on their money. If I have made a mistake in my calculation, please let me know. Now think if you can finance the system yourself. Compare the monthly saving you get versus the paltry interest you would get on the capital if you left it in the bank. It was a no-brainer for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Inverter & Breaker boxes being wired up. having a little pause outside, 4 more panels to mount, but....hasn't rained for frikkin weeks and it decides to p*ss it down this afternoon I hope they bring a ruler next time to get the conduit holes lined up. Such a little thing and so easy to get right ... I would be rejecting that. Is the inverter IP rated for outdoor installation, if we go with this it will be on the wall next to the car-port. Ha ha That bothered me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Looks a decent job. I see they've cornered the market in surge suppressors Sooo, the sun is awake, have you checked what you're generating yet? It's ok, I would have too Do you have any images of the PEA paperwork being submitted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 On efficiency As the output of the panels is proportional to the incident angle of the sun on them (among other things) I would have thought a motorized frame to continuously adust / tilt the panels for the most optimum angle would improve the output significantly. A simple PIC programmed for latitude and with a clock/calender, a stepper motor driver and stepper motor should do it. Stepper motor drives a threaded rod which operates a sissor lift type of arrangement to raise/lower one end of the panel. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinBoy2 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Looks a decent job. I see they've cornered the market in surge suppressors Sooo, the sun is awake, have you checked what you're generating yet? It's ok, I would have too Do you have any images of the PEA paperwork being submitted? Sun is up (kinda) of course after the first rain yesterday, it overcast today, but it's already generating ~800W. Switched on just after 6am at daybreak As for the paperwork, as I mentioned yesterday the installer submits the paperwork directly to PEA in Bangkok, I won't see anything to take to the local office for about a week. One interesting point, the inverter is loaded with a PEA identifier, which you can display. This apparently is part of the submission Edited July 7, 2015 by GinBoy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 That's already 3.3 Baht an hour saving over yesterday The PEA approved inverter is one reason I am tempted to go this turn-key way rather than a DIY bitsa system which would probably be slightly cheaper. No point upsetting the supply authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) On efficiency As the output of the panels is proportional to the incident angle of the sun on them (among other things) I would have thought a motorized frame to continuously adust / tilt the panels for the most optimum angle would improve the output significantly. A simple PIC programmed for latitude and with a clock/calender, a stepper motor driver and stepper motor should do it. Stepper motor drives a threaded rod which operates a sissor lift type of arrangement to raise/lower one end of the panel. Any thoughts? It's increasingly common to just install 20% more PV capacity than what's actually needed. The net result (from an energy harvested perspective) is apparently pretty similar to tilting panels, but there's no moving parts and it's also probably cheaper. Edited July 7, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinBoy2 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Well its only 8am and already the meter is going backwards with 4 AC's running. So far I'm a very happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchintogo Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Just for comparison, I installed a 5Kw system 4 years ago (grid connect) in North East Victoria, Australia. My feed in tariff is 16.7 baht until 2025. The install cost me 405,000 baht. It has paid for itself in 4 years in savings and payments from the power retailers. In Australia install costs are now much lower but unfortunately minimal f.i.t ! Whilst in Thailand I received a cheque for 26000 baht ( the large garden was still being watered) for the last three months. In Thailand I would think you would be generating much more than the ~4 hours a day quoted above, at least here in Isaan. Itchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feesbay John Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Inverter & Breaker boxes being wired up. having a little pause outside, 4 more panels to mount, but....hasn't rained for frikkin weeks and it decides to p*ss it down this afternoon I hope they bring a ruler next time to get the conduit holes lined up. Such a little thing and so easy to get right ... I would be rejecting that. Is the inverter IP rated for outdoor installation, if we go with this it will be on the wall next to the car-port. Yes this Grid Tie is IP65, Here is the spec on this Grid Tie. http://www.positronicsolar.com/uploads/Trannergy_Brochure.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Thanks John. So a simple roof to keep off the worst of the tropical downpour should do the trick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHW Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Hi Have you thought of adding a Storage Cell, instead of sending excess power to the grid you store it for later use, like night, intermittent cloud cover etc, the cell is controlled by a device that sends excess power to the Cell then when the Cell is full the excess power can be sent to the grid. The device can also be regulated to allow, if you want too, for a % of excess power to go to the grid at anytime. The device is the latest Australian designed & produced technology, it is in the process of being released into the Asian market. Basic what it means you are not selling all your excess power to the grid at say 2 THB and buying it back later at say 4 THB. It is also ideal for 24/7 operations, remote communities, group housing etc. Regards BHW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feesbay John Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 IMHO, thanks for posting that I was just about to post the same chart. I'm in a deep red area just south of Khon Kaen. Completely unshaded, direct south facing roof installation, so it's just about as good an install as possible. First panels are about to be mounted, I'll post some pics as soon s it starts I would like to see the spec on these 250w panels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feesbay John Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 If your meter is changed to a digital meter, you will not be able to turn your meter back for night time. Only if you have 2 meters one that you are using electric from and the other digital meter feeding the grid supply from the solar BUT then if you have this you will be on the rooftop program. The paper work can take months to come back from the PEA. If you turn back your rotary meter to less than what was on your last bill reading, they will send you and estimated bill from your last 6 months worth off bills. Until you have all paper work in-place make sure each month you do not go under your last reading or they will charge you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Digital meters do understand power export and run backwards, provided they are programmed to (some even have an 'export' lamp to tell you). No idea which units PEA are installing but it would be a bad idea if they cannot support power export as the outcry from all the miffed Thais will be deafening. Certainly something to check if/when the meter is changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feesbay John Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 what's the estimated total cost and the total m² of the panels? Panel area 30m2 (20 panels @1.5mx1m) Total cost inc mounting kit and installation ฿256K The price will depend on the standard off the panels and Grid Tie. The weight off the panels will give you an idea to the quality as the weight is in the frame and glass used. We use 300w panels a lot there are many kinds BUT to give you an idea one panel weight is 28kg and another is only 22kg. NOW I have had some people say BUT that is good as not as much weight on my roof, Wrong you are fitting solar that needs to last for 25 years or more. Cheap panels can burn out, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanBBK Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Very interesting Topic indeed. Keep us posted of daily production if you could please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feesbay John Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Well just finished the top row of 10 panels, they'll be finishing the bottom row of 10 after lunch. Currently wiring the distribution and inverter boxes. Is it an optical illusion, or is the spacing between the upper pair of mounting rails different from the spacing of the lower pair? No it is not an optical illusion, count the tiles between each. For me the over hang on the top row is not good and should off been moved to be inline with the bottom row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Cheap panels can burn out, Ouch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 IMHO, thanks for posting that I was just about to post the same chart. I'm in a deep red area just south of Khon Kaen. Completely unshaded, direct south facing roof installation, so it's just about as good an install as possible. First panels are about to be mounted, I'll post some pics as soon s it starts I would like to see the spec on these 250w panels. If he has the Amorn package I think he has, his system is using the Schutten STP6-250 panels: http://www.schutten-solar.com/uploads/soft/20140401/1396333648.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Cheap panels can burn out, What's the backstory on this photo though? For all we know, the installer may have wired the system to exceed the max. series voltage of the panels.. or a hot cinder could have landed on them.. or they could be junk panels A photo like this only raises questions, not answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feesbay John Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Cheap panels can burn out, Ouch!! Many people look at price first and with solar you can not do that, We have been called out to 5 or 6 jobs that other company's have done and had to redo the full setup. One case the customer told the solar installer what they wanted instead off the installer telling her it can not work that way, he just did as she said, A 5kw 3 phase grid tie with 6 x 280w panels on one line and 7 x 280w on another line. the voltage was under for the MPPT to start on the 6 line and the 7 line was only 1 volt over. I told her if she had asked us to install it like this I would have walked away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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