Koh Tao Murders: Trial starts tomorrow, July 8th

[Jai Dee]

One overwhelmingly negative comment on the Thai legal system has been removed from this thread.

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[StealthEnergiser]

Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that these two "midgets" committed those murders.

Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that these two strong physical laborers did not commit those murders.

Of the two, only one of them is taller than 5'3", both of are slight build, and as Mooner stated, they worked in bars, so they were not "physical laborers".

David was over 6 foot tall, and very good physical condition.

Knife marks on the back of David's head were consistent with knife use by a LEFT HANDED person. Both these boys are RIGHT HANDED.

Police "found" Hanna's cell phone in the bushes behind the room where the two boys stayed. The SAME cell phone that was turned into police the day AFTER the murders, and actually PHOTOGRAPHED sitting on the cops desk.

Supposedly a garden hoe was used by the attackers, but no fingerprints were found on the hoe that would link these two boys.

DNA tests were taken of all Burmese workers, and the DNA of these two boys PASSED the test the first time around.

The son of the Big Man on the island fled the island early the next morning, returning to university, where a number of students observed in with multiple scratches on his arms and hands. He claimed to be at the school at the time of the incident, but records, and witnesses, clearly showed and stated that he wasn't. In other words, he lied out his <deleted>.

After their arrest, the Big Man on the island gave the police a very handsome "reward" for a "job well done".

Do I need to go on? I'm not stating "opinions" here, but actual facts as reported by various news agencies.

You might have read some of them yourself, but failed to put it all together in your head. Try that sometime. You might be amazed at what you come up with.

I fully agree with everything you say the investigation has more holes in it than swiss cheese , the perfect outcome would be that the real killers are exposed and any persons involved in the cover up put behind bars.

[AleG]

No, you are not stating opinions, or facts for that matter, you are simply parroting an assortment of social media speculation and misinformation.

"Knife marks on the back of David's head were consistent with knife use by a LEFT HANDED person. Both these boys are RIGHT HANDED."

Are you a trained pathologist to make that call? I am not, but I saw the photos and the cut on the side of his head was the result of a glancing blow that scalped the area around the cut, definitely not the work of a knife.

"Police "found" Hanna's cell phone in the bushes behind the room where the two boys stayed. The SAME cell phone that was turned into police the day AFTER the murders, and actually PHOTOGRAPHED sitting on the cops desk."

The phone was not Hanna's at any point, it was always identified as the same brand, model and colour (different from Hanna's) as David Miller's phone, furthermore the two men on trial have already admitted in court of having that phone since the day of the murders, plus two other witnesses confirmed it.

"Supposedly a garden hoe was used by the attackers, but no fingerprints were found on the hoe that would link these two boys."

How do you know there are no fingerprints from them? All the police said at the time was that other people handled the hoe so they couldn't use fingerprints to establish who used it as a weapon.

"DNA tests were taken of all Burmese workers, and the DNA of these two boys PASSED the test the first time around."

The old chestnut... It was false the first time, it was false the second time and it's been false every other time, there is absolutely no report that the two men on trial passed a DNA test before their arrest, none, zilch, nada. This is nothing than inbred speculation from social media armchair detectives.

"The son of the Big Man on the island fled the island early the next morning, returning to university, where a number of students observed in with multiple scratches on his arms and hands. He claimed to be at the school at the time of the incident, but records, and witnesses, clearly showed and stated that he wasn't. In other words, he lied out his <deleted>."

This is all, again, founded on inbred social media speculation. and completely false. There's both CCTV footage and university documents proving he was in Bangkok at the time of the murders.

"After their arrest, the Big Man on the island gave the police a very handsome "reward" for a "job well done"."

More rumor mongering coming out from social media...

"Do I need to go on? I'm not stating "opinions" here, but actual facts as reported by various news agencies."

Well, can you provide a link to any report from news agencies in support for any of your "facts"?

Bravo AleG! A Job well done and truly stated. Nice to know there is at least one other guy here that actually reads the news and not just Hear Say or the Gossip Columns.

I find it so interesting when somebody else here also keeps repeating and bringing this part up over and over again. "DNA tests were taken of all Burmese workers, and the DNA of these two boys PASSED the test the first time around."

The Rape & Murders occurred on September 15th, 2014. Burmese Workers, which I believe included the 2 accused men, were all rounded September 16th, were questioned by the Police, DNA Samples collected, and then all of them released due to lack of evidence. Within the first few days over 200 DNA Sample were collect from various people on the island.

But what I find strange is that foreign DNA found inside Hannah wasn't confirmed until at least September 18th, and at least 2 days after everyone keeps saying the 2 boys passed the DNA Test first time around. They did not even know for sure Hannah was Raped and Sodomized until then. So I for one would sure like to know how the 2 accused passed the DNA Test when they didn't even have Hannah's DNA Sample to match it to yet.

There's no indication whatsoever that the two suspects were rounded up on the 16th, three Burmese men were investigated and cleared then, but no account identifies them as being those on trial now; however it stands to reason that the defense would be shouting from the rooftops about it if it would had happened, they aren't so those three men were certainly not the same men being held now.

As far as I know the two men on trial were summoned to provide DNA samples on the 23rd of September, not the 16th. That was one week before the arrests were announced which in turn was two days or so after a press release from the police stating that there were still about 100 DNA samples left to test.

The people that keep bringing up the "they were tested and cleared" meme are conflating different accounts related to different people.

[Thaidream]

Just an added comment before I let this go- American jails have many people who are innocent sitting in prison cells. Prosecutors can take evidence and use innuendo and circumstantial evidence to convince one sitting on a jury that the accused must be guilty must be guilty. And if the accused is indigent and cannot afford an attorney- they go to jail. Many people have, after 20-30 years in prisons, had their cases reopened and evidence such as DNA rechecked and found they were not the guilty party. Remember, this happens in the so called developed World. Draw your own conclusions.

[StealthEnergiser]

My 3 scenarios:

1. The 2 accused are guilty of the crimes as charged.

2. The person(s) everybody knows who really did it did it.

3. The crimes were committed by fellow travelers who calmly left the island the next morning before exit from the island was blocked.

I think number 2 including a few of his mafia mates and I also think Sean knows a lot more and may have witnessed it and that is what he was so scared for his life in the supermarket.

The frenchman could have been another witness.

I also think certain posters on some forums may have been given the task of protecting wealthy people on the island.

[sambum]

Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that these two "midgets" committed those murders.

Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that these two strong physical laborers did not commit those murders.

Of the two, only one of them is taller than 5'3", both of are slight build, and as Mooner stated, they worked in bars, so they were not "physical laborers".

David was over 6 foot tall, and very good physical condition.

Knife marks on the back of David's head were consistent with knife use by a LEFT HANDED person. Both these boys are RIGHT HANDED.

Police "found" Hanna's cell phone in the bushes behind the room where the two boys stayed. The SAME cell phone that was turned into police the day AFTER the murders, and actually PHOTOGRAPHED sitting on the cops desk.

Supposedly a garden hoe was used by the attackers, but no fingerprints were found on the hoe that would link these two boys.

DNA tests were taken of all Burmese workers, and the DNA of these two boys PASSED the test the first time around.

The son of the Big Man on the island fled the island early the next morning, returning to university, where a number of students observed in with multiple scratches on his arms and hands. He claimed to be at the school at the time of the incident, but records, and witnesses, clearly showed and stated that he wasn't. In other words, he lied out his <deleted>.

After their arrest, the Big Man on the island gave the police a very handsome "reward" for a "job well done".

Do I need to go on? I'm not stating "opinions" here, but actual facts as reported by various news agencies.

You might have read some of them yourself, but failed to put it all together in your head. Try that sometime. You might be amazed at what you come up with.

you are not stating facts, only spreading "hear say"

So, how tall are they?

[AleG]

I do hope they give these boys a fair crack of the whip I don't believe they are guilty I never did the police in my opinion didn't do their homework did they try to find the two supposedly friends of david who disappeared shortly after the murders I don't think so did they do a check on the boys backgrounds I don't think so the police wanted scapegoats and these poor unfortunate boys fitted the bill.

I think you are talking about Chris Ware and Sean McAnna, they didn't disappear, they were interrogated by the police, determined not to be involved in the murders and let go.

As I pointed out before these two "scapegoats" just happened to, among other things, had "found" David Miller's phone on the night of the murders.

They also confessed to the murders, to the police, to their own lawyers and to the HRC, also were near the scene of the crime close to the time of the murders, have shown no alibi to be anywhere else, have given conflicting statements regarding their actions on that night and there's DNA evidence that is going to be presented at the trial pointing at their involvement in the crimes.

So perhaps they fitted the bill because there's a preponderance of evidence that points in that direction.

[sambum]

I just can not see them convicting anyone as the "Scene of Crime" was contaminated before any evidence was collected.

TIT!

[GOLDBUGGY]

Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that these two "midgets" committed those murders.

Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that these two strong physical laborers did not commit those murders.

Of the two, only one of them is taller than 5'3", both of are slight build, and as Mooner stated, they worked in bars, so they were not "physical laborers".

David was over 6 foot tall, and very good physical condition.

Knife marks on the back of David's head were consistent with knife use by a LEFT HANDED person. Both these boys are RIGHT HANDED.

Police "found" Hanna's cell phone in the bushes behind the room where the two boys stayed. The SAME cell phone that was turned into police the day AFTER the murders, and actually PHOTOGRAPHED sitting on the cops desk.

Supposedly a garden hoe was used by the attackers, but no fingerprints were found on the hoe that would link these two boys.

DNA tests were taken of all Burmese workers, and the DNA of these two boys PASSED the test the first time around.

The son of the Big Man on the island fled the island early the next morning, returning to university, where a number of students observed in with multiple scratches on his arms and hands. He claimed to be at the school at the time of the incident, but records, and witnesses, clearly showed and stated that he wasn't. In other words, he lied out his <deleted>.

After their arrest, the Big Man on the island gave the police a very handsome "reward" for a "job well done".

Do I need to go on? I'm not stating "opinions" here, but actual facts as reported by various news agencies.

You might have read some of them yourself, but failed to put it all together in your head. Try that sometime. You might be amazed at what you come up with.

You forgot to add the extra 5 feet one of the accused gains in reach when he is holding onto a 6 foot Garden Hoe.

So now he would now be 10'3" Tall compared to David at 6'0"..

[Travelman868]

Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that these two "midgets" committed those murders.

Koh Samui police and prosecutors, by refusing to co operate with the defense will cause this trial to stop again. The accused are entitled to see the evidence

against them.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The World will be watching when this charade starts ...

Meanwhile the real murderer(s) are enjoying a Cold one in a cool bar on Death Island - Welcome ...

I didn't know they served cold beer in the Thai Prison.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Frankly, the evidence I am interested in seeing is what New Scotland Yard has as a result of their investigation and interrogations. I really don't have any idea what happened- so much speculation . However . there have been many high profile cases in Thailand which have remained unsolved , not adequately investigated or simply never heard of again. Google Sherry Ann Duncan and read about 'justice'. I will withhold judgement on this case. I better stop hear lest I say something I may later regret.

Scotland Yard never caught Jack the Ripper either. Also the Special FBI Task Force set up to catch the Zodiac Killer never found him either. Is it really so strange? There must be hundreds, or even thousands, of unsolved murder cases around the word.

[Thaidream]

During the time of the Ripper- and the Zodiac Killer case- which I remember vividly, neither Scotland Yard nor the FBI had access to the technology and forensics that exist today. Hence, what has New Scotland Yard found?

[Alwyn]

12 witnesses?

[cookee68]

Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that these two "midgets" committed those murders.

And mine the opposite

[VIPinthailand]

I trust Thai police at 100%. I think these 2 guys are the murders... and must be hanged high and short. look at them, they are guilty before being born. any Thai cop know it...we all know it.

seriously, I hope they are freed soon...

[wabothai]

cross examination of witnesses? I did not recall there were any.

[StealthEnergiser]

Burmese men to face trial for murder of British backpackers in Thailand

Defence lawyers say important evidence has recently been provided by UK over death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on Koh Tao

The trial of Burmese migrant workers accused of killing British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on Koh Tao island last September is to start this week. The high-profile case has thrown the spotlight on Thailand’s legal failings and distressed the grieving families.

The criminal trial of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo will begin on Wednesday at a court on the nearby and larger island of Koh Samui and is expected to end on 25 September. A verdict is expected in October.

The legal team representing the 22-year-old bar and restaurant workers is made up of pro-bono lawyers and human rights activists who accuse Thai police of improperly collecting evidence at the crime scene, intimidation and abuse of witnesses and suspects, and not sharing key forensic evidence with the defence, a move they say seriously impedes a fair trial.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/07/burmese-men-trial-murder-thailand-british-backpackers-hannah-witheridge-david-miller?CMP=share_btn_tw

[GOLDBUGGY]

Just an added comment before I let this go- American jails have many people who are innocent sitting in prison cells. Prosecutors can take evidence and use innuendo and circumstantial evidence to convince one sitting on a jury that the accused must be guilty must be guilty. And if the accused is indigent and cannot afford an attorney- they go to jail. Many people have, after 20-30 years in prisons, had their cases reopened and evidence such as DNA rechecked and found they were not the guilty party. Remember, this happens in the so called developed World. Draw your own conclusions.

Yes it has. It has happened in Canada to. But you can't let everyone go just because you might catch an innocent one every once in awhile. The Justice System in America is far from perfect, as you pointed out with the rich having a better chance of getting off, but it is the best we have.

The point you raise is actually a strong point against Capital Punishment (the Death Sentence) and it is a good one. How high of a price can one pay by putting even 1 Innocent Man to his death for a crime he did not commit? Is this not priceless?

But on the questions as to Migrant Workers being treated as second class citizens, which I know you did not raise, and unfairly, unjustly, and taken advantage of, is really that surprising why? Lets not use Burmese Migrant Workers, as I am not too familiar with them, but instead lets use Mexican Migrant Workers.

Almost since the first day when the United States put up a Border with Mexico, illegal Mexican Migrant Workers have been hopping the fence and sneaking into the USA to find jobs. They still do even today. Mostly in low paying under skilled jobs, like picking fruit and vegetables during harvest time, farm hands, and low profile factory work, meat packing, general labors, house servants, gardening, janitorial work, and work such as that.

So are they exploited and taken advantage of in the USA? With no Labor Laws to protect them, you bet they are. They are in most cases paid below the minimum wage and forced to work longer hours and days, without overtime pay. No Sick Pay. No Vacation Pay. No Medical Insurance. No Annual Leave. Fear of Local Police. Paying Protection Money to work their. Is this beginning to sound familiar? Because it should!

Illegal Migrant Workers, like the 2 Accused, are setting themselves up to be taken advantage of. Not for being used as scapegoats, but rather to accept lower wages and longer hours, and unfair treatment from their employer and sometimes the local police. They knew that before they came here. But like in Mexico they still keep come because even sometimes at half wages in the United States, with the risk everyday of being caught and put in prison until they can be sent back home, it is better than what they have back home.

What is the solution to this problem? I don't know! The United States just keeps building a bigger wall, but I don't think the solution is that either.

[GOLDBUGGY]

During the time of the Ripper- and the Zodiac Killer case- which I remember vividly, neither Scotland Yard nor the FBI had access to the technology and forensics that exist today. Hence, what has New Scotland Yard found?

So from this statement you gather that all murders in the world have been solved, except this one.

[whaleboneman]

The heading on this Post it totally wrong, They are "Alleged" to have committed these murders !!

The heading refers to "murders" not "murderers" and therefore is correct. It is a murder trial even though they have the wrong people.

[IslandLover]

Of the two, only one of them is taller than 5'3", both of are slight build, and as Mooner stated, they worked in bars, so they were not "physical laborers".

David was over 6 foot tall, and very good physical condition.

Knife marks on the back of David's head were consistent with knife use by a LEFT HANDED person. Both these boys are RIGHT HANDED.

Police "found" Hanna's cell phone in the bushes behind the room where the two boys stayed. The SAME cell phone that was turned into police the day AFTER the murders, and actually PHOTOGRAPHED sitting on the cops desk.

Supposedly a garden hoe was used by the attackers, but no fingerprints were found on the hoe that would link these two boys.

DNA tests were taken of all Burmese workers, and the DNA of these two boys PASSED the test the first time around.

The son of the Big Man on the island fled the island early the next morning, returning to university, where a number of students observed in with multiple scratches on his arms and hands. He claimed to be at the school at the time of the incident, but records, and witnesses, clearly showed and stated that he wasn't. In other words, he lied out his <deleted>.

After their arrest, the Big Man on the island gave the police a very handsome "reward" for a "job well done".

Do I need to go on? I'm not stating "opinions" here, but actual facts as reported by various news agencies.

You might have read some of them yourself, but failed to put it all together in your head. Try that sometime. You might be amazed at what you come up with.

you are not stating facts, only spreading "hear say"

So, how tall are they?

Wai Phyo is 4' 11" and Zaw Lin is 5' 3" - allegedly

[StealthEnergiser]

Controversial trial of alleged killers of British backpackers to start in Thailand Two Burmese men accused of killing Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on Koh Tao last September go on trial on Wednesday, amid controversy over their treatment by Thai police

The parents of two British backpackers murdered in Thailand last September flew into the island of Koh Samui on Tuesday morning for the trial of the alleged killers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11724506/Controversial-trial-of-alleged-killers-of-British-backpackers-to-start-in-Thailand.html

[StealthEnergiser]

Families arrive for Thailand double murder trial

20:51Tuesday 07 July 2015

0

HAVE YOUR SAY

THE families of two young British backpackers killed on a beach in Thailand last year have arrived in the country as two migrant workers go on trial for their murders.

Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Norfolk, and Leeds University student David Miller, 24, from Jersey, were killed on the island of Koh Tao last September.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/families-arrive-for-thailand-double-murder-trial-1-7346267

[StealthEnergiser]

Tropical Thai island set for Brit murder trialThe high-profile trial of two Myanmar migrants charged with killing two British holidaymakers in Thailand will kick off Wednesday, throwing a spotlight on the grim case that has tarnished the country's reputation as a tourist haven.

Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are accused of murdering 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the southern island of Koh Tao in September.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/tropical-thai-island-set-brit-murder-trial-201140810.html#odRD2Ff

[GOLDBUGGY]

Well, it looks like both Families of the Victims are here in Thailand for the Trial.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/families-arrive-for-thailand-double-murder-trial-1-7346267

[GOLDBUGGY]

Families arrive for Thailand double murder trial

20:51Tuesday 07 July 2015

0

HAVE YOUR SAY

THE families of two young British backpackers killed on a beach in Thailand last year have arrived in the country as two migrant workers go on trial for their murders.

Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Norfolk, and Leeds University student David Miller, 24, from Jersey, were killed on the island of Koh Tao last September.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/families-arrive-for-thailand-double-murder-trial-1-7346267

Sorry. I had the page open so I didn't see you posted this first.

[AleG]

Of the two, only one of them is taller than 5'3", both of are slight build, and as Mooner stated, they worked in bars, so they were not "physical laborers".

David was over 6 foot tall, and very good physical condition.

Knife marks on the back of David's head were consistent with knife use by a LEFT HANDED person. Both these boys are RIGHT HANDED.

Police "found" Hanna's cell phone in the bushes behind the room where the two boys stayed. The SAME cell phone that was turned into police the day AFTER the murders, and actually PHOTOGRAPHED sitting on the cops desk.

Supposedly a garden hoe was used by the attackers, but no fingerprints were found on the hoe that would link these two boys.

DNA tests were taken of all Burmese workers, and the DNA of these two boys PASSED the test the first time around.

The son of the Big Man on the island fled the island early the next morning, returning to university, where a number of students observed in with multiple scratches on his arms and hands. He claimed to be at the school at the time of the incident, but records, and witnesses, clearly showed and stated that he wasn't. In other words, he lied out his <deleted>.

After their arrest, the Big Man on the island gave the police a very handsome "reward" for a "job well done".

Do I need to go on? I'm not stating "opinions" here, but actual facts as reported by various news agencies.

You might have read some of them yourself, but failed to put it all together in your head. Try that sometime. You might be amazed at what you come up with.

you are not stating facts, only spreading "hear say"

So, how tall are they?

Wai Phyo is 4' 11" and Zaw Lin is 5' 3" - allegedly

How long is the straw you are both clutching at?

[StealthEnergiser]

Koh Tao murders: World watches as Burmese migrants go on trialAt 8am Wednesday the two Burmese migrants accused of murdering British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on an idyllic Thai island last year arrived at Koh Samui Court ahead of the beginning of their trial.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo were charged in December last year, less than three months after the bodies of Miller, 24, and Witheridge, 23, were found on Sept. 15 on a beach on Koh Tao. Autopsies showed the British backpackers had suffered severe head wounds and Witheridge had been raped.

Police have said that DNA evidence proves the suspected killers were the two men from Burma (Myanmar), who were working illegally in the country.

Speaking to the media ahead of Wednesday’s proceedings, lead defence lawyer Nakhon Chomphuchat said, “this appeared to be a situation where the accused had been tortured to confess to the crimes they are accused of.”

http://asiancorrespondent.com/133909/koh-tao-murders-world-watches-as-burmese-migrants-go-on-trial/

[webfact]

Families of British backpackers in Thailand for murder trial
Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo charged with murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, as relatives seek end ‘incredibly hurtful’ speculation and rumour

LONDON: -- The families of two British backpackers killed on a beach in Thailand last year have arrived in the country, as two migrant workers go on trial charged with their murders.

Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Norfolk, and David Miller, 24, from Jersey, were killed on the island of Koh Tao last September.

Burmese migrants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo – also known as Win Zaw Htun – are due to stand trial on the nearby island of Koh Samui on charges of murder and rape.

Members of both victims’ families spoke of the pain the deaths had caused.

Miller’s family said: “The act which ended David’s life devastated our family and his friends. Just hours before he died, David was talking to us with his usual enthusiasm, describing the beauty of Koh Tao and the friendliness of the Thai people.

“Over the coming weeks we hope to gain a better understanding as to how such a wonderful young man lost his life in such idyllic surroundings in such a horrible way.

Full story: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/08/hannah-witheridge-david-millers-families-thailand-murder-trial

-- The Guardian 2015-07-08