Moving to Chiang Mai- Hiring Season for International Schools?

[LarryBird]

Op, you seem like you have a bit to learn in the career process, and as usual, folk guitar is way off the mark. 13 hour days as a teacher is preposterous. Sure, during finals long days might come along, but they're usually followed by long breaks.

Op, I have a good friend who was at prem, and he had no complaints. Also, check out some of the posts from the people attacking you, they obviously struggle with the thought process.

[sappersrest]

pm sent to op

[elephantime]

Op, you seem like you have a bit to learn in the career process, and as usual, folk guitar is way off the mark. 13 hour days as a teacher is preposterous. Sure, during finals long days might come along, but they're usually followed by long breaks.

Op, I have a good friend who was at prem, and he had no complaints. Also, check out some of the posts from the people attacking you, they obviously struggle with the thought process.

Thanks Larrybird, I agree! I will check out Prem as a lot of people have suggested it is an excellent school. What do you mean by "you have a bit to learn in the carrear process"? This process is different everywhere, which is why I'm inquiring about Chiang Mai.

[FolkGuitar]

Op, you seem like you have a bit to learn in the career process, and as usual, folk guitar is way off the mark. 13 hour days as a teacher is preposterous.

Just curious, Larry... If you are at school for 8-9 hours a day, assuming that you have 4-5 different classes, how many hours each night do you spend correcting papers? Even if you have only 10 students in each class, that's 50 papers to correct.... Or don't you correct your student's work?

With 4-5 classes the next day, how long do you spend preparing for each one? 20 minutes each? 30 minutes each? Or longer? Or do you use the '5-step method?' (That's the one where you prepare your classes five steps from the classroom door before you enter...)

Do the math. A professional teacher works much longer hours than any office worker, and does it without complaint.

[LarryBird]

During the hours you're not teaching.

[FolkGuitar]

During the hours you're not teaching.

Oh... You mean your 'office hours.' The time that is set aside for students to consult with you about problems or projects they are having with their subjects?

Please don't teach my kids.

[sappersrest]

During the hours you're not teaching.

Oh... You mean your 'office hours.' The time that is set aside for students to consult with you about problems or projects they are having with their subjects?

Please don't teach my kids.

Hi guys

Whilst I agree with your sentiments it is not fair to wind the op up whilst asking a genuine question all will become apparent when she gets her final interview if she decides to come Chiang Mai in the first place.We were all young once and times and expectations on our education system have changed. It is so much better now than we were young, teaching methods have changed and so have the expectations of teachers ,pupils and parents.

So for all you old farts who say it was not like it in my day get real. I talk from experience being 61 years old

[naboo]

Just curious, Larry... If you are at school for 8-9 hours a day, assuming that you have 4-5 different classes, how many hours each night do you spend correcting papers? Even if you have only 10 students in each class, that's 50 papers to correct.... Or don't you correct your student's work?

With 4-5 classes the next day, how long do you spend preparing for each one? 20 minutes each? 30 minutes each? Or longer? Or do you use the '5-step method?' (That's the one where you prepare your classes five steps from the classroom door before you enter...)

Do the math. A professional teacher works much longer hours than any office worker, and does it without complaint.

As someone who seems to know so much about teaching, surely you would know that immediate feedback is considerably more effective than next day. Self assessment, peer assessment and circulating the class giving feedback and support not only makes the job more manageable but is also considerably more beneficial to the students. Students learn most from their peers, some from their teacher and virtually nothing from teacher corrected work. A weekly check by the teacher to see the system is working, planned opportunity for feedback on learning that the teacher can feed back into planning and short but direct assessment to monitor individual learning is far more important than your nightly correcting sessions.

A 20hr weekly teaching load should equate to approximately 40hrs work per week. In the UK, teachers teach 27-30hrs per week, hence the long hours.

From your posts, it appears you no longer teach. I hope you enjoy your retirement and don't feel the need to work again.

OP, there are three regulars on the Chiang Mai forum you should not allow to upset you. One has a son in the Thai police, one likes to post long winded posts giving detailed solutions to Chiang Mai infrastructure problems, seems a bit lonely, and the other you've already met. If you can put up with them, enjoy the forum.

[LarryBird]

During the hours you're not teaching.

Oh... You mean your 'office hours.' The time that is set aside for students to consult with you about problems or projects they are having with their subjects?

Please don't teach my kids.

Oh, ok, folkie. Was one of your lessons that fines don't deter negative behaviors? You must have never assigned a detention or adressed a discipline problem with anything but a hug and a folk song to discourage said behavior.

Question:do all teachers spend on a average the exact same in and out of the classroom? (Phys ed, English, Math, 1st grade, 2nd grade, languages, etc) would like you to answer this one, although you seem to avoid questions which disprove your points.

Folkguitar, with your continued flawed logic, it is really disappointing to see you must have passed that on in some way shape or form to some students. Like me or not, my educational achievements are documented, couldn't be feigned, and demonstrate a certain aptitude for academics. I can certainly appreciate the fact that none of my teachers ever would have uttered the nonsense that you have on a daily basis, and one can only think that I avoided the unfortunate consequence of being fed inaccuracies and fallacies on an impressionable mind by someone like yourself. If you're American it is unsurprising , our education system was filled with the unqualified and incompetents for many years. If you're from elsewhere, those who are always american bashing have some explaining to do.

[Saan]

A simpler, more fulfilling quality of life while you "learn the Natives ow speek proppa Englitch" Eh ?

I'm not trying to be "smart" but please ensure you have a job confirmed before you fly in. If you have never been here and expect to find a "simpler life," you may be in for a rather rude shock!

Best of luck!

Thanks, I understand. But hey, we have to take some chances no?? I am looking for a place with nicer weather, nicer people, more things to do and where I can get more for the money I earn as a teacher. I can always fly back home and land the same old job, or go somewhere new...I just think Chiang Mai would be a good place to start the adventure of finding a nicer place to live.

You are right. Chiang Mai is a nice place to live even for us curmudgeonly old men. I imagine it would be even more fun for lively, young people. Don't worry to much about the adverse comments as us oldies sometimes need to let you youngsters know that we were young once and good at what we did. With the resilience of youth you will survive in Chiang Mai easily, we do. Come on over.

[FolkGuitar]

Just curious, Larry... If you are at school for 8-9 hours a day, assuming that you have 4-5 different classes, how many hours each night do you spend correcting papers? Even if you have only 10 students in each class, that's 50 papers to correct.... Or don't you correct your student's work?

With 4-5 classes the next day, how long do you spend preparing for each one? 20 minutes each? 30 minutes each? Or longer? Or do you use the '5-step method?' (That's the one where you prepare your classes five steps from the classroom door before you enter...)

Do the math. A professional teacher works much longer hours than any office worker, and does it without complaint.

1. As someone who seems to know so much about teaching, surely you would know that immediate feedback is considerably more effective than next day. Self assessment, peer assessment and circulating the class giving feedback and support not only makes the job more manageable but is also considerably more beneficial to the students. Students learn most from their peers, some from their teacher and virtually nothing from teacher corrected work.

2. A weekly check by the teacher to see the system is working, planned opportunity for feedback on learning that the teacher can feed back into planning and short but direct assessment to monitor individual learning is far more important than your nightly correcting sessions.

3. A 20hr weekly teaching load should equate to approximately 40hrs work per week. In the UK, teachers teach 27-30hrs per week, hence the long hours.

4. From your posts, it appears you no longer teach. I hope you enjoy your retirement and don't feel the need to work again.

1. There is no question about the fact that immediate feedback is more effective than the next day. Why even bring that up? It was never mentioned in this debate. But your idea that corrected work means 'virtually nothing from teacher' is patently absurd. It's the most effective method a good teacher can use to evaluate, on a daily basis, the student's needs. In a class of 10 or more students, a teacher simply doesn't have the time IN CLASS to give individual instruction to each and every student, nor receive feedback on what areas a student requires additional instruction. If a teacher is NOT interested in giving individual attention, they have no place in the classroom.

2. Yes, it is. That doesn't negate the value of the teacher helping the student understand where mistakes are made in the daily assignment. Again, why bring up something that wasn't discussed and insert it as if it is important to the debate? Do you not understand what a debate entails? Perhaps your teachers failed you in that respect.

3. Once again, so what? You are making a habit of throwing in extraneous information and hoping that it somehow satisfies the issues. It doesn't.

4. Thank you, I am. I spent 35 years as an educator; in high school, public college, and private university. I also served in administration as Director of Academic Programs. I hold teachers to a VERY rigid standard of professionalism, with the last word being the imperative... "Professionalism." Teaching is a career, not a job. It's a field that requires constantly learning new methods for the transfer of information. It's a field that requires the ability to 'educate,' in all of its Latin root meanings. I wouldn't want my children taught by someone who is simply using the position as a temporary method of seeing the world, nor would I want your children's future to be put into the hands of someone who is looking for a temporary job with a light work load and long vacations. I doubt you would either.

The mid-'60's saw a massive increase in the numbers of male teachers entering the American academic system. They did so, not because they felt any sort of 'calling' to become teachers, but because it was a way to avoid the draft and avoid Vietnam. These last 10 years have seen an increase of young people becoming 'temporary' teachers as a way to explore the world and not have to work very hard. Both situations were disastrous for the education of our future generations, yet you seem willing to exacerbate that problem. That's unfortunate.

[Dante99]

Op, you seem like you have a bit to learn in the career process, and as usual, folk guitar is way off the mark. 13 hour days as a teacher is preposterous. Sure, during finals long days might come along, but they're usually followed by long breaks.

Op, I have a good friend who was at prem, and he had no complaints. Also, check out some of the posts from the people attacking you, they obviously struggle with the thought process.

Thanks Larrybird, I agree! I will check out Prem as a lot of people have suggested it is an excellent school. What do you mean by "you have a bit to learn in the carrear process"? This process is different everywhere, which is why I'm inquiring about Chiang Mai.

You might carefully check out Prem's pass rates on the IB Diploma, if they will release the information.

[Jai Dee]

A couple of posts containing flames and petty bickering have been removed from this thread.

Please discuss the topic, not each other.

[MaeJoMTB]

Op, you seem like you have a bit to learn in the career process, and as usual, folk guitar is way off the mark. 13 hour days as a teacher is preposterous.

Just curious, Larry... If you are at school for 8-9 hours a day, assuming that you have 4-5 different classes, how many hours each night do you spend correcting papers? Even if you have only 10 students in each class, that's 50 papers to correct.... Or don't you correct your student's work?

With 4-5 classes the next day, how long do you spend preparing for each one? 20 minutes each? 30 minutes each? Or longer? Or do you use the '5-step method?' (That's the one where you prepare your classes five steps from the classroom door before you enter...)

Do the math. A professional teacher works much longer hours than any office worker, and does it without complaint.

Off topic now,

I was a schoolteacher in the UK for many years. Mainly high school math.

I arrived shortly before registration, for morning staff meeting, I left at the end of the school day (8:45 am to 3:30pm). Lesson plans were handed to me by my HOD.

Outside school hours I did nothing, ZERO, zilch. All marking done in class and in free periods, Reports written at lunch or break.

Same as in industry, those who need to work the longest hours are usually the most inefficient or least competent.

Back on topic,

As I suggested earlier, foreign teachers are generally employed for their looks, youth and cheapness.

Not for any imagined teaching skills they may have.

If you have firm ideas of how to teach, you probably aren't suited to schools in Thailand, they won't want you.

They want someone who looks good standing at the school gate, and does whatever their Thai employers request, no matter how stupid or pointless.

@Folkguitar

You would probably last less than a week as an employee in a Thai school.

Too opinionated and inflexible. You wouldn't be saying 'yes sir' often enough to last.

[FolkGuitar]

Op, you seem like you have a bit to learn in the career process, and as usual, folk guitar is way off the mark. 13 hour days as a teacher is preposterous.

Just curious, Larry... If you are at school for 8-9 hours a day, assuming that you have 4-5 different classes, how many hours each night do you spend correcting papers? Even if you have only 10 students in each class, that's 50 papers to correct.... Or don't you correct your student's work?

With 4-5 classes the next day, how long do you spend preparing for each one? 20 minutes each? 30 minutes each? Or longer? Or do you use the '5-step method?' (That's the one where you prepare your classes five steps from the classroom door before you enter...)

Do the math. A professional teacher works much longer hours than any office worker, and does it without complaint.

They want someone who looks good standing at the school gate, and does whatever their Thai employers request, no matter how stupid or pointless.

@Folkguitar

You would probably last less than a week as an employee in a Thai school.

Too opinionated and inflexible. You wouldn't be saying 'yes sir' often enough to last.

A week? Not even that long. Less than an hour, that is, if I actually entered the building at all!

To me, education is too important. The future of the children is too important. I wouldn't teach in a school that doesn't respect that. I do, however, realize that standards are lower in many places, and that often people are hired simply for their bodies. Selling one's body is an old established business.

[naboo]

Off topic now,

I was a schoolteacher in the UK for many years. Mainly high school math.

I arrived shortly before registration, for morning staff meeting, I left at the end of the school day (8:45 am to 3:30pm). Lesson plans were handed to me by my HOD.

There is no subject in the UK called "math". Therefore, I"m calling BS on your whole post.

[junglechef]

I, as a parent of children attending private schools here have been asked to volunteer to be a substitute teacher.

No idea idea of the legalities involved.

Perhaps they meant the Thai parents or was just a not well thought out money saving scheme as with a 1000 students I would expect they could afford a full-time sub if they wanted.

[FolkGuitar]

I, as a parent of children attending private schools here have been asked to volunteer to be a substitute teacher.

No idea idea of the legalities involved.

Perhaps they meant the Thai parents or was just a not well thought out money saving scheme as with a 1000 students I would expect they could afford a full-time sub if they wanted.

A 'good' school with 1,000 students is going to have 30-40 teachers. Yes, you would think that a school like this would have a full-time 'trained' substitute teacher available. This would be one of the questions I'd ask when investigating schools for my kids. I'd want to know what this substitute teacher will 'do' when called in to the classroom.

In 'better' schools, a teacher is required to have lesson plans written out for the entire week. Every lesson plan should have a clearly defined learning goal. It needs to have a list the resources needed for a lesson, the expectations for results, then the anticipatory set that engages the students in the learning that is about to happen. A summery of the direct instruction, followed by guided instruction, and finally assessment. This needs to be done for each class, each day, and handed in to the Academic Programs office one week in advance... in better schools.

When a substitute teacher is called in, the Programs office is able to give the sub the day's lesson plan, so continuity of education continues. Unfortunately, all to often (and I remember many of these days from my own school days,) a substitute 'teacher' stands at the front of the room and tells the students to "quietly read a book..." simply because the sub isn't a teacher at all. At expensive private schools, when something like this happens, the parents are a spending a LOT OF MONEY to pay a babysitter.

It's always wise, when choosing a school for our kids, to ask to see previous year's lesson plans. It's one of the ways you can quickly find out the quality of education being offered.

[Mapguy]

Op, you seem like you have a bit to learn in the career process, and as usual, folk guitar is way off the mark. 13 hour days as a teacher is preposterous. Sure, during finals long days might come along, but they're usually followed by long breaks.

Op, I have a good friend who was at prem, and he had no complaints. Also, check out some of the posts from the people attacking you, they obviously struggle with the thought process.

Not so preposterous as you might think, LarryBird.

With many years of experience as a teacher, an administrator, and a board member, frankly, I knew some teachers thought they could get away with 8 - 9 hours a day, but their hours didn't reflect my hours or those of people I hired. In the morning I got in and out of the kitchen in about 10 minutes. In the evening I cooked dinner and ate in less than an hour after speed-shopping for groceries some days. Before and after school there was almost always prep work, and I was available --- and I expected my teachers to be available --- to students in this modern age by email or the like. Now there are jazzier tech communications. The same for parents. It isn't like the phone never stopped ringing, so to speak, but it did ring and there would be questions to respond to while doing preps, grading papers, doing professional association activities, or whatever. On some nights I would call parents about kids, trying to praise as well as caution. On an average weekend, I'd spend at least one day --- say, 8 hours --- working on some project or other or, when finals and grades or lengthy essay review were in the cards, the work would creep into the the second weekend day. During a teaching day you are in the saddle all day. I was a specialist at the 20-minute lunch. You do get pretty efficient at all this after a while. Anyway, I sure as hell didn't hang out in chat rooms or forums like this one!

It is true that there are some nice longish breaks, and they are welcome, but often not so recreational as you might suppose. You can't continue using lesson plans from the 1890s, and new technology has to be learned or other skills improved. For me and plenty of others there were summer school sessions, workshops to teach, or teaching workshops. There were some educational association activities. There were additional courses to take for advanced degrees (and that did cut into teaching time sometimes during the teaching year.

And I actually did have a life. TGIF, definitely! And a Saturday night out, for sure, when it was on. But all in all it was work hard and sometimes party hard but a quiet night in or out with friends. I fit in the cooking and housekeeping. Every once in a while, usually for a day or two after a term, I'd crash. Those were great days.

So, LarryBird, while it is true some teachers and admnistrators are slouches, there are a hellova lot who are professional at what they do, and that definitely fills their day.

There are always many teachers who don't impress. No doubt about it. Firing someone who didn't make the grade was arduous. I am not a union buster, but it was hard to get rid of the dross. And you didn't want them in the classroom.

So, no, LB, not so preposterous as you think!